We're Too Powerful.

[WhiteCopain]

No, I really can't. Devil May Cry? Bayonetta? People with hundreds of hours invested into those games find even the hardest difficulty levels trivial. These are, mind you, games infamous for having crushingly hard high difficulty levels. If your complaint is that 'a guy who spent a ton of time in closed beta and has a bunch of maxed mods' finds the game 'easy' your complaint is a non complaint. DE should have just gone "Working. As. Intended." and permanently put guys like you on ignore.

 

The only games where this 'isn't true' are PvP games with a competitive scene where high-level players don't find the game easy due to being matched with other high level players.

Take Devil May Cry 4 for example. How many bosses (or normal enemies) can a guy who's played a hundred hours just stand still and let them beat on him before he presses a single button to instantly one shot everyone in the room?

 

None. Because Skill is not gear. You get more skill the more you play games like DMC and that makes it easier. You don't become an immortal god who one shots every boss in any difficulty because of your skill.

[MJ12]

Give me a valid reason for crippling myself. It won't be more fun since I'll not be able to use any warframe abilities (as the majority of abilities clear a room, make me immune to damage, CC mobs forever, or the like), which is boring. My gun will shoot slow (Can't have any sort of mods on that as any type of mod is going to make the game easier). And my Sword will charge slow and swing slow (It'll still one shot most things though).

 

On top of this my frame will move slower and I'll get no rewards as getting mods or exp will do nothing to me and any I get won't do anything for me.

 

Because you think the game is more fun on Mercury without mods. So 'crippling yourself' makes the game far more fun. If you actually care about fun instead of lording it over noobs like an elitist, you'd do it. Who said you had to remove all mods too? Maybe keep a few you like. Limit yourself to one non-skill mod of each polarity. Whatever.

 

The game has repeatedly gotten more and more 'difficult' over iterations, and what happens is that the same goddamn players are never goddamn satisified, while anyone who wants to play in a vaguely casual sense (or solos) gets punched in the $&*^ repeatedly and their complaints are dismissed with 'lrn2play nub' or 'stop soloing'.

[WhiteCopain]

So, you are in fact arguing that the game should be balanced around the assumption that the optimal loadout is the one taken.  And that therefore the game should be balanced such that if you don't take the optimal loadout, the game pins you down and beats you in the crotch with a club with nails in it.

 

My gods, you're an utterly toxic customer who apparently believes that the best possible thing DE can do is to make the game completely and utterly unplayable unless you've invested a hundred hours into grinding up your gear.  And that "noobs" can just go suck on your forma'd, multishot-equipped, max-damage Hek.

 

So, basically, you want Warframe to be a failure from a commercial and gameplay PoV, just to serve your desire to have your ego massaged for validation.

 

...

 

I mean, honestly.  Whining that things are "too easy", and at the same point saying you have no reason to not use the specific gear combination which trivialises matters?  You didn't even try to check your argument for gaping flaws, did you?

Who said anything about being Optimal? How many players go around just not even using their skills? You're saying that the game is perfect as long as nobody plays or uses the skills of most of the frames.

[WhiteCopain]

Because you think the game is more fun on Mercury without mods. So 'crippling yourself' makes the game far more fun. If you actually care about fun instead of lording it over noobs like an elitist, you'd do it. Who said you had to remove all mods too? Maybe keep a few you like. Limit yourself to one non-skill mod of each polarity. Whatever.

 

The game has repeatedly gotten more and more 'difficult' over iterations, and what happens is that the same goddamn players are never goddamn satisified, while anyone who wants to play in a vaguely casual sense (or solos) gets punched in the $&*^ repeatedly and their complaints are dismissed with 'lrn2play nub' or 'stop soloing'.

So you're honestly telling me that you're unable to clear any of the Nightmare mode missions?

[MJ12]

Take Devil May Cry 4 for example. How many bosses (or normal enemies) can a guy who's played a hundred hours just stand still and let them beat on him before he presses a single button to instantly one shot everyone in the room?

