about chroma

[Tamas123]

what will happen after 2018 update with chroma? i need full description. (answer)

[Railgun]

you can read information on it here

[xXDeadsinxX]

Two of Chroma’s abilities are getting changed. Vex Armor and Spectral Scream are getting tweaked. You can read the in-depth changes more at.

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by xXDeadsinxX

[Kalvorax]

On 2/2/2018 at 11:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

CHROMA

Spectral Scream - Removed walk speed and jump restrictions You can now freely move while this is active! Damage output is now also affected by the Vex Armor's Fury bonus!
 

Vex Armor - Fixed a longstanding issue with number calculation being multiplicative. Boosts now apply before upgrades instead of after, making the ability consistent with all other damage boosting abilities. Overshields are now considered for Vex Armor. Chroma's Vex Armor remains one of the top performing damage-multipliers in the game - and it's now an aura! Instead of just being focused on Chroma, it can now benefit allies in range.


The only change that comes with a full history lesson!

Fixed an issue where Chroma would deal no damage with Vex Armor active. While this may sound like a simple fix, if you're a Chroma user please read on!
Solving Vex Armor actually takes as back to Chroma's beginning. On original power creation, we used some less-than-ideal calculation methods to create Scorn and Fury's effects. If you are an avid Chroma user, you probably know the power maximizing this ability brings. At some point in Chroma's future we will need to revisit and use ideal methods for his Abilities; we will inform you well in advance when Chroma is under review.”

 

Chroma is a complex frame that players usually acquire further on in their Tenno journey. As referenced above, much of that complexity stems from some questionable back-end calculations, which caused Vex Armor to calculate damage boosts AFTER upgrades instead of before. Although the UI may indicate that damage/armor is buffed by a few hundred percent, the actual buff amounts would be much higher. Furthermore, compound elements would effectively be multiplied twice for Fury’s damage boosting, leading to some ludicrous results.

Back in April 2017, extreme damage boosting was not really a problem, so we left the ability as is. However, the Plains of Eidolon update marked a shift in community mindset by introducing Teralysts - featuring multiple large health pools on each weakpoint, damage boosting abilities became an important part of efficient hunting teams. While other damage boosting options require more team coordination, a single self-damaging Chroma could bypass the weakpoint damaging portion of the fight in an instant. At its simplest, we do not want our Eidolons one-shotted.

Chroma’s usage was already somewhat narrow, so we want him to remain a competitive option for Teralyst damage boosting, while also improving other parts of his kit. Although the magnitude of his boost will be lowered, it will still be one of the strongest boosting abilities in the game, and both damage/armor increases will now apply to all teammates in a nearby radius. Furthermore, Spectral Scream without movement restrictions allows players to be the aimgliding, fire-breathing dragon they’ve always dreamed of! We will continue to observe how these changes affect Chroma (and the Teralyst hunting squads) in the coming weeks, and consider further tweaks if needed.

 

taken DIRECTLY from the dev workshop thread that answers your question....

edit: dang you ninja's are fast :P

Edited February 5, 2018 by Kalvorax

[Fallic]

In short...

If you like Chroma now, you'll probably still like him.

If you're like me and think the #2 and #3 are BS, annoying, and not worth beautiful potatoes, then you'll probably dislike him.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

What I would like is a explanation for his current damage calculation method, and what it will be changing to. Then I can actually know if he will still be good.

For instance, they say that it currently 'Calculates damage boosts after mods, not before', but I thought that was what all damage buff abilities did: Take the current, modded damage output of your weapon and multiply it times the buff amount. If they are changing it to calculate before mods, does that mean a 100 base damage weapon with 120% damage in elementals used by a 300% damage buff Chroma will deal (100+(100*1.2))*3 damage, or ((100)*3)*1.2 damage, or (100+(100*1.2)+(100*(3-1))) damage?

To put that in generic formula terms, I want to know if any of these formulas:

1. (B+(B*M))*D
2. (B*D)*M
3. B+(B*M)+((B*D)-B)

are correct, where 'B'=base damage, 'M'=the total percentage of all elementals, and 'D'=Chroma's damage buff.

