So sick of trading chat, why can't we get an auction house?

[ngrazer]

2 hours ago, RistN said:

negative influences on Warframes economy

I'm constantly hearing how Warframe economy will collapse because of AH, but can anyone actually elaborate on... how exactly will it collapse?

[CandyManCriminal]

9 minutes ago, ngrazer said:

I'm constantly hearing how Warframe economy will collapse because of AH, but can anyone actually elaborate on... how exactly will it collapse?

Real wrath of God type stuff.
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

but really i think people are just worried about prices getting either too high or too low

[Aggh]

3 hours ago, Kaminariss said:

Well, look at this again, the bolded text. Is there any kind of medium in warframe, between cash and platinum? Or is it anyhow redeemable? No. You can't even gift platinum to other player from their shop - probably because of this law.

We alredy got past this I think? Warframe has direct currency exchange. There is nothing 'prepaid' about buying platinum.

In fact, WoW token could be called prepaid. And you can redeem it.

I don't get it, are you learning English as we go in this discussion?  Platinum itself is the medium, it's purchased on a prepaid basis (ie you buy the platinum before you buy stuff with it) with cash.

Except that items on the AH aren't bought directly with WoW tokens.

44 minutes ago, ngrazer said:

I'm constantly hearing how Warframe economy will collapse because of AH, but can anyone actually elaborate on... how exactly will it collapse?

Supply will vastly exceed demand and prices on pretty much everything that isn't an event item will crater.  The hassle of dealing with trade chat to sell stuff has created a massive supply of items that is not in the current economy.  Meanwhile demand does not have much room for growth because WTBing has never been hard.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Aggh

[Kaminariss]

13 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Platinum itself is the medium

No platinum is virtual currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_currency check definitions tab.

15 minutes ago, Aggh said:

it's purchased on a prepaid basis

You clearly don't know how prepaid works, or maybe not even what is exactly a prepaid. Warframe's platinum works as direct currency conversion. Nobody says anything about items you can buy with plat.

There is nothing prepaid about it. It is stupid to compare virtual currency to a gift cards.

19 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Supply will vastly exceed demand and prices on pretty much everything that isn't an event item with crater.  The hassle of dealing with trade chat to sell stuff has created a massive supply of items that is not in the current economy.  Meanwhile demand does not have much room for growth because WTBing has never been hard.

Nothing like this will happen, both buying and selling were equally hard using trade chat and equally easy using warframe.market. It will not create massive supply because of limit of concurrent items, trade tax and limit of trades per day.

[RistN]

1 hour ago, ngrazer said:

I'm constantly hearing how Warframe economy will collapse because of AH, but can anyone actually elaborate on... how exactly will it collapse?

There are even now people making lowest offers on warframe.market to get quick platinum.Now imagine if you had AH in game and how more often this would happen.It would also naturally have larger volume than wm or trade chat have.

Riven mods,stuff that is not available in game now(like primed chamber mod) will still hold its value if nothing changes,even new stuff but for limited time.But available mods and parts value will degrade fast and constant lowering of prices which is bound to happen will ultimately drop down all prices after some time.Supply of that "available stuff" is much larger than anyone thinks.Even things that have high demand would be made cheaper one by one by people needing quick platinum.

Just think about how much platinum needs newer player who doesn't have slightest idea of some parts value or warframes economy and a veteran player having that knowledge and resources and gear not to be affected by platinum shortage much.Who will dictate value of things in AH?Like in warframe.market top 10 lowest prices...

And like I said lower prices means higher the value of platinum which means less need for players to buy it from DE.

[Aggh]

6 hours ago, Kaminariss said:

No platinum is virtual currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_currency check definitions tab.

You clearly don't know how prepaid works, or maybe not even what is exactly a prepaid. Warframe's platinum works as direct currency conversion. Nobody says anything about items you can buy with plat.

There is nothing prepaid about it. It is stupid to compare virtual currency to a gift cards.

Nothing like this will happen, both buying and selling were equally hard using trade chat and equally easy using warframe.market. It will not create massive supply because of limit of concurrent items, trade tax and limit of trades per day.

medium refers to an agency or means of doing something.  Platinum is a medium for buying items in game. 

