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[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD


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On 2018-05-24 at 1:22 AM, Kromatia said:

So my thoughts on Saryn's rework.....I hate being in a squad with a Saryn.

Her abilities are great and the buff was much needed, however, she has returned to being a Press 4 To Win frame with the ability to clear rooms with minimal effort given. I'm sure most people are happy that they can just AFK in a game, but I'm here to PLAY said game, not have it be played for me by a Saryn with stupidly high range that can clear an entire sanctuary onslaught tile with a single press of 4. Please limit this range to a maximum of say 50 meters or something. It's very boring and frustrating not being able to kill anything at all and watching the game be played for me. I come to enjoy my time and I'm adding Saryn to the list of frames I refuse to play with in Pubs.

This is only the case at low level missions...and I don't think that should be used to balance a frame. Stop playing easy mode missions.

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I like the changes a lot, you just have to set her up correctly to spread spores and keep up damage. I use rad procs so enemies help me spread spores. This ramps it up super quick even if your previous burst has decayed. 

Molt is amazing now and doesn't die as quickly at super high levels. It's great CC keeping you totally safe once you figure out how to place it correctly. The speed boost is actually pretty cool in terms of making you more survivable. 

Toxic lash roooooocks for both melee and guns. I mostly use a rad/viral Mara Detron with 2 full sets of Arcane Awakening and it hits like a truck. Anything that doesn't die instantly helps me spread spores thanks to rad procs. 

Miasma is situational for me. If enemies are clustered up, I use my guns or melee...if they're all spread out over a larger area, I occasionally trigger Miasma to spread spores...not as a main damage ability. Also handy for extra CC. 

I don't think anyone can complain about the damage output. Imo only Banshee/Octavia come even close to her kills per second figure. On top of that, her CC is a lot better now, making her a lot more survivable at post Sortie level missions. 

If you don't totally neglect duration, put most of the points into strength/range and fit a rad weapons, you don't have any issues with damage or "tank". She can still "nuke" rooms at low/mid levels and at higher levels, her damage output is still almost unrivalled if you set her up correctly. If you use a room nuker build, damage will fall off at higher levels and depending on the mission type. You have to work for her insane damage to materialize, and imo that's balanced. 

Edited by (PS4)Radehx
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While in general, I do like a lot of the changes made for Saryn, I have to say that I feel like removing the spread on death by Spore was a bad choice.  Now that's not to say I don't understand why this was put in place, to block the set and forget mentality where Saryn just dominates entire maps by doing literally nothing, but rather I think Saryn needs to be somewhat of an exception to still fit her theme.

Saryn is a disease based Warframe, IE: she should be starting small and spreading exponentially till she's infected the entire area, which she does.  But the problem is that infection doesn't really maintain itself, it is directly influenced by Saryn.  To me, to have the spread entirely dependent on an outside force just feels more like a Nova prime that spreads when you detonate an enemy rather than a disease.  I would much rather see some smaller remnant of that disease constantly being spread on its own than to be reliant on me being there to spread it.

Personally, I would just like to see it so that if an enemy dies to a spore, then it still infects nearby enemies, but rather than giving them the full damage proc that enemies infected by spores you actually pop yourself get, they would start over on damage ramping at the smallest proc.  Then in a supplement to that, they should be able to adopt the higher damage proc if you then detonate a more effective set of spores once you are nearby those enemies.

What this kind of change would allow for is that continued spread that feels very much like a master of disease infecting everything in her wake without simply making her melt the entire map by doing nothing.  She'll be doing relatively little damage to the enemies on the fringe of her "Ground Zero" while still greatly helping the team thanks to status procs and the continued constant spread.  Then once her team finally reaches those fringe enemies, all she has to do is make sure she's been popping spores along the way to bring her virulence with her to maintain the damage output as well.

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Run a KUVA farm and stand around while everything dies pretty much out of sight to this Warframe? Not fun for others around. Pretty similar disaster to Equinox bleeding everything. Power yes? Engaging and enjoyable for other players? Completely not.

I'd like to see DE making frames more engaging and interesting rather than just stronger. There's plenty of content where this sort of frame is just overkill and leaves nothing for utility frames to do. Standing around with an OP pistol or rifle while all enemies die off screen. Using minions or globes to protect a point that has nothing attacking. Finally become somewhat useful at around 40 minutes when things aren't insta dying then everyone wants to leave.

Engaging and fun? Absolutely not. This is just show boating power and really not fun for anyone around. If you're happy to stand around and AFK for loot, this is your frame. Other people choose to engage in actual gameplay.

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1 hour ago, ActionPoohole said:

Run a KUVA farm and stand around while everything dies pretty much out of sight to this Warframe? Not fun for others around. Pretty similar disaster to Equinox bleeding everything. Power yes? Engaging and enjoyable for other players? Completely not.

I'd like to see DE making frames more engaging and interesting rather than just stronger. There's plenty of content where this sort of frame is just overkill and leaves nothing for utility frames to do. Standing around with an OP pistol or rifle while all enemies die off screen. Using minions or globes to protect a point that has nothing attacking. Finally become somewhat useful at around 40 minutes when things aren't insta dying then everyone wants to leave.

Engaging and fun? Absolutely not. This is just show boating power and really not fun for anyone around. If you're happy to stand around and AFK for loot, this is your frame. Other people choose to engage in actual gameplay.

This is only an issue at lower level missions! At higher ones, none of those problems exist. Banshee can't quake everything to death, Equinox needs a lot of work to charge Maim and Saryn can't just hit 4 and nuke everything at once. You can't balance a frame based on low levels because it would make them totally S#&$e at more challenging content. Most frames crush those levels. 

