Failure And Aborting Punishment Needs To Be Changed Into Less Hostile

[Eisvogel]

You should try to make your points brief and solid Pave.... going around the bush and storming walls of useless text will accomplish nothing and just make your points even less worth considering.

 

Also, i think everything has been said already.

No reason to reward failing... the game is really easy already, no challenge at all and risk free.

 

I don't know why you bring rushing or not to the matter, but most maps can be rushed in 2 minutes or so.... 5 mins tops. And i usually like to loot, even doing so.... that longest i'll be on a map will be around 10 mins.... (this of course excludes timed events like mobile def and endless def missions).

 

Also, why would you re-encourage the mission aborting again? or the fast resource exploits with quitting?

 

Hell, they should start punishing people for failing and even more for aborting

[Tsukinoki]

@Eisvogel

For a while you didn't keep anything on failure, not even the XP you earned in the mission, now you at least keep the affinity that you earned.

They have the 'punishment' just right in ED IMO, you lose whatever progress in mods and anything you made since the last checkpoint. Thats only fair with how enemies scale that you get to keep everything up to the last checkpoint. As for punishing failure/quitting in a standard mission I could see aborting getting you no xp at all while a failure gets you just your xp like it does now.

That would be fair to the casual players, and the abort people would gain litterally nothing and only waste their own time by aborting a mission before its finished.

I know that that would also affect people who encounter glitches, but its not like you encounter a mission breaking glitch every other mission.

And like you I usually loot and do some exploring, and still never take much more than 10 minutes, and no where near the 1.5 hours that Pave mentioned, to clear a mission. The only exception is high level assassination alerts, ED and MD. The only time I rush is when Im doing a nightmare mission such as Vampire, or Timer and I want to see what's the lowest kills I can do and still complete the mission successfully.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[Eisvogel]

@Eisvogel

For a while you didn't keep anything on failure, not even the XP you earned in the mission, now you at least keep the affinity that you earned.

They have the 'punishment' just right in ED IMO, you lose whatever progress in mods and anything you made since the last checkpoint. Thats only fair with how enemies scale that you get to keep everything up to the last checkpoint. As for punishing failure/quitting in a standard mission I could see aborting getting you no xp at all while a failure gets you just your xp like it does now.

That would be fair to the casual players, and the abort people would gain litterally nothing and only waste their own time by aborting a mission before its finished.

I know that that would also affect people who encounter glitches, but its not like you encounter a mission breaking glitch every other mission.

And like you I usually loot and do some exploring, and still never take much more than 10 minutes, and no where near the 1.5 hours that Pave mentioned, to clear a mission. The only exception is high level assassination alerts, ED and MD. The only time I rush is when Im doing a nightmare mission such as Vampire, or Timer and I want to see what's the lowest kills I can do and still complete the mission successfully.

 

Oh i thought you would understand what i meant from my previous statements.... maybe i should have made it crystal clear instead of relaying on previous posts.

 

As punishment, i meant an actual punishing..... not just "not keeping anything from a mission you didn't complete".... i mean, that would be obvious and logical, how would you keep anything from something you failed and never finished?

 

I meant that hell, they should also actually punish you for failing, and even more so for quitting. It would also be cool that they would dis-encourage aborting. For instance, if you abort missions often... on top of the static penalty, you'd be penalized with reduced % reward gain (xp, credit and resources).... incremental the more you abort.

[Tsukinoki]

@Eisvogel

I could definitely see a % reduce in drops for X hours if you abort a few times, and it just stacks the more you abort till you aren't getting anything. That would heavily reduce on the number of aborts that still occur in this game, which thankfully is nothing like it was before.

I was bringing up that in missions like ED they dont need to really do anything with the punishment for failing it. After all its generally a mission you play to see how far you can get before the pod dies so I dont see a point in punishing failure there. The only punishment should be aborting the mission at one of the non-checkpoint waves.

For honestly just dieing and failing a standard mission, not aborting just failing, that would have to be something that would have to be carefully looked at to figure out how to punish it without going overboard and making things annoying and not fun for the casual player.

[Eisvogel]

@Eisvogel

I could definitely see a % reduce in drops for X hours if you abort a few times, and it just stacks the more you abort till you aren't getting anything. That would heavily reduce on the number of aborts that still occur in this game, which thankfully is nothing like it was before.

I was bringing up that in missions like ED they dont need to really do anything with the punishment for failing it. After all its generally a mission you play to see how far you can get before the pod dies so I dont see a point in punishing failure there. The only punishment should be aborting the mission at one of the non-checkpoint waves.

For honestly just dieing and failing a standard mission, not aborting just failing, that would have to be something that would have to be carefully looked at to figure out how to punish it without going overboard and making things annoying and not fun for the casual player.