Platinum is a means of buying items that is bought on a prepaid basis, you are paying the charge on items in advance through buying virtual currency. 

You are reading laws with purposefully broad definitions way too literally.

At this point it's pretty clear that this topic is beyond your ability to comprehend so I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Aggh

[Umbranoir]

On 01/03/2018 at 2:25 AM, Kaminariss said:

 

Oh wow, finally a guy who knows what he is talking about, yes, thats the reason why warframe does not need so much auction house. And it is perfectly valid.

If a price of banshee prime set would reach 1p nobody would be picking it from loot table. Thats just how supply and demand curve works. If something is worthless, supply will start dropping out. Noone would bother selling prime set for so low if they could just pick some brown items or even forma blueprints since they would be worth more.

 

Read what i wrote above. As soon as the items becomes worthless people will stop supplying them -> price rises.

 

Wrong, market would still regulate prices as they are on current level. Add tax to it and median prices will rise. You actually got it the other way around. It is the supply and demand what drives prices. Not some illusionary barrier that doesn't even exist. The only inconvenience now is that you need to copy and paste from warframe.market, paste it to game and invite once he agrees. 

I'll just throw this out there in reply to what you're saying- I whole-heartedly agree with you. Prices generally shift with supply and demand in a standard economy, However as I have tried to articulate in my earlier post, Warframe's economy isn't standard. As you know, Warframe's Mastery System is tied to how many warframes/weapons/sentinels etc you rank up to 30. Currently there are 44 tradeable Primes (not including Excalibur/Skana/Lato for obv reasons). Aside from vaulted primes, that immediately become more accessible under an auction house motif and whose supply is NOT immediately renewable until the next unvaulting, that would make demand extraordinarily high for those particular Primes and with no way to replenish supply until an unvaulting would make them scarce and ridiculously pricey. As for regular unvaulted Primes, as you say- IF there's a large enough amount of people trying to sell Banshee Prime, there will cease to be a demand for it, which isn't entirely true. Every player (by default all who haven't already owned and levelled Banshee Prime) Will at some-point want Banshee Prime and due to the nature of how Mastery works in the game, there will be a steady influx of people looking to buy it. Now people can stop wanting to sell it, sure, but what about the other 6 unvaulted frames? 6. Six. If you want to get technical and throw the weaponry and the one Sentinel in there too 27 (incl. Banshee) Primes. 27 UNVAULTED Primes that get a demand from hundreds and thousands of players a day, and the idea presented is to bundle them into a convenient auction house where anyone can instantaneously buy and sell them instead of the currently artificially inflated prices led by unregulated inconsistency. The only reason Warframe.Market works is that comparitively it's a small amount of the trading players that use it to sell, and even then, you get more plat in trade-chat most of the time selling there than you do on the Market because of the competitiveness of having a publicly available price leads to lower available prices.. Countless times I've been able to sell various random mods at 10-15plat a piece in Trade-chat, whereas they are currently 3-4plat on warframe.market. Auction House just would not work on a stable of so little items that are openly and equally acquirable, and for the ones that aren't, the vaulted gear the disparity between the prices of unvaulted gear and vaulted gear would be laughably huge.

[TheRealDestian]

If prices are too low, it's a result of supply being too high, and the solution to supply being too high isn't to make selling things enough of an exercise in tedium that fewer players will want to do so.

[Kaminariss]

37 minutes ago, Aggh said:

At this point it's pretty clear that this topic is beyond your ability to comprehend so I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

It is clear at this point you have no idea what are you talking about. 

If I create a real currency "rocks" and will be receiving payments for my other goods in rocks, they will become a real currency. But according to your theory they will be medium for buying my goods. People willing to buy my wares would need to pre-purchase a rocks before buying my other wares. Thus:

ROCKS = GIFT CARDS/CERTIFICATES

It is just plain stupid.

 

6 minutes ago, TheRealDestian said:

and the solution to supply being too high isn't to make selling things enough of an exercise in tedium that fewer players will want to do so.

Solution would be to make items harder to obtain but people here think the only problem now is to sell things.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Kaminariss

[(XBOX)ThePow3rpl4y]

So iv'e read through the original post and also some of the replies so i thought id dish in my 2 cents worth.

