[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD

[Purity]

On 2018-06-13 at 3:13 AM, ActionPoohole said:

So somehow I've misread you because you are talking about being Saryn being super fun: (I guess you are perhaps putting yourself in others shoes and feeling their emotions for them again)

"I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. "

Your sentense was just strangely composed. It was very late for me and I wasn't awake enough to decipher unusual sentense construction. I did actually read what you wrote. Next time I'll attempt to make sure I'm on high alert to not get confused by your strange writing style and apply my best efforts to decipher what you write better. It's my bad, sorry about that.

So obviously I was wrong in this specific instance, I will admit this. Admitting when you make a mistake is something you could also give me the courtesy of. Virtually every other post I've made so far; you've purposely ignored my points and not replied to them. So it's me making an error in making sense of what you wrote, compared to your purposely ignoring me and my points? Yet you post this smart alec response: "Perhaps read next time....?" Come on, have a little more tact.

So, moving on...

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to which frame and or weapons you used to keep up in kills and how you are engaging in this "combat". Because if you're just keeping up with also using AoE map nuking abilities then that isn't really part of the discussion. Keeping up with map nukes by using map nukes is along the same lines of just having more than one Saryn.

So please answer:

• Which mission were you on?
• How long were you there?
• What level were the enemies?
• What weapons/abilities were you using to keep up?
• Have you tried this on KUVA survival?
• Have you tried playing as a non map nuking frame and keeping up with using weapons?
• If you keep up using weapons then what map did this happen on?
• Did you have to race off anywhere in order to make kills before the corrosive damage melted them into slush?
• Please note any other determining factors that allowed you to keep up with Saryn map nuke.

A little bit of information apart from:

"I agree. Saryn is super fun... Ive played with many since the update and i can match kills with most of my frames, provided i actually work for em. "

Then telling me I didn't read? There are still other points in my thread that you ignored; all due to a technicality.

I'd love to understand a little more about your perspective because that short sentense says practically nothing about your experience. Also; next time it would be nice if you could compose your one liners with a little more comprehension because that sentense to me was just garble about you thinking Saryn is superfun when other people play it while you keep up in kills. It's was a tad strange don't you think? I do.

Just to note: Matching kills has nothing to do with enjoying a game. Matching kills is just an EGO counter. (IMO)

 

- Ik this was not for me to answer but I just thought I'd answer some questions

I run saryn with 175-90 range, 151 duration, norm efficiency, survivability and around 170-200 strength.

Tested with ranged melee weapons, gunblade and throwing (throwing is my person pref so I mostly go with dual wielding). - Mainly hek and tenora.

At first It was problematic to play her. Now it's just meh to play and a 50/50. I mean, when it comes to kuva survival, defense, and such it's a hit and miss. I don't run the meta build so i rarely worry about keeping stacks up unless the content reaches 70+ (everyone wants to leave at 20 so it rarely happens but when it does spores is important). Idk I find that playing her is fun and at the same time so tedious just from her one. See I'm sure that mot can be crushed easily in solo. But it seems like now, it is so much easier to make mistakes in teamplay, which can completely #*!% up your stacks (nidus doesn't run into that problem because it's not on a friggin clock lol). IMO DE needs to fix that. Other than that floods are decent (all missions where since her 2 makes her a little more versatile because of her speed (rescue, and such), and her 1 actually lasts building stacks and allowing time for you to spread it to others. This probably seems really winded and choppy of a paragraph, but I think saryn is actually still fun in a lot of missions (as long as they are 30+ and any mode). Do I think 3.5 is better than 2.0? well tbh we didn't need 3.5, we just needed the inconsistency and bugs on her 1 to be fixed. But after playing her for quite a bit, she isn't really as badly done as I thought.

I think what the guy wanted to really say was that his definition of fun was to contribute to the team by doing what saryn does (well her main function), which is to just kill everything. My definition of fun around her (for any frame really), is just dual wielding and S#&$, keeping the 3 up, and hitting those high dmg numbers from procs and CO. But I get that matching kills can be egotistic, and that it isnt fun for the rest of the team. But when a team has a good composition (debuff, dps, healer, buffer) everything becomes fun xD. 

