A bad first impression: Warframe's main issues

[ACULonSeer]

2 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

...no, if they didn't force you to buy slots 5 prime junk would quickly go from 10-12 plat to 50-60 plat to 100+ plat.

 

It happens in EVERY SINGLE GAME with insufficient currency sinks, for Warframe that is Slots, Potato's, Forma, Exilus, and there are STILL people sitting around with 50k plat off trading alone because they own every thing they care about but still trade.

 

Warframe does not need to lessen the importance of interacting with other players.

That's some hefty inflation for making people pay 45 less platinun

[Ethorin]

2 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

That's some hefty inflation for making people pay 45 less platinun

actually, assuming you use the free starting currency on slots(like any experienced F2Per will do.) it's ten less plat. Assuming you stop at "five free slots", assuming you stop.

 

Frankly, I just don't get your complaints, anyone who looks at the trade chat can see that they can pretty much always turn any relic in their inventory into 2.5 plat at minimum, with a bit of research you can easily find things even in Lith Relics that will go for 10-25 plat a piece while NOT being hard to find. Essentially, every ten relics is a warframe slot, every five is two weapon slots. And that is before ever getting into Syndicates/Corrupted Mods/Nightmare Mods/Set Mods/Riven Mods/Ayatan. Or Lens' from bounties, or FISH.

[ACULonSeer]

4 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

actually, assuming you use the free starting currency on slots(like any experienced F2Per will do.) it's ten less plat. Assuming you stop at "five free slots", assuming you stop.

 

Frankly, I just don't get your complaints, anyone who looks at the trade chat can see that they can pretty much always turn any relic in their inventory into 2.5 plat at minimum, with a bit of research you can easily find things even in Lith Relics that will go for 10-25 plat a piece while NOT being hard to find. Essentially, every ten relics is a warframe slot, every five is two weapon slots. And that is before ever getting into Syndicates/Corrupted Mods/Nightmare Mods/Set Mods/Riven Mods/Ayatan. Or Lens' from bounties, or FISH.

The assumption that people will draw these conclusions is where I believe your argument is a little flawed. I caution people to assume nothing in warframe and to ask for help constantly because the game teaches you virtually nothing. At the absolute least the game could say SOMETHING about getting platinum, or ya know, every other aspect of the game.

[Ethorin]

1 minute ago, ACULonSeer said:

The assumption that people will draw these conclusions is where I believe your argument is a little flawed. I caution people to assume nothing in warframe and to ask for help constantly because the game teaches you virtually nothing. At the absolute least the game could say SOMETHING about getting platinum, or ya know, every other aspect of the game.

How old are you? No Seriously, How Old Are You? Because my first response to getting stuck on ANYTHING these days is to google it/wiki it. And that's not just in games, I have asked forumites on Spacebattles for help with interpreting confusing things my Professors say/do. I look things up reflexively and so do all my siblings. Even my Mom asks people. The only way for Warframe to be confusing is if you don't do ANY of that.

[ACULonSeer]

1 minute ago, Ethorin said:

How old are you? No Seriously, How Old Are You? Because my first response to getting stuck on ANYTHING these days is to google it/wiki it. And that's not just in games, I have asked forumites on Spacebattles for help with interpreting confusing things my Professors say/do. I look things up reflexively and so do all my siblings. Even my Mom asks people. The only way for Warframe to be confusing is if you don't do ANY of that.

Some people call forcing the wiki an example of bad game design. I shouldn't have to go to a wiki to find where they hid the space bar on my new keyboard. That's Warframe's learning experience. 

Anyways, it seems neither of us are gaining any ground here. I suggest we stop.

[Ethorin]

I agree.

[ACULonSeer]

1 minute ago, Ethorin said:

I agree.

I'm glad you had some good counterpoints to my argument. I might have to consider an alternate solution to warframe slots. My point with all of this is that it makes a bad first impression, hence the title. There has to be a way to make it look less like mobile-transactions.

[Gandergear]

1 hour ago, Ethorin said:

...no, if they didn't force you to buy slots 5 prime junk would quickly go from 10-12 plat to 50-60 plat to 100+ plat.

 

It happens in EVERY SINGLE GAME with insufficient currency sinks, for Warframe that is Slots, Potato's, Forma, Exilus, and there are STILL people sitting around with 50k plat off trading alone because they own every thing they care about but still trade.

