<custom maps> In this political climate....

[Gahrzerkire]

you dont need a forma to polarize the conversation.

TLDR = Rough Example Mission @ Bottom

Also what happened to the ability to craft custom maps? (It was mentioned in a devstream about.. 8 months ago)

Something path of exile esk would be amazing in warframe whjere you can get boosts to drop chances and specific mods types or even rare weapons by getting crazy enemy modifiers and boosts. Im talking like 150+ level enemies for it to be the warframe equivalent. 

I would like to have access to a level 70-80 base survival on say earth via crafting.

This is something any individual player can do, if you want something amazing like an event weapon you need to run something that is DIFFICULT. 

Something along the lines of inorder to have a chance at getting a for example 10% chance of getting supra vandal you need a minimum of starting level 80, you need to run for at least 2 hours that gives you a 10% chance of getting it, then if you want to increase your chances of getting it at the 2 hour mark you need to have modifiers that make the mission even harder for example: +100% enemy armor +25% chance (12.5% chance now), + 100% enemy quantity +50% Chance (17.5% chance now).

So the idea is that there are missions you can craft that will come with really amazing reward potential but it will be super low chance, until you make the mission SUPER hard, something like the above^

The Core idea, the POINT is NOT THE LOOT (maddening right?) its more of a way for players to build maps with the difficulty they desire, but it has the POTENTIAL to give the player the chance to acquire if you want specific rewards, but you would have base difficulty, duration, mission type, requirements. Im saying that if you want a locked event gun, its REALLY REALLY hard to get a CHANCE at it, but still possible.

I.E. there would be no capture mission that you could get a wraith or vandal weapon from cause its a easy mission.

Again its a crafting mission, its not something you can just "set" the player would have to unlock the map type, farm the resources to make the key, craft the key, craft the difficulty modifiers, craft the level modifier, yatta yatta, and all that can then be combined into a key. 

Obvious modifiers increasing resource drop rate, and the like would not be included as they would easily be abused and the intent of these missions is to provide a challenge to veteran players.

Example Mission:

Tileset: Earth
Base Level: 80-100 (Added Rare Drop at 2 Hour Mark Supra Vandal <10% Chance>)
Type: Survival
Faction: Grineer
Modifiers:
     -Void Fissure (-50% to Rare Drop chance <5% Chance>)
     -Enemy Quantity = +50% (+25% to Rare Drop Chance <7.5% Chance>)
     -Enemy Armor = +100% (+25% to Rare Drop Chance <10% Chance>)
     -Special = Enemy Boss Spawn Every 10 Minutes (+50% to Rare Drop Chance <15% Chance>)

Edit 5:
POE Map Crafting: (PoE = path of exile(it came first))
it could be as simple as you need 50 map scans to get a tileset, you can then craft this tileset onto a void key, then you can craft different effects onto the key that specify mission type, enemy level, +% to enemy armor, +% to enemy damage, +% to # of enemies. you could have an entire expansion just about a mapping system, where you earn rep to unlock the ability to craft more desired modifiers. Then depending on the modifiers you can either get unique rewards, or just boosted drop rates of rare mods / weapons to compensate for the difficulty. 

Other stuff could do with it is, go 2 hours in a lvl 80+ crafted survival and you have a 10% chance of getting supra vandal. 

add +50% enemy quantity +25% chance to get supra
add +75% enemy damage +50% chance to get supra

Edited February 17, 2018 by Reaverhart
Edit 1: post unclear Edit 2: More Clarification Edit 3: God I Should Have Done a Better Job Edit 5: further crystalization

[Zhoyzu]

you never could craft custom maps. only dojos

[Gahrzerkire]

Just now, Zhoyzu said:

you never could craft custom maps. only dojos

no they talked about it a long time ago with the idea of reworking the system map, im talking like 4 months ago. 

[Zhoyzu]

Just now, Reaverhart said:

no they talked about it a long time ago with the idea of reworking the system map, im talking like 4 months ago. 

im not up to date on my dev streams but i dont see how that would work at all anyways

[polarity]

Got to say, I would like a way to do the Earth - Lith defense mission at a higher level.  I love that map, but at that level the rewards mean it's not worth playing except for the fun of jumping around it, and you rarely get anyone willing to sit through 20 waves until it starts to get interesting.

Perhaps this feature could be part of a clan upgrade, so one clan can create a custom map, challenge other clans to complete it with a higher score, and then the winning clan gets a reward.