Challenge yourself at higher levels if you want to experience the full power of your frames.

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18 hours ago, (PS4)leonharttribal said:

Is anyone aware of the contagion cloud bug on console augment mod is not working as intended 

Yup. Although I never really use it anyway because it doesn't scale well. Regen Molt is much better imo.

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

This is only an issue at lower level missions! At higher ones, none of those problems exist. Banshee can't quake everything to death, Equinox needs a lot of work to charge Maim and Saryn can't just hit 4 and nuke everything at once. You can't balance a frame based on low levels because it would make them totally S#&$e at more challenging content. Most frames crush those levels. 

Challenge yourself at higher levels if you want to experience the full power of your frames.

The issue is that you spend 30 minutes of what could be spent enjoying shooting things in the head just waiting around doing nothing. A Saryn with high range will complain about your range of desecrate even when you're running a tanky [shield of shadows] build so you can actually engage in combat. I'm not interested in running 250+ range so a Saryn can make us spend 40 minutes being a life support enhancer because they selfishly want to take over the entire game. Most of them know for a fact that they're doing it and they don't care... 8/10 Saryn players that I encounter seem to have this really selfish style of play where they run off down hallways killing everything and calling everyone else noobs if they don't fit their terrible style of play.

KUVA survival is a tool for gaining power through reroll of Rivens. So generally you'll find people that have high power weapons running these places frequently. By the time it gets to about 30-40 minutes the game is over and you've done basically nothing, but get bored senseless. Your weapons are finally starting to see their potential at this point, but then everyone wants to leave because the point ends up getting bombarded or flamed and almost instantly dying.

Why a frame like this even exists in the first place is beyond me, I don't see any engaging mechanics at all.. That's my perspective. I see them run into a hallway, spread spores down the entire thing so nothing can even manage to get close, they switch lanes and do it again while everyone sits at the point and does nothing.

This might be a lot better to deal with if the KUVA Fortress didn't feel like a poorly thought through Excavation that has life support involved. But it's made all the worse by AoE frames (Saryn especially) that take away almost any enjoyment that remains upon the easy and poorly designed setup.

Spores could be designed a much better way and the currently lazy spam fest garbage that it is right now only destroys game modes like these. I know KUVA isn't hard, it's pretty easy... But it could at least be somewhat engaging. From time to time it is when you're carrying some newbies through. But it's just depressing to have a Saryn turn 40 minutes of what could feel like 10 minutes into something that seems to take hours. I thought half an hour had gone by, I check the timer and it's at about 15 minutes. All because I had about probably 10 stray enemies to kill.

Frames like this are lazy, lazy, lazy. Lazy = Boring.

There's no need for map nuking and the trend is getting old really fast.

Whatever happened to gunplay? Seems to have taken a back seat to game destroying AoE abilities. I see more often than not people who were looking for Nuke Trinities to Farm Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. Glad that was fixed because it was an atrocity to gaming. But the developers left it because noobs were enjoying it... They didn't intend for the function to work with Aviator, it was an accident. It took how long to fix? It should have been fixed instantly... But the developers don't seem to care about that. Hell, I made a complaint about the function of [Magnum Force] not working at all for the [arca scisco] and they don't seem at all interested. The mod doesn't spread multishot with MANY weapons like it should. But instead of fixing that, they turn Saryn into this? This whatever it is? I have no idea...

There seems to be this endless META switching because DE keep making frames or changing other frames to be the go to's for lazy, lazy and boring farming. Bring energy and buffs and a leech for them to all stand around for 1 hour while they press a button. That's not gaming, that's a farming addiction.

I think DE know this, that people get addicted to loot so instead of actually providing engaging mechanics, they give people ways to nuke maps to feed their addictions rather than rewarding skillful play. This is typical of developers these days to cater to this sort of thing.

Eventually people will realise that they're not actually enjoying themselves and that they're just addicted to loot. Hell, I'm addicted to loot too. But I'm not happy to aquire it by standing around for hours doing nothing.

Pitiful excuse for gaming. I'll make a suggestion to any Saryn players who want to come in and take over games with this garbage: Please warn people first and have some manners to let them know that they will be doing virtually nothing for 40 minutes.

As for end game or harder content? I wish. Survivals are the only real place for that IMO as they scale well and endlessly slam you with enemies. But that doesn't work so well with KUVA due to running from point to point and leaving enemies spawning all over the place to catch up. In the end you have to leave due to life support issues unless you have a Nekros and because of that, rinse and repeat. No challenge and enjoyment is worn very thin when map nukers are happy to join and make you do nothing.

Let them know that they're making life support run out? Most of the time they will blame you, and the rest of them with half an ounce of give a stuff for anyone else will go "oh, sorry" and stop using their map nuke and claim they didn't realise.

I might not be a game Developer and I'm not saying I could do better. But if it was in my hands there would never have been a chance for this sorta horrible gameplay to happen. I'm a loot addict and a gamer as well. Not just a loot addict 1 button pressing afker.

DE, please start working on engaging Warframes and bring weapons back into the spotlight because this is garbage. Please!

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32 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

The issue is that you spend 30 minutes of what could be spent enjoying shooting things in the head just waiting around doing nothing. A Saryn with high range will complain about your range of desecrate even when you're running a tanky [shield of shadows] build so you can actually engage in combat. I'm not interested in running 250+ range so a Saryn can make us spend 40 minutes being a life support enhancer because they selfishly want to take over the entire game. Most of them know for a fact that they're doing it and they don't care... 8/10 Saryn players that I encounter seem to have this really selfish style of play where they run off down hallways killing everything and calling everyone else noobs if they don't fit their terrible style of play.