As far as I can tell right now, the current calculation goes something like (B*D+(B*M₁*D)+(B*M₂*D)+..., which leads to the completely crazy numbers we have now.

I know they are getting rid of the ridiculous math when calculating combined elementals, which is fine, because that was bad math in the first place. But I want to know what the new calculations are, so I can tell whether or not it will be useful.

If a 300% buff just gives us an extra 2x base damage added on at the end, it will be completely useless. If it multiplies our current damage by 3, it will be fine, and if it gives us 3x base damage to mod off of, it will be truly useful as a damage buff.

And yes, I know you can get much higher that 300%, I just used that number to make the math easier to understand.

[TeCoolTenno]

14 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

What I would like is a explanation for his current damage calculation method, and what it will be changing to. Then I can actually know if he will still be good.

For instance, they say that it currently 'Calculates damage boosts after mods, not before', but I thought that was what all damage buff abilities did: Take the current, modded damage output of your weapon and multiply it times the buff amount. If they are changing it to calculate before mods, does that mean a 100 base damage weapon with 120% damage in elementals used by a 300% damage buff Chroma will deal (100+(100*1.2))*3 damage, or ((100)*3)*1.2 damage, or (100+(100*1.2)+(100*(3-1))) damage?

To put that in generic formula terms, I want to know if any of these formulas:

1. (B+(B*M))*D
2. (B*D)*M
3. B+(B*M)+((B*D)-B)

are correct, where 'B'=base damage, 'M'=the total percentage of all elementals, and 'D'=Chroma's damage buff.

As far as I can tell right now, the current calculation goes something like (B*D+(B*M₁*D)+(B*M₂*D)+..., which leads to the completely crazy numbers we have now.

I know they are getting rid of the ridiculous math when calculating combined elementals, which is fine, because that was bad math in the first place. But I want to know what the new calculations are, so I can tell whether or not it will be useful.

If a 300% buff just gives us an extra 2x base damage added on at the end, it will be completely useless. If it multiplies our current damage by 3, it will be fine, and if it gives us 3x base damage to mod off of, it will be truly useful as a damage buff.

And yes, I know you can get much higher that 300%, I just used that number to make the math easier to understand.

I think it's going to be changed from 1, to 2

 

EDIT: Or maybe

From [ B+B*S (IPS dmg) + (B+B*S)*M (elemental dmg) ] * D

to B+B*(D+S) (IPS dmg) + (B+B*(D+S))*M (elemental dmg) 

where S is your base damage mod (Serration).

either way the change is a painful nerf, hence the B D S M

 

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by TeCoolTenno

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

1 minute ago, TeCoolTenno said:

I think it's going to be changed from 1, to 2

That can't be right, because that would increase damage, not decrease it.

Method 1, using my stated test values: (100+(100*1.2))*3 = 660

Method 2, using the same values: ((100)*3)*1.2 = 660

Note that my values do not include Serration (or other base damage mods), however. The would go from 150% (at rank 9) of 100 to 150% of 300, causing much bigger increases in everything else. If you want evidence of this, just try adding Covert Lethality to a dagger, and see how everything is calculated (easiest on the Karyst, due to only having one damage type at base). By itself, CL adds 100 damage, for a total of 150. Primed Pressure Point (R9) adds 150% of base damage, and by itself increases damage to 125. Both together give us 375 damage, meaning it is additive before mods. If Chroma's buff is multiplicative of base before mods, it will be massive, if it additive percentage with base damage mods, it will still be good, and if it multiplicative with base damage after mods it will be worthless. However, if it multiplicative with total damage after mods it will be like any other damage buff, which is what I think they are going for. I just want to know for sure, and they haven't told us anywhere from what I can tell.

 

[TeCoolTenno]

11 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

That can't be right, because that would increase damage, not decrease it.

