Why Chroma will never be tanky again: (UPDATED TO CONTAIN THE BEST BALANCING IDEAS IN THE FIRST POST)

[cursedmoon13]

 

9 hours ago, xX_Immortal_Xx said:

 -snip-

I think I agree with all of what you said. Moving on.

25 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

i dont get why its bad that chroma had alot of ehp? i mean he is a hard to aquire late game frame. let him be tanky. atm he is worse than rhino. one of the earliest frames in game.

my suggestion:

bring back the old formula but make the buff split with teammates. so if all teammates are in reach every body is getting a fourth of the buff.

as a result the team would get similar results to what its now but chroma can still handle stuff if going alone.

The problem was that it was all he had, and not, "it was all he had so he should get it back", but that he should have more than just the one or two, "I have more EHP than anyone who doesn't have a straight up not-die mechanic." I basically said it before, and I think I'll say it again because it bears repeating: with how versatile Chroma's design looks on paper, it is a shame, nay, a crime, that so much of it is so underwhelming in practice that he's been reduced to about two builds, which I believe are about the same build, just with different energy colors. Even worse may be that his big ability, the one everything hinges on, is the only ability that does not use the ability he was seemingly designed around.

Also no, that just encourages Chroma (players) to continue being selfish, like the one guy who said somewhere on the forums, something to the effect of, "I don't like the aura, because my teammates complain they're not getting it, but of course I'm running Narrow Minded. Duh."

Instead, I think the buff should be as it is now, except Chroma gets it stacked again for each ally he shares his buff with, which promotes more thought in modding, and now Chroma is the one wanting to give everyone else a hug. As a balancing factor, so people who must play solo aren't left SoL, maybe Chroma could get a half stack for each empty "slot" in the party. Half so selfish Chromas don't suddenly decide they're better off playing alone.

Oh, and before anyone decides to post a screenshot of my profile, I too likely have 0.0% playtime with Chroma, because, while I really wanted him when I started, it took so long to get him, and when I finally did I realized, "wait, so the cool abilities are all terrible, and the good ones are 'watch a timer to keep pressing a button to stay nearly immortal'? No thanks." So I tried various things, decided he wasn't for me, and let him sit in my arsenal. On a related note, similar things happened with Limbo and Zephyr, but after their reworks I love them. Atlas went the opposite direction, though.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 2/10/2018 at 9:43 AM, Trichouette said:

I think it's fine.

He didn't lose THAT MUCH tankyness and people are making a mess about not such a big issue.

Chroma was overkill, you didn't need to be that tanky in order to do anything.

 

He lost much more tankiness than he deserves, and no it was not overkill. The only place it is overkill is in lower level missions. If that's your domain, then fine, for you, the chrange doesn't make a difference, but for us players that go beyond level 100, it's a massive nerf that has made him rather useless.

On 2/10/2018 at 9:54 AM, Church002 said:

Steel Fiber and Vex armor was never meant to be multiplied. and Chroma was never supposed to be a better tank than Rhino. Soooo.....

Believe me when I say this that Rhino is my favorite and rhino was already tankier than Chroma before the change, but the fact that Rhino is now basically a direct upgrade to him is a crime. The fact that the second warframe in the game you get is already better than a quest only frame is troubling. There should be pros and cons to each. Now I will agree that Rhino should be tankier than chroma, but Mesa. Trinity, Mirage, Inaros, Nidus, and even Nekros shouldn't be tankier than Chroma, but right now, the only frame that is considered tanky that is below Chroma is Oberon, and he has a plethora of other uses like status immunity, damage buff, team heal and armor buff (Better than chroma's), and massive CC. Chroma has barely any of these things.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb cursedmoon13:

 

I think I agree with all of what you said. Moving on.

The problem was that it was all he had, and not, "it was all he had so he should get it back", but that he should have more than just the one or two, "I have more EHP than anyone who doesn't have a straight up not-die mechanic." I basically said it before, and I think I'll say it again because it bears repeating: with how versatile Chroma's design looks on paper, it is a shame, nay, a crime, that so much of it is so underwhelming in practice that he's been reduced to about two builds, which I believe are about the same build, just with different energy colors. Even worse may be that his big ability, the one everything hinges on, is the only ability that does not use the ability he was seemingly designed around.

Also no, that just encourages Chroma (players) to continue being selfish, like the one guy who said somewhere on the forums, something to the effect of, "I don't like the aura, because my teammates complain they're not getting it, but of course I'm running Narrow Minded. Duh."

Instead, I think the buff should be as it is now, except Chroma gets it stacked again for each ally he shares his buff with, which promotes more thought in modding, and now Chroma is the one wanting to give everyone else a hug. As a balancing factor, so people who must play solo aren't left SoL, maybe Chroma could get a half stack for each empty "slot" in the party. Half so selfish Chromas don't suddenly decide they're better off playing alone.

