Disappointment In Warframe And Thoughts On Improving (Long Wall Of Text With Paragraphing)

[hydrater]

Warframe was genuinely a good game during U7. Now, I'm beginning to see effects of power creep and the entire fast paced action game turning into toilet games, where you play for the sake of killing time.
Warframe has made a very good first impression but lately, the contents implemented have upset me to great heights.
I'm going to present my opinions. I am actively directing this to DE but players may feel free to comment on it.

Weapons

 

First off, weapons. Weapons were generally good and introduction of forma was a great idea. Players get to grind to make their favorite weapon more effective. Then out of nowhere, BAM, your favorite weapon now has a PRIME version with direct stats upgrade, rendering your original weapon inferior.

 

Take for example: Paris

Paris is on the left, Paris Prime is on the right

As shown Paris is now useless other than for grinding mastery exp.

 

With the sudden introduction of the new PRIME weapons. Players who spend so much time grinding for formas, weapon exp and money spent on affinity boosters and forma feel cheated.

This generate negative reactions for players and some of them decided that they should quit along with other reasons which I will explain in a minute.
Moving on, weapons should be able to compete with each other. Each with different style. Let's talk secondary.
Spectra is an example of a good weapon. It offers a different style of gameplay due to the laser-type projectile. This give players a CHOICE to choose between how they want to play. This is an example of a good design.
Then on the other side, you have the bad designs, namely, guns that nobody uses. Example: Sicarus
This gun whose name is taboo, isn't worth mentioning in any debates on "guns to use." Why even bother using Sicarus other than grinding for exp when you have Vasto.

Sicarus is on the left, Vasto is on the right
As shown they have the same type of projectile and Vasto wins at everything except for accuracy and clip size which can be easily substituted due to the DPS and reload speed.
It's a no brainer that players will pick Vasto over Sicarus. This isn't CHOICE anymore. It's giving a man a bar of gold and a cardboard box and making him choose, of course, there will always be that one person somewhere on Earth who will choose the cardboard box for some reasons but let's leave him out of the issue.

Similarly, melee weapons have the same animation except different models and values. Most of the melees clearly beats the other ones. It's understandable that good designs required more work to be done in terms of programming, but releasing useless weapons that don't make a change is pointless. I am glad that the invasion of melee weapons has come to a stop. I really don't want to see another long melee weapon with glowing bits. If you must, I prefer buying them as skins such as manticore or brokk, or better yet, building them with blueprints which can be bought from the shop. This encourages customization without requiring players to re-grind because the latest melee is clearly better.

This isn't a MMO where you can set weapons of higher value than the others because all the weapons are accessible from start and don't require much grinding of mastery exp to acquire other than the rank 7 ones.
Speaking of rank 7 weapons, they don't suit the ninja theme. Damn ninjas with rocket launchers blowing enemies up silently. What. Well since this is "space" ninja, I am just gonna let it go but I digressed.

That's the weapon issue, too much useless weapons that nobody will be using unless they have terrible luck with RNG when acquiring PRIME weapons.

 

 

Mods

 

*Sigh*
I don't even know where to begin....
Every weapon/Warframe are given a limited amount of slots to place the mods. The effective ones are used to override the ineffective ones.

A good example would be for Warframes. (6 slots, EXCLUDING skills)
Let's say I want to raise the defensive attributes for my Warframe. Typically, players will choose redirection mod because shield takes most of the damage and they regenerate unlike health. Then, if I want more defensive attributes, I can add vitality and fast deflection. By now, I would be so defensive, that I should concentrate my remaining 3 slots on utility and offensive attributes but okay, let's say for some unknown reason, I am a horrible player who still continues to take too much damage and I can't hide for some weird reasons or maybe I managed to get myself in situations where I am surrounded more often than a Tenno can find nano spores, I can turn to steel fiber for armor and aura mod, rejuvenation.
Now I am so tanky it's nearly impossible to die. Then you have a list of defensive mods that nobody uses. What? You want a list?

