We're Too Powerful.

[WhiteCopain]

If you really want to challenge yourself at this point then go play end-less defense and see how far you get. Simple.

Aye, I do, but playing one mission and needing to get to 40 or so before It becomes something I can't just alt tab out of kinda gets meh..

 

 

Well isn't that how a group oriented game works? Each person in the group strengthening each other by filling the holes in their defenses? I'd absolutely hate a game that didn't offer the ability to work with others to form a cohesive unit. that's why I'll once again say Solo mode is where you want to go for a true challenge. You aren't in a group, so no one's aiding you in covering your weaknesses. You have to fully play by your strengths.

And that is true, but If I do want to Solo I think there are other games better suited for that. A game like this I play for the team play... and it's marketed as such.

[ValhaHazred]

This whole topic is

In my opinion we aren't too powerful, the enemies just lack any interestingly dangerous attacks.

Adding something like a Corpus plasma cannon that is slow and dodgeable, but deals hundreds of damage and deals DoT until you roll a couple times or a Grineer with a huge minigun that sprays ridiculous amounts of ammo but can't turn quickly.

There just needs to be a better mix between light bullet spam (almost all the enemy has at the moment) and interesting power attacks. So far all I can think of is Shockwave Moa and the newer bosses.

[LazyKnight]

 

And that is true, but If I do want to Solo I think there are other games better suited for that. A game like this I play for the team play... and it's marketed as such.

This game is nearly broken when 4 people are in the same mission because the difficulty drops to near zero. DE really didn't do group balance well because the warframe's 3rd and 4th power trivializes every obstacle in game. Playing high level defense mission could be done more efficiently by using a few bots to play the entire team since it is repeating the same steps every wave.

 

As screwed up as solo play is, it it about the only way to play the game and have real difficulty. I again blame warframe powers and how easy it is for a group to smash any mission so long as the proper frames are used.

Edited August 3, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Midas]

Son, have you done T3 defense gl

[Midas]

This game is nearly broken when 4 people are in the same mission because the difficulty drops to near zero. DE really didn't do group balance well because the warframe's 3rd and 4th power trivializes every obstacle in game. Playing high level defense mission could be done more efficiently by using a few bots to play the entire team since it is repeating the same steps every wave.

 

As screwed up as solo play is, it it about the only way to play the game and have real difficulty. I again blame warframe powers and how easy it is for a group to smash any mission so long as the proper frames are used.

PLAY T3 DEFENSE

[WhiteCopain]

This game is nearly broken when 4 people are in the same mission because the difficulty drops to near zero. DE really didn't do group balance well because the warframe's 3rd and 4th power trivializes every obstacle in game. Playing high level defense mission could be done more efficiently by using a few bots to play the entire team since it is repeating the same steps every wave.

 

As screwed up as solo play is, it it about the only way to play the game and have real difficulty. I again blame warframe powers and how easy it is for a group to smash any mission so long as the proper frames are used.

Yeah.

 

 

 

Son, have you done T3 defense gl

Yes. I have, plenty of times. And cleared it. without ever taking damage or the pod. Because Frost Vauban Nova Rhino.

[LazyKnight]

PLAY T3 DEFENSE

I solo'd it yesterday -_- just use a frost

[SoulEchelon]

Aye, I do, but playing one mission and needing to get to 40 or so before It becomes something I can't just alt tab out of kinda gets meh..

 

 

And that is true, but If I do want to Solo I think there are other games better suited for that. A game like this I play for the team play... and it's marketed as such.

 

Exactly, it's marketed toward team play. That's why when you get a good group, it's alot of fun and your enemies are left in the dust.

 

I understand what you're saying - you want more challenge, and not just in solo mode. Currently DE is trying to give that to those of us with high end warframe/weapons/mod ranks. It's an ongoing process - Nightmare Mode being part of it. According to DE_Steve, we're going to be faced with alot more challenges in the future. Warframe's still extremely in its infancy... I suggest holding out a bit longer.

[WhiteCopain]

Exactly, it's marketed toward team play. That's why when you get a good group, it's alot of fun and your enemies are left in the dust.

 

I understand what you're saying - you want more challenge, and not just in solo mode. Currently DE is trying to give that to those of us with high end warframe/weapons/mod ranks. It's an ongoing process - Nightmare Mode being part of it. According to DE_Steve, we're going to be faced with alot more challenges in the future. Warframe's still extremely in its infancy... I suggest holding out a bit longer.

First off, I like you. It's nice to see someone who doesn't resort to insults.

