Rank 1 in Cetus missions, like Plague Star : new player feedback and suggestions

[Baraz-Siriel]

I can guess that my new player feedback here is most probably not a first, but I think sharing it can help the devs make a few tiny improvements ...

After finishing the tutorial quest-line (Vor : which was fun) and Saya's Vigil quest on Cetus ("glass shards/iron rose" quest), the next few I tried were a super confusing chaotic mess for me. 

Before I explain, I beg other players here to not react harshly like some do and just give me tips if you wish (fanboi, know I like the game, I think it is of high quality, and I will not quit, I will persist, etc.).  Beyond welcome tips, I am posting here as feedback for the devs.  Here goes ...

• I just turned rank 1.  Lotus keeps nagging me about the infestation around Cetus aka Plague Star. 
• Konju gives me Saya's Vigil quest : all good up to now, as it is pretty much solo.  Done, had fun. 
• I meet, in theory, the rank requirement for a few other missions from Konzu ... 
• I will only use the Plague Star as an example, but it was the same experience in many other attempts yesterday on Earth :
  • My glorious noob rank 1 is set with two or more ranks 30 who fly 700 m to the waypoint in little time.  I am Volt dashing, leaping, rolling my way tying to cover the terrain to reach them... (suggestion: maybe archwings should be a requirement and quest beforehand? Could also be more filters/options for matchmaking.).  I make it, late but not ended yet (!), I still get about 35 kills "Volting" and bashing.  Some critter one-shotted me after mission was completed, not sure what and where: may have been some green gas (?).  A cool rank 30 rezes me.  They fly away 400 m in little time.  They are waiting for me about 2 minutes I think, while I desperately sprint-leap and Volt dash...  I never make it on time.  In theory it was not a failure.  One of the players says, politely in chat, that I am too low level.  I can't disagree, but Lotus was pretty insistent and Konzu kinda considered my noobness apt. 

This happens also with the other starter missions given by Konzu (after Saya of course) or other public missions for that matter where higher ranks speedrun missions and leave me in the dust.  Nothing new I am sure, and many will probably say I need a clan/friends (IKR) or grind and play it solo.  That said...

• Maybe the public matchmaker should be tweaked ? (see colored line above)
• Is rank 1 really appropriate for Plague Star, I guess so to a certain extent, but not if others fly 400 m ahead of you.  Maybe the archwing should be a requirement and possible other small power requirements.
• When missions say Level 5-15, for example, it does not mean rank, so this is confusing for a new player or me anyhow.  I presumed my Volt level 11 was within that bracket.  My suggestion here is maybe that level indication should be clearer or more explicit (edit: many have noted on the Internet that the level indication is a measure of enemy difficulty. I still suggest this could be made more explicit).  Some (few) of those mobs one-shot kill a rank 1.  I know the devs are not idiots and there are good reasons why this remains confusing for new players at the moment (i.e. it is not a simple system, as there are many factors like rank, warframe level, mods, etc.). 
• To contradict myself in appearance, I am not a fan of scaled regions : I like high risks and dangerous environments but, during such missions, sneaking or hiding does not work.  Mobs spawn near-by and rush towards you, no matter if you are crouched, hiding and out of sight (LOS).  I suggest a way of making this ranking discrepancy more fun is to make it possible for new Tenno to sneak/hide normally, like they can in some missions or when roaming without a mission. 

All in all, it was super chaotic and I was mentally exhausted after those first attempts, some of which I even failed (embarrassing). 

I will find a way and persist, since the game is pretty awesome on many levels,  Thanks. 

( edit : I colorized the suggestions as such. For my taste, the last colored issue is the most important or immersion breaking.)

Edited April 17, 2018 by Baraz-Siriel

[InDueTime-EN-]

5 minutes ago, Baraz-Siriel said:

Is rank 1 really appropriate for Plague Star,

Most events are open to any rank so that every one can participate, It's always been like this since the beginning. Yes it can be difficult, but i would rather that I have the choice to do it than not at all. I'm sure that the Plague Star can be done by rank 1 players if they don't use any of the potion thingies. Since you had other players with you, they probably used those potions which made it significantly harder for you. 

[FreeWilliam]

20 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

Most events are open to any rank so that every one can participate, It's always been like this since the beginning

I love this.  I'll happily carry some MR1s, but I do wish that the poor guys weren't stuck chasing everyone else all the time.  

I experienced the same thing at lower MRs and it took a while to get the hang of bullet jumping, appreciate using those mods, and generally feel like I wasn't going to randomly feel like a liability vs three players who somehow were halfway to the end while I was parkour failing all over those ice caves.

33 minutes ago, Baraz-Siriel said:

All in all, it was super chaotic and I was mentally exhausted after those first attempts, some of which I even failed (embarrassing). 

If you're with a group and we filled up the dispenser then you were basically stuck on 'extra bonus hard' mode there.  Sounds like you've got an excellent attitude and the right spirit.  I thought the Hemocyte was a bit much and I have builds that specifically revolve around punching Juggernauts in the face for fun (Hamsterball Nyx is Bane vs Juggies), so it was definitely not just you, Tenno!