First the simple belligerent boredom of staring at a chat tab looking for the things you want is discouraging to say the least. having an auction house would make trading much more quick and easy without having to stress over it too much and we get reduced scam risk.

Even if we could just get an AH for things such as rivens, normal mods, and maybe prime sets the hassle of trying to find the things your actually looking for would completely diminish and would make the life of most players far easier. and ultimately id see the number of new players who end up staying on the game rise drastically just from being able to see what there is in the game to buy and experiment with and know that if they want or need something that just wont drop there is a consistent alternate method.

and at the end of the day what would actually be wrong with implementing an auction house and leaving trade chat where it is. that way anyone who disproves of an auction house could simply not use it, while anyone who likes the idea could migrate away from trade chat and to a system that if implemented correctly would allow players to sell items while running missions or while offline in the game. All this mechanic would take is to use the system that brings stalker marks after a boss fight mission or your forma bundle that comes in when you log in after an update that contained balance changes. simply log in or load out of a mission and receive a message from someone (perhaps a new cephalon character that runs the auction house) witch says something like "Your [Insert Item Name} Has Sold!" with an attachment containing your platinum.

As i said this is only the thoughts of a single console tenno who definitely believes an auction house is far far far overdue.

[Aggh]

3 hours ago, TheRealDestian said:

If prices are too low, it's a result of supply being too high, and the solution to supply being too high isn't to make selling things enough of an exercise in tedium that fewer players will want to do so.

It's a result of prime parts not being all that hard to farm.  Rad shares let you hit a 33% drop rate on rare drops.  That is unheard of in most f2p games.  So you can either have high drop rates and a trading system that obfuscates existing supply, or you can have low drop rates and an AH that makes trading very easy. 

As it stands now, prime sets sell cheaper than their regular counterparts in the market and there are regular warframes that take more time to farm.  Meanwhile they're still worth enough that they're actually worth farming to sell. 

The current economy has a very ideal balance on value vs grind.  Messing around with it for a bit of extra convenience would be pretty dumb.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Aggh

[Kaminariss]

1 hour ago, Aggh said:

trading system that obfuscates existing supply

What kind of nonsense is that? We already have warframe.market which is probably way more popular than trade chat. Everything is visible including statistics.

1 hour ago, Aggh said:

The current economy has a very ideal balance on value vs grind.  Messing around with it for a bit of extra convenience would be pretty dumb.

Current economy is as inbalanced as it gets. From one side you have trade chat which you can get scammed and buy items overpriced as well as items underpriced. Last time I bought Akbolto Prime Receiver from tade chat for half of the market price. I wasn't even trying to barter. It is the worst possible archaic implementation of trading that only kills economy. And second side warframe.market which is pretty close to being a proper marketplace but still has flaws like people forgetting to set their online status, having to sit tight in dojo or lose customers etc.

Basically you are trying to say that online shopping destroyed real world economy. Which is dumb. Because that what is AH to trade chat or warframe.market. You can buy online anytime and get your items delivered by couriers. Before that you had to personally go to store, find item you were looking for manually, buy it and bring it to home yourself.

[Aggh]

20 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

What kind of nonsense is that? We already have warframe.market which is probably way more popular than trade chat. Everything is visible including statistics.

Current economy is as inbalanced as it gets. From one side you have trade chat which you can get scammed and buy items overpriced as well as items underpriced. Last time I bought Akbolto Prime Receiver from tade chat for half of the market price. I wasn't even trying to barter. It is the worst possible archaic implementation of trading that only kills economy. And second side warframe.market which is pretty close to being a proper marketplace but still has flaws like people forgetting to set their online status, having to sit tight in dojo or lose customers etc.

Basically you are trying to say that online shopping destroyed real world economy. Which is dumb. Because that what is AH to trade chat or warframe.market. You can buy online anytime and get your items delivered by couriers. Before that you had to personally go to store, find item you were looking for manually, buy it and bring it to home yourself.

As usual you don't know what you're talking about.  Warframe.market is a fraction of a fraction of the actual player base.  It's got 5,074 traders right now.  There are 36k ccu on steam right now, and even more who are using the non steam client.  Even if you're really generous it's maybe ~3-7% of people currently playing across all platforms.  To say it is a meaningful representation of exisiting supply is just willful ignorance.

