Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale

[Hypernaut1]

So if Kuva does scale- does it start lower than it is now and scale up?  Does it scale up from 200 after 5? Basically asking this a buff? Does it start at 20?

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[fluffysnowcap]

7 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So if Kuva does scale- does it start lower than it is now and ends high?  Does it scale from 200 after 5? Basically asking this a buff? Does it start at 20?

 

 

3 hours ago, fluffysnowcap said:

Have you not read any of my suggestions? Ok here they are in bullet points this time.

 

• Allow players to SOLO extract from survival mission and keep that loot.

 

• Add a void style scaling to all endless missions with the fifth rotation bonus being a planet rare resource, Kuva on the Kuva fortress.

 

• Add spy like catches to all short missions that contains relics, mods, endo and so on. To help increase the Loot variety on the star chart so you can acquire endless only relics without requiring to run a endless mission

Void fissure scaling repeats on a 25 minute rotation and caps after 4 rotations at a flat 2x for all reward's. How is that broken?

[AJ5511]

7 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

It's when people purposefully misconstrue anothers point, it's when people put words in someone elses mouth, it's when you basically lie to give yourself an easy argument that I call you out for your strawman. That has absolutely nothing to do with opinion, and everything to do with dishonest posting.

And basically nothing of real use comes out of 14 pages of discussion...

[fluffysnowcap]

I have tried, but I can't meat some one in the middle if they accuse me of putting words in there mouth for voicing what I think they ment.

As well as being told I want to Rouen the game for coming up with a few changes that could improve the experience for a wide group of people.

[Hypernaut1]

33 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

 

Void fissure scaling repeats on a 25 minute rotation and caps after 4 rotations at a flat 2x for all reward's. How is that broken?

I've never said I was against fissure style scaling, but you're idea is to have an extra Kuva reward every 25 minutes? Can that even be considered scaling Kuva though? Wouldn't that just lead to 25 and out? {Then why not make it at 20) Either that bonus is too low to mean anything, or it's a substantial lump sum and becomes the survival end goal. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[NukeSpear]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

The TL:DR of your entire "argument" is basically; "Kuva scaling is bad, because I say it is."

That's literally all you have. No evidence to explain why it's bad. No evidence to back up your claim that it would become bad. Nothing. Assumptions and ridiculous logic.

Thanks for this. I dont believe the OP will care, but its important some people with brains come up and make islands of common sense so the sea of BS becomes evident.

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I've never said I was against fissure style scaling, but you're idea is to have an extra Kuva reward every 25 minutes? Can that even be considered scaling Kuva though? Wouldn't that just lead to 25 and out? {Then why not make it at 20) Either that bonus is too low to mean anything, or it's a substantial lump sum and becomes the survival end goal. 

Yes, that is scaling because after 15 minutes you would receive a 1.25x resource booster which would subsequently apply to Kuva. The same would happen again at 40 minutes for a total of 1.5x resources.

The 5th reward is not the main feature of their post, but rather the replacement for upgraded relics that you get when running fissure missions.

[NukeSpear]

47 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So if Kuva does scale- does it start lower than it is now and scale up?  Does it scale up from 200 after 5? Basically asking this a buff? Does it start at 20?

 

The entire scaling thing is a bigger problem that involves all endless missions in game. The rewards don't scale according to the enemy levels, not just in Kuva survival, but every endless in the game.

Anyway, I was doing some calc, and I believe Kuva survival could work if the rewards were something like: 30 60 90 120 .... in a linear progression. The exact numbers, however, would need some more precise calculations. This was just an example.

I am opposite to the idea of a cap, however. If you can survive in a mission full of lvl 500 enemies, you deserve a reward that adequately corresponds to that level. Not the same reward anyone can get killing lvl 80 enemies.

[fluffysnowcap]

11 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Wouldn't that just lead to 25 and out? {Then why not make it at 20)

It would be 30 and out, and the idea of the fifth increment containing a planit rare was more for farming nuraral sencers and orican cells as well as other rare loot. Having of give kuva in the fortress is more of a matter of having a fitting reward and adding kuva to the other endless on that tile set.

[fluffysnowcap]

36 minutes ago, NukeSpear said:

The entire scaling thing is a bigger problem that involves all endless missions in game. The rewards don't scale according to the enemy levels, not just in Kuva survival, but every endless in the game.

Anyway, I was doing some calc, and I believe Kuva survival could work if the rewards were something like: 30 60 90 120 .... in a linear progression. The exact numbers, however, would need some more precise calculations. This was just an example.

