{UPDATED} DE, please stop FORCING players into the Plains! There is around 300missions in the game, STOP FOCUSING ON ONE! It's boring, it's repetetive and I'm tired of having the Plains shoved down my throat!

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

54 minutes ago, Minatos_Gordem said:

Complaints about being forced onto the Plains is almost funny when I read them. First, nobody is FORCING you to the Plains. You're not required to unlock that riven, you can always sell it for platinum, endo, or credits. You're not required to make the Zaws or the Amps, and you're not required to get MR 25. And you're also not required to get all the arcanes, plenty of builds do just fine without them and if you MUST have them then shell out some plat you earned from doing other missions. When the Plains first hit you know what I saw? A bunch of people complaining on the forums about how the Plains were too isolated from the rest of the game because resources from the Plains were only used on Plains things and once you got all the Cetus standing there wasn't a reason to go there anymore except for the grindfest that is the Quills. Now guess what, DE has added more reasons to go to the Plains and all that's happening is a bunch of babies crying about having to crawl out of the dark, cramped corridors Warframe has spent so much of its life in and do something. If you don't agree with how the game is going, perhaps you should find a different game.

 This is the most braindead type of counter argument anyone can make. You don't have to play this game, play something else. These are the types of people who are not ok with you saying there is anything wrong with their holy cows. This game is great, it does a lot of things that other games should use as an example, but it does a lot of crappy things too and people should feel comfortable voicing those concerns without fanboys saying to shutup.

 Cetus has the worst economic design and integration into a game that could have been implemented. DE have admitted themselves to not having anyone on their staff who has experience in setting up virtual economies so if you think otherwise, perhaps you should reconsider your viewpoint when the people you are defending admit to the implementations suboptimal quality.

 If you cannot grasp the concept of how this is enforcing the use of Cetus and PoE, if you legitimately think selling rivens for endo and credits of that you MUST otherwise sell it in trade instead of going to Cetus, your understanding of game design leaves me to conclude your voice isn't part of the conversation. Come back when you are willing to discuss the points realistically and intelligently.

 Are the Grineer tilesets all cramped corridors? How about the Ice Corpus? Orokin tileset with its massive rooms? LUA with it's similar to Orokin design but with many open to atmosphere areas? Actually now that I think about it, everything outside of the spaceship tilesets includes a fair variety of larger tiles with multiple entrances usually. So I have no idea what you are saying with cramped spaces. Maybe you are claustrophobic?

 Again, if you find it so problematic to critique a problem you see in something you love then you will get nowhere in life mate. If you truly believe when there is an issue with something your response should be to walk away, you will get absolutely nowhere in life and I cannot support that view in relation to discussing game design or anything else for that matter.

Edited March 27, 2018 by (PS4)vektorwithak

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

12 minutes ago, rainightmimi said:

They put off The sacrifice、Hydroid Prime Trailer again and again.I don't expect too much hope of Zephyr Prime Trailer.

POV for me is just another map with endless runing mission. for now.

 

 

 I'm not fussed about the trailers to be honest, they are a cool little lore thing but I'm more concerned with real content like Sacrifice. I also wish there was some incentive to replaying quests because some of them are quite interesting. Can you imagine a Sorti being to play through X quest with Y modifiers like must use Z frame for example? That would be awesome and simple to implement. I personally think quests are under utilized when it comes to content, reusing them in ways similar to Destiny 2 strikes would be a good idea as long as they can provide reasonable rewards.

[NeithanDiniem]

4 hours ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

 OMFG I forgot about arcanse being locked away there too now. Thanks for reminding me... Even more proof of the Plains focus.

I'm having a tantrum for pointing out a tunnel vision from a developer who took a game known for one thing and pushed that aside to focus on a completely different, almost to the opposite end of the spectrum gameplay wise, but there is no problem with that in your mind?

 We have a horrible precedent set here and that is that with each Open Worlds addition to the game, though it will represent less than 0.5% of the missions in the game, it will require you to go there for hundreds of hours to obtain a large percentage of available items/power added to the game following after it's release. If you don;t want all of this gameplay, well tough. Just go without then otherwise go to the open world bandwagon zone, walk around and do mining and fishing for hours upon hours to get that new weapon YOU WANT TO USE FOR COMBAT! The reason you even play this damn game! This is the problem, the main gameplay loop is broken. You need to spends hours not fighting so that you can fight...

 I applaud DE for at least trying something new and hey, some people like it. But there is way more wrong with the Plains and the way content has been contorted to be crammed into the Plains to further force players to get in there than there has been good. Zaws are probably the only net positive to come from the Plains IMO so far.

The developers are evolving their game, the same thing they have done each major update arch. The first year was adding different types of missions and laying the foundation of the game, after that we got clans and competitive alliances, then the following year we got quests, syndicates, and archwing, then we got operators and more quests, now we have open world. Open world came with expansions to archwing, operators, quests, syndicates, and missions. People disliked it when DE swapped from missions to clans, then from clans to quests, others got mad when they focused on operators. This is no different and honestly, complains like this will just fade. They offer zero information that is going to change the direction they are headed because your complaint is essentially "Stop everything you are doing and leave everything unfinished and go back to square one, I want more squares." Frankly, plenty of us are tired of the squares and want something else to go alongside what we already have. Plenty of us don't play this JUST for the weapons.