To De: I think that saryn at first was somewhat hazy but I'm pretty much a diehard saryn fan so I just said, "forget it, Imma adapt". At first I believed that builds would only work as the max range meta, but I can say that she is still pretty versatile (maybe even more so for people whole like speed running, team buffing, etc.). Her whole gameplay has changed completely from debuffer to high-level content dmg dealer/nuker/self buffer, which I dont know is great (because i still liked the debuffer gameplay). Overall (even with the comment about 'changing frames if you don't like the rework', which was pretty rude), the change that saryn got wasn't what she needed, but it's not like it completely screwed her from head to toe. She's still pretty fun to me for the reason the she has other utilities crammed into her, and that you still have to work hard at endgame (while saryn 2.0 was constant hard work and reliance on weapon dmg and procing, 3.5 now seems to project a trend in which you have to work hard to make sure you keep your ability up by any means possible to make sure you can strip and damage all enemies no matter how far you get, which again as mentioned above becomes really painful during pub matches). I would suggest a way to store dmg (which was mentioned many times by other players) either by on the clone or maybe on a dead corpse (probably not the greatest idea, but it at least gives you time to look for something to pass to without having to keep 1 eye on stacks and the other eye on not getting 1 shotted.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Heatie

[ActionPoohole]

Every single game, Saryn on 50% or more. Saryns levelling up frames, 40%, once levelled up 60%+

That's just the typical thing. What makes it worse is getting to a hallway and seeing enemies falling into slush every single time you're winding up a charge weapon. Feels like the entire team is just waiting for Saryns damage to fall off... Which doesn't seem to happen.

It's just a boring, game hogging frame that takes over everything and trivialise weapons etc...

This was NOT a nerf, it was a buff and the numbers clearly show it. Saryn didn't need a buff, she needed a rework, this was both a rework and a buff.

I'm tired of having weapons that seem useless when a Saryn is around, I quit games frequently. People say "efficiency" ... You can't really be more efficient in a KUVA farm, so that's a weak excuse. It's 1 minute to defend per harvester, and doing most of the damage while everyone stands around is nothing about efficiency, now anyone with Saryn will get most DPS as everything just dies and we stand around doing nothing.

And I see various times that when their damage falls off due to a bad build, they want to leave at that exact point. So we stand around while they take over the game and they run to the exit when their build finally sucks. And for a player with a good build, that doesn't happen.

Tired of this monotony. I run invite only, the moment I run public again, join a game? Saryn is there, almost 90% of the time, and it's getting old... and fast.

It reminds me of going to the index with Trinity exploding her own feet for credits while we all stood around collecting green gems? That's not gaming, that's just stupidity... And Saryn is following suit. PLEASE NERF or RE-REWORK this is not acceptable gameplay mechanics; having everyone stand around twilling thumbs till a Saryn wants to finally exit the map

Edited June 26, 2018 by ActionPoohole

[ActionPoohole]

On 2018-06-06 at 11:12 PM, Ceadeus said:

While in general, I do like a lot of the changes made for Saryn, I have to say that I feel like removing the spread on death by Spore was a bad choice.  Now that's not to say I don't understand why this was put in place, to block the set and forget mentality where Saryn just dominates entire maps by doing literally nothing, but rather I think Saryn needs to be somewhat of an exception to still fit her theme.

Saryn is a disease based Warframe, IE: she should be starting small and spreading exponentially till she's infected the entire area, which she does.  But the problem is that infection doesn't really maintain itself, it is directly influenced by Saryn.  To me, to have the spread entirely dependent on an outside force just feels more like a Nova prime that spreads when you detonate an enemy rather than a disease.  I would much rather see some smaller remnant of that disease constantly being spread on its own than to be reliant on me being there to spread it.

Personally, I would just like to see it so that if an enemy dies to a spore, then it still infects nearby enemies, but rather than giving them the full damage proc that enemies infected by spores you actually pop yourself get, they would start over on damage ramping at the smallest proc.  Then in a supplement to that, they should be able to adopt the higher damage proc if you then detonate a more effective set of spores once you are nearby those enemies.

What this kind of change would allow for is that continued spread that feels very much like a master of disease infecting everything in her wake without simply making her melt the entire map by doing nothing.  She'll be doing relatively little damage to the enemies on the fringe of her "Ground Zero" while still greatly helping the team thanks to status procs and the continued constant spread.  Then once her team finally reaches those fringe enemies, all she has to do is make sure she's been popping spores along the way to bring her virulence with her to maintain the damage output as well.

I agree with this. I have spent many games standing around doing nothing while Saryn goes "Hiss" once or twice here and there while we all stand around doing nothing.

AoE frames are okay, but not when they don't have to do anything to earn what they are doing.

It's really not fair on other frames and gamers that have to wait around for a long time before they become of any relevance. Seems that Nekros gets told off for not having high enough range, where as Saryn doesn't get told off for having too much. There's no balance in this matter.