 

Warframe does not need to lessen the importance of interacting with other players.

I'm not convinced that increasing slots from 2-5 will cause anything like that, since tatos are also a powerful sink, so that's a bit hyperbolic in my opinion.

You also could have mentioned my previous favorite F2P game, Mechwarrior Online. https://mwomercs.com/ I believe the starting slots for mechs you get is like, 5? Except in MWO there is NO way to trade the premium currency, and the only way to get it is through some achievments and events. but a new mech slot costs about ~$2 each (price based on smallest denomiation of premium you can buy). In comparison, warframe slots cost about ~$1 each (price based on smallest denomination of premium you can buy). However MWO floats more with the fans of the previous titles than with new blood, being based on a tried and true IP, where WF is a new IP.

A good example of inflationocolypses would be WOW and Runescape, though neither use a premium currency, the lack of efficient gold sinks with the addition of more efficient trading practices (notable example would be warframe.market) would lead to a devaluing of currency.

1 hour ago, ACULonSeer said:

I think 5 slots at base is the perfect amount for people to decide if they wanna pay.

2 warframe slots is enough to find a frame you prefer. If you build Rhino and don't like him, you can sell him when you want to try Frost, or you could sell your starter frame. The MK-1 weapons are basically designed to be thrown away once you upgrade, and i think you have a total of 6 weapon slots to start with? To make my point even more clear, if a player starts with 5 warframe slots, they will be able to have their Starter, Rhino, Frost, Mag and Trinity before having to buy a slot or make any plat. With this expanded arsenal of frames, they can accomplish well... nothing they couldn't with only two frames. There's nothing preventing you from selling a frame nor does losing a frame prevent you from being able to experience missions. Maybe your point is that with 3 extra frames a player is more likely to get hooked into wanting to keep them all, but any player with that mindset will either A: Realize they can build it again later or B: Will have bought plat once they have 2 frames.

1 hour ago, ACULonSeer said:

Uh, my wallet would like to have a word with you.

Both me and @Ethorin have spent $0 on the game, yet both of us are successful in the games economy (I assume he is anyways). Giving away too many freebies at the beginning of the game severely devalues late game experience, since it delays when players MUST learn about trade and clans. It's been the communities job to teach players how to interact with other people, DE cannot possibly make tutorials that explain it since they don't have control over the community.

I believe that the slot limit does NOT drive a significant number of people off, and those who do aren't the type that'll stay once they reach 5 frames either.

[ACULonSeer]

5 hours ago, Gandergear said:

I'm not convinced that increasing slots from 2-5 will cause anything like that, since tatos are also a powerful sink, so that's a bit hyperbolic in my opinion.

You also could have mentioned my previous favorite F2P game, Mechwarrior Online. https://mwomercs.com/ I believe the starting slots for mechs you get is like, 5? Except in MWO there is NO way to trade the premium currency, and the only way to get it is through some achievments and events. but a new mech slot costs about ~$2 each (price based on smallest denomiation of premium you can buy). In comparison, warframe slots cost about ~$1 each (price based on smallest denomination of premium you can buy). However MWO floats more with the fans of the previous titles than with new blood, being based on a tried and true IP, where WF is a new IP.

A good example of inflationocolypses would be WOW and Runescape, though neither use a premium currency, the lack of efficient gold sinks with the addition of more efficient trading practices (notable example would be warframe.market) would lead to a devaluing of currency.

2 warframe slots is enough to find a frame you prefer. If you build Rhino and don't like him, you can sell him when you want to try Frost, or you could sell your starter frame. The MK-1 weapons are basically designed to be thrown away once you upgrade, and i think you have a total of 6 weapon slots to start with? To make my point even more clear, if a player starts with 5 warframe slots, they will be able to have their Starter, Rhino, Frost, Mag and Trinity before having to buy a slot or make any plat. With this expanded arsenal of frames, they can accomplish well... nothing they couldn't with only two frames. There's nothing preventing you from selling a frame nor does losing a frame prevent you from being able to experience missions. Maybe your point is that with 3 extra frames a player is more likely to get hooked into wanting to keep them all, but any player with that mindset will either A: Realize they can build it again later or B: Will have bought plat once they have 2 frames.