Edited February 17, 2018 by polarity

[Gahrzerkire]

 

8 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

im not up to date on my dev streams but i dont see how that would work at all anyways

it could be as simple as you need 50 map scans to get a tileset, you can then craft this tileset onto a void key, then you can craft different effects onto the key that specify mission type, enemy level, +% to enemy armor, +% to enemy damage, +% to # of enemies. you could have an entire expansion just about a mapping system, where you earn rep to unlock the ability to craft more desired modifiers. Then depending on the modifiers you can either get unique rewards, or just boosted drop rates of rare mods / weapons to compensate for the difficulty. 

[Koldraxon-732]

12 minutes ago, Reaverhart said:

[Refers to Clan Mission system/Kingpin system]
 

6 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

[Confused]

DE did, and probably still has plans, for Clan-made missions (i.e: Only Sentients in the Void, or only Bursas, etc...) and the 'Kingpin system' which was outlined a number of Devstreams ago. They did not mention at all about artificially-assembled tilesets but that could be put in for Captura.

[theraot]

hace 13 minutos, Reaverhart dijo:

no they talked about it a long time ago with the idea of reworking the system map, im talking like 4 months ago. 

Were that not custom obstacle courses for the dojo?

Edit:

hace 2 minutos, Koldraxon-732 dijo:

Clan-made missions

Ah, I remember that. They did it as a dev tool. It was not custom map, but custom mission (they choose the place, enemy type, level and modifiers). If
I understanding is that the "Kingpin system" replaces it, although I still want it.

Edited February 17, 2018 by theraot

[Gahrzerkire]

1 minute ago, theraot said:

Were that not custom obstacle courses for the dojo?

 

1 minute ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

DE did, and probably still has plans, for Clan-made missions (i.e: Only Sentients in the Void, or only Bursas, etc...) and the 'Kingpin system' which was outlined a number of Devstreams ago. They did not mention at all about artificially-assembled tilesets but that could be put in for Captura.

I further clarified what i meant up top at the beginning of my post. 

Other stuff could do with it is, go 2 hours in a lvl 80+ crafted survival and you have a 50% chance of getting supra vandal. 

add +50% enemy quantity +25% chance to get supra v
add +75% enemy damage +50% chance to get supra v

[theraot]

hace 1 minuto, Reaverhart dijo:

 

I further clarified what i meant up top at the beginning of my post. 

Other stuff could do with it is, go 2 hours in a lvl 80+ crafted survival and you have a 50% chance of getting supra vandal. 

add +50% enemy quantity +25% chance to get supra v
add +75% enemy damage +50% chance to get supra v

Yes, you did, while I was typing. Subsequently, I started updating my post.

And you see that is not custom map, just custom setting for the mission.

---

I just did not have time to mention that I do not remember the captura thing. Can you find the dev stream? Anyway, if it is for Captura, then it isn't a playable mission.

[Koldraxon-732]

6 minutes ago, Reaverhart said:

[Event weapon as reward]

But this can be exploited, which might be why DE could've ditched the Clan-modified missions for the new [PH]Dark Sector 'Extermination-race'... Though it's a guess at best as I've not heard DE saying that outright.

As for high-difficulty missions, there's also high-level/endless survivals/defenses/intercepts/excavations, not to mention also Kuva Siphons/Floods which ramp up the enemy levels.

And the Tileset-builder in Captura was just an idea I and maybe some others were tossing around, DE did not speak of it (yet?) but I suspect with Captura getting more stuff this would be inevitable, when more Captura tiles become available and the ability to bolt them together is created.

@theraot, I remember [DE]Scott recently saying that, internally, the idea of using your Clan Dojo for Captura is being considered as well as (finally) the introduction of Faction-styled tile bits to really transform the Dojo into something completely new.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Koldraxon-732
Scott said a thing.

[Gahrzerkire]

Just now, Koldraxon-732 said:

But this can be exploited, which might be why DE could've ditched the Clan-modified missions for the new [PH]Dark Sector 'Extermination-race'... Though it's a guess at best as I've not heard DE saying that outright.

As for high-difficulty missions, there's also high-level/endless survivals/defenses/intercepts/excavations, not to mention also Kuva Siphons/Floods which ramp up the enemy levels.

Yeah the point is to just have them on demand for players who want to farm, but dont want to be bored the entire time. 

The gun thing is an errant  thought. Also you think you could survive a level 200 survival with + 50% enemy quantity and armor?

 

 

5 minutes ago, theraot said:

Yes, you did, while I was typing. Subsequently, I started updating my post.

And you see that is not custom map, just custom setting for the mission.