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

13 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

The developers are evolving their game, the same thing they have done each major update arch. The first year was adding different types of missions and laying the foundation of the game, after that we got clans and competitive alliances, then the following year we got quests, syndicates, and archwing, then we got operators and more quests, now we have open world. Open world came with expansions to archwing, operators, quests, syndicates, and missions. People disliked it when DE swapped from missions to clans, then from clans to quests, others got mad when they focused on operators. This is no different and honestly, complains like this will just fade. They offer zero information that is going to change the direction they are headed because your complaint is essentially "Stop everything you are doing and leave everything unfinished and go back to square one, I want more squares." Frankly, plenty of us are tired of the squares and want something else to go alongside what we already have. Plenty of us don't play this JUST for the weapons.

 Expansions to archwing? How so? You mean the bandaid mobility on such a large environment that uses the AW but not the weapons or is there something else that makes you think AW was added to?

 Operators... Let's be honest, nobody asked for a gimmick extra mode that was 99% useless in most combat situations but requires a massive grind to max out. Operators are a joke, a bigger joke than even focus. They were advertised as having some kind of synergy with our frames in combat and that the two would work together in interesting ways to achieve a goal, instead we spend a few minutes shooting beams from them to drop a shield before going back to the frames to 1 shot a weak spot, rinse and repeat. Operators as a concept have a lot of potential but they fall flat on their face in comparison to that in how they weer actualyl implemented.

Quests have nothing to do with the Plains expansion so not sure why you included that. Of the quests since PoE release only the one that I can think of involves Plains. Correct me if I'm wrong but Sayas is the only quest to involve plains to my knowledge.

 I would be ok with working on operators if they weren't such a pathetic and useless gimmick that feels tacked onto the game just for the sake of it.

 You think I'm supposed to offer information? You clearly cannot get the concept of raising concerns for bad precedents being set from a developer in regards to content that is mostly enjoyed. I'm not here to offer information and if you expect that then you will be sorely dissapointed. This is my personal thoughts on the matter and if you don't agree you are entitled to that, it doesn't make what I am saying here any less relevant to discussions as others seem to share some similar thoughts on the topics.

 I like that you close with a strawman, I never said anything about wanting focus on weapons or anything that could be construed that way, we have plenty of weapons and warframes in the game at present, new ones are always fun to get your hands on but I want something to do with them. Maybe you aren't replying to my post judging from everything you have written so far or perhaps you just didn't read it. I want content, I just don;t want all of the new content to funnel me into the Plains over and over and over when we have over 300 missions in the games star charts that are being mostly ignored to do this.

 I think Zaws as a concept, custom weapons we can build ourselves are the best thing to come from Plains because it is a completely new system that can be expanded on for other weapons and maybe even eventually other things like sentinels and even warframes.

Edited March 27, 2018 by (PS4)vektorwithak

[NeithanDiniem]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

You think I'm supposed to offer information? You clearly cannot get the concept of raising concerns for bad precedents being set from a developer in regards to content that is mostly enjoyed. I'm not here to offer information and if you expect that then you will be sorely dissapointed. This is my personal thoughts on the matter and if you don't agree you are entitled to that, it doesn't make what I am saying here any less relevant to discussions as others seem to share some similar thoughts on the topics.

 I like that you close with a strawman, I never said anything about wanting focus on weapons or anything that could be construed that way, we have plenty of weapons and warframes in the game at present, new ones are always fun to get your hands on but I want something to do with them. Maybe you aren't replying to my post judging from everything you have written so far or perhaps you just didn't read it. I want content, I just don;t want all of the new content to funnel me into the Plains over and over and over when we have over 300 missions in the games star charts that are being mostly ignored to do this.

 I think Zaws as a concept, custom weapons we can build ourselves are the best thing to come from Plains because it is a completely new system that can be expanded on for other weapons and maybe even eventually other things like sentinels and even warframes.

Except whether or not it is a bad precedent is subjective. You personally feel it is bad, and have sought out others to justify your claims while dismissing people that disagree. I disagree. Does that mean my points are less valid just because they are not on par with yours? Am i just going to be dismissed because I don't "get it?"

Also, you did mention that this game was all about weapons, that weapons were why we played this game. That first of all is an assumption, because i can guarantee you that is not why I play this game.

5 hours ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

I'm having a tantrum for pointing out a tunnel vision from a developer who took a game known for one thing and pushed that aside to focus on a completely different, almost to the opposite end of the spectrum gameplay wise, but there is no problem with that in your mind?

 We have a horrible precedent set here and that is that with each Open Worlds addition to the game, though it will represent less than 0.5% of the missions in the game, it will require you to go there for hundreds of hours to obtain a large percentage of available items/power added to the game following after it's release. If you don;t want all of this gameplay, well tough. Just go without then otherwise go to the open world bandwagon zone, walk around and do mining and fishing for hours upon hours to get that new weapon YOU WANT TO USE FOR COMBAT! The reason you even play this damn game! This is the problem, the main gameplay loop is broken. You need to spends hours not fighting so that you can fight...

 I applaud DE for at least trying something new and hey, some people like it. But there is way more wrong with the Plains and the way content has been contorted to be crammed into the Plains to further force players to get in there than there has been good. Zaws are probably the only net positive to come from the Plains IMO so far.