KUVA survival is a tool for gaining power through reroll of Rivens. So generally you'll find people that have high power weapons running these places frequently. By the time it gets to about 30-40 minutes the game is over and you've done basically nothing, but get bored senseless. Your weapons are finally starting to see their potential at this point, but then everyone wants to leave because the point ends up getting bombarded or flamed and almost instantly dying.

Why a frame like this even exists in the first place is beyond me, I don't see any engaging mechanics at all.. That's my perspective. I see them run into a hallway, spread spores down the entire thing so nothing can even manage to get close, they switch lanes and do it again while everyone sits at the point and does nothing.

This might be a lot better to deal with if the KUVA Fortress didn't feel like a poorly thought through Excavation that has life support involved. But it's made all the worse by AoE frames (Saryn especially) that take away almost any enjoyment that remains upon the easy and poorly designed setup.

Spores could be designed a much better way and the currently lazy spam fest garbage that it is right now only destroys game modes like these. I know KUVA isn't hard, it's pretty easy... But it could at least be somewhat engaging. From time to time it is when you're carrying some newbies through. But it's just depressing to have a Saryn turn 40 minutes of what could feel like 10 minutes into something that seems to take hours. I thought half an hour had gone by, I check the timer and it's at about 15 minutes. All because I had about probably 10 stray enemies to kill.

Frames like this are lazy, lazy, lazy. Lazy = Boring.

There's no need for map nuking and the trend is getting old really fast.

Whatever happened to gunplay? Seems to have taken a back seat to game destroying AoE abilities. I see more often than not people who were looking for Nuke Trinities to Farm Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. Glad that was fixed because it was an atrocity to gaming. But the developers left it because noobs were enjoying it... They didn't intend for the function to work with Aviator, it was an accident. It took how long to fix? It should have been fixed instantly... But the developers don't seem to care about that. Hell, I made a complaint about the function of [Magnum Force] not working at all for the [arca scisco] and they don't seem at all interested. The mod doesn't spread multishot with MANY weapons like it should. But instead of fixing that, they turn Saryn into this? This whatever it is? I have no idea...

There seems to be this endless META switching because DE keep making frames or changing other frames to be the go to's for lazy, lazy and boring farming. Bring energy and buffs and a leech for them to all stand around for 1 hour while they press a button. That's not gaming, that's a farming addiction.

I think DE know this, that people get addicted to loot so instead of actually providing engaging mechanics, they give people ways to nuke maps to feed their addictions rather than rewarding skillful play. This is typical of developers these days to cater to this sort of thing.

Eventually people will realise that they're not actually enjoying themselves and that they're just addicted to loot. Hell, I'm addicted to loot too. But I'm not happy to aquire it by standing around for hours doing nothing.

Pitiful excuse for gaming. I'll make a suggestion to any Saryn players who want to come in and take over games with this garbage: Please warn people first and have some manners to let them know that they will be doing virtually nothing for 40 minutes.

As for end game or harder content? I wish. Survivals are the only real place for that IMO as they scale well and endlessly slam you with enemies. But that doesn't work so well with KUVA due to running from point to point and leaving enemies spawning all over the place to catch up. In the end you have to leave due to life support issues unless you have a Nekros and because of that, rinse and repeat. No challenge and enjoyment is worn very thin when map nukers are happy to join and make you do nothing.

Let them know that they're making life support run out? Most of the time they will blame you, and the rest of them with half an ounce of give a stuff for anyone else will go "oh, sorry" and stop using their map nuke and claim they didn't realise.

I might not be a game Developer and I'm not saying I could do better. But if it was in my hands there would never have been a chance for this sorta horrible gameplay to happen. I'm a loot addict and a gamer as well. Not just a loot addict 1 button pressing afker.

DE, please start working on engaging Warframes and bring weapons back into the spotlight because this is garbage. Please!

You're missing the point. Most of the recent frames and reworks make it clear they are giving frames scalability. At the low levels you speak about most frames are OP. Nidus kills stuff so quickly you can't kill those enemies either at low levels. Same with Nova. Same with every single frame that has an AOE damage ability. Even those that don't can simply fit a weapon that one-shots stuff so quickly, others will unlikely get off a shot themselves. If I fight lvl30 with a Zarr, I AOE nuke stuff so quickly, you won't be able to fight it either. 

But that's the price you pay for having frames that are useful at higher more challenging (read: fun) levels.

The engaging game mechanics you ask for are there...you just have to stop playing easy-mode content. Also, Saryn isn't making life support run out. Her crazy kills per second figure helps to keep it going! 

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On 2018-06-08 at 4:05 AM, ActionPoohole said:

Run a KUVA farm and stand around while everything dies pretty much out of sight to this Warframe? Not fun for others around. Pretty similar disaster to Equinox bleeding everything. Power yes? Engaging and enjoyable for other players? Completely not.

I'd like to see DE making frames more engaging and interesting rather than just stronger. There's plenty of content where this sort of frame is just overkill and leaves nothing for utility frames to do. Standing around with an OP pistol or rifle while all enemies die off screen. Using minions or globes to protect a point that has nothing attacking. Finally become somewhat useful at around 40 minutes when things aren't insta dying then everyone wants to leave.

Engaging and fun? Absolutely not. This is just show boating power and really not fun for anyone around. If you're happy to stand around and AFK for loot, this is your frame. Other people choose to engage in actual gameplay.