Both me and @Ethorin have spent $0 on the game, yet both of us are successful in the games economy (I assume he is anyways). Giving away too many freebies at the beginning of the game severely devalues late game experience, since it delays when players MUST learn about trade and clans. It's been the communities job to teach players how to interact with other people, DE cannot possibly make tutorials that explain it since they don't have control over the community.

I believe that the slot limit does NOT drive a significant number of people off, and those who do aren't the type that'll stay once they reach 5 frames either.

I guess my slots argument is largely based around the idea that the game is meant to be played with a large collection of frames. It just made sense to me that way. 

[KheaZim]

Do not feed the troll. I am new and I have no probs with slots

1. You get through quests weaps/blueprints - these will offer you slots ;) (and I dont play long so far)
2. There is a code FREESWORD - provides you another slot
3. After I maxed my starter weaps MK-Paris and MK-Kunai and got/crafted other weaps , I sold them...+ 2 slots
4. You have a minimum of 3 WF-slots (or even 4?)
5. You have 4 archwing and archwing-weapon slots on default
6. Cmon, for only 4.50 € you get 75 platinum = that provides + 2 WF- slots and + 4 weapon-slots (are really that poor?! You said u like the game....you dont spent money when u go outside???)
7. after all you can grind for relics and sell prime itemes like it was mentioned before

Your impression is bad? Thats ok, dude - it is your opinion. But to call this as a main issue is just trolling stuff, sry.

[Fallen_Echo]

I read throught this and i realized that i learnes that you can bulletjump vertically from a video too.

It took a goddamm long time after the mr8 test to learn that you can use roll after a bullet jump too.

[Ethorin]

14 hours ago, Gandergear said:

I'm not convinced that increasing slots from 2-5 will cause anything like that, since tatos are also a powerful sink, so that's a bit hyperbolic in my opinion.

You also could have mentioned my previous favorite F2P game, Mechwarrior Online

Eh, it might not cause hyper inflation on it's own but once you've added more slots then you'll prolly want to start doing other stuff too...

Have never played MWO and hadn't even heard of it till right now... is it good?

[Hypernaut1]

On 12/26/2017 at 10:55 AM, ACULonSeer said:

I'm glad to see nobody is blindly defending the game's shortcomings like they would on destiny. Makes me think there will eventually be a solution 

No, sour post just get ignored. What's the point? The feedback forum is where salt goes to die.

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

18 hours ago, Ethorin said:

Finally, I really REALLY don't know how you are going to get more than two frames in your first WEEK. your second frame will probably be Rhino from Venus, but after that is Mercury and you can't get a frame there, you can't get another frame until Mars. And Lecht Kril had damn well better force you into the forums/chat/community/wiki if Jackal didn't.

your forgetting an important point, even though you can get rhino at mars you cannot build it until you gain access to the void and saturn because of control modules and plastids,  some of the other early frames such as oberon require cells

a new player can also cannot build reactors, catalysts,forma due to cells (saturn) or control module requirements (void) also any weapon or equipment that requires plastids or nano spores.

 

jupiter (neural sensors), saturn (plastids, nano spores and orokin cells),void (control modules) and derelict (you can get neurodes in earth but they drop better in derelict) are the biggest resource gates for most of the games equipment.

[Emulad0or]

I believe @[DE]DeckardPain is the one looking into improving the new player experience

There is also an official Thread about this:

 

[Gandergear]

5 hours ago, Ethorin said:

Eh, it might not cause hyper inflation on it's own but once you've added more slots then you'll prolly want to start doing other stuff too...

Have never played MWO and hadn't even heard of it till right now... is it good?

Its worth at least trying but its more deeply flawed than WF, is purely pvp, and is kept alive more by battletech fans than by its own merits, not to say its not fun however, just niche.

Its a slow paced tactical mech fighter with emphasis of range, team work, weight roles, and movement with significantly longer TTK than other games

The choices of customization are also really good on mechs and they have a trial mech system thats basically 'try ember prime with a set mod/weapon loadout until we change to another mech, you get xp in it too', except theres 8 choices. (2 for each weight class)

Its closest comparison would be World of Tanks, but MWOs only premium money abuses are mech slots, colors and skins, special mech variants, where WoT has premium tanks and premium ammunition (hahahahahahaha).