Secondly, your words directly counter that strawman thing there. You want DE to return to the old style of adding mission content using the tile system, give you weapons and frames, and stick to the game as you liked it. So yes, you do want them to prioritize weapons and tilesets. That is all we had before outside of quests, and quests, funnily enough, introduce new things almost every release, which lead to what we have now with PoE. You do not like how the game is going with open world content, even though new content always, always will be built on top of previous large updates. This pattern of updates is not new, and people seriously should expect this sort of thing after 5 years. This is the same exact thing that happens every new resource: almost all the new BPs require it and people complain. They add a new area: all the new stuff goes there and people complain. They add new weapons: They either outclass existing or are worse than existing weapons, and people complain. They add a new mechanic, and following updates all relate to it and people complain. The thing is, most of the time these numbers of people complaining are small compared to the playerbase and are simply the stereotypical vocal minority. The happy majority is quiet, enjoying the content, or continuing to do what they do enjoy. You are not forced to use operators, you yourself said they offer nothing in your opinion. You do not need to use arcanes, primes are plentiful and arcanes are dropping in price like rocks, trade exists. Rivens are unneeded as the guns people lean to for them are already meta and already trump the game content without, so you have no need to do those challenges. Not to mention locked Rivens sell decently enough, more than plenty of the unlocked ones do, so trade is always an option if you dislike the challenge. Zaws are just another weapon, nothing flashy or super special when meta weapons perform just as well. Yes they are a new mechanic, and they are expanding on it by letting the open Venus map give us guns with the same mechanics, and they will probably continue and give us even more on other open maps. Doubt that appeals to you however, given your stance with Plains. Everything Plains offers is content you already dismissed almost completely. Zaws and a few cosmetics are the only things I've seen you praise, and that was small at best. If it doesn't appeal to you, do not play it. You already have dismissed everything else it offers.

So what is the deal now, outside you feel you are entitled to updates that appeal to you personally?

Edited March 27, 2018 by NeithanDiniem

[StrikerTheHedgefox]

I fail to see how the plains is being shoved down anyone's throats. The other content is still there, and other content is still being added... There's lots of good quests and other mission types to do, it's not a requirement to get enjoyment out of the game.

Sure, the plains does have most of the focus right now, it's a relatively new feature, and they're trying to refine it, give it more content and give players more to do in the plains. But again, it's still not a requirement to get enjoyment out of the game. Sure, you do miss out on a few things if you don't want to play it, but that goes with just about anything in Warframe. Hopefully that'll be remedied as they go back to refurbish old non-plains content, and when they bring stuff like the Venus open world, and whatnot. There may yet be more than one place to get your operator decked out, or get these relics in the future.

Either way, if you've really burned out on it, I suggest doing what I do when I've burned out on the existing content- Wait a while, play other games, come back after a little while and be pleasantly surprised at the new stuff.

Edited March 27, 2018 by StrikerTheHedgefox

[NoSpax]

I actually like PoE. But Grineer don't like me there. 

It's refreshing to do something else then shoot, shoot, fear for your life, shoot. 

The only thing I came across is a crash, when entering PoE. It's so hard, it doesn't even dump for uploading. "not enough graphics memory" 

The machine is a 2GB Ram dual core with an Geforce 520 GT. I think with 2 GB VRAM. 

My GF can't play there, so she stays at Cetus but can't do anything as it requires Standing. No fishes, no gems, no bounties. 

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

52 minutes ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

I fail to see how the plains is being shoved down anyone's throats. The other content is still there, and other content is still being added... There's lots of good quests and other mission types to do, it's not a requirement to get enjoyment out of the game.

Sure, the plains does have most of the focus right now, it's a relatively new feature, and they're trying to refine it, give it more content and give players more to do in the plains. But again, it's still not a requirement to get enjoyment out of the game. Sure, you do miss out on a few things if you don't want to play it, but that goes with just about anything in Warframe. Hopefully that'll be remedied as they go back to refurbish old non-plains content, and when they bring stuff like the Venus open world, and whatnot. There may yet be more than one place to get your operator decked out, or get these relics in the future.

Either way, if you've really burned out on it, I suggest doing what I do when I've burned out on the existing content- Wait a while, play other games, come back after a little while and be pleasantly surprised at the new stuff.

 Well I'd ideally be farming the unvaulted prime relics but I'm not going to spend hours in the Plains going in and out over and over again, spending more time flying between mission checkpoints.

 Wouldn't mind getting the last few masteries with Zaws but the amount of grind for each one is ridiculous, I have two already. I really am not interested in the amount of time required in farming the rest of the zaws or exodias to complete my sets.

 I'm less burnt out and more put off by the type of content that is being focused on over the past year and into the next 12+ months with at least 2 more Plains on the way.

Edited March 27, 2018 by (PS4)vektorwithak

[True_Naeblis]

On the relic front, if you want to save a lot of headaches, only do bounties here and there. Get the majority of them by buying packs from syndicates and you'll be much happier. Lucky amps aren't essential, but Arcanes do make a huge difference in pushing into endless content and making sorties more manageable, and a huge draw of this game is the weapons, so people wanting to try Zaws, especially vets with literally no other weapons to build have zero choice but to play Plains to use them, then grind more to guild them to actually get affinity. 

Offering no means of using already existing rep and systems to advance on the Plains, or to ease the grind there is shortsighted design. Making it so that simply gathering, mining, fishing, and enjoying the open space can't be done without constant Grineer interruption is bad design. As of now the Plains is burning out or turning off a lot more players than it leaves satisfied because the focus is clearly how much players can be roped into logging in to grind rather than to actually enjoy playing the game. 

One thing I've never seen from players in clan is discussion about how much fun they had in their last Plains outing, and that's very telling. I also notice that unlike relays, region chat is far short of active on the Plains as people seem to want to get in, get out, and move on. 

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

1 hour ago, True_Naeblis said:

On the relic front, if you want to save a lot of headaches, only do bounties here and there. Get the majority of them by buying packs from syndicates and you'll be much happier. Lucky amps aren't essential, but Arcanes do make a huge difference in pushing into endless content and making sorties more manageable, and a huge draw of this game is the weapons, so people wanting to try Zaws, especially vets with literally no other weapons to build have zero choice but to play Plains to use them, then grind more to guild them to actually get affinity. 