-Warm Coat

-Shock Absorber
-Antitoxin

-Flame Repellent

-Diamond Skin

-Lighting Rod

-Insulation

 

So what's the meaning of their existence. Since when would a player be like: "hey, you know what is clearly worth a slot on my warframe? WARM COAT! I am sure I am unable to avoid map hazards by redoing the mission with abort or alt+f4. Maybe I should even consider elemental resistance! Yeaaaah! I totally need that 10% ice resistance against Lech Krill who never appears to hit me due to his extremely slow and obvious movements!"

 

Then we have the mods for guns..... I mean who uses Eagle Eye or Hawk Eye? Their existence makes me cry.

 

Honestly, these insignificant mods that hardly affects the gameplay shouldn't be taking a slot. An idea would be letting players equip 3 of these insignificant mods for free and using an item similar to forma that requires grinding or platinum to acquire to equip more.

Now, other than mods being ineffective, there's an issue with the new hybird mods where they are just a straight upgrade from other versions. For example, the all common nightmare drop, constitution have 40% knockdown recovery + a free 28% power duration whereas the rare godly Handspring that take people weeks to hunt only have 20% at max level.

 

Next, aura mods. Come on....
The new aura mods revealed in the new Ash profile makes me facepalm even harder...

FIRE RESISTANT AURA MODS YEAAAAAAAAAAH

Just when physique giving you an extra 50hp isn't bad enough or scavenger mods, you get the all godly elemental resistance auras!

 

/sarcasm

 

Missions

 

Hey DE, I know that players have been wanting "harder" missions. Nightmare mod isn't 'hard', in fact, it's a ridiculous marathon for that 1% drop. We're gonna go back to game design 101. A game is known as hard when a player have to try and try again without receiving punishment.

Nightmare mode punishes players by taking away revives for their Warframe, rendering the Warframe unplayable for the rest of the day. This encourages players to quit instead of trying again because it is very obvious to avoid punishment than to get punished for something you're not good at.
Examples of hard games are rage inducing games. The classic Super Mario allows the player to the spend the entire day with 3 lives for each try unlike Warframe which just silences the player from playing that Warframe if he dies.
Other examples are "Super Hexagon, The Impossible Game or Trial Evolution." The best example would be Dark Souls.

In these games, no punishments are made. If anybody reading this is going to argue about losing all your souls in Dark Souls, you're given a chance to obtain them back which is part of the difficulty, in fact you will be expecting the threat which makes it even easier.
Secondly, it isn't hard because players are allowed to choose their set up, making the challenge a walk in the park.
Example, taking a Trinity with Rage mod will counter vampire mode with ease.
Loki can just invisibility pass everybody with the amount of power duration mods.

Normally, energy and shield drain would be fine if the player doesn't get punished for making a mistake.

So nightmare mode isn't hard, it's just a painful marathon to run for that 1% drop rate on Blaze and Hammer Shot. It strongly discourages players from attempting nightmare mode. This isn't hard nor fun, NM mode is just forcing players to run a certain build while completing a series of simple and repetitive challenges. Honestly, who would take Warframes like Ember to NM just to have her strong points eliminated by energy drain and her weak points made worse, due to shield drain.

 

Moving on, missions other than defense and mobile defense are empty. Raids, sabotage and captures are boring. Why? Too much holding on the sprint button and less action which players crave for. New players often find themselves having to hold sprint for 1-2 mins straight and hurting their little fingers. The game requires more random events if you want to make repetitive tasks fun. Stalker is a random event, however it's so rare that it is pointless. Good examples would be randomly spawning a boss or having a group of Hyenas suddenly appearing, maybe even ships firing from outside windows and players have to seek shelter for the time being or risk moving with zero gravity if they want to rush the mission.

 

Nobody at end game goes like, "this is such a fine day, I should probably do a raid mission because I love to run through everything and receive nothing significant."

Ideally, some players do run it for Banshee parts but most players know that Defense missions are much more effective especially due to the invention of the defense reward calculator.

Why is Mobile Defense and Defense fun? The answer is easy, nobody has to break their little fingers holding the sprint button and there is more action. It's as simple as that.

 

Boss Fights

 

This, I have to agree is not easy due to the amount of programming required. However I must stress that the bosses are not 'hard', again, they're a ridiculously painful to play. Players spend more time waiting than actually doing something. Take Vor for example. herp derp SHIELD FOR ONE MIN, when you can take down all the 4 grineers in mere seconds. Then you have Krill which.... you know, I don't even have to explain how long you have to wait for that guy who tries too hard to hit you with his slow melee attacks....
Recently with the new duo on Phobos, the waiting time... Oh gawd........

