More Tactical Gameplay? Too Much Run And Gun Spam!

[Deepsixeden]

I have played Warframe for over 300 hours atm, and I LOVE it. But my friends and I agree that some more tactical gameplay would be an awesome addition. Not that we do not appreciate all the hard work and effort the staff of Warframe has already done for all, you have all done a beyond fantastic job.

 

Just a little feedback from a long time supporter and founder.

 

More tactical gameplay such as cover systems, a bit more espionage themed option of gameplay, and a less "sprint into every room spraying bullets everywhere" kind of approach!

 

However, know that whatever you guys do, we will support you fully. Through the growing pains, the bad calls and the good calls!

 

Keep up the good work!

 

-Founder Deepsixeden

[Renathy]

Buy Dark Sector.

[ReiganCross]

Enemy AI is too stupid for any smart idea to come by. This means that Stealth is impossible since once the enemy had a glance of you he will know where you are with pin-point precision and will never lose your exact location. (Because DE can't program the enemy to do any differently)

 

And they are pretty anal retentive about setting any sort of smart cover system, expecting us to take "soft cover" which just blows for third person shooter.

 

They won't stop promising you that it will get better though...

[Gregio]

Well, try a void 3 defense mission.
We had to get a bit tactical there earlier today.

We needed set frames and differentiated gear, Torid to DPS the doors for the weaker enemies, Frost and Nyx to control the room, Saryn and Rhino for DPS and resistance.

In general, I agree with your post, perhaps the new mode will be a nice addition, the one where we have to protect mobile Lotus they talked about.
There's a difference between doing tactical gameplay and needing it. You can be tactical in Warframe and it will certainly makes things easier. But for a great part, you can just run and gun.

[FunkDoctaSpock]

More tactical gameplay such as cover systems, a bit more espionage themed option of gameplay, and a less "sprint into every room spraying bullets everywhere" kind of approach!

nightmare mode might bring a bit of what you want. Going through a mission with low gravity, no shields and energy drain, forces you to approach the game differently.

[TheOnlyWarBear]

I agree with your point, Deepsixeden. I have played many games, and I do enjoy the more tactial aspect of them. Ealier today, I attempted to play a mission without being detected. Although a success, I could see that if one enemy sees me, all of them see me. Why can't we make it so if an enemy sees you, AND you don't make to much noise, the other enemies don't "see" them. What I mean by this is it would be just like it is for us currently. If the enemy doesn't "see" us or "hear" us, they do not react.

 

I propose we do the same for AI in the game. You know it has happened; you found the "one guy that's alone" and he sees you and then two rooms later your still being attacked?

Edited August 6, 2013 by Kunsumption

[Kadishia]

More tactical gameplay such as cover systems

 

-Founder Deepsixeden

 

NO NO NO NO NO!

 

They have it in the FAQ list. Ninjas are run and gun type gameplay. Cover system will sacrifice the pace of the gameplay. There are places where you could take time to recover.

Edited August 6, 2013 by M4sterofp4in

[Angius]

This game is supposed to BE run&gun!
So cover system is a no-no. It'll make game slower and easier.

If DE will give us cover system, they'll also need to make enemies stronger. You know, hiding behind cover, when you can smash your enemy with one hit of E button is... Well... Ridiculous?
If DE will balance the game towards cover-shooter, run'n'gunning will be much harder. And we don't want this. Warframe is not supposed to be tactical game like ME series. Nor even like GoW or any other cover-shooter.
Run and gun. Your agility and speed is your best cover.

[ReiganCross]

NO NO NO NO NO!

 

They have it in the FAQ list. Ninjas are run and gun type gameplay. Cover system will sacrifice the pace of the gameplay. There are places where you could take time to recover.

 

This game is supposed to BE run&gun!

So cover system is a no-no. It'll make game slower and easier.

If DE will give us cover system, they'll also need to make enemies stronger. You know, hiding behind cover, when you can smash your enemy with one hit of E button is... Well... Ridiculous?

If DE will balance the game towards cover-shooter, run'n'gunning will be much harder. And we don't want this. Warframe is not supposed to be tactical game like ME series. Nor even like GoW or any other cover-shooter.

Run and gun. Your agility and speed is your best cover.

 

Then there are guys like this who hold the game back thinking the bloody thing is perfect...

[Renathy]

Then there are guys like this who hold the game back thinking the bloody thing is perfect...

 

You got to admit that this is an action shooter. If tactic was to be involved, it would have to be tweaked immensely and most likely re-done.

[ReiganCross]

Well yeah, but this game is pretty far from being inteligent... I don't want to watch a screen in a real-time strategy way or something, but i wouldn't mind having a smart action game instead of a mindless one.

[whitejackale]

NO NO NO NO NO!

 

They have it in the FAQ list. Ninjas are run and gun type gameplay. Cover system will sacrifice the pace of the gameplay. There are places where you could take time to recover.

"Ninjas are run and gun type gameplay." ???

[Bakercompany86]

Then there are guys like this who hold the game back thinking the bloody thing is perfect...

^This

Players seem to have an identity crisis.  They want to be ninjas, then they want run and gun gameplay.

 

 

Ninja's aren't from what I can remember, run and gunners.

 

This is a hybrid.  A cover system would be fine.  You don't just run through the entire game.  There are many rooms where you stop and fight.  There are two missions where you're stuck in a room and you don't run at all, except in circles to avoid fire.