Offering no means of using already existing rep and systems to advance on the Plains, or to ease the grind there is shortsighted design. Making it so that simply gathering, mining, fishing, and enjoying the open space can't be done without constant Grineer interruption is bad design. As of now the Plains is burning out or turning off a lot more players than it leaves satisfied because the focus is clearly how much players can be roped into logging in to grind rather than to actually enjoy playing the game. 

One thing I've never seen from players in clan is discussion about how much fun they had in their last Plains outing, and that's very telling. I also notice that unlike relays, region chat is far short of active on the Plains as people seem to want to get in, get out, and move on. 

 Far too much truth to this. Though as I stated earlier they have admitted to failing on the economy part, they have not done enough to amend the grind of the Plains IMO. You could be a 4 year veteran or a 4 hours new account, both start the Plains on the same footing, though the higher MR will progress faster if they are willing to spend the time in there every day to cap out. I think higher MRs should reward soem amount of bonus % rep gain to all reputations earned, increasing as you rank up. It doesn't need to be a huge amount but even 1% per MR would make a huge difference and a bigger incentive to rank up beyond simply getting more powerful weapons that for the most part are just overkill in most of the WF content.

 I too have never seen anyone excited to hit the Plains, the overall attitude I see is akin to how you treat a chore, it needs to be done to attain X so I'll suck it up and do it as many times as it takes to get X, I've also never seen anyone excited to do their 3rd+ Eidolon hunt, Bounties or resource gathering(including the freaking wisps, dude screw those and how many are required per item).

 From the outside looking in, it seems DE really wanted this content to last far longer than it should ideally, inflating its playtime with ludicrously expensive grinds that have been slightly curbed but not close to enough. Zaws are fun as hell but the pleasure of them is greatly negated by the grind involved in obtaining and gilding them, not to mention the system doesn't promote trying out new combinations due to the costs involved. It's a great concept and I look forward to future iterations but this one is an D- for me, just below a passing grade if you take all the BS involved with them. Why doesn't repping up with Cetus at least grant discounts to Zaws to reward players for the grind?

 So much about Cetus and it's systems are just lackluster and poorly implemented without any forethought into how it would interact with the starchart economy or even how it would reward players for their efforts in the long run in a meaningful way.

[(PSN)s3d_sas]

[Minatos_Gordem]

16 hours ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

 This is the most braindead type of counter argument anyone can make. You don't have to play this game, play something else. These are the types of people who are not ok with you saying there is anything wrong with their holy cows. This game is great, it does a lot of things that other games should use as an example, but it does a lot of crappy things too and people should feel comfortable voicing those concerns without fanboys saying to shutup.

 Cetus has the worst economic design and integration into a game that could have been implemented. DE have admitted themselves to not having anyone on their staff who has experience in setting up virtual economies so if you think otherwise, perhaps you should reconsider your viewpoint when the people you are defending admit to the implementations suboptimal quality.

 If you cannot grasp the concept of how this is enforcing the use of Cetus and PoE, if you legitimately think selling rivens for endo and credits of that you MUST otherwise sell it in trade instead of going to Cetus, your understanding of game design leaves me to conclude your voice isn't part of the conversation. Come back when you are willing to discuss the points realistically and intelligently.

 Are the Grineer tilesets all cramped corridors? How about the Ice Corpus? Orokin tileset with its massive rooms? LUA with it's similar to Orokin design but with many open to atmosphere areas? Actually now that I think about it, everything outside of the spaceship tilesets includes a fair variety of larger tiles with multiple entrances usually. So I have no idea what you are saying with cramped spaces. Maybe you are claustrophobic?

 Again, if you find it so problematic to critique a problem you see in something you love then you will get nowhere in life mate. If you truly believe when there is an issue with something your response should be to walk away, you will get absolutely nowhere in life and I cannot support that view in relation to discussing game design or anything else for that matter.

First, typical "oh because you made an opinion that conflicts with mine I'm automatically going to conclude you're a moron and insult you all the while as I disregard everything you say." And then you proceed to do that and be condescending to everyone who writes an actual argument. And what does 'intelligently' qualify for you? Agreeing? If you find it so problematic to have someone critique the reason you're making a big deal of something, you will get nowhere in life "mate." There are tons of issues in Warframe, and half of them are only people complaining about how things aren't going exactly how they like. The other half are legitimate problems that need to be dealt with, but aren't because DE likes to neglect bugs and stuff to do what they want. Take for instance: pet MOAs, new menu coloring, new skins, two or three weapons released every other month, and the personal quarters. They're all mostly useless and don't deserve to be prioritized over bug fixes and game balances, but that's what they do. They also shouldn't be adding open Venus so close after PoE, but that's what they've chosen to do instead of give us better content.

Second, braindead as compared to what? "Oh this game is adding more content that involves this giant new addition DE added, it's such a problem to me because I can't get over my emotions enough to just burn through said content to get my reward." Because I bet we all TOTALLY love playing missions over and over to grind for a resource or part. No, we burned through that crap without much real thought of "oh I like playing Hydron all the time, it's so interactive and every playthrough is totally unique" or "oh I love farming Equinox's 8 different parts, every Tyl Regor battle is definitely not like the other 200 I've done for this last part." And let's not forget how after you farm for Ivara you can basically do ever spy mission in your sleep. So instead you get in and out of each missions as fast as possible to not suffer as much. Do the same thing with the Plains. Get in, get your desired reward, and get out just like anything else. And besides, what would you rather have, every planet with its own completely isolated open world that is so cut off from the rest of the game that it's awkward? So you just want DE to pop out some new and unique content and completely abandon it right after? I don't know about you but I like everything in my game being tied in just a little bit more than that.

