Infested Ship: The Worst Tileset For Lvl 80-100 Enemies

[Raspberry]

The mangled rooms, the tight hallways, it's a place more fit for horror/survival games, not for horde shooters like Warframe where our playable characters are too fragile. Against Tar-Mutalist MOAs that completely locks down chokepoints with tar that will instantly kill all but a small handful of frames, against Kuva Hyekka Masters that can fry through over 3000 EHP in under 1 second but stil must be fought up close, against Juggernauts that will demolish even the most immortal frames in the game, this has to be the absolute worst tileset for end-game content. The only "redeeming" factor for this place is the fact that thankfully, I've never once met a Scrambus/Comba here.

Can't something be done to improve the least liked tilesets in the game while the Venus open world isn't here yet? Recently, Grineer Forest and Grineer Asteroid received new tiles for what seems like no real reason so far, but they've been designed fairly well to be open enough for our Warframes to enjoy the space but also have enough terrain to not feel empty. I actually like the more open direction that DE is going, and I hope to see more of these. Maybe the worst rooms in Infested Ship and Corpus Ice Planet can be completely removed and new ones that work better be added in? They're no issue at star chart level, certainly, and the areas where we can't parkour out of trouble or add distance between us and the enemies do make us rethink combat a bit. But at sortie/Kuva Flood levels, there's no fun left to be had when the slightest mistake on the tankiest warframes will guarantee instant death. When playing here solo, I no longer feel like I'm fighting enemies but instead just fighting the game itself.

[Snorvyn]

8 minutes ago, Raspberri said:

Corpus Ice Planet can be completely removed

Wait a minute... I can get your point about tight hallways in infested ship. But what the hell is the problem with ice planet? it has some large areas and is completely fine. I am enjoying missions on that tileset a lot

[Raspberry]

1 minute ago, Igni said:

Wait a minute... I can get your point about tight hallways in infested ship. But what the hell is the problem with ice planet? it has some large areas and is completely fine. I am enjoying missions on that tileset a lot

It has some large areas that are mostly just ice, and those are fine, but some areas involve going inside shipwrecks. The worst thing that can happen is rounding one of the damaged hallways and facing a Scrambus with a shotgun.

[DarkFlameZealot]

If only the game requires some skill past lvl 60....hmmm.....

 

Juggernauts? There should never be one unless the mission is lvl 40 or under due to their absurd armor and dps output. It's essentially a death trap for the idiots who don't understand how to actually play the game instead of braindead Ember 4 or Ignis Wraith spamming. Kuva siphons and lvl 100 enemies? No issue either as your operator is invulnerable in their void mode and can easily dash through 3 enemies and regain full energy. The only flaw with siphons is the coloration of the tileset making the kuva hard to spot unless you know the 4 main spawns from farming it over and over.

 

The tilesets are fine. Nothing wrong with DE making some of them small and close quarters when we have melee weapons that can cleave through just about anything in 1-2 seconds (if you're not a complete scrub with your mod setup). If you're dying just because of a "simple mistake", then you're playing the game wrong and I can assume your mistake = reload in front of lvl 100 grineer or become brain dead for a few seconds. The ice corpus planet callout here makes....no sense at all. There is nothing wrong with that tileset and it is actually one of the best ones in the game imo. Large open areas combined with close quarters while moving between said open zones.

 

What you actually mean is that you have an issue with the enemies and not the tilesets due to being incompetent or simply unprepared to deal with the mission type, especially if you're soloing every mission. Want to do a Kuva Flood? Take Ivara, Loki, Ash, Slowva or any other invis/cc frame that can keep them off of you while you collect the Kuva. This post is essentially another unaccomplished Tenno wanting a change because they can't solo everything when the game isn't all about solo play unless your internet is absolute garbage (sorry peru kids, stay out of my NA games pls).

 

P.S.- bullet jumping and other parkour resets enemy ai back down to their lowest points temporarily. Maybe start moving and shooting more.

[Snorvyn]

1 minute ago, Raspberri said:

It has some large areas that are mostly just ice, and those are fine, but some areas involve going inside shipwrecks. The worst thing that can happen is rounding one of the damaged hallways and facing a Scrambus with a shotgun.

Look. I got that you love open space. I love the PoE and am excited for venus open world too. But that doesnt mean that any tight rooms ingame should be removed. its part of the game. its part of the challenge. Game isnt always about agility to bullet jump away from enemies. Its about picking a correct combination of frame and weapons to be read for certain types of enemies in certain types of enviroments. even if its a long tight corridor facing a Scrambus.