I'm gonna give a few suggestions regarding boss designs. in a boss fight, players should have their adrenaline pumping throughout the entire fight. Be it shooting, or dodging attack, ANYTHING other than teabagging Vor on top of his shield.
For example, Vor can spawn 4 machines which can attack and move instead of soldiers. As long as these machines are up, Vor will be invulnerable. He will however, not stay in 1 spot but be able to attack as well. This allows the player to immerse in the boss fight, actively looking around to dodge the machines and Vor's attack at the same time. This will also kill the long a*s waiting time and players don't have to teabag him. Krill's attack should be much faster with a wider AoE. He should be able to charge at Tennos and knock the entire group down instead of firing that darn machine gun where players can just hide behind a wall and alt tab and check Facebook to see if their crush is online.

Jackal and Raptor are fun bosses that keep the fight intense throughout. (Provided Raptor doesn't get stuck in the mountains)

 

End Game

 

This needs to be addressed asap. After the recent affinity weekend, more players are closer to rank 11. What do rank 11 players do? Grind to grind.
Grinding itself is fine, in fact it can be fun as long as there is a certain objective. Players are equipped with very strong weapons that can few shot bosses, now what do they do with those deadly weapons? Nothing. No, don't tell me nightmare mode, as explained earlier, that's not hard nor fun.

Players need something hard where we don't have to be punished for it, something that allows us to try and try again, maybe with random events occurring. This makes it hard and fun. An idea would be mixing moving and shooting together where if the players fall into the chasm they have to start all over (something like the mastery test except, with enemies). This collaboration of new ideas can be made into a new planet that comes after Pluto. So players can look forward to the end game and not be like "meh I will play something else until DE adds new content." The rewards of course, have to be good, such as aesthetic skin. So instead of designing pointless new weapons, players can have more customization options.

 

Events

 

Now this by far has gotten beyond ridiculous. Before anybody accuse me for wanting mods and such. I'm gonna point that:
1. I HAVE THE REWARDS.

2. I AM ACTIVELY PLAYING AND WORKING HARD FOR THE REWARDS.

 

Kay, let's get started.

The events are NOT FUN, in fact, they're grindy boring marathons that eat up your day without doing anything productive. A game should be interactive, where players have to constantly make decisions which will affect their actions and not imitate a robot that does that same task over and over again.

Grinding around 10 rounds of the same thing is fine for us. Anything more and it becomes really tedious.

An event should promote something such as community bonding where players work together. This has been done for the Moa event which can however, been greatly improved. Lately, the events are:
-Grind Mobile Defense for eternity

-Compete with your teammates and shoot balloons, discouraging social bonding

-Grind Capture for eternity

These events are just beyond bad. if I have to rate this from 0-10, I will give it a -10/10.
Again, this events would be okay if there are random events. If there's a list of about 10 random events with 1 happening each round, everybody wouldn't mind doing this for 50 rounds. In fact if you increase the list of random occurrences, players wouldn't mind playing it for 100+ rounds. However, if it's the same thing over and over again, I rather not participate in the events.

Next, accessibility, events should be extended for a week or 2 instead of players putting in effort to fill a 100% bar. The idea of filling in a 100% bar can be done so for alert missions like one of this every week and players who participated receive a rare mod package or something non-exclusive. If you're gonna give out exclusive items, this should be extended so that everybody can participate and commit a decent amount of time, otherwise, players would feel that it isn't fair and QQ thread arises. Event periods should assure players with "hey you can go out and celebrate the holidays, the event will be here for 2 weeks" instead of "YOU BETTER GET YOUR A*S IN HERE OR YOU WILL FEEL AN ETERNITY OF REGRET."

 

Another issue is that rewards are not clearly announced until a later date as always. For example Frost Prime was generally interpreted to be exclusive, turns out, everybody could get it later on.
Next, Primed Chamber was generally interpreted to be obtainable through normal loot drops, in the end, it wasn't.
Next, no rewards were mention for the recent Arid event, near the end of the event, BAM 3 tiers of mod rewards.