 

I agree. For standard missions a mere symbolic punishment (like only a negligible negative xp) would be enough for just failing, since it would be just a symbolic reason to encourage completing the mission along with keeping the mods and such.

 

For ED, i could definitely see it going back to what it was (removing the checkpoints, and make it high risk/high reward) before they added the 5 wave saving. The main problem with this, is that the rewards in ED don't scale..... and there is already no reason to stay in ED (it's just better to do quick wave 10s / 15s rapid wipe outs, than doing long EDs till higher waves). So it could be needlessly harsh without an improvement on that matter. But as it is now, EDs are risk free..... you only lose that last bracket pickups... which in overall, is a negligible loss... and you keep everything else.... that's almost risk free to me.

[direcyphre]

I love how it works currently. No rewards for failing or aborting, and that's the way it should be. This thread is the first I've seen pop up ever since people originally complained about it, back when aborting was more common due to in-game bugs making you unable to complete it.

 

And that's why there is no punishment, because there are still legitimate reasons to abort a mission, especially when it comes to new tilesets and all their wacky machinations. Stuff happens, and there isn't much you can do about it if a host migration fails or you're stuck by a locked door. However, the game is improving every week so those instances have been reduced considerably.

[Tsukinoki]

@Eisvogel
Currently ED would be too high of risk, no where near enough reward.  So going back to not keeping anything would be overall detrimental IMO.

@direcyphre
They should be a limit.  Such as aborting 3 missions in a row, or within a short timespan, could be indictive that you are abort abusing and not aborting due to a glitched out door or something.

[Eisvogel]

@Eisvogel

Currently ED would be too high of risk, no where near enough reward.  So going back to not keeping anything would be overall detrimental IMO.

 

 

Agreed, that's why i said that until rewards scale with waves.... it would be too harsh to do that..... there's already no reason to do long waves instead of multiple lower wave runs

[Tsukinoki]

@Eisvogel
I would love to see the scaling work better in those missions, especially the nightmare versions of them.

[Pave]

If i could change the word "removed" into "changed" on the title if this thread, I would.

 

 

Already this / these change suggestions mentioned within few posts are far more less hostile sounding than the system we currently have (not to mention similiar soltuions have been used on some other games).

It would be nice to hear more suggestions or simply refine the system suggested above, if not even implement it as soon as possible.

 

 

((Huh, funny I got an sudden reminder of The Club...oh well)).

Edited August 2, 2013 by Pave

[KvotheTheArcane1]

If i could change the word "removed" into "changed" on the title if this thread, I would.

 

 

Already this / these change suggestions mentioned within few posts are far more less hostile sounding than the system we currently have (not to mention similiar soltuions have been used on some other games).

It would be nice to hear more suggestions or simply refine the system suggested above, if not even implement it as soon as possible.

No. Don't finish the mission, don't get the rewards, that's how it should work. You don't get rewarded for doing a job halfway then stopping do you?

[Eisvogel]

No. Don't finish the mission, don't get the rewards, that's how it should work. You don't get rewarded for doing a job halfway then stopping do you?

 

Indeed

 

If anything, as previously suggested, they should add severe punishment for aborting and such, incrementing the more often it happens.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Eisvogel

[DSMK2]

I'm dead set on no rewards for quitting or failing. You have lost or forfeited the mission. Period.

 

When it comes to getting stuck in a level geometry, I think DE should give us an unstuck command that activates after we haven't touched controls for a set amount of time. And host migration needs a lot of improvement.

 

Give us less reasons to quit a mission!

 

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The one thing I could see working to alleviate failure punishment is an in-mission mailing system, where players can 'mail' some of their gains so that they're not lost on death or mission failure. I've seen this feature in games that involve losing loot/credit/XP gained when the player dies.

 

In Warframe's case, there could be 'mailing points' scattered around the level; it could foster exploration when players want to save some of their loot they've found. It should only work when players legitimately fail a mission, quitting forfeits everything; once again, DE needs to remove reasons to quit.

 

- Global limited amount of mods and blueprints can be 'mailed' for each player

- All materials and credits can be 'mailed'

 

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If i could change the word "removed" into "changed" on the title if this thread, I would.

 

Use the full editor to edit thread titles.

Edited August 2, 2013 by DSMK2

[Pave]

*essentially a check point-system*

Another excellent suggestion.

 

And indeed, making less reasons or needs to abort the missions is something that needs to be looked into and worked ASAP as a priority.

 

The suggestion for "breather-points" for players who like exploration is marvelous. Storage rooms-map-pieces would be probably most suitable for these, but each of the point within the whole map could only be used once (point-A once, point-B once, and so on).

Edited August 2, 2013 by Pave