---

I just did not have time to mention that I do not remember the captura thing. Can you find the dev stream? Anyway, if it is for Captura, then it isn't a playable mission.

The point is you have to earn the maps, to stop players from just being able to jack the difficulty and having a balancing mechanism for the increased rewards you receive from crafted custom difficulty maps. It actually balances out really well. 

Also im not talking about captura at all, captura can go die for all I care. (no offense to captura intended) This is crafting a custom mission to play, you dont play missions in captura, as far as i understand its a really fancy and well made selfie device.

It was an old devstream, back when they were talking about grouping the star chart in relation to the focus trees, and having some pretty interesting lore rich stuff involved, but vastly lowered mission count, it was actually a pretty hot topic alot of people were nervious about. unfortunately i cannot find the stream where they talked about it, and dont want to take the time to do it.

My main point is i imagine for most veterans of warframe it would be really nice to be able to grab a mission with hella high level enemies, and then BOOST whatever attributes we want and use that to either level, farm or do what we want, so we can have a challenge, cause lets be honest... the star chart was never a challenge, and neither were the sorties, also sure kuva missions are fun, but i have to listen to a screaming little girl.
 

[theraot]

@Koldraxon-732 I see, that makes sense.

@Reaverhart If the rewards come from the system, then Koldraxon has a point. The clan could set easy mission and good rewards.

I suppose it could be possible to make some score system for the difficulty and then require a minimum difficulty score to have certain rewards. I guess that could work...

---

When they showcased the ability to have custom mission setting, and regarding the rewards for clan mission based on that system, I was thinking something along these lines:

- It can only be set by warlords (after all, it makes little sense that every member can do it).
- warlords had to donate the special rewards.
- they set an end date to play the mission (perhaps it is limited only one mission per week, or something like that).
- and they the system automatically awarded the rewards to the players that lasted longer (if it is an endless mission type) or did more iterations.

It would work as something the warlords do to keep the members of the clan interested.

However a downside of this system is that it makes no sense for solo clans. Which are a thing.

---

Considering what they have done with recent events. Perhaps there could be clan standing, that you can use to purchase rewards. And you earn it by playing custom clan missions, also made by the warlords.

Now, if DE sets the standing prices, they would have some control over how difficult it is to get a particular item. Preventing the exploit of setting an easy mission to get them. And it would remain useful for clans of any size.

Edit: If the clan is optimizing the missions to give more standing in less time, and that translates more affinity in less time, then:
- It makes sense to make missions that are fairly difficult. As higher level enemies would yield more affinity, but if you can't kill them it becomes pointless.
- It would also mean that it can remove leveling hot spots (i.e Hydron). However that is less of an issue thanks to fissures being a viable way to level (they give affinity bonus).

Edit 2: It could be away to earn dojo decorations for the liset. And I would hope for a color palette based on the dojo colors. Perhaps that clan emblem (which you can purchase for PL) can be a rewards too. And of course, bring back some of the old event rewards there too... at least those from events that are not coming back.

Edited February 17, 2018 by theraot

[Gahrzerkire]

11 minutes ago, theraot said:

-snip-

@theraot

@Koldraxon-732

Yeah Im not proposing anything like either of those systems. 

This is something any individual player can do, if you want something amazing like an event weapon you need to run something that is DIFFICULT. 

Something along the lines of inorder to have a chance at getting a for example 10% chance of getting supra vandal you need a minimum of starting level 80, you need to run for at least 2 hours that gives you a 10% chance of getting it, then if you want to increase your chances of getting it at the 2 hour mark you need to have modifiers that make the mission even harder for example: +100% enemy armor +25% chance (12.5% chance now), + 100% enemy quantity +50% Chance (17.5% chance now).

So the idea is that there are missions you can craft that will come with really amazing reward potential but it will be super low chance, until you make the mission SUPER hard, something like the above^

The Core idea, the POINT is NOT THE LOOT (maddening right?) its more of a way for players to build maps with the difficulty they desire, but it has the POTENTIAL to give the player the chance to acquire if you want specific rewards, but you would have base difficulty, duration, mission type, requirements. Im saying that if you want a locked event gun, its REALLY REALLY hard to get a CHANCE at it, but still possible.

I.E. there would be no capture mission that you could get a wraith or vandal weapon from cause its a easy mission.

Again its a crafting mission, its not something you can just "set" the player would have to unlock the map type, farm the resources to make the key, craft the key, craft the difficulty modifiers, craft the level modifier, yatta yatta, and all that can they be combined into a key. 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Reaverhart

[theraot]

For your system @Reaverhart, and considering precedents, I would suggest:

- First the evident: I should be able to invite whoever I want to play my key with me.