@NukeSpear I think we would be better off asking for the void fissure sailing to be applied to all endless mission's and for it to affect kuva, instead of asking for endless kuva to have a endless linear sailing on kuva. However this might be me being greedy and wanting a buff to the resource rate for plastid farming.

Dam dojo gentrification costing years worth of grinding.

[zWhiteKz]

Kuva reward without a "rooftop" yes it will destroy part of the game.

1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

The TL:DR of your entire "argument" is basically; "Kuva scaling is bad, because I say it is."

u tell me that i make assumption about other and now u can make assumption agaisnt me, ok then.

1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

No evidence to explain why it's bad. No evidence to back up your claim that it would become bad.

Matket, Enemies scaling aka Hp/Armor ( Effective Health Pool), Backlash from void key system, Exponential scaling from Hour 1 - 4, Base game mechanic doesnt support/handle enemies scale pass ~180 ( for testing Simulacrum - Real testing = Wait ~2hr to test), in DE eyes Kuva is Special resource that "can/may/will" be use for something "special", "Corridor loot and shooter", Enforcing people to stay for long for maximizing reward ( can be fixed with a checkpoint/leave mechanic like fluffy said ), LS spawn depend on the number of enemies kill per second hence solo < team ( 2, 3,4),etc.... do i need to go on?

[NukeSpear]

1 minute ago, fluffysnowcap said:

@NukeSpear I think we would be better off asking for the void fissure sailing to be applied to all endless mission's and for it to affect kuva, instead of asking for endless kuva to have a endless linear sailing on kuva. However this might be me being greedy and wanting a buff to the resource rate for plastid farming.

Dam dojo gentrification costing years worth of grinding.

If it's implemented after a deep, thorough planning, it could work. Boosting Kuva gains, or any endless mission gains, in a way similar to fissure missions. That's not a bad idea at all.

[zWhiteKz]

Sure let say all endless mission now scaling like fissure, what happen after that? WF become what a less grind-shooter? sure that good right ? let say yes > why do we need booster a gain? are for people who want even faster grind right? i mean like u said, there is no downside of having more resource to make stuff right? then why we need resource and a progression system again it if just simply ask for someone can carry u throught a long as endless mission and get all the resource u ever need? That a good designed? Seriously one thing change gonna make a ripple effect which can be good and bad and we dont know if the good can out weight the bad. In my opinion the bad is outweight the good if endless scaling reward is implement. Not to mention this will force ( u can say the opposite but this will happen ) player to stay longer in mission which again can be a good and bad thing and in my opinion rewarding that make player have to stay for longer is not good

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, zWhiteKz said:

Kuva reward without a "rooftop" yes it will destroy part of the game.

You mean the Riven economy, which again isn't even a bad thing. Once again, no one is even asking for unlimited Kuva scaling.

1 minute ago, zWhiteKz said:

u tell me that i make assumption about other and now u can make assumption agaisnt me, ok then.

You clearly don't know how to use words properly. What I said is not an assumption, it is stone cold fact; you literally have no argument against Kuva scaling other than "It's bad because I say it is".

4 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Matket

Riven economy, which once again is not even a bad thing. 

4 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Enemies scaling aka Hp/Armor ( Effective Health Pool), 

How does that have anything to do with Kuva being bad?

4 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Backlash from void key system

What backlash?

6 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Base game mechanic doesnt support/handle enemies scale pass ~180

Again, what does this have to do with Kuva?

6 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

in DE eyes Kuva is Special resource that "can/may/will" be use for something "special"

And?

7 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

"Corridor loot and shooter"

What does this have to do with Kuva?

7 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Enforcing people to stay for long for maximizing reward ( can be fixed with a checkpoint/leave mechanic like fluffy said )

*Brings up a problem and solution to said problem in the same sentence*

9 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

LS spawn depend on the number of enemies kill per second hence solo < team ( 2, 3,4),etc.... do i need to go on?

No I don't think you do. You've made it very clear that you once again have no idea what you are talking about and are using paper thin excuses to try and back yourself up.

Just admit that Kuva scaling would not be a problem at all. Stop continuing to post these utterly ludicrous replies full of complete BS.

[fluffysnowcap]

2 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

...Matket, "..." Backlash from void key system, ...

Saying the word matket isn't Even English, assuming in good faith you ment market. Having more kuva will increase the amount of rolls on riven mods, resulting on more better rivens, there for reducing the Price of rivens as you take out the roll factor and some RNG from the price.

Now as for The void relic back lash, I disdistinctly remember the back lash being over losing the option to get multiple prime parts from a single key, and making it so a keys here became one prime part per 4 used relic's compared to 4 primed parts per 4 tower keys.