Oh, and before anyone decides to post a screenshot of my profile, I too likely have 0.0% playtime with Chroma, because, while I really wanted him when I started, it took so long to get him, and when I finally did I realized, "wait, so the cool abilities are all terrible, and the good ones are 'watch a timer to keep pressing a button to stay nearly immortal'? No thanks." So I tried various things, decided he wasn't for me, and let him sit in my arsenal. On a related note, similar things happened with Limbo and Zephyr, but after their reworks I love them. Atlas went the opposite direction, though.

yeah i can understand you. it is stupid to have a kit that is bad except one ability that makes it strong.

but my idea would be to concentrate on the tankyness.

for example: make spectral scream attracting enemies to chroma. so chroma can take the dmg for the team. thats a passive buff and chroma would be instantly more usefull in defense missions. 

in my opinion it is not bad to have a real tank in the game that actually protects the team by his own body.

[DeadlyCreation]

Am 10.2.2018 um 15:54 schrieb Church002:

Steel Fiber and Vex armor was never meant to be multiplied. and Chroma was never supposed to be a better tank than Rhino. Soooo.....

it was allways meant to be multiplied. 

[Walkampf]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

but my idea would be to concentrate on the tankyness.

for example: make spectral scream attracting enemies to chroma. so chroma can take the dmg for the team. thats a passive buff and chroma would be instantly more usefull in defense missions. 

in my opinion it is not bad to have a real tank in the game that actually protects the team by his own body.

Already ingame, nobody is making use of it.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian_Derision

Just as nobody is using 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Titanic_Rumbler

Taunt effect are hardly working in Warframes meta.

vor 4 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

it was allways meant to be multiplied. 

Ehm... no... that's the reason why they changed(or more acuratly 'fixed') it...

[Lead_Codpiece]

Almost all chroma users build him with narrowminded so “buffs whole team” is not the case imo

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Walkampf:

Already ingame, nobody is making use of it.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian_Derision

Just as nobody is using 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Titanic_Rumbler

Taunt effect are hardly working in Warframes meta.

Ehm... no... that's the reason why they changed(or more acuratly 'fixed') it...

do you have proof that it was meant to be additive?

and for the atlas augment. a reasln why it was so unpolular is because: 1. you have to sacrifice one mod. 2. atlas was not good before the change (you can argue if he is now)

 

for examole i love using titanias taunt ability. its great CC that cocers a huge area. especially on the plains it works really good. in my opinion taunt is working and is coming even stronger with the open landscapes

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Lead_Codpiece:

Almost all chroma users build him with narrowminded so “buffs whole team” is not the case imo

since his ability is recastable now a prime continuity is enough. well atleast for me it is working. so i stay at 100% range. still 18m is nothing in a game where movement is key. even on hydron my teammates were out of my buff area 80% of the time. and thats a small &#! map

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb DeadlyCreation:

do you have proof that it was meant to be additive?

do you have proof that it was meant to be multiplicative?

[Lead_Codpiece]

5 минут назад, DeadlyCreation сказал:

since his ability is recastable now a prime continuity is enough. well atleast for me it is working. so i stay at 100% range. still 18m is nothing in a game where movement is key. even on hydron my teammates were out of my buff area 80% of the time. and thats a small &#! map

I guess you use low strength build then, which has become even more pointeless since the nerf

Edited February 12, 2018 by Lead_Codpiece

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

do you have proof that it was meant to be multiplicative?

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vex_Armor there u go

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Lead_Codpiece:

I guess you use low strength build then, which has become even more pointeless since the nerf

round about 330% power strength. so if you call that low.. then yes. still we shouldnt argue about that. thats not the point. we all want the armor buff back  :-)

[Walkampf]

Gerade eben schrieb DeadlyCreation:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vex_Armor there u go

Ahahahaha. you really are as dumb as you act, aren't you?

The wiki is made by fans, there is nothing official about any information in there. xD

You are really pathetic if you can't even understand that.

 

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

Ahahahaha. you really are as dumb as you act, aren't you?

The wiki is made by fans, there is nothing official about any information in there. xD

You are really pathetic if you can't even understand that.

 

thanks for the update. well i gues you could say that both were unintended but what made chroma too good was the exploit that effected fury. that also what DE was talking about the past Dev Streams. DE wanted to change chrlma sl he doesnt oneshot eidolons. so there is no reason to take away his only survivability ability

[Lead_Codpiece]

18 минут назад, DeadlyCreation сказал:

since his ability is recastable now a prime continuity is enough. well atleast for me it is working. so i stay at 100% range. still 18m is nothing in a game where movement is key. even on hydron my teammates were out of my buff area 80% of the time. and thats a small &#! map

Yes, that “team buffer” thing doesn’t make any sence.