 

 

Sure wish I had that sticky cover....

Edited August 6, 2013 by Bakercompany86

[Angius]

And imagine parkouring, when your frame decides to hug the wall...
I said that once, I can sa that twice. Your agility and mobility is your best cover.

[RealityMachina]

 

Ninja's aren't from what I can remember, run and gunners.

You're confusing RL!ninjas with popular culture ninjas.

 

Judging from the popularity of games like Ninja Gaiden or Metal Gear Revegenance, people like playing as the latter, not the former. The latter can perfectly include run n gun gameplay while real life ninjas, for obvious reasons, can't.

[Aspari]

Enemy AI is too stupid for any smart idea to come by. This means that Stealth is impossible since once the enemy had a glance of you he will know where you are with pin-point precision and will never lose your exact location. (Because DE can't program the enemy to do any differently)

 

And they are pretty anal retentive about setting any sort of smart cover system, expecting us to take "soft cover" which just blows for third person shooter.

 

They won't stop promising you that it will get better though...

+1

 

The reason for that is because Warframe's AI comes directly from The Darkness 2. Since The Darkness 2 is very linear, that type of AI worked. Here, it doesn't. 

[Aspari]

You're confusing RL!ninjas with popular culture ninjas.

 

Judging from the popularity of games like Ninja Gaiden or Metal Gear Revegenance, people like playing as the latter, not the former. The latter can perfectly include run n gun gameplay while real life ninjas, for obvious reasons, can't.

So what about Tenchu ninjas? They're all about stealth first and confrontation only when necessary and if I found the right sources on real ninjas Tenchu ninjas seem to align themselves more with the former and not the latter.

[JamesSergon]

Better reactive AI, while always a good thing, isn't the best time effort/return to bring more tactical plays.

 

Better is to have enemy behaviors/abilities/weapon sets that forces the player to display skill, not player behaviors/abilities/weapon sets that forces the AI to react and behave accordingly.

[MJ12]

So what about Tenchu ninjas? They're all about stealth first and confrontation only when necessary and if I found the right sources on real ninjas Tenchu ninjas seem to align themselves more with the former and not the latter.

 

Multiplayer co-op game with pubbies + Stealth Game = Oh God This Is The Worst Idea Ever.

 

I've played the Metal Gear series, Splinter Cell, and Crysis. Let me just say that if I had to bring pubbies around I would probably summarily execute most of my co-op partners for high treason long before the enemy got them.

[Aspari]

Multiplayer co-op game with pubbies + Stealth Game = Oh God This Is The Worst Idea Ever.

 

I've played the Metal Gear series, Splinter Cell, and Crysis. Let me just say that if I had to bring pubbies around I would probably summarily execute most of my co-op partners for high treason long before the enemy got them.

So can we agree that Ash is really the only Warframe that's anything remotely ninja?

[RealityMachina]

So what about Tenchu ninjas? They're all about stealth first and confrontation only when necessary and if I found the right sources on real ninjas Tenchu ninjas seem to align themselves more with the former and not the latter.

Well, the thing is that from reading the overview of the Tenchu series...not really?

 

Real life ninjas were basically...well, spies. And assassins. So they would disguise themselves as common folk to get closer to their target and such. Tenchu still conforms to popular culture stereotypes, just using different styles of gameplay.

 

Now, I will admit that doesn't mean there aren't people who like playing as stealth oriented ninjas (otherwise games like Tenchu or Mark of the Ninja wouldn't be profitable), but, then well, you run into the problem of people who want to do things along the line of this:

want to play the same game with people who want to do things along the line of this:

[Aspari]

Well, the thing is that from reading the overview of the Tenchu series...not really?

 

Real life ninjas were basically...well, spies. And assassins. So they would disguise themselves as common folk to get closer to their target and such. Tenchu still conforms to popular culture stereotypes, just using different styles of gameplay.

 

Now, I will admit that doesn't mean there aren't people who like playing as stealth oriented ninjas (otherwise games like Tenchu or Mark of the Ninja wouldn't be profitable), but, then well, you run into the problem of people who want to do things along the line of this:

want to play the same game with people who want to do things along the line of this:

Well, if that's the case wouldn't every assassin from the Assassin's Creed games be better ninjas than the Tenno? Because they're godly fighters as well as silent, stealthy assassins. The Tenno really aren't unless it's Ash or Loki.

[RealityMachina]

Well, if that's the case wouldn't every assassin from the Assassin's Creed games be better ninjas than the Tenno? Because they're godly fighters as well as silent, stealthy assassins. The Tenno really aren't unless it's Ash or Loki.

Yeeeeeep.

 

Popular culture isn't exactly well known for getting things right. :p

[Kyte]

Either way we don't play ninjas, we play Badass Space Ninjas with parkouring and running and gunning and superpowers and whatnot. The promotional materials sure sell it that way, at least.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Kyte

[Bakercompany86]

And imagine parkouring, when your frame decides to hug the wall...

I said that once, I can sa that twice. Your agility and mobility is your best cover.

 

 

No no no.  NOT AUTO COVER.  I hate that crap (the stuff used in RE:Operation Raccoon City).  It's garbage.

 

 

It must be contextual and only activated with a button push.  So you enter cover when you want to, not when the game wants you to.

 

That way people who never wanted to use cover, don't have to.  And they can be perfectly happy getting shot in the face while running and dodging thanks to the AI's sharpshooter accuracy at extreme range with full auto weapons.