Vex Armor upd 22.12.0

[--SlayerPrime--]

22 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

and they just created rhino 0.5. either they make the best 1 and or 4 in game to make something out of him or give him back his former strength. because how he is rught now is just not acceptable

I'm all for the 1 and 4, his 4 has so much potential.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Bobman111:

I say that because he's a better team player now, instead of a selfish character.

And btw, you link my profile without my consent.

yeah he might be a better teamplayer but still S#&$ty. if yiu want to protect your team take trinity. if you want to buff with dmg take rhino.

you know why oberon is so unpopular? because he can do a bunch of things but nothing really good. now chroma is the same.

they took an awesome solo frame and turned him into a trash teamplayer and even worse solo frame. 

chroma was a frame you take when u dont want to play with other people and just want to finish your mission really quick. and believe it or not. that happens more often then u think

[Azamagon]

7 hours ago, Dragazer said:

In regards to Chroma, DE seriously messed up his damage and armor portion: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/919080-vex-armor-upd-22120/
Not many people know this, the reason Chroma's damage was so high was not because it multiplied with mods, but because Vex Armor actually double dipped its effects on weapons modded for dual elemental combos. To makes things worse on weapons that already have a dual elemental innate as its base damage, (Ogris, Penta, Arca Plasmor) vex armor would triple dip its effects. Here are the calculations someone did on these effects here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/6o9l3w/some_more_math_behind_chromas_vex_armor_and_how/

As you can see here with max power strength, instead of the expected 6.23x dmg increase, you instead get a 242x damage multiplier on weapons with an innate dual element as its base damage, with weapons modded for dual elementals it is instead a 39x dmg multiplier.

We've seen the power of double/triple dipping already when it happened to stealth gas/slash procs and now we are (or were) seeing it again. This is the sole source of people casually one shotting Eidolon limbs Not the fact that Vex armor multiplied with mods. Had Vex armor multiplied dmg by the proper 6.23x multiplier, we would not be seeing so many people one-shotting so easily

From the first forum link I posted, You can see someone do some tests with Rhino roar and current vex armor. With the same increase Vex armor is doing noticeably less dmg than roar is.

This is because roar is multiplied with mods, while vex armor is now only additive. This problem becomes very apparent as you add more base damage from primed mods, heavy caliber, and riven mods.

Why is this an issue? You see with Chroma, damage and tankiness is literally the only 2 things he has going for him. His 1 was and still is terrible, 4 is still trash tier, 2 was indirectly nerfed by his 3 nerf, and as of right now 3 is basically gutted from both the armor and dmg aspect. He has absolutely zero crowd control at all, and zero ways to counter crowd control.

Inb4 you ask why Chroma should deal more dmg with his Vex armor:

Rhino is fine at where he is at. his Iron skin, is a great buffer and makes him cc immune, Charge makes him invulnerable for the duration, and his Roar in its current state is great and much better than Chroma as of now. It is able to buff team ability dmg (Chroma buff is limited to weapon only) along with weapons, it has a much wider radius and can be cast once and teammates receive benefits after moving away (Chroma's vex armor is an aura, squad must stay together for full duration.) and like I mention b4 it buffs damage much better once mods are accounted for. And then to top it off, stomp is undisputed one of the best cc in the game, a massive room wide radius once modded for that can completely shut down enemies. Like I mentioned b4 Chroma's only saving grace was his vex armor, with that clearly nerfed into the ground, he's got no legs left to stand on compared to other frames in both tankiness and dmg.

The part that irritates me the most is DE's reasoning for this. They state they want to change his formula to an additive one because apparently that is the way other dmg buffs are calculated. That is total bogus and you or anyone who actually plays this game knows it.

There are actually very few other abilities that work on Base Damage rather than Modded Damage in the game, Octavia's Amp and Mesa's Shooting Gallery are the only two I can think of that use the formula they changed Chroma's to.

Ember's Flash Accelerant, Saryn's Venom Dose, Frost's Freeze Force, Ember's Fireball Frenzy, Volt's Shock Trooper and Oberon's Smite infusion buffs go off of all mods minus Elemental Damage Mods.