Third, I don't like being forced to play excavation for my 30k cryotic I need for the Sibear but guess what, I do that grind. I really don't like doing ODS or ODD during all of my free time so I can give my clan Hema. Guess what, I'm doing that grind. And it's pretty braindead. I guess you could say the fact that cryotic is being required in a bunch of stuff enforces the fact I got to play excavation. It does, because the only way to get said resource is in a specific mission. Oh no, my world is over because content is locked behind a mission I don't agree with. My solution: I don't continuously play excavation or Derelict. These arguments make it sound like you're forced to repeat the Plains over and over again for hours, even days. Most of the new riven challenges/eidolons can be completed much, much faster than that. Night only lasts 50 minutes so there's your whole 50 minutes of Plains "forced" down your throat for an item you legitimately don't need because you're already doing just fine without it, and depending on the riven challenge it might take awhile, but then again a non-Plains challenge can do the same thing.

I never said anything about Cetus' economy other than that other people complained about how empty it felt after you got everything. The addition of rivens in the Plains doesn't affect the Cetus economy at all. Cetus becomes boring and pointless after you get everything, anybody can see that. No different than the other syndicates: once you get to the top, the only thing you'll need from them is stuff to sell to other people, which I don't think Cetus even has that going for it.

Sure, some tilesets are big, but they're still incredibly tiny compared to the Plains. Exploration value is 0 after the first hour in the Plains just like any tileset, but at least it's got some more to do than Lua, or Earth, or any Corpus set. Sure missions are obnoxiously repeated, but so is literally every other mission mode out there except for a handful of things. Those are: defection, assassination, archwing, orokin sabotage, and certain specific tileset missions. The middle three are much more unique than the others, and defection has so few nodes that it mine as well not exist. The areas that have such unique tilesets make certain missions (namely rescue, spy, and defense) totally unique from others in its category. The other missions types are so repetitive that it's ridiculous, so what's wrong with wanting something different? Why, the Plains brings it. You don't have to go to a location and do a certain goal anymore. Half the time I go to the Plains just to have fun with a sniper rifle and run around or fish. The Plains was DE's first attempt at something, also, so maybe have a bit more patience if they aren't masters enough at the specific type of game design you want. It's going to suck. Accept it, or make a big deal because their first try at something completely new wasn't good enough compared to other companies or what you want. DE is learning as they go along, don't expect everything they do to be absolutely flawless, and don't expect them to just abandon these big projects they hyped up for so long right out the gate.

Also, DE is like a child with power: they would rather be doing what they want rather than what needs to be done. That's why Open Venus suddenly became a huge deal even though Khorra (i think i spelled it right) and Excal Umbra have been worked on and advertised long before Open Venus had even been mentioned. That's also the main reason why we continue to get more buggy content instead of smoother stuff we already have.

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

9 minutes ago, Minatos_Gordem said:

First, typical "oh because you made an opinion that conflicts with mine I'm automatically going to conclude you're a moron and insult you all the while as I disregard everything you say." And then you proceed to do that and be condescending to everyone who writes an actual argument. And what does 'intelligently' qualify for you? Agreeing? If you find it so problematic to have someone critique the reason you're making a big deal of something, you will get nowhere in life "mate." There are tons of issues in Warframe, and half of them are only people complaining about how things aren't going exactly how they like. The other half are legitimate problems that need to be dealt with, but aren't because DE likes to neglect bugs and stuff to do what they want. Take for instance: pet MOAs, new menu coloring, new skins, two or three weapons released every other month, and the personal quarters. They're all mostly useless and don't deserve to be prioritized over bug fixes and game balances, but that's what they do. They also shouldn't be adding open Venus so close after PoE, but that's what they've chosen to do instead of give us better content.

Second, braindead as compared to what? "Oh this game is adding more content that involves this giant new addition DE added, it's such a problem to me because I can't get over my emotions enough to just burn through said content to get my reward." Because I bet we all TOTALLY love playing missions over and over to grind for a resource or part. No, we burned through that crap without much real thought of "oh I like playing Hydron all the time, it's so interactive and every playthrough is totally unique" or "oh I love farming Equinox's 8 different parts, every Tyl Regor battle is definitely not like the other 200 I've done for this last part." And let's not forget how after you farm for Ivara you can basically do ever spy mission in your sleep. So instead you get in and out of each missions as fast as possible to not suffer as much. Do the same thing with the Plains. Get in, get your desired reward, and get out just like anything else. And besides, what would you rather have, every planet with its own completely isolated open world that is so cut off from the rest of the game that it's awkward? So you just want DE to pop out some new and unique content and completely abandon it right after? I don't know about you but I like everything in my game being tied in just a little bit more than that.

Third, I don't like being forced to play excavation for my 30k cryotic I need for the Sibear but guess what, I do that grind. I really don't like doing ODS or ODD during all of my free time so I can give my clan Hema. Guess what, I'm doing that grind. And it's pretty braindead. I guess you could say the fact that cryotic is being required in a bunch of stuff enforces the fact I got to play excavation. It does, because the only way to get said resource is in a specific mission. Oh no, my world is over because content is locked behind a mission I don't agree with. My solution: I don't continuously play excavation or Derelict. These arguments make it sound like you're forced to repeat the Plains over and over again for hours, even days. Most of the new riven challenges/eidolons can be completed much, much faster than that. Night only lasts 50 minutes so there's your whole 50 minutes of Plains "forced" down your throat for an item you legitimately don't need because you're already doing just fine without it, and depending on the riven challenge it might take awhile, but then again a non-Plains challenge can do the same thing.