 

Second, my main point isn't so much that I'm worried we won't see a difficulty spike in the eventual future, so much as I feel the potential power with Forma, no skill cooldowns, and so on, is way too high. Sure Difficulty might spike, but it'll take a long time to match the potential power of the Tenno. Hell it'll take a long time just to get to where a middle of the road guy is with one or two Formas and only a few maxed mods. Powers are just so powerful that you destroy everything with one button.

[SoulEchelon]

First off, I like you. It's nice to see someone who doesn't resort to insults.

 

Second, my main point isn't so much that I'm worried we won't see a difficulty spike in the eventual future, so much as I feel the potential power with Forma, no skill cooldowns, and so on, is way too high. Sure Difficulty might spike, but it'll take a long time to match the potential power of the Tenno. Hell it'll take a long time just to get to where a middle of the road guy is with one or two Formas and only a few maxed mods. Powers are just so powerful that you destroy everything with one button.

 

Yeah I find this forum is filled with enough people raging at each other. After that whole debacle with the last event and the winning clan attacking and insulting -everyone- for "not being as good", I realized then and there that I didn't want to be remotely connected to people like them.

 

Anyway, yes. The Tenno are incredibly powerful. But their power should stem mainly from being in a group, and that's really where they all shine (except for our true "ninja" warframes - Ash and Loki. They're most suited for solo imo). I think frankly your main problems don't -fully- stem from just our overwhelming powers, but from the way the enemy AI works, or how certain missions work. Defense could be -alot- more engaging if enemies didn't constantly run a set and particular pattern. More traps and enemy ambushes would be a good idea too.

 

But the big problem frankly lies in this community. As I said earlier, people rage when things change, especially when easy content is given a makeover to make it more challenging. DE is constantly doing a balancing act where everyone in the crowd they're trying to entertain simply hate each other and won't let DE do their routine without constant heckling.

 

Edit: Anyway, good topic. Got things to do today so I'll leave it at that. It was nice finally having a good conversation with someone that doesn't instantly resort to namecalling and undermining. Seeya around.

Edited August 3, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Minfduck]

I think some of it also comes down to a lot of people are fairly new to the game whereas some of the older players do remember what it was like and how its changed. Also looking at the new Warframes they have quite simply become more powerful - take mag for instance, she was a pretty early frame which had some good abilities referring to her theme (pull, bullet attract, shield polarize (or whatever the shield one is called lol)), but at max level her ultimate, because it does a set amount of damage is pretty useless apart from being an expensive stun.  whereas some of the newer frames take Nova for instance, where her first ability basically means you don't have to do anything at all up till about 25-30 bar keep 1 refreshed means you are almost fighting with yourself to get kills which is weird. (yes I can already here the response of "dont use that ability then", but that simply isnt the answer. We all want to win by finding a way using what the game gives us rather than handicapping ourselves, its the point of a game in its very essence) Her third ability is great, and really fun to either explore the map or get around with, however her third and fourth abilities do still scale quite well with reports of getting over 10k damage using the ball (I cant remember the name of it) which is kinda crazy. Basically what I am trying to say is I think the best way along with advancing the AI is to better balance a Warframes abilities so that they have a point as to how damage they can do, and how they can interact with the other players (not just particular warframes either or we are back to using a select few) The way I see it is DE can either continue the way they are going and perhaps add more mechanics to every fight which when we only have 3 different factions, and lets say an average of 6 units within each faction, things will start to get old fairly quickly, though this keeps most of the players happy, or they can go about changing abilities so they have a max damage but situational or team abilities. Im not a game designer so this is just my 2 cents but having almost all the weapons in the game and almost all the frames to 30 now I notice I only really use my best stuff because who wants to feel gimped? I know with time things will change - we after long last can have players health on the screen all the time now so poor Trinity can finally get off the phone to the psychic to find out when to use her abilities. 

Conclusion: we need an endgame! 

[Xylia]

You're only powerful if you have the mods and things to make you powerful.

 

For example, I still don't have Focus.

 

MY Rhino's Iron Skin doesn't last very long anything Lv50+, because I don't have Focus.

 

I don't have a maxed Redirection so when my Iron Skin goes down, that 800 shields really doesn't last very long.

 

I don't have maxed mods and multiple forma on my weapons (I don't have anything forma'd yet), so I can't drop everything that looks at me in a split second.

 

The difference between a max-modded player, and a mid-modded player is simply ridiculous. If you balance the game around the max-modded players, the game becomes utterly impossible for newbies and mid-power players. If you balance the game around mid-power players, the max-modded players are bored out of their minds.

 

DE only made the situation worse with Nightmare Mods. Mods should not stack, or at least should have diminishing returns. I mean seriously, Point Blank + Incendiary Coat + Blaze? And they all stack? *rolls eyes* overpowered as Hell. Add Hell's Chamber and... everything dies in one shot with a Sobek.