You're blindly comparing WF's economy to the real world which is pure stupidity.  How about you actually look at the reality of WF's economy rather than poorly applying concepts you learned in a GER economics class?  The reality is that a fraction of the player base regularly sells things, and with the high drop rate that the game has on even rare items, the supply on anything farmable is constantly increasing regardless of demand and most of it is not actually being introduced into the economy. 

Current prices are where they are because available supply is lower than the actual sum total of items that can be traded.  Warframe.Market and Nexus Stats already have a small affect on the trade value of items by making trading more accessible. Multiply that effect by 25+ fold and prices on most things will crater.  It's inevitable.  I really don't get how this hasn't penetrated your skull yet.


 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Aggh

[Kaminariss]

Just now, Aggh said:

To say it is a meaningful representation of exisiting supply is just willful ignorance.

Trying to compare active players with players actively participating in trading is straight up retar*ed. All you can compare is trade chat activity vs warframe.market activity. Oh and there is also wftrader.com

5 minutes ago, Aggh said:

the supply on anything farmable is constantly increasing regardless of demand and is not actually being introduced into the economy.

If you learned economy from BravoGirl then maybe it is the case but fortunately, real world economy also covers such cases. Such case is called market filling.

9 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Current prices are where they are because supply is artificially lower than it really is.  Warframe.Market and Nexus Stats already have a small affect on the trade value of items by making trading more accessible. Multiply that effect by 25+ fold and prices on most things will crater.  It's inevitable.

This happens when uneducated people trying to teach economy 

First, you cannot assume that only supply will increase, demand will also increase. Second, making trading more conveniant has small effect on the item price. Third, there is no such thing as artifically lower supply. Supply is limited currently because of the limit of trades you can do per day.

Im gonna paste what i wrote in other topic:

Simplified value model for market is something like this:

[Time to acquire item] = [Value]

We could make it a bit better:

[Time to acquire relics] + [Time to open relics] = [Value]

We could bring even more variables in this equation but those are the most important. We also know that value does not equal price.

[Price] = [Value] * [Popularity] * [Demand] + [Time used to make trade]

Value - The amount of time spent to acquire specific item - but converted to currency (platinum)
Popularity - modifier that explains how useful is item, for example Fang Prime would have popularity lower than 1.
Demand - modifier that shows how many players want to buy specific item, this modifier is usually higher than 1 when new primes are coming out
Time used to make trade - self explainatory, converted to currency

So with AH only the time used to make trade would go down but if there would be a tax on transactions, equation would look like this:

[Price] = [Value] * [Popularity] * [Demand] + [Tax]

So to make prices keep on the same level

[Tax] = [Time used to make trade]

Actually popularity and demand could be displayed as a single variable simply called demand. And declining demand is what makes prices go lower over time.

[Aggh]

16 minutes ago, Kaminariss said:

Trying to compare active players with players actively participating in trading is straight up retar*ed. All you can compare is trade chat activity vs warframe.market activity. Oh and there is also wftrader.com

If you learned economy from BravoGirl then maybe it is the case but fortunately, real world economy also covers such cases. Such case is called market filling.

This happens when uneducated people trying to teach economy 

First, you cannot assume that only supply will increase, demand will also increase. Second, making trading more conveniant has small effect on the item price. Third, there is no such thing as artifically lower supply. Supply is limited currently because of the limit of trades you can do per day.

Im gonna paste what i wrote in other topic:

Simplified value model for market is something like this:

[Time to acquire item] = [Value]

We could make it a bit better:

[Time to acquire relics] + [Time to open relics] = [Value]

We could bring even more variables in this equation but those are the most important. We also know that value does not equal price.

[Price] = [Value] * [Popularity] * [Demand] + [Time used to make trade]

Value - The amount of time spent to acquire specific item - but converted to currency (platinum)
Popularity - modifier that explains how useful is item, for example Fang Prime would have popularity lower than 1.
Demand - modifier that shows how many players want to buy specific item, this modifier is usually higher than 1 when new primes are coming out
Time used to make trade - self explainatory, converted to currency

So with AH only the time used to make trade would go down but if there would be a tax on transactions, equation would look like this:

[Price] = [Value] * [Popularity] * [Demand] + [Tax]

So to make prices keep on the same level

[Tax] = [Time used to make trade]

Actually popularity and demand could be displayed as a single variable simply called demand. And declining demand is what makes prices go lower over time.