I never said anything about Cetus' economy other than that other people complained about how empty it felt after you got everything. The addition of rivens in the Plains doesn't affect the Cetus economy at all. Cetus becomes boring and pointless after you get everything, anybody can see that. No different than the other syndicates: once you get to the top, the only thing you'll need from them is stuff to sell to other people, which I don't think Cetus even has that going for it.

Sure, some tilesets are big, but they're still incredibly tiny compared to the Plains. Exploration value is 0 after the first hour in the Plains just like any tileset, but at least it's got some more to do than Lua, or Earth, or any Corpus set. Sure missions are obnoxiously repeated, but so is literally every other mission mode out there except for a handful of things. Those are: defection, assassination, archwing, orokin sabotage, and certain specific tileset missions. The middle three are much more unique than the others, and defection has so few nodes that it mine as well not exist. The areas that have such unique tilesets make certain missions (namely rescue, spy, and defense) totally unique from others in its category. The other missions types are so repetitive that it's ridiculous, so what's wrong with wanting something different? Why, the Plains brings it. You don't have to go to a location and do a certain goal anymore. Half the time I go to the Plains just to have fun with a sniper rifle and run around or fish. The Plains was DE's first attempt at something, also, so maybe have a bit more patience if they aren't masters enough at the specific type of game design you want. It's going to suck. Accept it, or make a big deal because their first try at something completely new wasn't good enough compared to other companies or what you want. DE is learning as they go along, don't expect everything they do to be absolutely flawless, and don't expect them to just abandon these big projects they hyped up for so long right out the gate.

Also, DE is like a child with power: they would rather be doing what they want rather than what needs to be done. That's why Open Venus suddenly became a huge deal even though Khorra (i think i spelled it right) and Excal Umbra have been worked on and advertised long before Open Venus had even been mentioned. That's also the main reason why we continue to get more buggy content instead of smoother stuff we already have.

 Like I said, no intelligent argument. You completely ignore the entire point of the post in multiple massive paragraphs. Not gonna reply to your crying when the premise of my complaint goes over your head.

 Also since you can;t even grasp business basics, the reason skins and weapons keep coming is because that is how they finance the damn game so that they can bug fix and the devs who do the bug fixing are seperate to the ARTISTS who design cosmetics. There is some crossover likely in some of the weapon scripting  but most weapons can be copy pasted mechanic wise so I doubt that many of them take up much time in comparison to other parts of their workload.

 Get a clue, don't take things so personally and if you want to actually have a conversation, try to understand the point of a discussion in the first place before jumping in.

[Minatos_Gordem]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

 Like I said, no intelligent argument. You completely ignore the entire point of the post in multiple massive paragraphs. Not gonna reply to your crying when the premise of my complaint goes over your head.

 Also since you can;t even grasp business basics, the reason skins and weapons keep coming is because that is how they finance the damn game so that they can bug fix and the devs who do the bug fixing are seperate to the ARTISTS who design cosmetics. There is some crossover likely in some of the weapon scripting  but most weapons can be copy pasted mechanic wise so I doubt that many of them take up much time in comparison to other parts of their workload.

 Get a clue, don't take things so personally and if you want to actually have a conversation, try to understand the point of a discussion in the first place before jumping in.

"Don't take things so personally." Because insults are totally not personal, sure. I'm crying? You're the one who wrote the post complaining about everything. You even called it a tantrum. The point of adding skins, weapons, and new content vs bug fixes was to show you how DE does what THEY want. Not what you or the general community want. Sure it finances the game, but they shouldn't be going through money so fast they have to release skins frequently. And if there's a whole team devoted to fixing bugs, they're going about it incredibly slow. I, and many of the people telling you how you're wrong, understand the point of the discussion. It's about how you're tired of how the Plains get so much attention even though it takes up one little spot on the map. That's the whole point. And then you act like all condescending and high and mighty when anyone writes against you. The Plains already had much more content than any other spot on the map, and it's new, and it was a big selling point for a year. Once again, you really think DE is going to just abandon that as soon as possible?

Oh and that's a pretty lame comeback of "you're crying and obviously don't understand anything so i'm not going to argue. And you ignored everything I said even though you went over literally ever point I made in the reply to you." Because you totally didn't just ignore all but the one paragraph you can make an argument out of.

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

24 minutes ago, Minatos_Gordem said:

"Don't take things so personally." Because insults are totally not personal, sure. I'm crying? You're the one who wrote the post complaining about everything. You even called it a tantrum. The point of adding skins, weapons, and new content vs bug fixes was to show you how DE does what THEY want. Not what you or the general community want. Sure it finances the game, but they shouldn't be going through money so fast they have to release skins frequently. And if there's a whole team devoted to fixing bugs, they're going about it incredibly slow. I, and many of the people telling you how you're wrong, understand the point of the discussion. It's about how you're tired of how the Plains get so much attention even though it takes up one little spot on the map. That's the whole point. And then you act like all condescending and high and mighty when anyone writes against you. The Plains already had much more content than any other spot on the map, and it's new, and it was a big selling point for a year. Once again, you really think DE is going to just abandon that as soon as possible?

Oh and that's a pretty lame comeback of "you're crying and obviously don't understand anything so i'm not going to argue. And you ignored everything I said even though you went over literally ever point I made in the reply to you." Because you totally didn't just ignore all but the one paragraph you can make an argument out of.

 I said Rant not tantrum, they are not the same thing. How old are you?

 You keep going on but you repeatedly ignore the point of the post. You can come into a debate about X and start talking about Y and Z, but you shouldn't be so shocked when people don't want to talk about Y and Z. So yes, I am ignoring most of what you say because it's not relevant, if you would like to discuss something else, feel free to make another post but I want to talk about this.