 

(Warning I chopped bits out of zWhiteKz's post to respong to, I have not left it in full to help add clarity to what I was responding to, I did not do this with the intent to quote mine him or miss represent what he ment to say)

[fluffysnowcap]

6 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

why do we need booster a gain? are for people who want even faster grind right?

I have tried to make a compelling argument to have a way to do it with Gameplay, balancing around booster is what pay to win games do.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

6 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

let say yes > why do we need booster a gain?

DE are obviously not going to heap resources on us in these missions. You'll still need to buy boosters for it to be most effective. And once again; Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.

8 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

then why we need resource and a progression system again it if just simply ask for someone can carry u throught a long as endless mission and get all the resource u ever need?

People do that anyway right now. Again, having resources is not a bad thing. You'll still have to grind Mastery in order to unlock weapons.

10 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

In my opinion the bad is outweight the good

Good to know you're at least dropping the "My opinions are facts" rubbish at least. However, your opinion is a poor one since you base it off fear-mongering and the assumption that Warframe will collapse as soon as survival missions get some sort of decent reward.

11 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

if endless scaling reward is implement.

I'm getting so sick and tired of repeating Scaling caps to you over and over and over and over.

12 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Not to mention this will force ( u can say the opposite but this will happen ) player to stay longer in mission

No it would not force anyone to do anything, as it is not endless. Do you see people being forced to stay in Fissure missions? No. Your "it will happen" assurance is made completely false just by simply looking at how people play Void Fissures.

 

[zWhiteKz]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

How does that have anything to do with Kuva being bad?

kuva scale more when u stay in a mission longer? yes? then enemies scaling have nothing to do of kuva endless? yes they do 

9 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

You mean the Riven economy, which again isn't even a bad thing. Once again, no one is even asking for unlimited Kuva scaling.

Not just the Riven economy, more kuva = more rolls (can be good nor bad) and u know everyone gonna go for the meta stats aka damage mutli crit crit damage and then wat? riven just become a slot to bump up damage rather than interesting mechanic ? aka -project speed, + project speed, -damage, or ultility like more mag size cause u dont want to reload? let be honest if this happen and people can just pull the slot all day then they will do that rather than play WF.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

*Brings up a problem and solution to said problem in the same sentence*

THIS IS NOT IN THE GAME AT THE MOMENT

14 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Just admit that Kuva scaling would not be a problem at all. Stop continuing to post these utterly ludicrous replies full of complete BS.

U said that i denied people ideas and then u can denied my idea without point out where i was wrong nor may be a sollution to fix this? wow thanks genius

15 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

What backlash?

if the void key system is ok then why DE change it and people like it?

13 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

Now as for The void relic back lash, I disdistinctly remember the back lash being over losing the option to get multiple prime parts from a single key, and making it so a keys here became one prime part per 4 used relic's compared to 4 primed parts per 4 tower keys.

This is the problem. When a person have only one key and want that part and try and try in 1 mission for a very long time, do u think it fun? not for me

11 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

I have tried to make a compelling argument to have a way to do it with Gameplay, balancing around booster is what pay to win games do.

when did i try balance the game around booster? 

[zWhiteKz]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

DE are obviously not going to heap resources on us in these missions. You'll still need to buy boosters for it to be most effective. And once again; Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.Scaling caps.

People do that anyway right now. Again, having resources is not a bad thing. You'll still have to grind Mastery in order to unlock weapons.

Good to know you're at least dropping the "My opinions are facts" rubbish at least. However, your opinion is a poor one since you base it off fear-mongering and the assumption that Warframe will collapse as soon as survival missions get some sort of decent reward.

I'm getting so sick and tired of repeating Scaling caps to you over and over and over and over.

No it would not force anyone to do anything, as it is not endless. Do you see people being forced to stay in Fissure missions? No. Your "it will happen" assurance is made completely false just by simply looking at how people play Void Fissures.

 

sure scaling cap but what is the cap? is 300 enough ? or some number like 500-1k each tower ? like i said 300 scaling cap is ok with me as long as doesnt surpass flood, and the reason for that is if it surpass flood then what flood for when u can do survive with high enemies lv and the same or higher amount of kuva u can get? and sure u gonna reply with "burst kuva" sure

WF will not colaspe, but what do u think when a game that keep growing toxic for long time? any game will not even WF can avoid that. i wish i have a time machine so i can laugh when this whole thing fall down when kuva endless scaling create the biggest problem for WF when it implement. And here is some thought of DE staff on the Riven rolls/Riven nor Endure run exhausted and more.