Artificially lower supply doesn't exist?  Here, I'll pull out an econ 101 term for you since you're so fond of them.  It's called artificial scarcity.  God you are so dense it hurts.

Demand.will.not.increase.  The current system has never been a barrier to buying stuff.  The fact that selling stuff takes so long has always been the primary barrier to more people taking part in the game's economy.  It's why the game has always had people clamoring for an AH.  Every single time that trading has become more accessible prices have fallen.  Every time.  You are arguing against the reality of what has happened and continues to happen in the game and you try to quantify it with meaningless bullS#&$ equations.  And in the meantime your bullS#&$ equations still don't take into account the fact that supply increases independent of demand in this game.  And for that matter it doesn't even mention existing supply once.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Aggh

[Volinus7]

56 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Current prices are where they are because available supply is lower than the actual sum total of items that can be traded.  Warframe.Market and Nexus Stats already have a small affect on the trade value of items by making trading more accessible. Multiply that effect by 25+ fold and prices on most things will crater.  It's inevitable.  I really don't get how this hasn't penetrated your skull yet.

Let's make things easier to understand. 

It's called "bottleneck". 

[Katoenplukker]

If you're about the money, you're playing the wrong game.

Auction house will not happen. The problem here is the trade chat, but an auction house will not fit in the game.

Try to come up with an outside-of-the-box idea. Would it be fixed if Rivens were untradeable? Just imagine all other options there are.

[Femuru]

idk how this got so out of hand isnt a auction house just usually a box in game that shows all the players WTS stuff that sits there for awhile there are flat selling then there is bidding where players can offer more plat for what a player is asking for if they want it that badly this shouldnt be complicated just make it a scrolling of lists of what ppl are WTS organized by categories wit a little search bar in the corner if there specifics u want so ppl stop typing the same thing over and over and over and the only ppl i can think of against this are scammers who want to fool noobies for a large amount of plat cause they dint learn to use the internet to figure out prices yet only reason i say that is cuz i have a friend who is a scammer. . .

plus to the whole DE will lose money is very very very unlikely due to the fact we already have a system helping us determine pay prices wit demands like nexus stats so atleast the system just gets everything into other players hands alot faster meaning a faster spend of platinum and even impulsive plat buying if players see something they really want so DE would still make money as for "players taking over the market" why not just make it so players cant put multiples of the same item/sets 

while for rivens its simple starting bid set by the seller and players bid for it after a the timer runs out there is the trade and again if there is bidding DE can profit off of that too since some ppl go to crazy lengths to get specific stats so this is a game of less RNG of lucky timing or even seller price of someone low/high balling but more statistics, organized trades, and fair marketing 

also to be fair warframe market is almost the same thing anyway just no bidding and its not in game this wouldnt be a bad thing as long as its done carefully DE can still benefit financially but at the same time organize all the players trades without the hassle of scams, slow dojo inv, rng timing, or trolling

it should all be a simple concept this is not politics it is a video game in which we want convenience to get something wen we want it and which we fairly pay for said item

in all honesty DE should probly touch in on this topic on a livestream for their opinion since its their game and wat some ppl complain about is marketing but hey they are the ones really marketing by selling plat for cash

Edited March 8, 2018 by ShenRyujin

[Kaminariss]

7 hours ago, Aggh said:

Demand.will.not.increase.  The current system has never been a barrier to buying stuff.

And here we go again, why are you having trouble of understanding that selling was also never hard? You can sell things in a matter of minutes. If you have troubles with selling only means that you have no idea how current market works and it is the definite proof.

 

7 hours ago, Aggh said:

The fact that selling stuff takes so long has always been the primary barrier to more people taking part in the game's economy

The fact? The bullsh*t not the fact. The only thing you may have problems selling are the rivens.

