Saryn needs to be buffed

[Cibyllae]

36 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

The transfer range is also randomly much smaller than it should be as well.

I'm assuming that you already know that the range is halved when spores are popped because it's host died and not because they were popped.

For all of your other grievances, except this one,

39 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Never mind the poor design of it's current mechanics

you should make a bug report in    https://forums.warframe.com/forum/11-general/

As for the aforementioned quote we can actually have a discussion about that and I implore you, because I would like to hear, to expand on why you think Saryn's current mechanics are a poor design.

[NezuHimeSama]

When you kill an enemy, it doesn't transfer toxin anyway, so obviously I'm talking about manually popping spores, which randomly has less range than even killing the enemy should.

Again, spore is bugged AF. I already made a topic on some of the bugs a while back.

 

As for the poor design, you can't transfer a toxin proc unless it already exists at the time of popping spore, and only if the enemy isn't killed when the spore is popped, meaning that you need to be able to hit the enemy twice before spore can take effect. This also means that, outside of extremely late game, one of the main mechanics of spore doesn't actually function. On top of that, the mechanics of transferring spores are shaky at best(possibly a bug?) and it strongly favors high damage single hit weapons, which most toxin oriented weapons are not.

It should transfer toxin even in the case that toxin is procced on the shot that pops the spore, and the enemy dies in that same shot. It should also consolidate all toxin procs not spread by spore on the enemy where the proc is popped, to make it more in line with effective DPS rather than single hit damage.

The mechanics of spore popping also need to be fixed, seeing as they don't pop for projectile weapons a lot of the time, for no reason other than lolwarframe lolprojectiles. If they can't fix hit detection on projectile weapons for popping spores, they should make the spores less independent from the target, placing them in consistent locations with consistent hitboxes that can be consistently hit. For example, a spore sticking out of the enemy's head.

On top of that, the mechanics of proccing viral on anything prevent viral from getting the mechanical rework it deserves, and devalue viral it's self. It should probably increase damage to affected enemies by 25%(50% on hitting a spore)*power str or something like that, with an increase to proc chance along the lines of +5%(10% on hitting the spore)*power str, added similarly to Harrow's crit bonus, and also transfer viral and corrosive procs, which would solidify it as a way of spreading procs rather than boosting damage off the first toxin proc on the enemy.

As it stands right now, spore requires far too much setup for some of it's mechanics, which doesn't lend it's self to warframe's fast pace at all, and given the inconsistency of hitting a spore with anything but a beam or gas proc, it makes these mechanics rather useless in the vast majority of the game.

[Andaius]

8 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

When you kill an enemy, it doesn't transfer toxin anyway, so obviously I'm talking about manually popping spores, which randomly has less range than even killing the enemy should.

Again, spore is bugged AF. I already made a topic on some of the bugs a while back.

 

As for the poor design, you can't transfer a toxin proc unless it already exists at the time of popping spore, and only if the enemy isn't killed when the spore is popped, meaning that you need to be able to hit the enemy twice before spore can take effect. This also means that, outside of extremely late game, one of the main mechanics of spore doesn't actually function. On top of that, the mechanics of transferring spores are shaky at best(possibly a bug?) and it strongly favors high damage single hit weapons, which most toxin oriented weapons are not.

It should transfer toxin even in the case that toxin is procced on the shot that pops the spore, and the enemy dies in that same shot. It should also consolidate all toxin procs not spread by spore on the enemy where the proc is popped, to make it more in line with effective DPS rather than single hit damage.

The mechanics of spore popping also need to be fixed, seeing as they don't pop for projectile weapons a lot of the time, for no reason other than lolwarframe lolprojectiles. If they can't fix hit detection on projectile weapons for popping spores, they should make the spores less independent from the target, placing them in consistent locations with consistent hitboxes that can be consistently hit. For example, a spore sticking out of the enemy's head.