[Siilk]

Firstly, good that you're enjoying the game. It has its flaws but it has it's moments of absolute awesomeness as well.

Now to your troubles. Yes, it's a bit confusing for a new player to have all the quests  on cetus being available right away. Normally, you will see a recommended gear rank noted in the mission description but as far as I remember it is not the case for plague star. and the fact that it is recommended for all players without any explanation at all is also a bit confusing. It's hard to tell if matchmaking should pair up high-MR players with low-MR ones but you definitely not getting enough information in-game to know what to do and to make an informed decision about what kind of players you want to be grouped with.

You see, the difficulty of plague star is controlled by player actions. The "base" difficulty is quite low, perfectly ok for new players. But when phylaxis vials and infested catalysts are added to the mixer, mission difficulty will ramp up, making it a death sentence for underlevelled newbies or even improperly equipped seasoned players.

So as with everything in warframe, I recommend reading the wiki to get to know the details. Be wary of potential spoilers though, this comes withoug saying. Plague star page will give you some more information about what to do and what to expect. After that, I would recommend a solo run just to go through everything at your own pace and become accustomed with the mission. If playing pub, be prepared to face high-level enemies. Focus on crowd control to help during defence and clear out regular infested during the boss phase.

One more thing, if you don't have an archwing while playing pub and other team members all have 'wings, you might be better off skipping 1st and 3rd objective markers and go straight to 2nd and 4th. 1st and 3rd objs do not require a full team and the locations of 2nd and 4th are usually easy to figure out. The Cave-mixer pair usually stays the same for several missions so you can figure out where to go. And the boil is always in the same location so you can head there right away after defence is completed. Just be sure to let your team know what you're doing and that they're ok with that.

And of course, you can try to recruit other low-MR players to do invite-only low-level runs with no archwing. Or do what I do all the time and just solo it to have the full control over difficulty and pace. ;)

 

Edit: With all that said, I think that in the future plague star events, bounty should be split into two: low-level one with no catalyst usage(and maybe even limited phylaxis usage, say no more than 2) and a regular one which will work just like the current one does. Konzu may even give recommendations to players to take one or the other, based on their current loadout. That way low-MR players and people who just want some casual action can be match-maked separately, from hardcore hemocyte slayers providing both groups with smoother experience.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Siilk

[Ketec]

You play volt but can't keep up?
Volt is the fastest land animals there is.

Also there are some of those grineer flying vehicles around the map now - can take advantage of those.
2 usually near the lake on the left of the cetus entrance.

Sometimes you could ask for a extra aw for yourself - the consumables are cheap enough now that they can be spammed for others, especially when it's a 20+mr player.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Ketec

[Baraz-Siriel]

16 hours ago, Ketec said:

...

Also there are some of those grineer flying vehicles around the map now - can take advantage of those.
2 usually near the lake on the left of the cetus entrance.
...

Hmm, I'll check that out for fun, thanks. 

[fr4gb4ll]

On 16.4.2018 at 10:30 PM, Baraz-Siriel said:

ranks 30

there are no such ranks atm, fyi... max. rank is 25 for now.

On 16.4.2018 at 10:30 PM, Baraz-Siriel said:

Maybe the public matchmaker should be tweaked ?

yep, totally agree here ^^)

On 16.4.2018 at 10:30 PM, Baraz-Siriel said:

Is rank 1 really appropriate for Plague Star, I guess so to a certain extent, but not if others fly 400 m ahead of you.  Maybe the archwing should be a requirement and possible other small power requirements.

indeed. i've seen so many player with such a low rank who couldn't stay alive for ten seconds in a setup of 4 hemocyte (which they might not even wanted to do, but one of the high ranked players just put in all 4 goodies in the mixing process). one way could have been making 4 difficult instances with a MR-cap for participation to prevent this instead of this silly extra step of building those two extras (hell, i would even agree that doing it this way, the resources that otherwise would be needed to build the stuff would just be subtracted when starting the mission).

On 16.4.2018 at 10:30 PM, Baraz-Siriel said:

When missions say Level 5-15, for example, it does not mean rank, so this is confusing for a new player or me anyhow.  I presumed my Volt level 11 was within that bracket.  My suggestion here is maybe that level indication should be clearer or more explicit (edit: many have noted on the Internet that the level indication is a measure of enemy difficulty. I still suggest this could be made more explicit).  Some (few) of those mobs one-shot kill a rank 1.  I know the devs are not idiots and there are good reasons why this remains confusing for new players at the moment (i.e. it is not a simple system, as there are many factors like rank, warframe level, mods, etc.). 

same as above - making 4 different instances out of it (and with the propper info about what a player can expect on enemy level - especially the boss level after the 4th spawn).