 

I dunno that seems way more fun and engaging than using weapons

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On 2018-06-10 at 11:51 AM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. 

I feel like you're following me to contradict everything I say. FYI: You just agreed with a sarcastic joke he made. At least, I highly doubt anyone would make a serious comment about pressing 1 or 2 buttons and standing around semi-afk making most kills/dps as being more engaging than weapon play.... Just ridiculous. We all hold different standards of what good gameplay is. High kills/dps doesn't substitute for gameplay, it caters to egos and nothing more. So if you enjoy most kills/dps over anything else then that is a problem and I don't think the game should suffer from feedback based upon this premise.

If you are trying to keep up with other people it doesn't sound like much working together is happening. This is a co-op game. Not a 4 x Solo in the same game, game.

So basically you agreed that pressing a button to make kills happen around corners that you can't see is more engaging than shooting enemies with customised weapons that have good frame/weapon synergy? Ummmm... Please, lets just never listen to ridiculous comments like these. More than countless times I've heard people complaining about how bored they are and that they're just there to farm. Always just here farming stuff. Very rarely are people just somewhere because it's truly fun.

So I don't think making frames that are designed just to kill easily to farm with is a good route for the game to be taking. This game will hold only addict players and will be less likely to retain a base of players that actually want some good gameplay. If something better comes along with actual rewarding gameplay (Some day perhaps?) then people will leave or take loooong breaks to play something else due to the game just being an addiction to loot.

You'll be left with addicts who think matching kills with other people is the highlight of enjoyment.... How fun it seems to have 4 Nuke build frames in a game competing for most kills.

Boring. DE: Please listen to actual gamers who don't just say "I like it" with no break down of why or any issues. People who are complacent and think everything is great or fun without any criticism are not the people worth listening to. That's not helpful feedback for improvement. Not at all. Sorry Jak, but your comments lack any substance. You just make simple comments similar to "I like it" or "I think kuva should be a defense"   ........   At least put some effort into your feedback and posts and explain how the community enjoyment will benefit from it rather that "I like it".

Also, if Saryn is super fun and you can kill everything before anyone gets a chance to use weapons or what not.... Then isn't that selfish as hell? Do you really think anyone wants to stand around AFK while you bloat your ego all over your kill counter?

Give me a break. Where are the game mechanics that say "Co op" or "Fun" here ANYWHERE apart from DPS/Kill Counter. I don't see it. I see this as a big flaw in immersion and co op fundamentals.

How is something Co Op if you have 1 person doing everything and the rest are just standing around for you to kill everything. That's just leeching, not co op. Heard of Corrosive Projection Leeching? Yeah, well... EV and BUFFs are still just first tier leeches for the DPS.

Again: Boring.

Edited by ActionPoohole
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1 hour ago, ActionPoohole said:

I feel like you're following me to contradict everything I say. FYI: You just agreed with a sarcastic joke he made. At least, I highly doubt anyone would make a serious comment about pressing 1 or 2 buttons and standing around semi-afk making most kills/dps as being more engaging than weapon play.... Just ridiculous. We all hold different standards of what good gameplay is. High kills/dps doesn't substitute for gameplay, it caters to egos and nothing more. So if you enjoy most kills/dps over anything else then that is a problem and I don't think the game should suffer from feedback based upon this premise.

If you are trying to keep up with other people it doesn't sound like much working together is happening. This is a co-op game. Not a 4 x Solo in the same game, game.

So basically you agreed that pressing a button to make kills happen around corners that you can't see is more engaging than shooting enemies with customised weapons that have good frame/weapon synergy? Ummmm... Please, lets just never listen to ridiculous comments like these. More than countless times I've heard people complaining about how bored they are and that they're just there to farm. Always just here farming stuff. Very rarely are people just somewhere because it's truly fun.

So I don't think making frames that are designed just to kill easily to farm with is a good route for the game to be taking. This game will hold only addict players and will be less likely to retain a base of players that actually want some good gameplay. If something better comes along with actual rewarding gameplay (Some day perhaps?) then people will leave or take loooong breaks to play something else due to the game just being an addiction to loot.

You'll be left with addicts who think matching kills with other people is the highlight of enjoyment.... How fun it seems to have 4 Nuke build frames in a game competing for most kills.

Boring. DE: Please listen to actual gamers who don't just say "I like it" with no break down of why or any issues. People who are complacent and think everything is great or fun without any criticism are not the people worth listening to. That's not helpful feedback for improvement. Not at all. Sorry Jak, but your comments lack any substance. You just make simple comments similar to "I like it" or "I think kuva should be a defense"   ........   At least put some effort into your feedback and posts and explain how the community enjoyment will benefit from it rather that "I like it".

Also, if Saryn is super fun and you can kill everything before anyone gets a chance to use weapons or what not.... Then isn't that selfish as hell? Do you really think anyone wants to stand around AFK while you bloat your ego all over your kill counter?

Give me a break. Where are the game mechanics that say "Co op" or "Fun" here ANYWHERE apart from DPS/Kill Counter. I don't see it. I see this as a big flaw in immersion and co op fundamentals.

How is something Co Op if you have 1 person doing everything and the rest are just standing around for you to kill everything. That's just leeching, not co op. Heard of Corrosive Projection Leeching? Yeah, well... EV and BUFFs are still just first tier leeches for the DPS.

Again: Boring.

Actually, i said ive played with many saryn's plural. Meaning ive played other frames in co-op matches with saryn and matched them for kills... Provided... "I actually work for them"

Perhaps read next time....?