 

7 hours ago, Aggh said:

You are arguing against the reality of what has happened and continues to happen in the game and you try to quantify it with meaningless bullS#&$ equations.  And in the meantime your bullS#&$ equations still don't take into account the fact that supply increases independent of demand in this game.  And for that matter it doesn't even mention existing supply once.

Thats because you don't understand how economy works. Demand is what limits the supply, not the other way around. Now go read my equations once more and try to understand them.

Who am I trying to kid. You won't understand this anyway so lets make things clear: [Demand] in my equation already accounts for supply.
Supply and demand are 2 variables sure but if one changes the second one changes as well. It would be dumb to put both of them in equation.

Simplified curve looks like this:

[Dapyx]

google warframe.market https://warframe.market/

[GlaikitMayflies]

Just now, ShenRyujin said:

idk how this got so out of hand isnt a auction house just usually a box in game that shows all the players WTS stuff that sits there for awhile there are flat selling then there is bidding where players can offer more plat for what a player is asking for if they want it that badly this shouldnt be complicated just make it a scrolling of lists of what ppl are WTS organized by categories wit a little search bar in the corner if there specifics u want so ppl stop typing the same thing over and over and over and the only ppl i can think of against this are scammers who want to fool noobies for a large amount of plat cause they dint learn to use the internet to figure out prices yet only reason i say that is cuz i have a friend who is a scammer. . .

plus to the whole DE will lose money is very very very unlikely due to the fact we already have a system helping us determine pay prices wit demands like nexus stats so atleast the system just gets everything into other players hands alot faster meaning a faster spend of platinum and even impulsive plat buying if players see something they really want so DE would still make money as for "players taking over the market" why not just make it so players cant put multiples of the same item/sets 

while for rivens its simple starting bid set by the seller and players bid for it after a the timer runs out there is the trade and again if there is bidding DE can profit off of that too since some ppl go to crazy lengths to get specific stats so this is a game of less RNG of lucky timing or even seller price of someone low/high balling but more statistics, organized trades, and fair marketing 

also to be fair warframe market is almost the same thing anyway just no bidding and its not in game this wouldnt be a bad thing as long as its done carefully DE can still benefit financially but at the same time organize all the players trades without the hassle of scams, slow dojo inv, rng timing, or trolling

it should all be a simple concept this is not politics it is a video game in which we want convenience to get something wen we want it and which we fairly pay for said item

in all honesty DE should probly touch in on this topic on a livestream for their opinion since its their game and wat some ppl complain about is marketing but hey they are the ones really marketing by selling plat for cash

Jesus Christ man! Did you breathe at least once while writing this? 

Edited March 8, 2018 by toxicpanda

[GlaikitMayflies]

Just now, Kaminariss said:

And here we go again, why are you having trouble of understanding that selling was also never hard? You can sell things in a matter of minutes. If you have troubles with selling only means that you have no idea how current market works and it is the definite proof.

 

The fact? The bullsh*t not the fact. The only thing you may have problems selling are the rivens.

 

Thats because you don't understand how economy works. Demand is what limits the supply, not the other way around. Now go read my equations once more and try to understand them.

Who am I trying to kid. You won't understand this anyway so lets make things clear: [Demand] in my equation already accounts for supply.
Supply and demand are 2 variables sure but if one changes the second one changes as well. It would be dumb to put both of them in equation.

Simplified curve looks like this:

In your holy crusade for a basic market UI, you have turned this discussion afoul. Tread ever softly, for you are on the edge of getting this thread locked down.

Edited March 8, 2018 by toxicpanda

[Femuru]

8 minutes ago, toxicpanda said:

Jesus Christ man! Did you breathe at least once while writing this? 

its ok i have a few extra batches of life support behind me lol

[GlaikitMayflies]

Just now, ShenRyujin said:

its ok i have a few extra batches of life support behind me lol

When you type like this you have to remember to place a period or else your sentence will trail off like this a period gives the reader a moment to breathe or a momentary pause You dont want to create sentences like this it is bad grammar 

[Femuru]

1 minute ago, toxicpanda said:

When you type like this you have to remember to place a period or else your sentence will trail off like this a period gives the reader a moment to breathe or a momentary pause You dont want to create sentences like this it is bad grammar 

sorry i tend to only do that on college essays, when it comes to games i get lazy and let it run on but ill keep in mind for the future.