Method 1, using my stated test values: (100+(100*1.2))*3 = 660

Method 2, using the same values: ((100)*3)*1.2 = 660

Note that my values do not include Serration (or other base damage mods), however. The would go from 150% (at rank 9) of 100 to 150% of 300, causing much bigger increases in everything else. If you want evidence of this, just try adding Covert Lethality to a dagger, and see how everything is calculated (easiest on the Karyst, due to only having one damage type at base). By itself, CL adds 100 damage, for a total of 150. Primed Pressure Point (R9) adds 150% of base damage, and by itself increases damage to 125. Both together give us 375 damage, meaning it is additive before mods. If Chroma's buff is multiplicative of base before mods, it will be massive, if it additive percentage with base damage mods, it will still be good, and if it multiplicative with base damage after mods it will be worthless. However, if it multiplicative with total damage after mods it will be like any other damage buff, which is what I think they are going for. I just want to know for sure, and they haven't told us anywhere from what I can tell.

 

Lets assume +100% dmg on serration, and for simplicity 100% elemental mods as well. Chroma buff is +200% (or *300%)

old: 100+100*100% = 200 base dmg, + 200*100%= 200 elemental dmg = 400. 400*300%=1200 damage total

new: 100+100*(100%+200%) = 400 base dmg, + 400*100% = 400 elemental dmg = 800 damage total

Edited February 5, 2018 by TeCoolTenno

[Ailyene]

His current formula is multiplicative after all mods like every other damage buffing ability (except Octavia's Amp and Mesa's Shooting Gallery) but it has a glitch where it double dips for every element and triple dips for every combined element resulting in really silly numbers.

My understanding is that its changing to the same formula as Amp and Shooting Gallery which give their buffs as additional base damage before all other calculations.  Acting like another Serration/Hornet Strike/ect stacking additively with them. 

This will cause it to scale pretty badly with highly modded weapons, but it should probably still be around the same boost as Rhino's Roar for highly modded weapons except for weapons with +base damage Rivens where it will perform worse.

You can probably practically test how the new formula will work through Amp and Shooting Gallery.

 

Update:

Oh and this effects his armor calculations too.

Current formula for Chroma Armor (when both Cold Elemental Ward and Vex Armor are active) =

(3.5 * Pwr Str %) * [350 (1 + Mod% + (1.5 * Pwr Str %))]

Currently 348% Power Strength with Steel Fiber gets him 31,358 armor.

 

New formula for Chroma Armor (when both Cold Elemental Ward and Vex Armor are active) =

[350 (1 + Mod% + (1.5 * Pwr Str %) + (3.5 * Pwr Str %)]

348% Power Strength with Steel Fiber will get him 6,825 armor.  Reduces his Effective HP to ~1/4th of current numbers.

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Ailyene
Minor typo

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

41 minutes ago, TeCoolTenno said:

Lets assume +100% dmg on serration, and for simplicity 100% elemental mods as well. Chroma buff is +200% (or *300%)

old: 100+100*100% = 200 base dmg, + 200*100%= 200 elemental dmg = 400. 400*300%=1200 damage total

new: 100+100*(100%+200%) = 400 base dmg, + 400*100% = 400 elemental dmg = 800 damage total

Your first example is multiplicative with total damage after mods, and the second is additive percentage with base damage mods. The first one is what I think it should be, but fixed so that it doesn't calculate after every damage mod (base or elemental) as it does now.

The second one is what they will most likely make it, as it is the lowest damage option that isn't completely useless.

Let's look at (what I think is) current calculation for a far more complicated weapon: the Lanka.

The Lanka has a combined element for base damage, making it show weird numbers with Vex Armor.

The current bugged calculation should be, if 'M₁' is a combined element (even radiation) and 'S' = Serration, or any similar mod:

(B*S*D*D*D)+((B*S*D*D*D)*(M₁*D*D))

Which obviously has a few too many 'D's in it. This, combined with crits, is how we were doing 1,000,000+ damage per shot to a Teralyst.