On top of that, the mechanics of proccing viral on anything prevent viral from getting the mechanical rework it deserves, and devalue viral it's self. It should probably increase damage to affected enemies by 25%(50% on hitting a spore)*power str or something like that, with an increase to proc chance along the lines of +5%(10% on hitting the spore)*power str, added similarly to Harrow's crit bonus, and also transfer viral and corrosive procs, which would solidify it as a way of spreading procs rather than boosting damage off the first toxin proc on the enemy.

As it stands right now, spore requires far too much setup for some of it's mechanics, which doesn't lend it's self to warframe's fast pace at all, and given the inconsistency of hitting a spore with anything but a beam or gas proc, it makes these mechanics rather useless in the vast majority of the game.

Yeah like you mentioned unless your talking very late game the way it tracks the order of damage makes it so If you kill the enemy wit ha weapon that would have procced a toxin on it and popped a spore won't get any damage carried over because the enemy died before the check for the spore toxin is looked at. So you end up needing weapons that have high proc chance and very little toxin damage to propagate the toxin on low-mid range enemies.  Thats why I tend to like Hiku prime for this with covert explosives with gas. only like 600 or so IIRC gas damage with about 70% or so status. Find a heavy hit him with some hiku spore him and hit him again with hiku.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Andaius

[NezuHimeSama]

I've been using Acrid with +120% flight speed or something like that. It procs enough, but the strength of the procs doesn't seem to be enough to make it scale late game.

Another good option is Scourge with Toxin and Blast or Radiation. Corrosive, Blast/Rad, and Toxin procs, and it pops spores as well. But, again, the damage of the toxin is too low.

On the other hand, Ogris with Toxin doesn't proc often enough, and Saryn has no good way to avoid suicide. I guess I could drop Firestorm and hope I can keep distance, but the possibility of the rocket being shot by smaller units exists, as does the ever present threat of S#&$ty players that like to crowd whoever is getting the kills.

[blacklusterseph]

With regards to the inconsistency, it almost feels like there are some de-sync/framerate shenanigans going on. This is something that crops up all over the place though which makes me wonder if Warframe has reached the limits of its engine.

[qscgg]

SARYN IS NOT WEAK

...you don't know how strong she is? She can one shot bunch of enemy over lv. 100 with her ability combo and a descent toxic  gas weapon. Just google it plz.

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by qscgg

[(XBOX)MintyFreshMike]

14 minutes ago, qscgg said:

SARYN IS NOT WEAK

...you don't know how strong she is? She can one shot bunch of enemy over lv. 100 with her ability combo and a descent toxic weapon. Just google it plz.

I've tried and it didn't work for me. I may not have the right weapons or the right build. Idk. I'm not saying I disagree with you. It just ain't working for me and I don't even care at this point. If she works for you, good. Have fun

[qscgg]

12 hours ago, (XB1)MintyFreshMike said:

I've tried and it didn't work for me. I may not have the right weapons or the right build. Idk. I'm not saying I disagree with you. It just ain't working for me and I don't even care at this point. If she works for you, good. Have fun

Try Lanka and build only gas(toxin and fire)  damage on it, and you need high status chance to proc those gas. when fighting with enemy, use your ability 1st first, and shoot them with Lanka but DO NOT shoot the spores, you want proc gas damage and let the gas damage break the spores to spread the damage.

But I like to play my Saryn with melee, cause she is the only warframe can easily proc 2( actually 3, but her 4th ability take too long to cast so I ignore it)

status in this game, also her passive is very useful. and that make her super strong with condition overload. 

below is my melee Saryn testing with lv.120 Nox

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by qscgg
Miasma can't proc status ...

[RealPandemonium]

4 hours ago, qscgg said:

But I like to play my Saryn with melee, cause she is the only warframe can easily proc 2( actually 3, but her 4th ability take too long to cast so I ignore it) status in this game

Miasma does not proc on living targets.  The proc is cosmetic only and is applied on death.

[Enjutsu7]

Try mutalist cernos, it can reach 100% status chance with 2 status mods, which leaves it with  2 free damage mods choices, i use high caliber and a faction mod, i heard that faction mods scale pretty weirdly with the GAS procs so it can ramp up alot of damage. It does get a bit annoying to change faction mods between missions.