 

RNG

 

Spare some thought for the people who grind weeks for an item. Input a currency system that also rewards the player based on time spent.
For example, a planet currency. Pluto Tokens can be obtained for each run spent on Pluto's boss, Ambulas. After 50 runs, players can exchange 50 tokens for 1 Excalibur part which they can then choose from the shop.

Same thing can be applied for Void. Lower chances drop will cost more Void Tokens than the others with higher chance drops.

 

Exclusive items

 

The types of exclusive item DE has been giving away is just sad. The type of exclusive items given should be purely for aesthetic purposes. For example, instead of giving away Lato Vandal or Braton Vandal for the closed beta players, a rifle and pistol skin should be given in their place. Same for Snipetron Vandal from the event (No, I am not stating this because I don't own them, in fact, I do). The Dojo statues are a good example of exclusive items, made for purely aesthetic purposes.
The worst crime of all is Primed Chamber mod (okay, I may not own this but again, not doing it for the sake of QQ). It is alright to reward players with Primed Chamber for working hard in the events but ever since DERebecca's statement of "Ah, we did not say the Primed Chamber mod is Exclusive to the Drone weekend event, it was just the first time it was introduced. Sorry for the confusion there! I imagine it will appear again in future events.", Primed Chamber has never shown itself once more, making it no different from being exclusive for the time being. If DE's gonna reward players with power, it should be easily accessible so that it is fair for all who worked hard. Worst of all, the existence of Charged Chamber is just mocking the players. There are many players who strives their best only to be rejected because they didn't push a little harder than expected (same goes for the recent Arid event).

Final Thoughts

 

Warframe has been fun for me but ever since the recent few contents, it has been going downhill and it's not as fun as it used to be. I will be rooting for DE no matter what, but clearly, some issue needs to be solved. In that mean time, I will be inactive on Warframe as a max ranked player, best of all, DE.

(I apologize for any grammar, vocabulary or sentence structure mistakes if there are any)

Edited August 14, 2013 by hydrater

[Ronyn]

The whole prime system is BS.

I love this game and I have been fans of DE for many years...

but come on. Primes are just better versions of things.

That is a bad way to do it.

[Lukedu_]

Lots of good points in this topic.

 

This means nothing you pointed out will be addressed anytime soon.

[Qynchou]

Weapon powers, specific weapon mods (mod for supra, mod for dual cleavers etc) to make weapons different.

 

I suggested that 5 or more times, now, I dont take that my ideas are godly but come on, to make weapons unique its that simple.

[RejectionOfFate]

Lots of good points in this topic.

 

This means nothing you pointed out will be addressed anytime soon.

Sad but true... +1 to the Original poster.

[Operator_Error]

Lots of good points in this topic.

 

This means nothing you pointed out will be addressed anytime soon.

 

But it's still worth the discussion.

 

+1.

[DirkDeadeye]

Lots of good points in this topic.

 

This means nothing you pointed out will be addressed anytime soon ever.

 

fixed

Edited August 13, 2013 by DirkDeadeye

[herbbug]

I call shenanigans, give us fish sword and everything will be better :D

[J.C.Santos]

Actually liked to read the post. I will have to agree, specially with the weapons and modules section.

Prime weapons need to be diferent but not a direct upgrade. I liked the fact that Orthos Prime wasn't a direct upgrade for Orthos. I actually kept my Orthos because I liked it more. But I don't know why, I did not forma my Orthos. I felt that something was wrong and the lastest hotfix made glad I didn't forma my Orthos. Now Orthos Prime is, as all other Prime weapons, a direct upgrade of Orthos. C'mon. I would love to see the Prime weapons system reinvented. I wouldn't even mind if they were only skins, but since people don't want that I would say stat modifiers. Prime weapons would present different stats from their originals to the point where it could allow players to use the same weapon but with a different focus in terms of play style. For instance, Paris could be focused on fast combat and quick attacks and Paris Prime would deal much more damage but for the penalty of reduced fire rate. Paris would excel in close/ mid-combat and Paris Prime in long range combat. Paris would be for those who want to use a bow on the front-lines and Paris Prime for those that prefer a more methodical gameplay. Still, I prefer the idea of Prime Weapons just being skins like I think Alt. Helmets should be.