[LazyKnight]

 

DE only made the situation worse with Nightmare Mods. Mods should not stack, or at least should have diminishing returns. I mean seriously, Point Blank + Incendiary Coat + Blaze? And they all stack? *rolls eyes* overpowered as Hell. Add Hell's Chamber and... everything dies in one shot with a Sobek.

Off-topic fire is one of the worst, if not the worst, elemental when it comes to scaling. On any mission that is non corpus they are basically impervious to it after level 90+.

 

Nightmare mode mods are the least of the problem because weapon are no where near as important as warframe powers. Try using a NOVA it makes fireworks of every NPC in a huge radius around you. I am not saying NOVA is OP but the room cleaning and total CC powers are far more problematic because it effortless to get them and max them out.

 

Frost and Vauban are the 2 kings of defense maps and are becoming more mandatory with every new defense map. It certainly possible to do mission without them but there is no point in even trying since it so incredible effective to have those two frames.

 

I agree however on the game is far easier for someone that has every mod compared to a new player.

[Dasmir]

"We re too powerful"

 

Nah is just the AI being $&*&*#(%& as always i dare you to say that against a level 100 heavy with minor tactis is going to melt you shield in sec.

[CriticalVoid1]

For the game to truly be challenging, better AI needs to be implemented.

 

Would upvote this fifty times if I could, but I can't even upvote it once. "You've reached your maximum number of positive posts for one day." So here, have a metaphorical +1.

[WhiteCopain]

"We re too powerful"

 

Nah is just the AI being $&*&*#(%& as always i dare you to say that against a level 100 heavy with minor tactis is going to melt you shield in sec.

I doubt it, I wouldn't let him get a shot off. CC isn't exactly hard to come by.

[MJ12]

You're right, giving those other missions better rewards could be a fix. It wouldn't make them difficult to clear if you can hit the 4 button though.

 

So basically you can clear Nightmare mode without issue, but claim that the average player can't and they're being shot in the foot. I'm the one with the E-peen?

 

So you can hit the 4 button indefinitely without any issue and this kills everything on, say, a Pluto mission. They don't respawn or anything. Not. At. All. Man what game are you playing? Because it isn't actually Warframe. Past Earth, half the ultimates stop working on Grineer effectively. On stuff like Ceres, even the armor-ignore ones become depressingly useless. Yes, you can use it to soften up enemies and let the other players massacre them if you have a good coordinated team...

 

but if you have a good, coordinated team you should find this game easy because holy crap that's 90% of the 'skill' in the game, having good teamwork.

 

Also, lol at accusing me of being the one with the e-peen. I've been saying my experience with Nightmare mode is irrelevant (and my experience is that Nightmare mode is unfun bulls**t that I can beat but loathe the hell out of). I'm saying that I have a ton of mods the average player will not have, having spent *three hundred hours* in it. I'm not the one saying "oh yeah, I'm so good give me a harder experience!"

 

But hey, that's clearly 'elitism'. You asked for my experience in nightmare mode solely so you could try to call me an elitist.

Edited August 4, 2013 by MJ12

[Scowlface2]

So basically the only way to make the game difficult is to cripple myself with no benefit to doing so. Hell this would only make me worse off by making it slower to get more mods, materials, levels, and the like. So I would Cripple myself and get less rewards.

 

Oh man what a great way to play that has no point to it.

 

It's funny how you don't think the game is hard enough, but then shy away from increasing the many ways of increasing difficulty for yourself.

 

Let's be honest. You don't think the game is hard enough. You just want to drive away people who have fun with matters as they are by making it an exercise in masochism.

 

Go play EVE if you like that.

[Senteth]

Even Nova's ult will leave enemies standing once you start getting into the high-level stuff, requiring either 2-3 uses of her skill, big crowds for maximum explosion effects, or the synergy bonus from touching it off with antimatter drop. With lvl 130 heavy gunners in high-end void missions I've found it's often more useful to use M-Prime for the 2x damage modifier it gives than for its explosion.

[PaperAlien]

Yeah let's ask for the game to be made even harder, even though they just jacked up most enemy levels by like 20. Who cares about new players?

[WhiteCopain]

Yeah let's ask for the game to be made even harder, even though they just jacked up most enemy levels by like 20. Who cares about new players?

No. I didn't say make the enemies harder, I said make the Tenno power ceiling lower

Edited August 4, 2013 by WhiteCopain

[WhiteCopain]

It's funny how you don't think the game is hard enough, but then shy away from increasing the many ways of increasing difficulty for yourself.

 

Let's be honest. You don't think the game is hard enough. You just want to drive away people who have fun with matters as they are by making it an exercise in masochism.