It's boring for one and efficiency in killing is a weak excuse. We don't need things dying way, WAY off the screen. That's really not enjoyable to me, I don't understand who that is fun for, but those people who enjoy this I believe are fresh gamers who haven't experienced what I believe to be good quality mechanics egotistic DPS hog players. This aspect of Saryn is anti-fun and game hogging.

There's no reason to be doing such a huge amount of damage with such high range when no one else gets a chance to even SEE most of the enemies that are dying. Enemies should die to spread damage, at least that would give other players some Synergy with Saryn to maximise her damage so we can become a part of it. But we're not, we're literally left out of any interaction with this, instead we are fighting her abilities for the chance to do something.

This is a poor design choice. Frames should have synergy and work together, not fight against each other for a chance to enjoy the game.

Saryn is NOT fun. It's just high DPS garbage that entirely hogs games. Efficiency is NOT a gameplay aspect unless you're talking about getting through ridiculously boring missions like Defense missions where you have to kill everything off screen because it takes the enemies too damn long to actually stop hiding around the map behind objects and buildings etc. That's required due to poor path finding and cowardly grineer. You wouldn't need to be more efficient if the enemies stopped $&*^ing around so much or if there wasn't so many pillars between the enemy spawns and the defense objective.

Have you ever had anyone ever ask for someone with a high powered sniper rifle to come to a defense mission? Nope, because of poorly designed maps that require efficiency to get through the drudgery of it.

I get that part, but that doesn't directly translate that aspect of gameplay to KUVA fortress where killing stuff off map makes zero difference to the income of KUVA. It's a poor excuse and it would be nice for people to think about what they bring to certain missions... But more importantly: DE need to start making changes to their missions to allow every frame to have some importance or bring gunplay back to the forefront.

I don't see why a defense map can't have various spawn points, one on one side where snipers and guns are useful and on the other side of the map, somewhere that AoE frames are useful. When you have maps that are equally poorly designed on both sides of the map... It leads to nothing but drudgery and carries with leeches. That's not fun for anyone.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

26 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

I agree with this. I have spent many games standing around doing nothing while Saryn goes "Hiss" once or twice here and there while we all stand around doing nothing.

AoE frames are okay, but not when they don't have to do anything to earn what they are doing.

It's really not fair on other frames and gamers that have to wait around for a long time before they become of any relevance. Seems that Nekros gets told off for not having high enough range, where as Saryn doesn't get told off for having too much. There's no balance in this matter.

It's boring for one and efficiency in killing is a weak excuse. We don't need things dying way, WAY off the screen. That's really not enjoyable to me, I don't understand who that is fun for, but those people who enjoy this I believe are fresh gamers who haven't experienced what I believe to be good quality mechanics egotistic DPS hog players. This aspect of Saryn is anti-fun and game hogging.

There's no reason to be doing such a huge amount of damage with such high range when no one else gets a chance to even SEE most of the enemies that are dying. Enemies should die to spread damage, at least that would give other players some Synergy with Saryn to maximise her damage so we can become a part of it. But we're not, we're literally left out of any interaction with this, instead we are fighting her abilities for the chance to do something.

This is a poor design choice. Frames should have synergy and work together, not fight against each other for a chance to enjoy the game.

Saryn is NOT fun. It's just high DPS garbage that entirely hogs games. Efficiency is NOT a gameplay aspect unless you're talking about getting through ridiculously boring missions like Defense missions where you have to kill everything off screen because it takes the enemies too damn long to actually stop hiding around the map behind objects and buildings etc. That's required due to poor path finding and cowardly grineer. You wouldn't need to be more efficient if the enemies stopped $&*^ing around so much or if there wasn't so many pillars between the enemy spawns and the defense objective.

Have you ever had anyone ever ask for someone with a high powered sniper rifle to come to a defense mission? Nope, because of poorly designed maps that require efficiency to get through the drudgery of it.

I get that part, but that doesn't directly translate that aspect of gameplay to KUVA fortress where killing stuff off map makes zero difference to the income of KUVA. It's a poor excuse and it would be nice for people to think about what they bring to certain missions... But more importantly: DE need to start making changes to their missions to allow every frame to have some importance or bring gunplay back to the forefront.

I don't see why a defense map can't have various spawn points, one on one side where snipers and guns are useful and on the other side of the map, somewhere that AoE frames are useful. When you have maps that are equally poorly designed on both sides of the map... It leads to nothing but drudgery and carries with leeches. That's not fun for anyone.