[Walkampf]

Gerade eben schrieb DeadlyCreation:

thanks for the update. well i gues you could say that both were unintended but what made chroma too good was the exploit that effected fury. that also what DE was talking about the past Dev Streams. DE wanted to change chrlma sl he doesnt oneshot eidolons. so there is no reason to take away his only survivability ability

Yes, it was, as stated here.

See, how they are actually naming both buffs. Both featured the very same mathematical mistake. Why whould one half of the issue be unintended, while the exact same issue on the other half whould be intended?

Your argument doesn't even make sense.

Spoiler

 

 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

14 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Ahahahaha. you really are as dumb as you act, aren't you?

The wiki is made by fans, there is nothing official about any information in there. xD

You are really pathetic if you can't even understand that.

 

This is no cause of name calling and assumptions, and such actions are not productive to this thread. You've proven a statement incorrect, but you have not invalidated the reason for this topic itself, which is chroma's tankiness. The Wiki was made by fans, and yes, DE stated that their calculations were not intended, but results of this were not important. As it stands now, you need facts to make a side. Facts show that Chroma now has the least EHp of all the tanks, baring Oberon Prime, who is not entirely considered a tank at all. Whether or not Chroma's armor buff was a bug doesn't invalidate its results, which were forgiving. Many bugs have remained in the game due to the fact that they are actually good. The Heavy Blade Deluxe Skin with the Zenistar being the most recent and prominent example of this. So please, rather than speaking of intent, speak of facts. Fact were that Chroma's damage buff was deamed too strong, so it was changed. Personal feelings aside, this is fine. Chroma's armor buff was perfectly fine and not too strong. The change was due to coding, not intent, and the results were less than fair. This means a change is in order.

Edited February 12, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb Walkampf:

Yes, it was, as stated here.

See, how they are actually naming both buffs. Both featured the very same mathematical mistake. Why whould one half of the issue be unintended, while the exact same issue on the other half whould be intended?

Your argument doesn't even make sense.

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in my understand. the mathmetical mistake is the double and triple dipping that fury creates with elemental combos. because being a multiplier us not a hard mathmatical task and shouldnt cause problems. the problems were caused by the interaction with elemental mods.

[2old4gamez]

On 10/02/2018 at 2:16 PM, DeadlyCreation said:

everyone feels different about the DMG nerf

Fix.

[Lead_Codpiece]

Только что, 2old4gamez сказал:

Fix.

How many years that “bug” was in the game? It’s obviously a nerf.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb 2old4gamez:

Fix.

thanks. changed it. 

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Lead_Codpiece:

Yes, that “team buffer” thing doesn’t make any sence.

Actually, Chroma was designed with both, western dragons, as well as eastern dragons, in mind.

While western dragons are synonimous with power and horting treasures, their eastern brothers are actually a sign of bringing luck and prosperity to people. Hence he was considered to be team-buffer from the very beginning of his development.

This is also represented in his deluxe skin. It features a symbol, which some really uneducated people in this forum thought to be Nazi germanys swastika.

The actual symbol, that is displayed however is actually a symbol for 'luck' featured in several eastern world religions, that are predating the Nazis for thousands of years.

[Koldraxon-732]

11 hours ago, DeadlyCreation said:

 

I was thinking that Chroma's buff affects himself the most. Let me explain.
1: The team buff effect remains unchanged and will not be getting buffed.
2: The armor self-buff from Vex Armor would be at half original values (pre U22.12) when Chroma's pelt is equipped.
3: The damage self-buff from Vex Armor would be at original values (pre U22.12) for abilities, but at half original values for weapons.

Alternatively, DE should allow Chroma's Vex Armor to scale infinitely on himself, which would make sustaining the ability more sensible.

Chroma by design was meant to be able to survive when all else was in ruin. Now he is merely a fashionframe with credit farming abilities.

DE should do something about this as this nerf has impacted him as hard if not harder than the one to Gara's vitrify wall.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Koldraxon-732
Added alternative proposition.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Just now, Lead_Codpiece said:

How many years that “bug” was in the game? It’s obviously a nerf.

I don't believe it was left there willingly. I believe DE wanted a fair fix of this, but could not figure out how to do it. They still probably haven't figured it out, but due to the eidolon's they deemed that they had to do SOMETHING to stop the chroma 1-sho, so he got the nerf hammer. One bad coding problem to another.

[Walkampf]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

in my understand. the mathmetical mistake is the double and triple dipping that fury creates with elemental combos. because being a multiplier us not a hard mathmatical task and shouldnt cause problems. the problems were caused by the interaction with elemental mods.

Good god...

you really need people to explain you every. little. detail.... don't you?

The problem is, that elemental mods were multiplied twice,

just as steelfiber...