Slide Attack Meta balancing suggestion

[-Shavo-]

The actual Maiming Strike + Blood Rush Slide Meta is a core problem of the game. It makes every content far too easy - just watch some streams and all that you will see is the same, slide attack clearing rooms with whips. It is obvious why this meta exists and is so appealing. Why should i use my gun when i can clear the whole room with one or two slides. This playstyle is clearly too effective.

The core problems are:

a) Primed Reach

b) Blood Rush + Maiming Strike

c) Slide Attacks

My suggestion to fix this is:

a) Primed Reach: It should scale with the actual blade of the weapon (still a problem with weapons like the galatine, super long blade) - and not with the complete weapon length - or it needs to add a fixed range like +1.5m blade length. This would need some number changes for the mod to still have an use. Positive side effect: it would be usefull for every melee weapon category.

b) Just change the math behind them. Let Maiming Strike being applied AFTER Blood Rush and it will fix the crazy crits.

c) Slide Attack damage needs to be adjusted. For all melee weapons: the more aoe potential the slide attack has, the lower the damage should be. Weapons with low slide range can nuke a single tanky target while polearms clear easily a wider area of weak enemys.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Yamichi

[Aechmea]

18 minutes ago, Yamichi said:

just watch some streams and all that you will see is the same, slide attack clearing rooms with whips. It is obvious why this meta exists and is so appealing. Why should i use my gun when i can clear the whole room with one or two slides. This playstyle is clearly too effective.

"Warframe is a co-operative game; having powerful tools is a boon to a team rather than a disadvantage. However, there are a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo" - Rebecca when Telos boltace got nerfed 

 

>Rebecca today

hmm... k

Edited April 21, 2018 by Crimson-Tenno

[LuinCeltchar]

10 minutes ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

"Warframe is a co-operative game; having powerful tools is a boon to a team rather than a disadvantage. However, there are a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo" - Rebecca when Telos boltace got nerfed 

 

>Rebecca today

hmm... k

She got something other than relics... photoshopped.

[fluffysnowcap]

Also if memeing and atterax was so broke. Why did she only get to second place?

[-Shavo-]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb fluffysnowcap:

Also if memeing and atterax was so broke. Why did she only get to second place?

The other guy could have used it too.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Crimson-Tenno:

"Warframe is a co-operative game; having powerful tools is a boon to a team rather than a disadvantage. However, there are a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo" - Rebecca when Telos boltace got nerfed 

They adressed this due to feedback and the weapons they nerfed in that updated were not so efficient and broken as the current meta.

Best example was the stream of iFlynn today (not offending, i love watching his streams) and guess what they done fo Elite Onslaught: 3x Equinox Maim build + EV Trinity for energy, 4x CP and - thats the point - 4x melee Maiming Strike + Blood Rush. They easily played till Zone 22 with only sliding around before one of them crashed and they lost due to never ending host migration.

[fluffysnowcap]

Just now, Yamichi said:

The other guy could have used it too.

We don't know that, simple as.

Just now, Yamichi said:

They adressed this due to feedback and the weapons they nerfed in that updated were not so efficient and broken as the current meta.

DE have a habit of dealing nerfs so hard the item is never touched again, the Telos boltace went from OP to a joke weapon that no ones uses, when if they patched with care they would of toned down the slide attack effect so it is in line with all other slide attack weapons instead of being ahead of them.

6 minutes ago, Yamichi said:

Best example was the stream of iFlynn today (not offending, i love watching his streams) and guess what they done fo Elite Onslaught: 3x Equinox Maim build + EV Trinity for energy, 4x CP and - thats the point - 4x melee Maiming Strike + Blood Rush. They easily played till Zone 22 with only sliding around before one of them crashed and they lost due to never ending host migration.