 The general community seems to buy all these things when it comes to cosmetics and weapons so... I guess it is what they want.

 I'm going to take a last 2 minutes to explain this to you one final time so hopefully you get it.

 I am talking about how the Plains content acts like a blackhole, constantly having new items locked to it's content so that you are forced to go there instead of the other 99.5% of the games mission hubs. Rivens are now forcing you to go there. New mods force you to go there. Vaulted relics force you to go there. Arcanes force you to go there. Zaws force you to go there. Operators force you to go there. Pet cosmetics force you to go there. Some of this is fine, but all of it and events make for a vacuum that forces players to either go without, spend plat on items or stay in 1 mission hub that is not randomized like the rest of the games tilesets. The Plains environment is not Warframe and will never be Warframes core. It is just a shiney new distraction that has gotten way too much focus at the expense of other content.

 I don't care about grinding as long as it's within reason and am not complaining about that. This is the nature of crafting based progression.

 I don't care about repeating a particular mission regularly when it needs to be done, such as Hydron for faster leveling, Xini or Io to farm relics, etc. This is the nature of RPG games.

 I don't have any complaints about cosmetics and new weapons being added to the game, without them, there is no game.

 I understand bug fixes can take time to narrow down and solve, especially when the same devs are juggling working on other content.

I do care, when someone comes into a post about something specific, completely misses the point, misrepresents what I have said and then gets upset when they are called out for it.

 Please just stop, you're making yourself look silly and hopefully now you can understand why.

Edited March 27, 2018 by (PS4)vektorwithak

[Minatos_Gordem]

23 hours ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

 

I'm having a tantrum

 

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

7 minutes ago, Minatos_Gordem said:

 

 Look kid, this is going to be hard for you to grasp, but when you take something out of context, it doesn't change the meaning of what was said. I said

"'I'm having a tantrum for pointing out a tunnel vision from a developer who took a game known for one thing and pushed that aside to focus on a completely different, almost to the opposite end of the spectrum gameplay wise, but there is no problem with that in your mind?"

 This is represented as a question, not a statement. I tried mate, but you clearly are too slow of a learner and are so eager to score points in some imaginary feud that I'm not taking part in.

 You jumped into the deep end of a discussion without your floaties on and now your drowning. Just stop.

Edited March 27, 2018 by (PS4)vektorwithak

[Minatos_Gordem]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

 I am talking about how the Plains content acts like a blackhole, constantly having new items locked to it's content so that you are forced to go there instead of the other 99.5% of the games mission hubs. Rivens are now forcing you to go there. New mods force you to go there. Vaulted relics force you to go there. Arcanes force you to go there. Zaws force you to go there. Operators force you to go there. Pet cosmetics force you to go there. Some of this is fine, but all of it and events make for a vacuum that forces players to either go without, spend plat on items or stay in 1 mission hub that is not randomized like the rest of the games tilesets.

Last I checked, you really don't need cosmetics. If you want them, you have to go there. See what you don't understand is that you don't need any of the things you listed. They're nice to have, sure. But you don't need them to win the game. In fact, by the time you come back around to worry about operators and arcanes, you've already beaten the game and anything it can throw at you besides extended endless missions. So you don't need them, and because you don't need them, you're not forced to go to the Plains for them. You're doing it because you wanted to. Most of the "other content" are copy-pasted missions from one node to another based on which tileset they're using. Can missions be freshened up again? Sure, I for one believe capture needs to be more interesting. 

And once again, the Plains is the big new thing DE advertised for a long time that also drew in a lot of players. Do you really expect them to just abandon their newest prize project?

Also, once more time, being condescending to anyone who disagrees with you.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Minatos_Gordem

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

10 minutes ago, Minatos_Gordem said:

Last I checked, you really don't need cosmetics. If you want them, you have to go there. See what you don't understand is that you don't need any of the things you listed. They're nice to have, sure. But you don't need them to win the game. In fact, by the time you come back around to worry about operators and arcanes, you've already beaten the game and anything it can throw at you besides extended endless missions. So you don't need them, and because you don't need them, you're not forced to go to the Plains for them. You're doing it because you wanted to. Most of the "other content" are copy-pasted missions from one node to another based on which tileset they're using. Can missions be freshened up again? Sure, I for one believe capture needs to be more interesting. 

And once again, the Plains is the big new thing DE advertised for a long time that also drew in a lot of players. Do you really expect them to just abandon their newest prize project?

Also, once more time, being condescending to anyone who disagrees with you.

 The entire premise of this game without an end game is literally "the collection of all the things". If a large collection of those collectables are locked in a single node that represents less than .5% of the games missions that is a gross imbalance.

 You don't have to get the prime versions of frames and weapons, you don't need them to "beat the game".

 You don't need to forma all your gear and run min-max builds to "beat the game".

 You don't need to play this game if you want to play a video game.

 If you don't understand the sole real goal of this game is to collect everything, I don't know what you are even doing in this game. Roleplaying? The entire premise of the game is the acquisition of loot so that you can get better loot, to farm harder missions to get even stronger loot.

 Like I said, you're making yourself look silly. You don't get the basic premise of the post, the basic premise of the game you are discussing or even just the basics of a discussion(especially with your out of context misrepresentation nonsense). Fight that childish urge to reply, you have nothing of value to add based on what you have said so far and go play a game.

 Or reply again... :P Gives me something entertaining to read in between matches.

[Ottofyre]

 

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 6:34 PM, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

 Some of us don't want to play this new game mode experiment that is an attempt to appeal to younger crowds who want to walk around and explore, kids who grew up on Minecraft and other openworld game. This is a musou game, where combat is fast and powerful with interesting weapons and frames.