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10 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Actually, i said ive played with many saryn's plural. Meaning ive played other frames in co-op matches with saryn and matched them for kills... Provided... "I actually work for them"

Perhaps read next time....?

So somehow I've misread you because you are talking about being Saryn being super fun: (I guess you are perhaps putting yourself in others shoes and feeling their emotions for them again)

"I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. "

Your sentense was just strangely composed. It was very late for me and I wasn't awake enough to decipher unusual sentense construction. I did actually read what you wrote. Next time I'll attempt to make sure I'm on high alert to not get confused by your strange writing style and apply my best efforts to decipher what you write better. It's my bad, sorry about that.

So obviously I was wrong in this specific instance, I will admit this. Admitting when you make a mistake is something you could also give me the courtesy of. Virtually every other post I've made so far; you've purposely ignored my points and not replied to them. So it's me making an error in making sense of what you wrote, compared to your purposely ignoring me and my points? Yet you post this smart alec response: "Perhaps read next time....?" Come on, have a little more tact.

So, moving on...

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to which frame and or weapons you used to keep up in kills and how you are engaging in this "combat". Because if you're just keeping up with also using AoE map nuking abilities then that isn't really part of the discussion. Keeping up with map nukes by using map nukes is along the same lines of just having more than one Saryn.

So please answer:

  • Which mission were you on?
  • How long were you there?
  • What level were the enemies?
  • What weapons/abilities were you using to keep up?
  • Have you tried this on KUVA survival?
  • Have you tried playing as a non map nuking frame and keeping up with using weapons?
  • If you keep up using weapons then what map did this happen on?
  • Did you have to race off anywhere in order to make kills before the corrosive damage melted them into slush?
  • Please note any other determining factors that allowed you to keep up with Saryn map nuke.

A little bit of information apart from:

"I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. "

Then telling me I didn't read? There are still other points in my thread that you ignored; all due to a technicality.

I'd love to understand a little more about your perspective because that short sentense says practically nothing about your experience. Also; next time it would be nice if you could compose your one liners with a little more comprehension because that sentense to me was just garble about you thinking Saryn is superfun when other people play it while you keep up in kills. It's was a tad strange don't you think? I do.

Just to note: Matching kills has nothing to do with enjoying a game. Matching kills is just an EGO counter. (IMO)

Edited by ActionPoohole
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4 hours ago, ActionPoohole said:

So somehow I've misread you because you are talking about being Saryn being super fun: (I guess you are perhaps putting yourself in others shoes and feeling their emotions for them again)

"I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. "

Your sentense was just strangely composed. It was very late for me and I wasn't awake enough to decipher unusual sentense construction. I did actually read what you wrote. Next time I'll attempt to make sure I'm on high alert to not get confused by your strange writing style and apply my best efforts to decipher what you write better. It's my bad, sorry about that.

So obviously I was wrong in this specific instance, I will admit this. Admitting when you make a mistake is something you could also give me the courtesy of. Virtually every other post I've made so far; you've purposely ignored my points and not replied to them. So it's me making an error in making sense of what you wrote, compared to your purposely ignoring me and my points? Yet you post this smart alec response: "Perhaps read next time....?" Come on, have a little more tact.

So, moving on...

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to which frame and or weapons you used to keep up in kills and how you are engaging in this "combat". Because if you're just keeping up with also using AoE map nuking abilities then that isn't really part of the discussion. Keeping up with map nukes by using map nukes is along the same lines of just having more than one Saryn.

So please answer:

  • Which mission were you on?
  • How long were you there?
  • What level were the enemies?
  • What weapons/abilities were you using to keep up?
  • Have you tried this on KUVA survival?
  • Have you tried playing as a non map nuking frame and keeping up with using weapons?
  • If you keep up using weapons then what map did this happen on?
  • Did you have to race off anywhere in order to make kills before the corrosive damage melted them into slush?
  • Please note any other determining factors that allowed you to keep up with Saryn map nuke.

A little bit of information apart from:

"I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. "

Then telling me I didn't read? There are still other points in my thread that you ignored; all due to a technicality.

I'd love to understand a little more about your perspective because that short sentense says practically nothing about your experience. Also; next time it would be nice if you could compose your one liners with a little more comprehension because that sentense to me was just garble about you thinking Saryn is superfun when other people play it while you keep up in kills. It's was a tad strange don't you think? I do.

Just to note: Matching kills has nothing to do with enjoying a game. Matching kills is just an EGO counter. (IMO)

Let me break this down for you...

Saryn is super fun to play.

I have also played with many other players... Who play with... saryn and can match them for kills.... Provided.... Im.... Willing.... To.... Work... For.... Them.

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On 2018-06-13 at 3:13 AM, ActionPoohole said:

So somehow I've misread you because you are talking about being Saryn being super fun: (I guess you are perhaps putting yourself in others shoes and feeling their emotions for them again)

"I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. "

Your sentense was just strangely composed. It was very late for me and I wasn't awake enough to decipher unusual sentense construction. I did actually read what you wrote. Next time I'll attempt to make sure I'm on high alert to not get confused by your strange writing style and apply my best efforts to decipher what you write better. It's my bad, sorry about that.

So obviously I was wrong in this specific instance, I will admit this. Admitting when you make a mistake is something you could also give me the courtesy of. Virtually every other post I've made so far; you've purposely ignored my points and not replied to them. So it's me making an error in making sense of what you wrote, compared to your purposely ignoring me and my points? Yet you post this smart alec response: "Perhaps read next time....?" Come on, have a little more tact.

So, moving on...