The mods I so agree with you. I've been discussing this with some friends. Even if you want to use different mods you can't! Upgrading your Warframe revolves around the same old mods. Lucky update 9 brought dual stat mods which was actually refreshing but it also brough very cool mods that can't be used since they are still obsolete when compared with the same old builds. I would love to make my Frost a huge tank with Shield, HP, Shield Regen, Armour, Elemental Resistance, Retribution and Heavy Impact mods. It would be sweet. But then I see how ineffective such a build would be when compared with the traditional ones. It's sad.

[RyanDaniel638]

+1.

[Bakim0n0]

I love this game, I still do... But I really just have a hard time actually playing it most of my reasons clearly lined out in the OP.

The event I felt the best about... the easter event. What was it? A basically free color palette (it cost credits), they made breakable containers look like eggs and corpus had bunny ears... that's it.

It was the only event I really felt relayed a sense of celebration and enjoyment even though the only changes where exclusively cosmetic.

The worst part is... I don't even feel that was very good event, but it's the only one I really qualify as good (IN MY PERSONAL OPINION K GUISE?) because every other event has felt like a soul sucking chore. I killed myself on the first one, was gravely disappointing in how trivial the rewards were (hell, at the time Thunderbolt was amazing, but they quickly fixed that) and saw that was going to be the new norm and really lost all interest in participating in similar events.

It is painful because, the *game play* of warframe is beautiful despite the personalities (some of those personalities people consider flaws) and if I just get on to kill 10 min or so I still deeply enjoy the experience.

The way weapons are being haphazardly pushed out has been a very long-term complaint of mine... I personally think it stems to the problem of Forma in a big way; in terms of what content they can push out...

Essentially new weapons *have* to be functionally different or they will be met with one of two problems...
power creep (now that weapon you put 5 stars on is less useful and you feel cheated)

or

uselessness (at it's best the weapon will never be on par with your favored primary even after 5 starring it, so why bother doing anything with it but leveling it and throwing it away?)

I'd say more but I got things to do... maybe later on tonight I will be back.
 

[Chris9428]

It's pretty difficult to balance between things which are difficult to obtain or not.

It may take weeks to get Paris Prime, but you can get Paris in a day. (without rushing)

 

But your point is true though. +1

[Valkyrie9001]

Warframe was genuinely a good game during U7. Now, I'm beginning to see effects of power creep and the entire fast paced action game turning into toilet games, where you play for the sake of killing time.

[Eisen]

Im not playing anymore because this game is freaking boring now.

[Nipcat]

Well written, agree on most points, +1

[iamLoveless]

The only thing I disagree with is your take on Prime Weapons. They were built by the Orokin themselves and are a *@##$ to obtain, sort of seems like they should be better than standard fare.

 

As for the rest of it, well, it's spot on. Alot of theses issues have been pervasive since the game's closed beta, and have not been addressed in any real capacity by DE. The game is neat, but players will leave once they realize how monotonous, boring, easy, and chore-like it can be to play this game long term. 

 

I often ask myself why I still play this game, and I never find an answer. It's just so damn repetitive. I suppose I see potential, and I have nothing better to waste my time on.

[NoirProxy]

It is quite interesting seeing all these threads about the game becoming really boring for players now when you can kind of see that the game we have now is basically what DE probably had planned all along. It is why they keep throwing weapon content at us.

 

The original concept as Steve mentioned in a few interviews is that you are killing hundreds of dudes like a bad &#!. THE PROBLEM though is that it only sounds good on paper. Actually making that sentence a reality is based on if you can give depth to the reason for trying to be bad &#! in the first place. It has been obvious since update 8 that Warframe is a one trick pony game and anything many of the delusional Warframe players who believe having a BETA tag slapped on a game means something magic will happen are like always clinically insane.

 

What you have right now is what you get forever. What we have here is a video game concept that wasn't developed beyond its initial proposal, a concept that had chance to grow for the many years since Dark Sector was in development and eventually released.

 

Warframe has always needed a story but making a good story for a game and implementing it costs time and money that DE probably don't have. That is why Warframe and the final result everyone was hoping for can't come to light because Warframe has a product is way too ambitious for a company like DE. It might be hard to accept but it is the truth.