On 16.4.2018 at 10:30 PM, Baraz-Siriel said:

To contradict myself in appearance, I am not a fan of scaled regions : I like high risks and dangerous environments but, during such missions, sneaking or hiding does not work.  Mobs spawn near-by and rush towards you, no matter if you are crouched, hiding and out of sight (LOS).  I suggest a way of making this ranking discrepancy more fun is to make it possible for new Tenno to sneak/hide normally, like they can in some missions or when roaming without a mission. 

well, i guess that is to everyones own liking - me, i would see a much higher scaling, but understand that for such the map is still to small. in the plains, i don't feel this is a problem at all - but if you only meant the "scaling" of the boss of the event, then you're correct. and again, 4 different instances would have solved this at least to some degree.

[Baraz-Siriel]

8 hours ago, fr4gb4ll said:

there are no such ranks atm, fyi... max. rank is 25 for now.

[...].

well, i guess that is to everyones own liking - me, i would see a much higher scaling, but understand that for such the map is still to small. in the plains, i don't feel this is a problem at all - but if you only meant the "scaling" of the boss of the event, then you're correct. and again, 4 different instances would have solved this at least to some degree.

For the last point, the issue is that when I am considered in a mission, hiding or being out of line-of-sight is not possible.  Mobs spawn near-by and bum rush you directly, no matter what you do or where you are.  It makes it even more difficult for a player who ends-up in a mission that scaled upwards.  I suggest it is better to allow the sneaking playstyle, which is not an issue as it is not really rewarding on the plains, and it is more immersive that mobs have to spot you and search a bit. 

For ranks, the Wiki (both about ranks and Warframes) says it goes up to 30.  I am a complete noob, so maybe that is in theory, is capped to Rank 25 at the moment, in which case what I saw was Warframes level 30 (not Rank 30).  My Volt level 22, with improved mods, is a lot more powerful than I was two days ago :P (+300 HP, +400  shields).

Edited April 20, 2018 by Baraz-Siriel

[fr4gb4ll]

23 minutes ago, Baraz-Siriel said:

For ranks, the Wiki (both about ranks and Warframes) says it goes up to 30.  I am a complete noob, so maybe that is in theory, is capped to Rank 25 at the moment, in which case what I saw was Warframes level 30 (not Rank 30).  My Volt level 22, with improved mods, is a lot more powerful than I was two days ago :P (+300 HP, +400  shields).

yes, it WILL be rank 30 in the future - it's not capped, but there are not enough frame, weapons & stuff that will give more mastery points atm, that is all. the mastery rank doesn't really do anyting to your fighting power anyway, it only makes some things easier and generally shows that you have at least "mastered" a certain amount of equipment (even though most people only power-level through most of the things and therefore even a high rank player can be experient as a rather new one - only no one will care for the excuse of being "new" to the game after doing some silly S#&$, when a player with a high rank is saying it ^^)

as for the plain and the scaling there, i think DE made a mistake when they opened it for totally new players - it was more or less a "political" decision of them and both, new player and veterans are annoyed of some things thanks to that. let's hope the next "open" area will not be the same and more for mid- and high-level player only.

[Baraz-Siriel]

On 4/19/2018 at 11:34 PM, fr4gb4ll said:

...as for the plain and the scaling there, i think DE made a mistake when they opened it for totally new players - it was more or less a "political" decision of them and both, new player and veterans are annoyed of some things thanks to that. let's hope the next "open" area will not be the same and more for mid- and high-level player only.

Personally, I really like roaming in an open-space with high-risk, but the issue is being in the same squad, for the same mission, with wildly different power levels.  During an active mission, it scales suddenly and the mobs see you and bum rush you :P.  In between missions, you can roam freely without much issues.  It would require a bit of tweaking.  Otherwise said, I am not a fan of a big region being for narrow power levels: they can keep it open, but remove what can handicap lower leveled Warframes.

I might try it in solo mode see how it goes. 

cheers

Edited April 23, 2018 by Baraz-Siriel

[fr4gb4ll]

5 hours ago, Baraz-Siriel said:

Personally, I really like roaming in an open-space with high-risk, but the issue is being in the same squad, for the same mission, with wildly different power levels.  During an active mission, it scales suddenly and the mobs see you and bum rush you :P.  In between missions, you can roam freely without much issues.  It would require a bit of tweaking.  Otherwise said, I am not a fan of a big region being for narrow power levels: they can keep it open, but remove what can handicap lower leveled Warframes.

I might try it in solo mode see how it goes. 

cheers

i said a long time ago (well, in some feedback after the release of PoE) that if DE would enhance their matchmaking into something more modern and more configurable, they could even manage to to something like putting player with similar mastery into a team and scale the difficultness of the plains this way instead of the way the bounties are now (and back then, i think the MR-requirement for even hard bounties wasn't in place or more "soft" than now). ofc, there should be also an option to allow an MR25 to team up with a MR5 - and really, i think letting player below that or lets rather say without them having done the 2nd. dream quest (or even the war within quest), was a mistake... but it was a "political" (or call PR) decision and can't be reversed now (well, it could, but that would, ofc, call in a ѕhitstorm for sure). anyway, with a better lobby-system many things in the game could me way more comfortable than they are now and that doesn't mean we wouldn't have pug's anymore, for this would still be the "deafult" way to play.