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to which frame and or weapons you used to keep up in kills and how you are engaging in this "combat". Because if you're just keeping up with also using AoE map nuking abilities then that isn't really part of the discussion. Keeping up with map nukes by using map nukes is along the same lines of just having more than one Saryn.

So please answer:

  • Which mission were you on?
  • How long were you there?
  • What level were the enemies?
  • What weapons/abilities were you using to keep up?
  • Have you tried this on KUVA survival?
  • Have you tried playing as a non map nuking frame and keeping up with using weapons?
  • If you keep up using weapons then what map did this happen on?
  • Did you have to race off anywhere in order to make kills before the corrosive damage melted them into slush?
  • Please note any other determining factors that allowed you to keep up with Saryn map nuke.

A little bit of information apart from:

"I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. "

Then telling me I didn't read? There are still other points in my thread that you ignored; all due to a technicality.

I'd love to understand a little more about your perspective because that short sentense says practically nothing about your experience. Also; next time it would be nice if you could compose your one liners with a little more comprehension because that sentense to me was just garble about you thinking Saryn is superfun when other people play it while you keep up in kills. It's was a tad strange don't you think? I do.

Just to note: Matching kills has nothing to do with enjoying a game. Matching kills is just an EGO counter. (IMO)

 

- Ik this was not for me to answer but I just thought I'd answer some questions

I run saryn with 175-90 range, 151 duration, norm efficiency, survivability and around 170-200 strength.

Tested with ranged melee weapons, gunblade and throwing (throwing is my person pref so I mostly go with dual wielding). - Mainly hek and tenora.

At first It was problematic to play her. Now it's just meh to play and a 50/50. I mean, when it comes to kuva survival, defense, and such it's a hit and miss. I don't run the meta build so i rarely worry about keeping stacks up unless the content reaches 70+ (everyone wants to leave at 20 so it rarely happens but when it does spores is important). Idk I find that playing her is fun and at the same time so tedious just from her one. See I'm sure that mot can be crushed easily in solo. But it seems like now, it is so much easier to make mistakes in teamplay, which can completely #*!% up your stacks (nidus doesn't run into that problem because it's not on a friggin clock lol). IMO DE needs to fix that. Other than that floods are decent (all missions where since her 2 makes her a little more versatile because of her speed (rescue, and such), and her 1 actually lasts building stacks and allowing time for you to spread it to others. This probably seems really winded and choppy of a paragraph, but I think saryn is actually still fun in a lot of missions (as long as they are 30+ and any mode). Do I think 3.5 is better than 2.0? well tbh we didn't need 3.5, we just needed the inconsistency and bugs on her 1 to be fixed. But after playing her for quite a bit, she isn't really as badly done as I thought.

I think what the guy wanted to really say was that his definition of fun was to contribute to the team by doing what saryn does (well her main function), which is to just kill everything. My definition of fun around her (for any frame really), is just dual wielding and S#&$, keeping the 3 up, and hitting those high dmg numbers from procs and CO. But I get that matching kills can be egotistic, and that it isnt fun for the rest of the team. But when a team has a good composition (debuff, dps, healer, buffer) everything becomes fun xD. 

To De: I think that saryn at first was somewhat hazy but I'm pretty much a diehard saryn fan so I just said, "forget it, Imma adapt". At first I believed that builds would only work as the max range meta, but I can say that she is still pretty versatile (maybe even more so for people whole like speed running, team buffing, etc.). Her whole gameplay has changed completely from debuffer to high-level content dmg dealer/nuker/self buffer, which I dont know is great (because i still liked the debuffer gameplay). Overall (even with the comment about 'changing frames if you don't like the rework', which was pretty rude), the change that saryn got wasn't what she needed, but it's not like it completely screwed her from head to toe. She's still pretty fun to me for the reason the she has other utilities crammed into her, and that you still have to work hard at endgame (while saryn 2.0 was constant hard work and reliance on weapon dmg and procing, 3.5 now seems to project a trend in which you have to work hard to make sure you keep your ability up by any means possible to make sure you can strip and damage all enemies no matter how far you get, which again as mentioned above becomes really painful during pub matches). I would suggest a way to store dmg (which was mentioned many times by other players) either by on the clone or maybe on a dead corpse (probably not the greatest idea, but it at least gives you time to look for something to pass to without having to keep 1 eye on stacks and the other eye on not getting 1 shotted.

Edited by Heatie
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Every single game, Saryn on 50% or more. Saryns levelling up frames, 40%, once levelled up 60%+

That's just the typical thing. What makes it worse is getting to a hallway and seeing enemies falling into slush every single time you're winding up a charge weapon. Feels like the entire team is just waiting for Saryns damage to fall off... Which doesn't seem to happen.

It's just a boring, game hogging frame that takes over everything and trivialise weapons etc...

This was NOT a nerf, it was a buff and the numbers clearly show it. Saryn didn't need a buff, she needed a rework, this was both a rework and a buff.

I'm tired of having weapons that seem useless when a Saryn is around, I quit games frequently. People say "efficiency" ... You can't really be more efficient in a KUVA farm, so that's a weak excuse. It's 1 minute to defend per harvester, and doing most of the damage while everyone stands around is nothing about efficiency, now anyone with Saryn will get most DPS as everything just dies and we stand around doing nothing.

And I see various times that when their damage falls off due to a bad build, they want to leave at that exact point. So we stand around while they take over the game and they run to the exit when their build finally sucks. And for a player with a good build, that doesn't happen.

Tired of this monotony. I run invite only, the moment I run public again, join a game? Saryn is there, almost 90% of the time, and it's getting old... and fast.