Hit me up if you wanna play it we could do a few matches once you get used to the controls

Oh i should also mention the game has the weirdest loot box system ive ever seen, a loot box is given to 1 random winner of a match, and its opened only with a key worth 14 cents (25 MC) of premium currency (thats 3 platinum for comparison sake), they also give exclusively items you can get in game (but the rare drops are valued about 500-5000MC depending on the prize) , or the box can be sold for a pretty good sum of non premium funbucks. Should also be noted MC can be attained through the frequent monthly events (on avg maybe 300 MC a month for active players) the devs put in, but theres no trading system.

Also the game can be grindy since getting the cbills to buy a mech you want can take on average between 50-180 matches depending on the cost, and then kitting it could take another 20. But a new player wont notice that aince your first 20 matches come with a hefty cadet bonus (which totals to 18m cbills i think??), a system to allow a player to get almost any mech they want for their bought mech. (Otherwise trial mechs are your only options)

Edited December 28, 2017 by Gandergear

[Ethorin]

sounds kind of interesting but I'm not terribly into PvP(PvP wise I play Battlerite occasionaly, League of Legends Sometimes and Smite Off and On)

[Mewvg2]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ethorin said:

I doubt it's driven off anyone who would actually be a positive factor in the Warframe Community

It has, and don't make assumptions about random people. Seriously that's an awful thing to say.

On 12/27/2017 at 12:16 PM, Ethorin said:

Dragon's Prophet

Tera Online

Dungeons and Dragons Online

Elsword

...is your argument literally 'Look at all these bad games and be thankful DE isn't worse'? That's... wow. Now I've only played three of the four, but I can't say I've sunk too much time into any of them, partially because of their microtransaction greed.

I would like to see DE cut more of the systems that punish the newer players (or revise them) and avoid shoving the microtransactions in a new player's face so early. This can only make the game better.

On 12/27/2017 at 12:22 PM, Ethorin said:

There is right now, one thing that EVERY player HAS to spend plat on, slots. Take slots away and one of the most effective early plat sinks is GONE.

The most effective plat sinks in the game is buying weapons and frames for plat and skins. Inventory slots are a drop in the bucket compared to them.

[Mewvg2]

On 12/27/2017 at 2:25 PM, Gandergear said:

2 warframe slots is enough to find a frame you prefer.

I strongly disagree.

On 12/27/2017 at 8:06 PM, ACULonSeer said:

the game is meant to be played with a large collection of frames

The main strength of Warframe is the diversity of things you can take into combat, even DE has mentioned that.

16 hours ago, Ethorin said:

Have never played MWO and hadn't even heard of it till right now... is it good?

No. I mean I've enjoyed my time with MWO, but the devs are more interested in their version of Prime Access (new mech sets) than making the game itself better. Wait for the next Battletech game in the wings imho.

[Ethorin]

7 minutes ago, Mewvg2 said:

The most effective plat sinks in the game is buying weapons and frames for plat and skins. Inventory slots are a drop in the bucket compared to them.

I mean... maybe? I did buy Ivara after coming into 540 plat off a single trade BUT... frankly the reason I have never since reached that sort of plat is because I wind up spending it all on slots or Reactors that I need right now not potentially in two weeks.

8 minutes ago, Mewvg2 said:

I strongly disagree.

do you think two Warframe slots is enough to get you to a point where you can get prime junk and be turning relics into plat at a rate of 2.5 plat per relic minimum?

9 minutes ago, Mewvg2 said:

...is your argument literally 'Look at all these bad games and be thankful DE isn't worse'? That's... wow. Now I've only played three of the four, but I can't say I've sunk too much time into any of them, partially because of their microtransaction greed.

no, my argument is "look at all these people who straight up force every player to spend, now look at DE who let's the players who want to spend spend and the players who don't want to don't."

10 minutes ago, Mewvg2 said:

It has, and don't make assumptions about random people. Seriously that's an awful thing to say.

If you are so impatient and non communicative that you can't find out about the easy solution to your problem I really REALLY doubt you would be a good addition... mostly because I doubt you'd BE an addition. 

[Mewvg2]

10 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

If you are so impatient and non communicative that you can't find out about the easy solution to your problem I really REALLY doubt you would be a good addition... mostly because I doubt you'd BE an addition.

There are people who see the mountain they have to climb just for a quality of life improvement and make the logical conclusion that Warframe is going to nickel and dime them for everything. Understandably, they quit before investing into what they perceive to be a mobile game-esque microtransaction skinner box.