[Snorvyn]

@DarkFlameZealot that was a bit rough on them but yea :D agree with every single point you made

[Raspberry]

2 minutes ago, Igni said:

Look. I got that you love open space. I love the PoE and am excited for venus open world too. But that doesnt mean that any tight rooms ingame should be removed. its part of the game. its part of the challenge. Game isnt always about agility to bullet jump away from enemies. Its about picking a correct combination of frame and weapons to be read for certain types of enemies in certain types of enviroments. even if its a long tight corridor facing a Scrambus.

The issue is, VERY few frames are capable of surviving short tight corridors (long ones still have some level of long-range combat). There's no more correct combination left if even the most immortal frames are vulnerable to their abilities being dispelled or their usefulness pushed beyond their limits (i.e. Nidus losing 15 stacks instantly). And if you think there's a "right weapon", you're right: maiming strike polearms/whips. Sorry I wanted a little more variety than 2 viable weapon types across all 3 categories (primary, secondary, melee).

[Raspberry]

21 minutes ago, DarkFlameZealot said:

Nothing wrong with DE making some of them small and close quarters when we have melee weapons that can cleave through just about anything in 1-2 seconds (if you're not a complete scrub with your mod setup).

Name a non-polearm or non-whip melee weapon that scales all the way to end-game on all enemies. (Daggers don't count because you can't do finishers on every type of enemy.)

21 minutes ago, DarkFlameZealot said:

What you actually mean is that you have an issue with the enemies and not the tilesets due to being incompetent or simply unprepared to deal with the mission type, especially if you're soloing every mission. Want to do a Kuva Flood? Take Ivara, Loki, Ash, Slowva or any other invis/cc frame that can keep them off of you while you collect the Kuva. This post is essentially another unaccomplished Tenno wanting a change because they can't solo everything when the game isn't all about solo play unless your internet is absolute garbage (sorry peru kids, stay out of my NA games pls).

Kuva Guardians are 100% immune to normal CC, only stunnable with Void Blast and only distracted by other enemies (including radiation procced Grineer). That can be fixed with invisibility, of course, since they won't bother to target me in the first place. But guess how many frames are capable of invisibility, out of 34 in the game? Just four frames (Ivara, Loki, Ash, Octavia). That's good variety, isn't it? Also, invisibility alone is not going to help when it's mobile defense, which means viable options are further limited to only three frames (Ivara, Loki, Octavia). I get that this game is generally balanced around a full 4-man squad, but there needs to be more options for solo, honestly.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Raspberri

[Snorvyn]

1 hour ago, Raspberri said:

Name a non-polearm or non-whip melee weapon that scales all the way to end-game on all enemies.

I got a rapier that can shred almost any enemy (count out juggernauts, kuva guardiancs you mentioned etc) just as fast as polearms and wips will do.  Same for single sword. (Dual sword Nami Skyla is capable of same results. just not my style).
As for primary/secondary weapons i have at least 1 of each type that will deal with any enemy at least on sortie (lvl100) levels. Some examples that i use frequently. -
Primary
Lanka, Vectis, Tigris, Plasmor, Ignis, Sibarys, Baza, Soma, Boltor (?),  Corinth (dont use it - not my style, but completely capable), dread, lenz, cernos
Secondary
Akstilleto, Sicarus, Pandero, Euphona, Scisco, Hikou

I think this is quite a list for you to explore. (Small note. if you expect all weapons to perform on high levels without or just with 1-2 forma then think again. some weapons need like 6)
 

2 hours ago, Raspberri said:

VERY few frames are capable of surviving short tight corridors

Please mate. I dont wanna sound cocky but you are doing it wrong if you dont survive there. I can agree with some instances where enemies themselves  block your way with bodies and you die with some SQUISHY frames in all the toxin clouds... but thats just small instance of not being careful for a split second. otherwise with right weapons to support you and right modding on your frame i can take almost any frame to sortie level content in tight corridors and wipe the tileset without being downed once. (Almost - just because i dont use a few frames and havent moded them properly).
I really suggest you looking for some build suggestions from youtubers or other players to get what is it that you are lacking which makes your work so hard on high levels

[Raspberry]

5 minutes ago, Igni said:

Please mate. I dont wanna sound cocky but you are doing it wrong if you dont survive there.

I'm doing it wrong when I struggle to survive in tight corridors, a place where Warframes cannot parkour and enemies with strong short-range weapons such as shotguns or Ignis or toxin/tar/swarm clouds are at an advantage? Where, then, would you say is a location where struggling to survive is normal? I also struggle to see how your alleged ability to wipe out tilesets can be justified when your mission completion rate is only 87%. Quite a lot of big talk from a guy who won't/can't complete 13% of his missions (most MR 20+ I meet generally have a 92-95% mission completion rate).