 

I mean the amount of slip ups and mathematical errors in the balancing of the average stat tables in content is kind of a sign that something wrong is going on within the DE enclave or that someone isn't doing that job correctly, or knows how to do the job they were given correctly.

 

That isn't DE's fault though it is just that Warframe is as I mentioned an incredibly ambitious project, a project that probably should have been given a couple of mill to make happen properly.

 

The release is only a few months away and if Warframe is still in BETA by the time the PS4 hits then I think everyone should have learnt their lesson from reading into this BETA nonsense. I really do hope Warframe succeeds but like I said at the start of this post. What we see is what we will pretty much get for the majority of our time in Warframe, which is sad in my mind.

 

Right now DE need to just STOP and take a step back to look at their baby. Maybe they have done that but what we can take from the livestreams is that they indulging themselves more in making cash content to keep the game a float. In my mind the game needs to have this focused on based on a list of priorities:

 

1: Fix core bugs, stats, animation problems, UI errors, etc

 

2: Develop a core story to keep the playerbase motivated and to allow future event content to be based off.

 

3: Refine core game features, such as stealth.

 

4: Redevelop game modes to give them more context and meaning.

 

At the moment we are been handed stuff that to be honest is just a bunch of rubbish if you think about it. An aquarium? Really? How many of us actually stared at Commander Shepards fish for more than 5 seconds apart from when we were having to feed them?

 

A trophy room? Ugh, the player base has been suggesting and demanding more important rooms than this stuff for weeks and months now like the option of a weapon test range to try out weapons they might want to fork money on. "NO! WE NEED THAT FISH TANK READY STAT! IF I CAN'T STARE AT MY CLOWN FISH CALLED MR FRICKLEPOP FOR 10 MINUTES INSTEAD OF KILLING SPACE MARINES THEN I DON'T WANT TO PLAY!"

 

As I said the game needs to have its major stuff fixed first before we get anymore of this cash crap shoved in our faces even more. There are so many problems from Alpha and early Beta that still haven't been fixed yet we are supposed to be excited over the massive work of a larger koi pond? Come on now!

[Eisvogel]

Whoah... you weren't kidding with the long wall of text.

All valid points, i think most of us want this points addressed..... instead of releasing more "content" of meaningless weapons and dots (missions) that don't extend the fun at all (i am already bored of phobos and there's no real reason for me to play it again now that i have both mitter and gremlins).

 

Feel free to check some of the suggestions i've proposed on gameplay feedback:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/92326-we-need-endgame-and-a-challenge-what-do-we-expect-for-warframes-future/

 

 

We really need DE to start focusing on this rather on more tilesets/weapons. We first need a reason to play those tilesets, find challenge in the game and to be bored just grinding for the sake of grinding.

[HomeyCDawg]

All valid complaints imo. +1

[Alohoe]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/91408-psa-gd-is-not-general-feedback-put-your-feedback-in-the-feedback-forums/

[Hipolipolopigus]

Properly structured paragraphs?! -Applause-

 

But this belongs in Feedback :P

[hydrater]

I have to leave in a few minutes. I leave it to you guys to summon the mods and move the thread.
I always thought feedback section was a ghost town.

[AldenKing]

I would debate the whole spiel on Prime Weapons, since many of the Prime Weapons require a significant amount of grind compared to their normal versions (Unless you get lucky). Your old Paris would only feel useless when you have the new Paris Prime, and from what I hear, that's not an easy step to go into unless you are willing to spend a lot of time (or again, you get lucky)

 

They SHOULD be a direct upgrade in terms of raw stats and power, that's how you feel that you have progressed in game, that you have a new tier of weapons and gear that are superior then your old ones. 

[Hayden11121]

DE doesn't check general discussion.

 

If you're here to QQ, leave it, otherwise message a mod to change it to weapon feedback or gameplay feedback.

[Cleesus]

DE doesn't check general discussion.

 

If you're here to QQ, leave it, otherwise message a mod to change it to weapon feedback or gameplay feedback.

Well this is more than weapon or gamplay feedback if you would care to read it. Rebecca checks this forum frequently and can easily forward this post to other DE staff.

 

 

Anyway, I agree with everything in your post Hydrater, ive been playing this game for a long time and it seems like it isnt getting better. DE only has around two more months to get this game in shape for the PS4.