Rhino's Roar, Mirage's Eclipse, Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, Ivara's Navigator, Ivara's Prowl, Volt's Electric Shield, Chroma's Old Vex Armor, Saryn's Toxic Lash, Nova AMD and MPrime and Banshee's Sonar go off of fully modded damage.

So to conclude, Vex armor multiplying with mods was not the source of its broken absurdity or one shotting Eidolon shenanigans. It was the fact it was bugged somehow to apply multiple times over itself in the presence of Dual elemental combos.

Please bring back the old formula ( (Base)x(Vex)x(Mods) just like almost everything else), but take away the double/triple dip this would make Chroma actually viable again in terms of tankiness and damage but not to the point of Eidolon Slayer levels of absurdity

^ This, this is the truth. They should've only fixed the double/triple dipping, nothing else.

He went from brokenly good (mainly at damage), to brokenly PATHETIC. While I never liked his playstyle, I'm still not so biased that I want him to be useless, all Warframes should be useful in some way.

Chroma is (imo) now the worst frame in the game.

Why? He has: Low to no CC, relatively bad survivability, quite poor damage-amping, low mobility. I just don't see what you would use him for now?

So, what would I suggest?

Spectral Scream:

• Give it lifesteal, giving it a use in his kit besides meager statusprocs.
• Make the augment work more like Nezha's Firewalker augment; Damage dealt by Spectral Scream is stored to be released as an elemental bolt upon releasing the ability. The elemental bolt needs better AoE too.
  EDIT: And the bolt leaves some lingering elemental residue in the AoE, causing damage to enemies who enter it. This damage ALSO has lifesteal.

Vex Armor:

• Buff up the Fury's damagebuff to be a multiplier again (instead of additive to basedamage mods), but tone down the numbers if needed (since it's an aura)
• Make Scorn's armor bonus be a flat amount of armor, so it has value for all allies.
• Make it give to Chroma (and Chroma alone), a multiplicative damage-resistance buff, which is unmoddable. Say, 70% or so?

Effigy

• Make the Effigy gain half of that armor which is taken from Chroma.
• Whenever Chroma has EW or VA up (doesn't matter if he casts them before or after Effigy is summoned), the Effigy gains the same bonuses. Further, make it have EW and VA as auras around it as well.
• Reduce energydrain to 5 per second (from the current 10).
• Bake in the augment to be a baseline effect, but without the damaging elemental trail. Then let the augment grant the elemental trail, along with also causing the Effigy to heal allies who are near it. Call it... Guardian Effigy?

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Azamagon
Added more stuff to Spectral Scream augment

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

3 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

^ This, this is the truth. They should've only fixed the double/triple dipping, nothing else.

He went from brokenly good (mainly at damage), to brokenly PATHETIC. While I never liked his playstyle, I'm still not so biased that I want him to be useless, all Warframes should be useful in some way.

Chroma is (imo) now the worst frame in the game.

Why? He has: Low to no CC, relatively bad survivability, quite poor damage-amping, low mobility. I just don't see what you would use him for now?

So, what would I suggest?

Spectral Scream:

• Give it lifesteal, giving it a use in his kit besides meager statusprocs.
• Make the augment work more like Nezha's Firewalker augment; Damage dealt by Spectral Scream is stored to be released as an elemental bolt upon releasing the ability. The elemental bolt needs better AoE too.

Vex Armor:

• Buff up the Fury's damagebuff to be a multiplier again (instead of additive to basedamage mods), but tone down the numbers if needed (since it's an aura)
• Make Scorn's armor bonus be a flat amount of armor, so it has value for all allies.
• Make it give to Chroma (and Chroma alone), a multiplicative damage-resistance buff, which is unmoddable. Say, 70% or so?