[(PSN)Glitchoid]

2 hours ago, Raspberri said:

I'm doing it wrong when I struggle to survive in tight corridors, a place where Warframes cannot parkour and enemies with strong short-range weapons such as shotguns or Ignis or toxin/tar/swarm clouds are at an advantage? Where, then, would you say is a location where struggling to survive is normal? I also struggle to see how your alleged ability to wipe out tilesets can be justified when your mission completion rate is only 87%. Quite a lot of big talk from a guy who won't/can't complete 13% of his missions (most MR 20+ I meet generally have a 92-95% mission completion rate).

You made your point invalid by bringing up useless statistics like so. I quit missions mid progress because real life concerns are always top priority. When it's not that,it's the some ego based morons who get into arguments over dumb stuff thru the squad chat mid mission making it even more difficult for the other person and myself because we now have to carry the two.

Anyhow,if you run a squishy frame, especially for a lv100+ infested mission,make sure your weapons are turned to deal some great damage. I have no issues in tight spaces,at all, without prime mods or with. You probably run a meta setup,which generally is great for farming and so forth,have you tried using something a bit out of the powerhouse meta? For example,I run a volnus regardless of what frame when I do infested,why? It stuns with combos and reaches many enemies at once. Utility over efficiency if one may say,still takes 3 hits with a 2 forma build.

Juggs,they are always a pain,but you can evade them in combat and you know,not get their attention from the start. Takes around what,45 seconds after lotus/lights flickers. Maybe longer then that,I wouldn't know because when I solo,I kill the thing by agroing it's main attacks. You can Dodge them even in tight spaces.

[DarkFlameZealot]

7 hours ago, Raspberri said:

Name a non-polearm or non-whip melee weapon that scales all the way to end-game on all enemies. (Daggers don't count because you can't do finishers on every type of enemy.)

Kuva Guardians are 100% immune to normal CC, only stunnable with Void Blast and only distracted by other enemies (including radiation procced Grineer). That can be fixed with invisibility, of course, since they won't bother to target me in the first place. But guess how many frames are capable of invisibility, out of 34 in the game? Just four frames (Ivara, Loki, Ash, Octavia). That's good variety, isn't it? Also, invisibility alone is not going to help when it's mobile defense, which means viable options are further limited to only three frames (Ivara, Loki, Octavia). I get that this game is generally balanced around a full 4-man squad, but there needs to be more options for solo, honestly.

Non dagger/polearm/whip?

1. Silva & Aegis

2. Sigma & Octanis

3. Prisma Skana

4. Broken War

5. Galatine Fekkin Prime

6. War

7. Destreza

8. Venka Prime

9. Endura

10. Jet Kitty (Jat Kittag)

11. Kogake Prime

12....want me to keep going? Cause I sure as hell can

 

If you're still finding issues, then it's your trash mod setup that needs to be fixed and your overall skill level is too low to be playing solo anymore at that level on enemy difficulty. 

Kuva guardians take 2 seconds to break with a void blast + dash through their armor. Provided you have a good weapon, they should die in about 5 seconds tops. Want to know who else has good survivability? Saryn, Frost, Inaros, Nidus, Nekros, Wukong.

 

I've no issues with any mission in the game except the now-removed trials. It's not a "fighting the game" issue; it's a "you're not thinking properly" issue.

 

P.S.- the fact that you bring up mission completion as a fighting tool is pathetic. Do I care about finishing a mission after my riven is completed? Nope, why should I stay for another 2-4 minutes when I could get 2 more rivens done at the same time? I'm MR25 and have probably around an 80% completion because of rivens and/or challenge completion/connection issues.

Edited February 27, 2018 by DarkFlameZealot

[Snorvyn]

4 hours ago, Raspberri said:

I also struggle to see how your alleged ability to wipe out tilesets can be justified when your mission completion rate is only 87%. Quite a lot of big talk from a guy who won't/can't complete 13% of his missions (most MR 20+ I meet generally have a 92-95% mission completion rate).