 

None. Because Skill is not gear. You get more skill the more you play games like DMC and that makes it easier. You don't become an immortal god who one shots every boss in any difficulty because of your skill.

 

So you're saying that you didn't, in fact, get any skill in Warframe over those hundreds of hours. Nothing about knowing enemies. Nothing about navigating maps or evading attacks or how to set up your equipment.

 

Absolutely no skill whatsoever. The only thing that happened is you got bigger numbers.

 

And frankly, whether it's skill or gear is irrelevant. A non PvP game (or a PvP game with poor matchmaking) will likely become trivial to someone who's invested hundreds of hours into it by its very nature. If the game's easy now that you've spent hundreds of hours playing it, it's working as intended. Nobody cares.

[MJ12]

So you're honestly telling me that you're unable to clear any of the Nightmare mode missions?

 

Ah right, the last resort of the toxic customer. Imply that the opposition is a whiny babby who needs to 'lrn2play'.

 

My nightmare clear rate is none of your business, boyo.

[WhiteCopain]

So you're saying that you didn't, in fact, get any skill in Warframe over those hundreds of hours. Nothing about knowing enemies. Nothing about navigating maps or evading attacks or how to set up your equipment.

 

Absolutely no skill whatsoever. The only thing that happened is you got bigger numbers.

 

And frankly, whether it's skill or gear is irrelevant. A non PvP game (or a PvP game with poor matchmaking) will likely become trivial to someone who's invested hundreds of hours into it by its very nature. If the game's easy now that you've spent hundreds of hours playing it, it's working as intended. Nobody cares.

I typed that entire first post of this topic by alt tabbing out of the game in a defense mission, typing, tabbing back in once a wave, and hitting 4 on Nova.

 

Is that a super hardcore skill?

[WhiteCopain]

Ah right, the last resort of the toxic customer. Imply that the opposition is a whiny babby who needs to 'lrn2play'.

 

My nightmare clear rate is none of your business, boyo.

No, It's got nothing with me being pro. I'm asking you if you are actually saying that Nightmare mode is impossible to the average player and that you cannot do it. If so, why not show me? Record a video of your run and point out to me why you're unable to do it.

 

You've been very insulting when I've avoided it, don't put words in my mouth and claim that I'm telling you to learn to play.

Edited August 3, 2013 by WhiteCopain

[RealityMachina]

I've played since Closed beta and only through the Double affinity weekend event (And affinity booster) did I get to Mastery 6.

 

I have only a handful of maxed mods (no important ones outside of skill ones)

So, wait, you complain about how maxed out gear makes early game content easy...

 

and then say you don't have any of that high level gear at all?

 

Edited August 3, 2013 by RealityMachina

[VER1]

Being powerful is part of the charm of this game.

 

Self-control and common sense is needed once warframes get to the stage where forma is the only way to becmope more powerful.

 

In my opinion it is not necessary to waste more than a couple of forma on a warframe.

But some people demand to feel more powerful than other players and want to be 'champion' of their clan by besting everyone at the dueling room or by having most kills in a session.

[WhiteCopain]

So, wait, you complain about how maxed out gear makes early game content easy...

 

and then say you don't have any of that high level gear at all?

 

Not early game content, all content.

 

And if I'm in middle of the road gear and already able to hit 4 to clear any room of the game...

[MJ12]

I typed that entire first post of this topic by alt tabbing out of the game in a defense mission, typing, tabbing back in once a wave, and hitting 4 on Nova.

 

Is that a super hardcore skill?

 

It's almost as if Defense Mode has broken balance because of how it's an objective based design that makes some powers ridiculously OP. It's almost as if this could be fixed easily by giving things like Capture, Spy, and so on actually worthwhile rewards.

 

 

No, It's got nothing with me being pro. I'm asking you if you are actually saying that Nightmare mode is impossible to the average player and that you cannot do it. If so, why not show me? Record a video of your run and point out to me why you're unable to do it.

 

You've been very insulting when I've avoided it, don't put words in my mouth and claim that I'm telling you to learn to play.