Mutalist leaves gas procs where it shoots so i often don't even aim at enemy but at the ground and because it stays a while i tend to use it at choke points, it's also an easy way to use it to proc spores on mold as a mini zenistar.

I've tried a good amount of weapons on her and mutalist so far felt like the best weapon  for her.

[RealPandemonium]

18 minutes ago, Enjutsu7 said:

Try mutalist cernos, it can reach 100% status chance with 2 status mods, which leaves it with  2 free damage mods choices, i use high caliber and a faction mod, i heard that faction mods scale pretty weirdly with the GAS procs so it can ramp up alot of damage. It does get a bit annoying to change faction mods between missions.

Mutalist leaves gas procs where it shoots so i often don't even aim at enemy but at the ground and because it stays a while i tend to use it at choke points, it's also an easy way to use it to proc spores on mold as a mini zenistar.

I've tried a good amount of weapons on her and mutalist so far felt like the best weapon  for her.

Mutalist Cernos is good for popping lots of spores at high rates, but it's not much good for transferring big Toxin procs.  The little autoprocs will spread, making your big Gas procs from the main projectile not spread.  

Edited April 11, 2018 by RealPandemonium

[Enjutsu7]

17 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Mutalist Cernos is good for popping lots of spores at high rates, but it's not much good for transferring big Toxin procs.

I find mutalist cernos more versatile in most missions(for reasons i gave). The damage mutalist provides is pretty high too, it's cloud creates alot of gas procs.

The suggested lanka build pequed my interest.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Enjutsu7

[(XBOX)Android2715]

On 2018-04-06 at 6:49 AM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You mean the topic of her medicore stats despise her melee focus? The topic of how her damaging abilities only provide status rather then damage, of her missing Cc, scaling defense... The topic that she's below average in quite literally any category? I do.

I'm just calling out people that argue with stuff that isn't related to any of that. What has been the trend here from the start untill now.

How can you argue that she cannot do damage when there are posts in here showing 120 heavy gunners dying in 4 ticks of toxin proc damage from a single shot? How can you argue that she “isn’t survivable” when she has one of the highest health and armor pools in the game, has an abilities that draws agro AND heals, and has a four that provides a stun to allow you to escape? Do you just hold down W and melee spam? I’m genuinly curios. Stop the ranting, stop the misinformation. There is evidence to prove she has a high dps potential. How are you playing her, what abilities are you using and in what ways, and how do you wish for her playstyle to differ?

stop the semantics

[BeastKing9]

On 2018-04-02 at 11:08 PM, (XB1)MintyFreshMike said:

Saryn is a great frame. Her spores can wipe out a map full of enemies and her miasma is great too. Even her molt is good with the augment

The Problem

She's weak. At high levels she's absolutely useless. I'm not saying to make her op but make her more useful. I think the devs should probably do a rework on her abilities but definitely keep the spores

 

saryn is far from weak. since you have a lack of reasoning to your post, im not gonna give you one either. im sure many have already said as i have not read any comments yet.

[(XBOX)MintyFreshMike]

1 hour ago, BeastKing9 said:

saryn is far from weak. since you have a lack of reasoning to your post, im not gonna give you one either. im sure many have already said as i have not read any comments yet.

I just want you to know that I posted this over a month ago

[Ver_se]

The problem with her is survivability, She have great damage, just need her base armor doubled at least. She's a melee frame after all.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Ver_se

[blacklusterseph]

You do have to get pretty creative with defensive layers since even a max rank steel fiber Saryn doesn't last long against a Mot mob. The taunt on Molt sometimes has a fatal delay, that is something that can maybe be looked at. The other issues I have had keeping her alive have more to do with lapses in the other defensive mechanics in the game, not related to any potential issues with Saryn herself. Djinn taunt which should be strong on her is also slow to proc (and it dies after 30 minutes even with prime regen). The Coolant Leak sentinel mod should also be strong to run with melee Saryn but the percent slow and range are a bit too low. I use Artax on the sentinel which helps a bit. Channeled block is almost mandatory when running at shotgunners, but the bit of desync that can happen with blocking in general kind of lets Saryn down a bit (I think she would have no issues if the block mechanic had a slightly wider angle and was maybe a bit more forgiving with lag).