 

dude....i am thankful that you looked into my profile. but i just quit a lot of missions. Why should i be bothered with leechers, players who bring useless gear to the mission? I am just quiting some. and as some others mentioned above, sometimes you just quit mission whenever your objective (as riven) is done. Mission completion rate is most useless stat (especially after PoE Bounties which fail on their own all the time). Tbh you are the only player ive senn who'd actually talk about that stat. 
So yeah. if thats the thing you are gonna hold into i wouldnt bother explaining to you how i complete probably 98%+ of missions which i stay to the end

[Raspberry]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

Anyhow,if you run a squishy frame, especially for a lv100+ infested mission,make sure your weapons are turned to deal some great damage. I have no issues in tight spaces,at all, without prime mods or with. You probably run a meta setup,which generally is great for farming and so forth,have you tried using something a bit out of the powerhouse meta? For example,I run a volnus regardless of what frame when I do infested,why? It stuns with combos and reaches many enemies at once. Utility over efficiency if one may say,still takes 3 hits with a 2 forma build.

No matter how perfect the setup is, though, the simple fact that enemies at that level can instantly kill well over half the frames cannot be ignored. 100% CC/stunlock all the time is often not possible, since most methods still leave small, milliseconds-long windows of opportunity for enemies to manage a single strike. And that's all they need. For example, all it takes is for me to fall off the map ONCE, and all my resistances will be removed and my Warframe will play the hard-landing animation that prevents me from being able to fight or defend myself for ONE SECOND. But one second is more than enough time to be dealt a lethal blow. Mistakes like that don't happen often, but when it is done, there's nothing I can do to attempt to correct it.

Another scenario is when I do enter my Operator and disarm Kuva Guardians to make them vulnerable to damage, but time spent doing this is time spent NOT killing other enemies. If an enemy manages to avoid the CC during the chaos, I'm guaranteed to take damage from it the moment I return to my frame (which by the way, Transference also takes time out of combat because it's an animation and not instantaneous). If it's not a stray Charger but a Kuva Shield Lancer, that damage will almost always be lethal. This is because enemy AI has infinitely fast reaction time when alerted, so all they need is an attack that isn't telegraphed, like shooting hitscan guns. That's why squishy frames that can't go invisible are pretty much unviable, and even tanky frames will sometimes struggle to retain very much hp. I'll still "easily" complete pretty much every mission with 0-2 deaths, but I won't be happy whenever the slightest mistake I make is punished with death and not just a lot of damage.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Raspberri

[(PSN)Glitchoid]

1 hour ago, Raspberri said:

No matter how perfect the setup is, though, the simple fact that enemies at that level can instantly kill well over half the frames cannot be ignored. 100% CC/stunlock all the time is often not possible, since most methods still leave small, milliseconds-long windows of opportunity for enemies to manage a single strike. And that's all they need. For example, all it takes is for me to fall off the map ONCE, and all my resistances will be removed and my Warframe will play the hard-landing animation that prevents me from being able to fight or defend myself for ONE SECOND. But one second is more than enough time to be dealt a lethal blow. Mistakes like that don't happen often, but when it is done, there's nothing I can do to attempt to correct it.

Another scenario is when I do enter my Operator and disarm Kuva Guardians to make them vulnerable to damage, but time spent doing this is time spent NOT killing other enemies. If an enemy manages to avoid the CC during the chaos, I'm guaranteed to take damage from it the moment I return to my frame (which by the way, Transference also takes time out of combat because it's an animation and not instantaneous). If it's not a stray Charger but a Kuva Shield Lancer, that damage will almost always be lethal. This is because enemy AI has infinitely fast reaction time when alerted, so all they need is an attack that isn't telegraphed, like shooting hitscan guns. That's why squishy frames that can't go invisible are pretty much unviable, and even tanky frames will sometimes struggle to retain very much hp. I'll still "easily" complete pretty much every mission with 0-2 deaths, but I won't be happy whenever the slightest mistake I make is punished with death and not just a lot of damage.

So your overall complaint is because you made a mistake you get severe punishment for it? Isn't that what "end game" means for a high risk high rewards concept?

That's cute. Run more survival based mods,like ya know,vitality etc.

Go play Dark Souls one,I bet you wouldn't enjoy it at all because you can't control the environment of enemies AI's.

Seriously tho,I go solo on any frame I choose in kuvas. The only time I face any struggle is when the siphon (Eris tileset) is in the hallway. It's not even the enemies I struggles with,it's the clouds that get lost amongst the crowds at the beginning.

To put it short,prioritize your targets,run more reliable solo gear and get better. I'm mr16,350 hrs played in missions. Should be easy for you if I can manage while running around with Mag Prime solo & not using her bubble builds. 

[Raspberry]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Glitchoid said:

So your overall complaint is because you made a mistake you get severe punishment for it? Isn't that what "end game" means for a high risk high rewards concept?