Snipers are always useful. My rubico was viable the second it dropped, and has been every since.

Ive never seen a map that snipers aren't viable, nor do i have a problem playin with saryn's. I like to play my saryn, and when i do ive been lucky that noone complains. So when i play with a saryn, i don't complain. I also dont have a problem getting kills... I get creative, makes me play harder. Fun times all around.

Edited June 26, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[ActionPoohole]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Snipers are always useful. My rubico was viable the second it dropped, and has been every since.

Ive never seen a mal that snipers aren't viable, nor do i have a problem playin with saryn's. I like to play my saryn, and when i do ive been lucky that noone complains. So when i play with a saryn, i don't complain. I also dont have a problem getting kills... I get creative, makes me play harder. Fun times all around.

 When did anyone EVER say sniper rifles aren't viable. My god, you really have no ability to digest what is written to you. Please stop fowling up everything I write with your nonsense. I not once said sniper rifles are not viable in general. Sniper rifles are broken as all hell and that's why I tend not to use them, it was a point of comparison. But you wouldn't get that because you throw your own meaning into my posts time and time again. When I explain to you, you run off failing wildly with my comments and blasting yours about with no correlation between the two.

There's a difference between a discussion and an argument. Everything you say to me is a direct argument, and not an argument against my post... Just some side tangent ramble on your own accord. 

Please, if you can't keep to the point of the posts, why are you even posting. Not once have you actually replied with a valid point or legible literacy. It's full of randomness and ambiguity.

Just 🤦‍♂️

Edited June 26, 2018 by ActionPoohole
just :facepalm:

[ActionPoohole]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Snipers are always useful. My rubico was viable the second it dropped, and has been every since.

Ive never seen a map that snipers aren't viable, nor do i have a problem playin with saryn's. I like to play my saryn, and when i do ive been lucky that noone complains. So when i play with a saryn, i don't complain. I also dont have a problem getting kills... I get creative, makes me play harder. Fun times all around.

If you want to seemingly follow me around and flail your ribbon around like you're all that.... If you're gonna talk the talk, lets see you walk the walk... How about you demonstrate with a simple 5-10 minute video of you "getting kills" ... so we all have something to amuse us.

And you won't, because you can't... And you can't, because you won't. 

You constantly talk about all this stuff you do and etc, lets see you back up a single word with some evidence, because right now it's all just this rolling endlessness about you being so great and/or mediocre and/or just making a kill here and there and "keeping up".

Just utter nonsense.

Post a video, please... Because you're starting to get really annoying just popping up here and there with not a single ounce or evidence or proof in the matter.

Show us how you keep up with a sniper rifle on Hydron... Or even KUVA fortress with your thumb twiddlers. I could really do with some entertainment.

Give us a proper video too, something with you trying to keep up with a good Saryn, or with an AoE frame on Hydron... anything worth while... Not some more nonsense please. I'm really keen to see what you call "keeping up" and "making kills" ... You could make 2 kills and be making kills. Give us SOME sort of yardstick to measure your comments with.

I'm not buying this at all. I'm just tired of you dumping your nonsense comments all over my threads. It's beyond toxic at this point and It's starting to annoy me.

Edited June 26, 2018 by ActionPoohole

[(PSN)King-Greatness_2]

Me personal don't play saryn seriously until after 40. Min. 

I like playing accordingly to the enemy lvls. I don't like playing boring smash four game. All my friends love my sarin I play more supportive. (Like superman I don't have to punch a hole in u because I can.) Lol but I say dis to say. I love her my whole frame life. And this update rework is dope. I hope the cheap don't ruin it.

[ActionPoohole]

1 hour ago, (PS4)King-Greatness_2 said:

Me personal don't play saryn seriously until after 40. Min. 

I like playing accordingly to the enemy lvls. I don't like playing boring smash four game. All my friends love my sarin I play more supportive. (Like superman I don't have to punch a hole in u because I can.) Lol but I say dis to say. I love her my whole frame life. And this update rework is dope. I hope the cheap don't ruin it.

And if you do play seriously or even close to, everyone else in the game twiddles their thumbs because Saryn takes over the game at will. And that's not fair or fun for anyone else trying to enjoy it.

There's a reason why every single Saryn in nearly every single game has over 40-60% of the damage, and it's because the rework is busted. I play with plenty of Saryn players who claim it's ridiculous how broken she is and will EXPLOIT it until it's fixed.

Broken, broken, broken.

Edited June 26, 2018 by ActionPoohole