Stuff I still want to try are arcane guardian and life strike/healing return, but combined with the sentinel and modding for parrying I expect Saryn to feel a lot tougher to kill than she does right now. tl:dr, she does need a lot of the game's defensive mechanics to melee deep into Mot. I don't think she has a damage problem (as the linked videos prove).

[TKDancer]

2 hours ago, Ver_se said:

The problem with her is survivability, She have great damage, just need her base armor doubled at least. She's a melee frame after all.

no her problem is spores being incredibly finnicky and unreliable unless one is using a very specific set up, and even then, still very finnicky

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Am 2.5.2018 um 10:00 schrieb (XB1)Android2715:

How can you argue that she cannot do damage when there are posts in here showing 120 heavy gunners dying in 4 ticks of toxin proc damage from a single shot?

Let me ask you, is this her doing? Would it make much of a difference whether or not the weapon that does this damage is used by her?

She adds viral proccs but then again, that's all she really does. And while they are nice, theyr definitly not unique to her.... i use Viral on all of my slash based melee weapons because of theyr synergy.

...Been playing Zephyr with a Viral focused Zenistar recently too...her tornados place IPS and Viral once they come into contact with enemys, this profits CO. Every tornado in hitrange multiplys my damage and that way, i get multiple slash proccs for similar values, affecting a similar number of enemys with single strikes. THAT is her doing, not only the weapons.

Am 2.5.2018 um 10:00 schrieb (XB1)Android2715:

 How can you argue that she “isn’t survivable” when she has one of the highest health and armor pools in the game, has an abilities that draws agro AND heals, and has a four that provides a stun to allow you to escape?

To what do we compare it here? A glass cannon like Zephyr, that becomes literally immune to bullets? Nekros, Gara and Trinity that have insane reductions?

Tanky frames like Atlas (450 armor, damage immunity on his 1)? Valkyr (700 armor, armor buff, gets up to 4000something armor on better builds)

Or are we talking about frames with medicore stats like Oberon (they're literally the same) who has additional armor support, light and hard Cc, status protection and permanently channels a heal for similar numbers? Higher numbers even given the difference in builds.. i don't call it medicore for no reason. She shares her survivability with a jack of all trades frame on a worse surrounding kit. That molt starts with 400 shields, 500 health, has no kinda scaling and deletes all your spores in range doesn't exactly add to this. Nor does light Cc on her most expensive ability.

Am 2.5.2018 um 10:00 schrieb (XB1)Android2715:

And how do you wish for her playstyle to differ?

 

I'd love for her Molt to pacify enemys similar to Titanias Lantern

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Lantern

Not essencially for the full duration but duration based none the less. Instead of instantly killing it, they would hoard around it, be dealt damage by it (Toxic dots with 100% status chance would be nice) and only start killing it once it has actually done something. She's a toxic plant themed frame... i'm suprised she didn't get such a feature from the beginning.

It wouldn't hurt Miasama to do a little more then just damage eather... for it to set corrosion proccs is a pretty popular suggestion but why stop there? Why not let it live up to its name? Let it do a random number of different status types..anything from IPS to Blinds. In other games it isn't just damage...it's a toxic mist that equals a creeping death to entire planets.

And most of all, i would love for her spores to actually do what theyr supposed to the way it is described in the wiki. Me, i would even rebalance them so they do less viral damage for more toxic damage. So they can't be used to cheese content with zero effort and on the contrary actually reward effort.

Not that it matters much since we're all set on keeping her in this subideal state to keep the low level aoe intact appearently.

Edited May 4, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[catastrophy]

I just wish she wasn't as susceptible to toxin procs. On herself, that is.

Edited May 3, 2018 by catastrophy