 

Go play EVE if you like that.

Lets say I removed all my mods, how would I stop the random Pubs I group with from having mods?

[WhiteCopain]

So you can hit the 4 button indefinitely without any issue and this kills everything on, say, a Pluto mission. They don't respawn or anything. Not. At. All. Man what game are you playing? Because it isn't actually Warframe. Past Earth, half the ultimates stop working on Grineer effectively. On stuff like Ceres, even the armor-ignore ones become depressingly useless. Yes, you can use it to soften up enemies and let the other players massacre them if you have a good coordinated team...

 

but if you have a good, coordinated team you should find this game easy because holy crap that's 90% of the 'skill' in the game, having good teamwork.

 

Also, lol at accusing me of being the one with the e-peen. I've been saying my experience with Nightmare mode is irrelevant (and my experience is that Nightmare mode is unfun bulls**t that I can beat but loathe the hell out of). I'm saying that I have a ton of mods the average player will not have, having spent *three hundred hours* in it. I'm not the one saying "oh yeah, I'm so good give me a harder experience!"

 

But hey, that's clearly 'elitism'. You asked for my experience in nightmare mode solely so you could try to call me an elitist.

I'm not saying I want the entire game to be harder, I want the max power someone get to be lower so there's atleast a chance mobs can fight a maxed player rather than him one hitting all of them while being immortal.

[Xylia]

Off-topic fire is one of the worst, if not the worst, elemental when it comes to scaling. On any mission that is non corpus they are basically impervious to it after level 90+.

 

Nightmare mode mods are the least of the problem because weapon are no where near as important as warframe powers. Try using a NOVA it makes fireworks of every NPC in a huge radius around you. I am not saying NOVA is OP but the room cleaning and total CC powers are far more problematic because it effortless to get them and max them out.

 

Frost and Vauban are the 2 kings of defense maps and are becoming more mandatory with every new defense map. It certainly possible to do mission without them but there is no point in even trying since it so incredible effective to have those two frames.

 

I agree however on the game is far easier for someone that has every mod compared to a new player.

 

Protip: You equip Blaze more for the extra +Base Damage than you do the Fire Damage.

 

The Fire Damage is a great Infested killer, though!

 

Stick that OP combination on a Sobek and...

 

250 Base Damage over 4 Pellets.

 

Oh, but wait! Stick Hell's Chamber on that and you get 500 Base Damage over 8 Pellets.

 

I don't know of very many other ranged weapons that do 500 base damage.

 

EDIT: You could do even better with a Hek, but the Reload and Clip Size means the Sobek will ultimately do more damage.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Xylia

[Loswaith]

So basically the only way to make the game difficult is to cripple myself with no benefit to doing so. Hell this would only make me worse off by making it slower to get more mods, materials, levels, and the like. So I would Cripple myself and get less rewards.

 

Oh man what a great way to play that has no point to it.

So you find the game too easy and dont want to take any responsability yourself for making the game harder when it is still in development?

You want good loot yet complain that you are already too powerful, when more loot will make you more powerful?

So you think you will cripple youself doing so but are complaing about having your fun crippled by this exact thing, when games are about the fun?

 

 

I've played since Closed beta and only through the Double affinity weekend event (And affinity booster) did I get to Mastery 6....

Try other weapons and load outs, some weapons are allot tougher to actually use because they just dont laugh at your opponents.

 

3-4 player groups will always have an easy game, it did before update 9 and still does after it because the game doesnt scale at the rate is needs to to keep the solo/duo challenge level at the 3-4 player level.  Enemies need to scale in levels and numbers for 3-4 players.  If 1 player is equivlent to 100%, 4 players working togeather isnt actually 400% its more like 500% or more of the solo effectivness, because of the added team-play synergies.

 

You have also been through all the super boosting stages so you have left the current growth curve in the dust.

 

The issue is the game being easy for 3-4 people, yet 3-4 organised people make it too easy.

Increasing the difficulity wont change the scalling factor for groups, enemies are currenlty reasonably good individually (just play solo and you can see that, but it still needs work in places) and exceptionally powerful in many cases.  However they are still AI, even the best AI isnt a match for a player because its predictable.

 

Some are silly, some work togeather, some are downright annoying, some scatter, some group, and some are simply cheap (not difficuilt).

 

You have options, reduce your own power, play in smaller groups/solo.  Hell even try resetting, then you will be again at the bottom of the curve and not directly crippling yourself.  Maybe even walk away from the game until it's completed

At the end of the day its you being responsible for your own fun, if you arent going to take that responsibility, then there is nothing DE nore any of the rest of us can help you with anyway.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Loswaith