It reminds me of going to the index with Trinity exploding her own feet for credits while we all stood around collecting green gems? That's not gaming, that's just stupidity... And Saryn is following suit. PLEASE NERF or RE-REWORK this is not acceptable gameplay mechanics; having everyone stand around twilling thumbs till a Saryn wants to finally exit the map

Edited by ActionPoohole
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On 2018-06-06 at 11:12 PM, Ceadeus said:

While in general, I do like a lot of the changes made for Saryn, I have to say that I feel like removing the spread on death by Spore was a bad choice.  Now that's not to say I don't understand why this was put in place, to block the set and forget mentality where Saryn just dominates entire maps by doing literally nothing, but rather I think Saryn needs to be somewhat of an exception to still fit her theme.

Saryn is a disease based Warframe, IE: she should be starting small and spreading exponentially till she's infected the entire area, which she does.  But the problem is that infection doesn't really maintain itself, it is directly influenced by Saryn.  To me, to have the spread entirely dependent on an outside force just feels more like a Nova prime that spreads when you detonate an enemy rather than a disease.  I would much rather see some smaller remnant of that disease constantly being spread on its own than to be reliant on me being there to spread it.

Personally, I would just like to see it so that if an enemy dies to a spore, then it still infects nearby enemies, but rather than giving them the full damage proc that enemies infected by spores you actually pop yourself get, they would start over on damage ramping at the smallest proc.  Then in a supplement to that, they should be able to adopt the higher damage proc if you then detonate a more effective set of spores once you are nearby those enemies.

What this kind of change would allow for is that continued spread that feels very much like a master of disease infecting everything in her wake without simply making her melt the entire map by doing nothing.  She'll be doing relatively little damage to the enemies on the fringe of her "Ground Zero" while still greatly helping the team thanks to status procs and the continued constant spread.  Then once her team finally reaches those fringe enemies, all she has to do is make sure she's been popping spores along the way to bring her virulence with her to maintain the damage output as well.

I agree with this. I have spent many games standing around doing nothing while Saryn goes "Hiss" once or twice here and there while we all stand around doing nothing.

AoE frames are okay, but not when they don't have to do anything to earn what they are doing.

It's really not fair on other frames and gamers that have to wait around for a long time before they become of any relevance. Seems that Nekros gets told off for not having high enough range, where as Saryn doesn't get told off for having too much. There's no balance in this matter.

It's boring for one and efficiency in killing is a weak excuse. We don't need things dying way, WAY off the screen. That's really not enjoyable to me, I don't understand who that is fun for, but those people who enjoy this I believe are fresh gamers who haven't experienced what I believe to be good quality mechanics egotistic DPS hog players. This aspect of Saryn is anti-fun and game hogging.

There's no reason to be doing such a huge amount of damage with such high range when no one else gets a chance to even SEE most of the enemies that are dying. Enemies should die to spread damage, at least that would give other players some Synergy with Saryn to maximise her damage so we can become a part of it. But we're not, we're literally left out of any interaction with this, instead we are fighting her abilities for the chance to do something.

This is a poor design choice. Frames should have synergy and work together, not fight against each other for a chance to enjoy the game.

Saryn is NOT fun. It's just high DPS garbage that entirely hogs games. Efficiency is NOT a gameplay aspect unless you're talking about getting through ridiculously boring missions like Defense missions where you have to kill everything off screen because it takes the enemies too damn long to actually stop hiding around the map behind objects and buildings etc. That's required due to poor path finding and cowardly grineer. You wouldn't need to be more efficient if the enemies stopped $&*^ing around so much or if there wasn't so many pillars between the enemy spawns and the defense objective.

Have you ever had anyone ever ask for someone with a high powered sniper rifle to come to a defense mission? Nope, because of poorly designed maps that require efficiency to get through the drudgery of it.

I get that part, but that doesn't directly translate that aspect of gameplay to KUVA fortress where killing stuff off map makes zero difference to the income of KUVA. It's a poor excuse and it would be nice for people to think about what they bring to certain missions... But more importantly: DE need to start making changes to their missions to allow every frame to have some importance or bring gunplay back to the forefront.

I don't see why a defense map can't have various spawn points, one on one side where snipers and guns are useful and on the other side of the map, somewhere that AoE frames are useful. When you have maps that are equally poorly designed on both sides of the map... It leads to nothing but drudgery and carries with leeches. That's not fun for anyone.

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26 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

I agree with this. I have spent many games standing around doing nothing while Saryn goes "Hiss" once or twice here and there while we all stand around doing nothing.

AoE frames are okay, but not when they don't have to do anything to earn what they are doing.

It's really not fair on other frames and gamers that have to wait around for a long time before they become of any relevance. Seems that Nekros gets told off for not having high enough range, where as Saryn doesn't get told off for having too much. There's no balance in this matter.

It's boring for one and efficiency in killing is a weak excuse. We don't need things dying way, WAY off the screen. That's really not enjoyable to me, I don't understand who that is fun for, but those people who enjoy this I believe are fresh gamers who haven't experienced what I believe to be good quality mechanics egotistic DPS hog players. This aspect of Saryn is anti-fun and game hogging.

There's no reason to be doing such a huge amount of damage with such high range when no one else gets a chance to even SEE most of the enemies that are dying. Enemies should die to spread damage, at least that would give other players some Synergy with Saryn to maximise her damage so we can become a part of it. But we're not, we're literally left out of any interaction with this, instead we are fighting her abilities for the chance to do something.

This is a poor design choice. Frames should have synergy and work together, not fight against each other for a chance to enjoy the game.