That's cute. Run more survival based mods,like ya know,vitality etc.

Go play Dark Souls one,I bet you wouldn't enjoy it at all because you can't control the environment of enemies AI's.

Seriously tho,I go solo on any frame I choose in kuvas. The only time I face any struggle is when the siphon (Eris tileset) is in the hallway. It's not even the enemies I struggles with,it's the clouds that get lost amongst the crowds at the beginning.

To put it short,prioritize your targets,run more reliable solo gear and get better. I'm mr16,350 hrs played in missions. Should be easy for you if I can manage while running around with Mag Prime solo & not using her bubble builds. 

You don't farm resources or items in Dark Souls. You get story progression, and the end doesn't take very long to reach. It is also not a horde game, although you're still outnumbered (in a way that makes it more slow-paced as each enemy is individually difficult). This is Warframe, a F2P designed to have a years-long life, probably well over a decade long. It is also a true horde shooter where you're always overwhelmingly outnumbered, and so you have to somehow make 1v20 fights go in your favor. It's like comparing apples to oranges, one would say.

In the case of Warframe, the punishment for mistakes is more severe than just starting the same section over, you have a limit until you lose it all. You're here not for progression by any normal means but you're here to actually collect items that can be rather tedious to get.

Also, survivability mods are of course a no-brainer, but if even they don't work, then what? If a 1110 hp Nidus with 780 armor (Vitality + Steel Fiber) loses all of his hp to a single lvl 95 Kuva Hyekka Master in half a second, then we are talking about some balance issues. I know Nidus' 2 is solid CC, but it's not spammable. Even with Larva Burst to detonate it to recast, the process takes far longer than half a second. Nidus also has his 3, but it can be dispelled by Scrambus auras, and it's difficult to use when on the move (versus just camping) because it has a range limit.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Raspberri

[(PSN)Glitchoid]

1 hour ago, Raspberri said:

You don't farm resources or items in Dark Souls. You get story progression, and the end doesn't take very long to reach. It is also not a horde game, although you're still outnumbered (in a way that makes it more slow-paced as each enemy is individually difficult). This is Warframe, a F2P designed to have a years-long life, probably well over a decade long. It is also a true horde shooter where you're always overwhelmingly outnumbered, and so you have to somehow make 1v20 fights go in your favor. It's like comparing apples to oranges, one would say.

In the case of Warframe, the punishment for mistakes is more severe than just starting the same section over, you have a limit until you lose it all. You're here not for progression by any normal means but you're here to actually collect items that can be rather tedious to get.

Also, survivability mods are of course a no-brainer, but if even they don't work, then what? If a 1110 hp Nidus with 780 armor (Vitality + Steel Fiber) loses all of his hp to a single lvl 95 Kuva Hyekka Master in half a second, then we are talking about some balance issues. I know Nidus' 2 is solid CC, but it's not spammable. Even with Larva Burst to detonate it to recast, the process takes far longer than half a second. Nidus also has his 3, but it can be dispelled by Scrambus auras, and it's difficult to use when on the move (versus just camping) because it has a range limit.

Yeah,you haven't really played dark souls or it's series/brothers.

So you admit it's not the tileset,but an issue with the enemies themself after this,plus your most recent post. 

Which is it? The tileset being to tedious or the enemies tearing apart your frame like it's nothing? 

Don't be a hypocrite,learn to survive and adapt. You can always improve your style,gameplay and even your weak frames survivability by learning from your loses. Want a specific item? Run with a bunch of spectars if you want to play solo. Watch just how useful they really are.

I'm done,Good luck & Happy Hunting,tenno.

[(XBOX)THANOTOS OMEGA]

@(PS4)Glitchoid i believe OP's point is that the enemies shredding you so quickly on a tileset where they can hide around so many blind corners negates any real effort, i mean at level 60 enemies can wreck a tanky built Valkyr in seconds, what chance does a Mag have if she rounds a corner and there's a few corrupted crewman there?

[hooperinius]

Kinda funny because I generally like the "Infested" tilesets but the ice planets drive me nuts.

That and the Ceres Kuva missions where the Kuva is in a closet on the other side of the map.

[LuckyCharm]

I don't mind tight corridors. It's less of "omg i'm stuck in here with all these enemies" than it is "GWAHAHA You're stuck in here with me!" 

 

That said I do hate fighting the juggernaut with its bs damage and invulnerability. I can take all the other enemies just not that one. My main gripe about the eris tileset is that the color's and lighting are just so bad. If i'm invisible it's like ALL the lights in the ship turn off. Oh and the kuva is almost invisible.