 

[fluffysnowcap]

6 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

THIS IS NOT IN THE GAME AT THE MOMENT

It solve problem not add to game yet

When problem in game it can be add to solve

 

6 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

when did i try balance the game around booster? 

by say not word booster use

[fluffysnowcap]

4 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

sure scaling cap but what is the cap?

Tower add tower from tower cap

Two tower cap

 

The cap for void fissure scaling is x2.00, achieved after 100 minutes of suvival.

 

Many I should refrain from using the vocabulary of a A0 english speake, but I do just want you to undstand me.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

20 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

kuva scale more when u stay in a mission longer? yes?

It. Is. Capped.

20 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Not just the Riven economy, more kuva = more rolls (can be good nor bad) and u know everyone gonna go for the meta stats aka damage mutli crit crit damage and then wat? riven just become a slot to bump up damage rather than interesting mechanic

Rivens....an interesting mechanic.......

20 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

let be honest if this happen and people can just pull the slot all day then they will do that rather than play WF

I seriously can't believe how ignorant you are. Do you seriously think that people are just going to "pull the slot all day" and not play the game? 

20 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

THIS IS NOT IN THE GAME AT THE MOMENT

So. What.

You literally undermined your own point by bringing up an apparent "problem" and the solution to it in the same goddamn sentence. So the problem has been fixed before it even entered the game 

20 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

U said that i denied people ideas and then u can denied my idea without point out where i was wrong nor may be a sollution to fix this? wow thanks genius

It's like talking to a chimp.....

20 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

if the void key system is ok then why DE change it and people like it?

Because DE thought it was getting boring. Not broken. Boring. 

Huge difference.

Now instead of trying to answer my question with a question, I'll ask again; what outrage?

20 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

When a person have only one key and want that part and try and try in 1 mission for a very long time, do u think it fun? not for me

So you don't like RNG? You're in the wrong game my friend.

12 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

like i said 300 scaling cap is ok

So stop acting like everyone is asking for endless Kuva.

12 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

and sure u gonna reply with "burst kuva" sure

Yes and that's a perfectly valid answer smartass. If someone just wants a whole lot of Kuva in one mission and not have to survive for a while, they can go Flood. 

12 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

WF will not colaspe

Exactly. So stop with that nonsense.

12 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

but what do u think when a game that keep growing toxic for long time?

I'm sorry, you have completely lost me. I can't tell if it's your atrocious English, or the plain fact that your logic is just non-existent.

12 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

i wish i have a time machine so i can laugh when this whole thing fall down when kuva endless scaling create the biggest problem for WF when it implement.

Again how will it be a problem if it's implemented correctly? 

Edited April 4, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[fluffysnowcap]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Again how will it be a problem if it's implemented correctly? 

Very worst case the very worst case scenario that could happen is we get another focus 2.0 to 2.5. DE makes a fool out of there self gets it all wrong and then go about creating some hefty changes and proactively tackling the balance.

[zWhiteKz]

25 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

Tower add tower from tower cap

Two tower cap

 

The cap for void fissure scaling is x2.00, achieved after 100 minutes of suvival.

 

Many I should refrain from using the vocabulary of a A0 english speake, but I do just want you to undstand me.

So if what u saying here is every 25 mins the kuva increasing by 25% , after 100 mins it reach 100% with the base of 200? If this is what u saying then yes this is not a bad idea but the base reward will have to be around 150-175, with the 400 each tower is a lot, also there is a fact that after 100 mins scaling with the current system with go out of hand forcing players to extract. But u have to take in account that some players will go to the extreme with the reward of 400 each tower, i can see that this will be very appealing to an endure runner that also want kuva at the same time, i dont know if DE gonna go with this because right now, i think, for them "end-game" is sortie lv not pass 200 and again this is balance only upper top of the player base, not many can fight a lv 200 enemies let alone a horde of lv 200 enemies. When a leave system introduce then i will love this idea but right now i dont think it gonna suit endless kuva as it is with no leave system.

Yes english is not my native language but i try my best to make my sentence somewhat understandable so please drop the isulting stuff that just rude (this is not point at u fluffy, thanks for understand english is not my native language unlike others)

Edited April 4, 2018 by zWhiteKz

[fluffysnowcap]

14 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

... with the 400 each tower is a lot, also there is a fact that after 100 mins scaling with the current system with go out of hand forcing players to extract. ...

That's kinda the point, keep the scaling rewarding but capped. With the difficulty being a natural filter to prevent abuses.