 

My experience with nightmare mode is irrelevant to what the average player's experience will be (FYI: I have 300 hours in the game), boyo. Stop trying to change the subject.

[SoulEchelon]

I see multiple valid points here. And while Rhino is OP, he's not the only problem child. Just about every frame can make a lot of the game meaningless. With mods, any weapon can destroy any enemy and never run out of ammo outside of extreme situations. Mods also allow any frame to be Fast and neigh immortal while spamming spells at will.

 

Oh I know Rhino isn't the only problem. He's just the most noticeable.

 

Also, I wouldn't give mods -that- much credit, because even though you can circumvent mod capacity points by way of catalysts and formas, you still have a limited number of slots available. You have choices in the matter - buff energy, buff survivability, or try and balance the two.

 

Let's take Nova for instance. If you want to spam her Molecular Prime, you're going to have to go with most of the energy-buffing mods. You can fit HP and shield mods there, but she's still paper thin thanks to her lower defensive stats and capabilities. Frankly, thanks to Stalker being able to nullify her most powerful attack, she's one of the worst warframes to fight him with unless you can -quickly- find a safe spot to snipe him from. I know this first hand. Nova's AOE abilities are definitely the strongest, but no matter how many mods you have on her, she'll die pretty damn quick if she doesn't kill her enemies first. Since the best way to use MP is to be in the middle of a huge group of enemies...yeah, she's strong, but there's some real risk vs. reward going on there. Defense? She's queen. Bosses? Her abilities really help save the day, but one on one she's heavily vulnerable.

 

Edit: I notice people are talking about formas now. Just to clarify, I have used exactly 1 forma. On my Acrid. Got it back to rank 30 and haven't even touched it since.

Edited August 3, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[WhiteCopain]

It's almost as if Defense Mode has broken balance because of how it's an objective based design that makes some powers ridiculously OP. It's almost as if this could be fixed easily by giving things like Capture, Spy, and so on actually worthwhile rewards.

 

 

 

My experience with nightmare mode is irrelevant to what the average player's experience will be (FYI: I have 300 hours in the game), boyo. Stop trying to change the subject.

You're right, giving those other missions better rewards could be a fix. It wouldn't make them difficult to clear if you can hit the 4 button though.

 

So basically you can clear Nightmare mode without issue, but claim that the average player can't and they're being shot in the foot. I'm the one with the E-peen?

[WhiteCopain]

Oh I know Rhino isn't the only problem. He's just the most noticeable.

 

Also, I wouldn't give mods -that- much credit, because even though you can circumvent mod capacity points by way of catalysts and formas, you still have a limited number of slots available. You have choices in the matter - buff energy, buff survivability, or try and balance the two.

 

Let's take Nova for instance. If you want to spam her Molecular Prime, you're going to have to go with most of the energy-buffing mods. You can fit HP and shield mods there, but she's still paper thin thanks to her lower defensive stats and capabilities. Frankly, thanks to Stalker being able to nullify her most powerful attack, she's one of the worst warframes to fight him with unless you can -quickly- find a safe spot to snipe him from. I know this first hand. Nova's AOE abilities are definitely the strongest, but no matter how many mods you have on her, she'll die pretty damn quick if she doesn't kill her enemies first. Since the best way to use MP is to be in the middle of a huge group of enemies...yeah, she's strong, but there's some real risk vs. reward going on there. Defense? She's queen. Bosses? Her abilities really help save the day, but one on one she's heavily vulnerable.

I suppose, but that's partly where a team comes into play. Any real downsides one frame has, another frame can instantly fix it. And to the game's credit, I do see most people playing whatever frame they want, which typically results in nothing ever touching anyone's HP.

[Numot]

the AI in this game is far from decent. so far, the AI consists of:

 

1. shoot one thing constantly

2. sometimes seek cover

3. sometimes stand in one place and shoot

4. stick together in large meaty groups

5. see any enemy through walls if alarm is on

6. ignore everything and run for cover/melee target/panels

7. stand completely bonkers still while the death bringing enemy is coming right for you

8. zergrush the enemy even if you aren't suited for that

9. start jogging in circles because your pathfinding cant find a good route to the target right in front of you

10. occatuionally throw grenades at your feet

11. sometimes jump down into a pit

12. aim at enemies that are behind walls

13. walk past a tenno, only to 2 seconds later realize that fact and stand completely still, shooting that tenno as he chops you in half

So much this.