Saryn is NOT fun. It's just high DPS garbage that entirely hogs games. Efficiency is NOT a gameplay aspect unless you're talking about getting through ridiculously boring missions like Defense missions where you have to kill everything off screen because it takes the enemies too damn long to actually stop hiding around the map behind objects and buildings etc. That's required due to poor path finding and cowardly grineer. You wouldn't need to be more efficient if the enemies stopped $&*^ing around so much or if there wasn't so many pillars between the enemy spawns and the defense objective.

Have you ever had anyone ever ask for someone with a high powered sniper rifle to come to a defense mission? Nope, because of poorly designed maps that require efficiency to get through the drudgery of it.

I get that part, but that doesn't directly translate that aspect of gameplay to KUVA fortress where killing stuff off map makes zero difference to the income of KUVA. It's a poor excuse and it would be nice for people to think about what they bring to certain missions... But more importantly: DE need to start making changes to their missions to allow every frame to have some importance or bring gunplay back to the forefront.

I don't see why a defense map can't have various spawn points, one on one side where snipers and guns are useful and on the other side of the map, somewhere that AoE frames are useful. When you have maps that are equally poorly designed on both sides of the map... It leads to nothing but drudgery and carries with leeches. That's not fun for anyone.

Snipers are always useful. My rubico was viable the second it dropped, and has been every since.

Ive never seen a map that snipers aren't viable, nor do i have a problem playin with saryn's. I like to play my saryn, and when i do ive been lucky that noone complains. So when i play with a saryn, i don't complain. I also dont have a problem getting kills... I get creative, makes me play harder. Fun times all around.

Edited by (PS4)big_eviljak
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39 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Snipers are always useful. My rubico was viable the second it dropped, and has been every since.

Ive never seen a mal that snipers aren't viable, nor do i have a problem playin with saryn's. I like to play my saryn, and when i do ive been lucky that noone complains. So when i play with a saryn, i don't complain. I also dont have a problem getting kills... I get creative, makes me play harder. Fun times all around.

:facepalm: When did anyone EVER say sniper rifles aren't viable. My god, you really have no ability to digest what is written to you. Please stop fowling up everything I write with your nonsense. I not once said sniper rifles are not viable in general. Sniper rifles are broken as all hell and that's why I tend not to use them, it was a point of comparison. But you wouldn't get that because you throw your own meaning into my posts time and time again. When I explain to you, you run off failing wildly with my comments and blasting yours about with no correlation between the two.

There's a difference between a discussion and an argument. Everything you say to me is a direct argument, and not an argument against my post... Just some side tangent ramble on your own accord. 

Please, if you can't keep to the point of the posts, why are you even posting. Not once have you actually replied with a valid point or legible literacy. It's full of randomness and ambiguity.

Just 🤦‍♂️

Edited by ActionPoohole
just :facepalm:
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1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Snipers are always useful. My rubico was viable the second it dropped, and has been every since.

Ive never seen a map that snipers aren't viable, nor do i have a problem playin with saryn's. I like to play my saryn, and when i do ive been lucky that noone complains. So when i play with a saryn, i don't complain. I also dont have a problem getting kills... I get creative, makes me play harder. Fun times all around.

If you want to seemingly follow me around and flail your ribbon around like you're all that.... If you're gonna talk the talk, lets see you walk the walk... How about you demonstrate with a simple 5-10 minute video of you "getting kills" ... so we all have something to amuse us.

And you won't, because you can't... And you can't, because you won't. 

You constantly talk about all this stuff you do and etc, lets see you back up a single word with some evidence, because right now it's all just this rolling endlessness about you being so great and/or mediocre and/or just making a kill here and there and "keeping up".

Just utter nonsense.

Post a video, please... Because you're starting to get really annoying just popping up here and there with not a single ounce or evidence or proof in the matter.

Show us how you keep up with a sniper rifle on Hydron... Or even KUVA fortress with your thumb twiddlers. I could really do with some entertainment.

Give us a proper video too, something with you trying to keep up with a good Saryn, or with an AoE frame on Hydron... anything worth while... Not some more nonsense please. I'm really keen to see what you call "keeping up" and "making kills" ... You could make 2 kills and be making kills. Give us SOME sort of yardstick to measure your comments with.

I'm not buying this at all. I'm just tired of you dumping your nonsense comments all over my threads. It's beyond toxic at this point and It's starting to annoy me.

Edited by ActionPoohole
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Me personal don't play saryn seriously until after 40. Min. 

I like playing accordingly to the enemy lvls. I don't like playing boring smash four game. All my friends love my sarin I play more supportive. (Like superman I don't have to punch a hole in u because I can.) Lol but I say dis to say. I love her my whole frame life. And this update rework is dope. I hope the cheap don't ruin it.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)King-Greatness_2 said:

Me personal don't play saryn seriously until after 40. Min. 

I like playing accordingly to the enemy lvls. I don't like playing boring smash four game. All my friends love my sarin I play more supportive. (Like superman I don't have to punch a hole in u because I can.) Lol but I say dis to say. I love her my whole frame life. And this update rework is dope. I hope the cheap don't ruin it.

And if you do play seriously or even close to, everyone else in the game twiddles their thumbs because Saryn takes over the game at will. And that's not fair or fun for anyone else trying to enjoy it.

There's a reason why every single Saryn in nearly every single game has over 40-60% of the damage, and it's because the rework is busted. I play with plenty of Saryn players who claim it's ridiculous how broken she is and will EXPLOIT it until it's fixed.

Broken, broken, broken.

Edited by ActionPoohole
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