DE could very easily avoid this problem and grow their playerbase further, both making the new user exp better and making more money in the long run. It's just a good thing for everyone.

[Ethorin]

2 minutes ago, Mewvg2 said:

There are people who see the mountain they have to climb just for a quality of life improvement and make the logical conclusion that Warframe is going to nickel and dime them for everything. Understandably, they quit before investing into what they perceive to be a mobile game-esque microtransaction skinner box.

And if you talk to ANYONE AT ALL in ANY of the chats or visit the forums or check out Youtube videos or look it up online the answer is ludicrously easy to find... you know what, I did a search, here was my search term "Warframe Nickel And Diming" my first result was this 

 a four year old thread from BEFORE TRADE WAS A THING. The second result was this 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cynicalbrit/comments/426cg8/my_warframe_relapse/

which I have watched before and then watched his girlfriend's video and whooo boy, their experience would have been SO MUCH BETTER if they'd been willing to, you know, PLAY WITH PEOPLE.

https://forum.waypoint.vice.com/t/is-warframe-going-to-out-destiny-destiny/5191/40

Third and fourth results, a forum thread in another forum comparing Warframe and Destiny where one guy mentions he got turned off by the market. And a bunch of other guys immediately inform him of all the ways the Market is ignorable.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/207763-destiny-2/76120880/892744697

fifth result, a thread about Destiny 2 and cosmetic micro transactions that brings up Warframe and Path of Exile as places where it's okay to have micro transactions.

http://truegametruths.tumblr.com/post/91158887075/prepare-for-nickel-and-diming-tenno-digital

sixth result... I really don't think we need to worry about that one... never mind that the name of the site is really really off putting.

https://www.powerthesaurus.org/nickel-and-diming

seventh result, a thesaurus.

next two results are Urban Dictionary and The Free Dictionary

http://cogconnected.com/review/warframe-xbox-one-review/

last result on the front page, a fairly old review that seems to date to right around Warframe's Xbox1 release talking about how you DON'T need to spend money to get the stuff.

OK... I think I just proved both our points, there are people getting turned away but they either tried it before Trade was a thing and never looked back(which they should) or didn't bother to talk to anyone before actually leaving.

[Mewvg2]

21 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

And if you talk to ANYONE AT ALL in ANY of the chats or visit the forums or check out Youtube videos or look it up online the answer is ludicrously easy to find

You didn't read what I wrote at all, did you? I didn't say anything in that post about not being able to find or figure out the systems. I'm saying some people (including friends of mine) see the grind just for more inventory slots as a pointless money-grubbing thing, something that sets the tone for the rest of their view of the game. These are my friends, as an MR23 vet from back when powers were mods I talk up this game A LOT because I love it so much and take the time to teach them about the game. Even if they know what the grind is, it still seems pointless for something as simple as getting the inventory slots for a new thing to take up. It makes DE look greedy to new players, souring the view of the game.

DE changing that system could help avoid that bad impression.

[Ethorin]

8 minutes ago, Mewvg2 said:

You didn't read what I wrote at all, did you? I didn't say anything in that post about not being able to find or figure out the systems. I'm saying some people (including friends of mine) see the grind just for more inventory slots as a pointless money-grubbing thing, something that sets the tone for the rest of their view of the game. These are my friends, as an MR23 vet from back when powers were mods I talk up this game A LOT because I love it so much and take the time to teach them about the game. Even if they know what the grind is, it still seems pointless for something as simple as getting the inventory slots for a new thing to take up. It makes DE look greedy to new players, souring the view of the game.

DE changing that system could help avoid that bad impression.

...so apparently 90% of F2P games need to change how they function since most of them have CHARACTER slots that are a LOT more limiting then "Oh no, I have two slots and need to grind for more."

 

frankly those friends will probably be happier with stuff they buy upfront.

[Mewvg2]

10 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

...so apparently 90% of F2P games need to change how they function since most of them have CHARACTER slots that are a LOT more limiting then "Oh no, I have two slots and need to grind for more."

We're talking about Warframe, most free to play games are skinner box treadmills while this one is actually good. Oh, and plenty of f2p games make do with only cosmetic microtransactions, with how prevalent Fashion Frame is DE could easily drop the inventory slots and their bottom line wouldn't take much of a hit.