Effigy

• Make the Effigy gain half of that armor which is taken from Chroma.
• Whenever Chroma has EW or VA up (doesn't matter if he casts them before or after Effigy is summoned), the Effigy gains the same bonuses. Further, make it have EW and VA as auras around it as well.
• Reduce energydrain to 5 per second (from the current 10).
• Bake in the augment to be a baseline effect, but without the damaging elemental trail. Then let the augment grant the elemental trail, along with also causing the Effigy to heal allies who are near it. Call it... Guardian Effigy?

 

Still better than what PC has

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Azamagon:

^ This, this is the truth. They should've only fixed the double/triple dipping, nothing else.

He went from brokenly good (mainly at damage), to brokenly PATHETIC. While I never liked his playstyle, I'm still not so biased that I want him to be useless, all Warframes should be useful in some way.

Chroma is (imo) now the worst frame in the game.

Why? He has: Low to no CC, relatively bad survivability, quite poor damage-amping, low mobility. I just don't see what you would use him for now?

So, what would I suggest?

Spectral Scream:

• Give it lifesteal, giving it a use in his kit besides meager statusprocs.
• Make the augment work more like Nezha's Firewalker augment; Damage dealt by Spectral Scream is stored to be released as an elemental bolt upon releasing the ability. The elemental bolt needs better AoE too.

Vex Armor:

• Buff up the Fury's damagebuff to be a multiplier again (instead of additive to basedamage mods), but tone down the numbers if needed (since it's an aura)
• Make Scorn's armor bonus be a flat amount of armor, so it has value for all allies.
• Make it give to Chroma (and Chroma alone), a multiplicative damage-resistance buff, which is unmoddable. Say, 70% or so?

Effigy

• Make the Effigy gain half of that armor which is taken from Chroma.
• Whenever Chroma has EW or VA up (doesn't matter if he casts them before or after Effigy is summoned), the Effigy gains the same bonuses. Further, make it have EW and VA as auras around it as well.
• Reduce energydrain to 5 per second (from the current 10).
• Bake in the augment to be a baseline effect, but without the damaging elemental trail. Then let the augment grant the elemental trail, along with also causing the Effigy to heal allies who are near it. Call it... Guardian Effigy?

 

yes perfect! 

ill just throw in my idea.

returning vex armor to the old version. (without the exploit)

making effigy the buffing ability. still having chromas skin fly around and buffing in area of effect (but with overall lower buff than vex armor) BEEECAUSE:

make effigy castable on teammates. essentially showing chromas skin onto another warframe - giving him the exact same buffs as vex armor!

would make his 4 really good

[--SlayerPrime--]

Chroma's problem is not over-nerfed, he being that powerful was never intended and DE let the playerbase know that long ago. His persisting problem is "UNDER-DEVELOPED". I don't really play chroma before because all he had is a large EHP pool, no team benefits, no uniqueness. Besides his EHP and buff skills (both are a bug rather than intentionality), he had nothing. he is severely "under-developed" even for now. His 1 and 4 has so much potential. 

I actually has some ideas to make him interesting:

1. Chroma can actually RIDE his effigy and become a dragon rider. While riding his effigy, his 1 will change from a stream attack to a giant dragon breath fire ball, able to AOE proc and knockdown CC groups of enemies. You can even give Chroma a new set of skills while in dragon rider form.

2. make the effigy can function like a dummy, if chroma is not riding. When Chroma take fatal damage while his effigy is out his effigy gets destroyed while chroma gets fully healed.

Equinox can be made to a very interesting dual build with just his 1, Chroma definitely can have a lot of room to be unique.

[Dragazer]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/7wsrsn/chromas_vex_armor_calculation_seriously_needs/

I have posted a rather lengthy post on reddit detailing the issues of vex armor's current formula, and why the old vex armor seemed so broken.

tl;dr 

Vex armor multiplying with mods was not the source of its broken absurdity or one shotting Eidolon shenanigans. It was the fact it was bugged somehow to apply multiple times over itself in the presence of Dual elemental combos.

Please bring back the old formula ( (Base)x(Vex)x(Mods) just like almost everything else), but take away the double/triple dip this would make Chroma actually viable again in terms of tankiness and damage but not to the point of Eidolon Slayer levels of absurdity