One of the first widely successful open world games was the original Elite. The Ultima games, Wasteland and Seven Cities of Gold were also open world games. All these games came out in the 1980's. I assure you many old-timers like me love open world games.

I'd offer more counter arguments, but since your original post is in an undeniably hostile tone you clearly aren't here for discussion and just want to pitch a fit. 

[Minatos_Gordem]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

 The entire premise of this game without an end game is literally "the collection of all the things". If a large collection of those collectables are locked in a single node that represents less than .5% of the games missions that is a gross imbalance.

 You don't have to get the prime versions of frames and weapons, you don't need them to "beat the game".

 You don't need to forma all your gear and run min-max builds to "beat the game".

 You don't need to play this game if you want to play a video game.

 If you don't understand the sole real goal of this game is to collect everything, I don't know what you are even doing in this game. Roleplaying? The entire premise of the game is the acquisition of loot so that you can get better loot, to farm harder missions to get even stronger loot.

 Like I said, you're making yourself look silly. You don't get the basic premise of the post, the basic premise of the game you are discussing or even just the basics of a discussion(especially with your out of context misrepresentation nonsense). Fight that childish urge to reply, you have nothing of value to add based on what you have said so far and go play a game.

 Or reply again... :P Gives me something entertaining to read in between matches.

Pretty sure the goal of a game is for the player to have fun unless they're specifically designed to clean out your wallet (and those are identified pretty fast.) I will admit Warframe sucks at that because people feel obligated to grind endlessly to fulfill their need to feel accomplished by collecting everything and get an ego boost. Sometimes I'm a victim of the urge to collect everything, then I do a mission to get it and realize how unfun it is. Personally, I find Warframe fun because I can hop on and mindlessly destroy a bunch of nonexistant digital characters with ease to reduce some stress. I'm not here to farm and I'm not here for all the things. I'm probably not the only one who feels that way. If you play games just to reach the "sole real goal" of it, then you're playing for the wrong things. Instead of viewing every new task as a chore, come back later when you view it as something fun. Granted some things will never be fun on Warframe, but at least it'll improve some of your outlook on the content locked away. How much is actually locked behind the Plains? Some arcanes, Operator stuff which you explicitly said was useless anyways so no loss there, Zaws, certain riven challenges, and some mod sets. Compared to the multitude of mods, weapons, warframes, missions, and riven challenges outside of the Plains that's still small.

If you think making fun of a "kid" is fun, maybe you need to take a look at yourself because that's pretty sick.

[KillerSiri]

21 hours ago, (PS4)vektorwithak said:

really hope those spider enemies are not all limited to the Plains like the Ghouls are. Many of these new enemy types would make the rest of the game so much more interesting if they are sprinkled throughout the star chart, especially at higher levels.

Not gonna really argue for either side here, but I am curious: Where would you put the Ghouls in Grineer levels outside of plains?  I mean the main mechanic is that they pop up to sneak attack you (while shouting and shooting very loudly).  

 

Just curious how that would work nothing more.

[seprent]

Thanks for the laugh mates personally only thought my younger cousin was capable of such tantrum throwing humor vektor is delivering while i can see his points his delivery is freaking hilarious have a good one everyone as to people trying to debate this man i feel its not going to get anywhere but good luck

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

5 minutes ago, Minatos_Gordem said:

Pretty sure the goal of a game is for the player to have fun unless they're specifically designed to clean out your wallet (and those are identified pretty fast.) I will admit Warframe sucks at that because people feel obligated to grind endlessly to fulfill their need to feel accomplished by collecting everything and get an ego boost. Sometimes I'm a victim of the urge to collect everything, then I do a mission to get it and realize how unfun it is. Personally, I find Warframe fun because I can hop on and mindlessly destroy a bunch of nonexistant digital characters with ease to reduce some stress. I'm not here to farm and I'm not here for all the things. I'm probably not the only one who feels that way. If you play games just to reach the "sole real goal" of it, then you're playing for the wrong things. Instead of viewing every new task as a chore, come back later when you view it as something fun. Granted some things will never be fun on Warframe, but at least it'll improve some of your outlook on the content locked away. How much is actually locked behind the Plains? Some arcanes, Operator stuff which you explicitly said was useless anyways so no loss there, Zaws, certain riven challenges, and some mod sets. Compared to the multitude of mods, weapons, warframes, missions, and riven challenges outside of the Plains that's still small.

If you think making fun of a "kid" is fun, maybe you need to take a look at yourself because that's pretty sick.

 Try to define fun because it is a subjective term. Some people enjoy grinding, some enjoy social aspects, some enjoy cosmetics and making their characters look as cool as possible in their opinion, some just like challenges, some like PVP, some like speed running, the list goes on. Calling something fun doesn't really mean much.

It's fine to make fun of others, especially when they are making a fool of themselves. This is unfortunately the only way some people learn is through embarrassment, not all people but clearly some.

[(PSN)vektorwithak]

7 minutes ago, KillerSiri said:

Not gonna really argue for either side here, but I am curious: Where would you put the Ghouls in Grineer levels outside of plains?  I mean the main mechanic is that they pop up to sneak attack you (while shouting and shooting very loudly).  

 

Just curious how that would work nothing more.

 Most of the Earth tilesets have large tile rooms with earthen floor, so too do many of the shipyards tilesets with the muddy ground, just think of Xini for example. Hell even most of Mars is Arid dirt.

 There are plenty of missions these things can easily be placed in, the problem is that Plains is the focus so everything goes there.