If you remove and yes I say remove and mean it, Equinox, Memeing, blood rush, and EV train from the game there will be a new cheese meta before you can post on the form "Thanks DE the game is better than ever, thanks to the meta shizz being removed"

[-Shavo-]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb fluffysnowcap:

If you remove and yes I say remove and mean it, Equinox, Memeing, blood rush, and EV train from the game there will be a new cheese meta before you can post on the form "Thanks DE the game is better than ever, thanks to the meta shizz being removed"

The point is there is always a meta, that is logically. WoW, LoL, HotS, TESO all of them have a meta which consists of the best to go choices. But in most cases the meta in these games are mutable and not pick this or nothing like we have with the slide meta. The slide meta itself is way too strong to be untouched. If you pick it it nearly doesn't matter which warframe you pick, which level the enemy has - it overshadows everything. This is the point where a balance change is necessary and unavoidable. For some reason DE actualy accepts this state of the game that I - for my opinion - cant understand. I played all the aforementioned games and in every single game the developers balanced the stuff as soon as possible if something was way too strong - even if they overnerfed in the first moment, they brought the stuff later to a good balance.

 

[Gandergear]

Honestly the porblems with the boring af melee system. None of the melees feel good to use so using the builds that ACTUALLY kill things, memestrike an co, are the only two viable options. Everything else is slapping an enemy with a mackeral.

[fluffysnowcap]

5 minutes ago, Yamichi said:

The point is there is always a meta, that is logically. WoW, LoL, HotS, TESO all of them have a meta which consists of the best to go choices. But in most cases the meta in these games are mutable and not pick this or nothing like we have with the slide meta. The slide meta itself is way too strong to be untouched. If you pick it it nearly doesn't matter which warframe you pick, which level the enemy has - it overshadows everything. This is the point where a balance change is necessary and unavoidable. For some reason DE actualy accepts this state of the game that I - for my opinion - cant understand. I played all the aforementioned games and in every single game the developers balanced the stuff as soon as possible if something was way too strong - even if they overnerfed in the first moment, they brought the stuff later to a good balance.

 

Many DE using touching it yet is because they ignored it for long enough for it to have become a featured or many because they get the fact they the issue isn't memeing. What a twist. The issue is just like link trim with avaiter and radatio. Selth damage, working as intended but.... Its a combo of 5 system's all on top of each over to create a op mess that they carnt fix with out a comphensive rework to melee.

[Hoangviet1996]

It will be nerf or as the dev like to call it "Fix". Just look at how they address Telos Boltace, Synoid Simulor and Chroma 

[Doomsknightmare]

19 hours ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

"Warframe is a co-operative game; having powerful tools is a boon to a team rather than a disadvantage. However, there are a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo" - Rebecca when Telos boltace got nerfed 

 

>Rebecca today

hmm... k

LOL this made my day. #Spin2Win4TheLotus# 

[Yazeth]

I think DE could scale Slide Attacks based on a "Momentum" system. Your first slide attack deals normal damage, but trying to connect multiple slide attacks consecutively leads to diminishing damage output. To compensate, implement a system where your slide damage increases based on how fast you are going before executing your maximum slide attack. Not sure how this would turn out in actuality, but I thought it was a cool idea.

[Gizogin]

I'd be happy if Reach and Primed Reach would just add a flat amount of weapon range, instead of scaling with the weapon's base range, and if Maiming Strike scaled with base crit chance, instead of adding a flat amount. Or if melee weapons couldn't hit through walls. These changes would prevent whips from hitting entire rooms with every swing while also limiting the spin-2-win meta, which just leads to repetitive motion injuries.

[Mudfam]

On 4/23/2018 at 5:17 AM, Gizogin said:

Or if melee weapons couldn't hit through walls.

This. I came here to say this.

I think some other nerfs would also be in order, but this change would prevent some of the laziest playstyles and significantly reduce the room clearing speed and general cheese level of whips. It might discourage some people from just zipping through a level constantly sliding without paying any attention or leaving anything alive for other squad members to fight.

[KenthNisshoku]

give it the broken bull treatment

they spin 3 times they get dizzy or thrown off balance

[XenMaster]

Give us Maiming Strike slam attack version, HAMMER TIME BOI!