- Limit the number of missions you can make at the same time (a number of slots, and make those slots something else players can buy). Because, if every player can make their own, and as much as resources allow them, then it becomes a database problem (I guess DE would like more things in which players can expend PL).

- If this goes in the foundry, it needs its won tab.

- I think a new segment or segment upgrade (if it goes in foundry) would be welcome. It is a one time hassle for the players, also if a player doesn't want to have it, they do not get it. On the other hand, for DE it means that if a player does not have the segment, they do not need to bother with the database space for this, and also they can have the segment behind something of whatever difficulty they find appropriate (In fact, I would also suggest a quest, why you can make your own missions can benefit of a bit of lore).

- Finally, make them tradable. (If a segment is required, then those without can't buy it. If they do not have slots they can't buy it either). This means that if I can't be bothered to go over the trouble to get and craft the things... I can give you PL for it.

And a wish: If this happens, I wish for building keys to be fast. With all the variables, it would be easy to mess up the difficulty, and I do not want to wait 12 hours to try again.

Edited February 17, 2018 by theraot

[Gahrzerkire]

31 minutes ago, theraot said:

For your system @Reaverhart, and considering precedents, I would suggest:

- First the evident: I should be able to invite whoever I want to play my key with me.

- Limit the number of missions you can make at the same time (a number of slots, and make those slots something else players can buy). Because, if every player can make their own, and as much as resources allow them, then it becomes a database problem (I guess DE would like more things in which players can expend PL).

- If this goes in the foundry, it needs its won tab.

- I think a new segment or segment upgrade (if it goes in foundry) would be welcome. It is a one time hassle for the players, also if a player doesn't want to have it, they do not get it. On the other hand, for DE it means that if a player does not have the segment, they do not need to bother with the database space for this, and also they can have the segment behind something of whatever difficulty they find appropriate (In fact, I would also suggest a quest, why you can make your own missions can benefit of a bit of lore).

- Finally, make them tradable. (If a segment is required, then those without can't buy it. If they do not have slots they can't buy it either). This means that if I can't be bothered to go over the trouble to get and craft the things... I can give you PL for it.

And a wish: If this happens, I wish for building keys to be fast. With all the variables, it would be easy to mess up the difficulty, and I do not want to wait 12 hours to try again.

-Yes of course.... like everything else in the game it should be co-op....

-path of exile has a significantly more complex system in terms of unique player items, and players have 30+ characters with 10's of thousands of unique items with unique stats... DE can more then afford the storage required to handle these unique maps... they make significantly more money then grinding gear games i promise you. so yeah i see what you are saying... but honestly... they shouldnt need to... the riven limitations are ridiculous as it is...

-i would say make it its own console in the orbiter that generates a void portal to some kind of shaped void plane that you opened with your key.

-yeah a quest would be nice... but honestly they could just throw this in here with functionality and some small explanation in the codex as to what the thing that just appeared in your orbiter is and i think maybe 2 dudes would flip out.

-of course they would be tradable! this would allow for the creation of an entire new market of items. we def need to further diversify the number of custom items being sold and exchanged on the market because that stuff is DOPE and amazing for traders.

-honestly yes... everything needs to be instant, but this especially should be. 

 

[Gahrzerkire]

1 hour ago, theraot said:

-snip-

Thoughts on example mission?

[theraot]

@Reaverhart Riven slots are overpriced and they know it. However there needs to be some limit. Because "unlimited" is just a lie, also having some idea of how it will grow helps management. And yeah, they can just throw it in with no lore, as I said, it would benefit from a quest, that is not vital.

---

Example mission?

If I had this system right now, I would probably try to make missions for farming or for leveling... because, that is how I am. I enjoy exploring, understanding and optimizing mechanics, I would find a way to take advantage of it.

For instance, I need to farm certain things with regularity, because I eat some tools with regularity. I would design a key I could play to farm those...

I would probably start with a survival, and from there start tweaking. Probably infested enemies, I won't mind vampire, energy drain or no shields, fairly high level (tweak it to not over kill it), and a slick map, orokin or corpus.

Basically high level infested invading the orokin void with some nightmare thrown in.

---

About the chances and rewards... there are some weapons from events that has made their way to invasions or incursions. We need all of them. For instance, I never got the Latron Wraith, would like to get that (thinking about it, I guess I could just buy it). What you would need to get what? I do not flipping know. Hopefully, if DE make something like this, they explain what we need for each reward.