 

 

While I agree AI Would fix a lot, the AI of the game isn't that bad. It's not fantastic, but enemies are generally pretty decent. The main issue I find is there's no proper conduit for them. The enemies don't really have the tools to fight back, not just the AI.

One of those tools they desperately need is some teamwork and cohesion. The Grineer for example will rush into a room and then spread out to take cover randomly, rather than pairing off to try and flank you. Infested units will always rush you rather than say, huddling up with an Ancient Healer and rushing together, or having Chargers try to harass you and distract you from other units, instead of their attempts to maul you. The fact that the AI goes as far as unit alone rather than groups of units is a big issue that needs to be addressed. The day Corpus Techs recall flocks of MOAs to them to make a shielded push against a squad, is the day people will start having to pay attention to what they are doing.

[WhiteCopain]

So much this.

 

 

One of those tools they desperately need is some teamwork and cohesion. The Grineer for example will rush into a room and then spread out to take cover randomly, rather than pairing off to try and flank you. Infested units will always rush you rather than say, huddling up with an Ancient Healer and rushing together, or having Chargers try to harass you and distract you from other units, instead of their attempts to maul you. The fact that the AI goes as far as unit alone rather than groups of units is a big issue that needs to be addressed. The day Corpus Techs recall flocks of MOAs to them to make a shielded push against a squad, is the day people will start having to pay attention to what they are doing.

That would be a nice increase in difficulty and immersion, aye, I very much agree with that. But even with that, Vauban can still lift that entire group for me to charge attack them to death long before the skill wears off.

[RealityMachina]

Not early game content, all content.

 

And if I'm in middle of the road gear and already able to hit 4 to clear any room of the game...

I'm basically trying to imply that all your statements are starting to ping on my truth o meter as the following:

[WhiteCopain]

I'm basically trying to imply that all your statements are starting to ping on my truth o meter as the following:

Still loving how rather than being rational you're saying that you are an above average player and just tossing insults.

[bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib]

You do realize this game doesn't have that much in end-game material to offer, right. Nightmare mode and endless defense so-far are the closest things to end-game material for people who are looking for a challenge to test their gear. If you want more of a challenge play something else for awhile and wait till they implement new challenges.

Edited August 3, 2013 by bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib

[WhiteCopain]

You do realize this game doesn't have that much in end-game material to offer, right. Nightmare mode and endless defense so-far are the closest things to end-game material for people who are looking for a challenge to test their gear. If you want more of a challenge play something else for awhile and wait till they implement new challenges.

It'd be a pretty massive leap in difficulty to make something hard for a Fully Forma'd max mod player from something that someone with maybe one Forma can clear any room in the game.

[Frostmire]

How about reducing mods power ? Because at the moment , the mods scale like crazy

[WhiteCopain]

How about reducing mods power ? Because at the moment , the mods scale like crazy

I'd agree with any solution to make the maxed out player potential weaker.

[bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib]

It'd be a pretty massive leap in difficulty to make something hard for a Fully Forma'd max mod player from something that someone with maybe one Forma can clear any room in the game.

If you really want to challenge yourself at this point then go play end-less defense and see how far you get. Simple.

[SoulEchelon]

I suppose, but that's partly where a team comes into play. Any real downsides one frame has, another frame can instantly fix it. And to the game's credit, I do see most people playing whatever frame they want, which typically results in nothing ever touching anyone's HP.

 

Well isn't that how a group oriented game works? Each person in the group strengthening each other by filling the holes in their defenses? I'd absolutely hate a game that didn't offer the ability to work with others to form a cohesive unit. that's why I'll once again say Solo mode is where you want to go for a true challenge. You aren't in a group, so no one's aiding you in covering your weaknesses. You have to fully play by your strengths.