Now, if they make it:

((B*S)+((B*S)*M₁))*D

it would have plenty of damage, but not be overpowered. If they make it:

(B*S*D)+(B*S*D)*M₁

Then it will be even more powerful, but still not overpowered. If they make it:

(B*(S+D))+(B*(S+D))*M₁

Then it will be somewhat underwhelming, but still usable. However, if they make it:

(B*S)+(B*S)*M₁+(B*D)

Then it will be dogcrap.

Those are the 4 ways that I can see them going, and what I can tell of the original calculation. If anyone knows for sure what the original calculation was, please spell it out for me.

Edited February 5, 2018 by -AoN-CanoLathra-

[Ailyene]

Looking at the stream more closely it looks like they changed the Fury buff value from +175% to +275% to make up for the formula change which I didn't notice before.

Octavia's Amp (+200%) loses slightly against Roar at around +330% base damage from Serration/Heavy Caliber so with a base buff at +275% Chroma would be slightly ahead of Rhino's Roar for all but +base damage rivens.

He will add +1026% Base Damage at maximum Fury/Power Strength (Scorn remains the same from what I can see).  At maximum power strength Octavia's is +746% Base Damage and Rhino's is 2.865x off final modded damage for comparison.

The damage formula change would probably encourage dropping extra +base damage mods like Heavy Caliber/Spoiled Strike for more elements/multi-shot/ect to maximize his Fury.

With Serration only: Fury is 70% stronger than Roar, this is also close to how it will effect Melee/Secondaries that have fewer +Base Damage mods.

Spoiler

 

Most Likely New Fury:
(B*(S+D))+(B*(S+D))*M1

100*(1+1.65+10.26)+100*(1+1.65+10.26)*(1+1.2+1.2)

5680.4

Rhino's Roar:
((B*S)+((B*S)*M1))*D

((100*(1+1.65))+((100*(1+1.65))*(1+1.2+1.2)))*(1+1.865)

3340.59

 

With Serration + Heavy Caliber:  Fury is only 18% stronger than Roar in this example due to diminishing returns.

Spoiler

 

Most Likely New Fury:
(B*(S+D))+(B*(S+D))*M1

100*(1+1.65+1.65+10.26)+100*(1+1.65+1.65+10.26)*(1+1.2+1.2)

6406.4

Rhino's Roar:
((B*S)+((B*S)*M1))*D

((100*(1+1.65+1.65))+((100*(1+1.65+1.65))*(1+1.2+1.2)))*(1+1.865)

5420.58

 

 

Other implications of the formula changes are that he will generally gain an additional mod slot due to Steel Fiber being marginalized significantly at maximized power strength, it will add less than 1/15th of his final armor numbers.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Ailyene
Minor typo

[TeCoolTenno]

10 hours ago, Ailyene said:

 

Update:

Oh and this effects his armor calculations too.

Current formula for Chroma Armor (when both Cold Elemental Ward and Vex Armor are active) =

(3.5 * Pwr Str %) * [350 (1 + Mod% + (1.5 * Pwr Str %))]

Currently 348% Power Strength with Steel Fiber gets him 31,358 armor.

 

New formula for Chroma Armor (when both Cold Elemental Ward and Vex Armor are active) =

[350 (1 + Mod% + (1.5 * Pwr Str %) + (3.5 * Pwr Str %)]

348% Power Strength with Steel Fiber will get him 6,825 armor.  Reduces his Effective HP to ~1/4th of current numbers.

 

I guess it lowers the gap between cold chromas and other elements, and due to its inefficient scaling with steel fiber it might encourage builds that go for a more squishy full range, duration and power strength build? But really the other elements should've been buffed.

 

with this little survivability, it's already hard for me as a 0 forma chroma without rare mods like life strike to even have this frame usable as a tank. Too much of a time sink when I can just use my 0 forma Ivara with the basics like augur message, continuity and one or two nightmare mods. If I pick him up again, I'll be playing him to spam buffs in a squad and CC enemies with spectral scream, not to actually tank for any meaningful amount of time

Edited February 6, 2018 by TeCoolTenno