When we cross chat filter, just give us a warning before banning and a short "why".

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

2 minutes ago, rune_me said:

You are the reason we have such restrictive rules in chat. The more people try to break the rules and trick the bot, the more restrictive the bot has to be to cover all it's bases. If you are tired of the chat bot being extreme, just remember that it is behavior such as your little trick that is to blame.

Does this seems out of place?:

"Hey can any1 help me? I'm doing Chains of Harrow, and i'm doing the part where you kill the ghosts. I'm using [Nehza] and placing the [Kinetic Siphon Traps], but they don't dissapear. What am I supposed 2 do?"

Because I could easily see someone saying that because they don't understand that they are supposed to attack the ghosts to destroy them. Instead of getting help, they would be chatbanned, making them more likely to quit the game in frustration and disgust, despite doing nothing wrong.

This is what we want to prevent. A simple warning would allow this player to know what went wrong, and to be more careful in reformulating their response. Escalation of punishment is all we ask for, starting with a warning.

[tucker_d_dawg]

3 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to quote me on, b

hmm i wasn't - forum software inserted the wrong name..I had hightlight the text by Sikreci

Odd.

[Sunder]

1 minute ago, Tonks-Prime said:

What god-forsaken spack figured that 'nezha is a trap' is offensive?

One of our chat moderators actually

Ya know...completely disregarding the people who happily refer to themselves as such. But one person was offended who has a position of power so they get more say than we do.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, rune_me said:

What new player said that? Please introduce me to him or her, so we can discuss this. Until then, this is a purely hypothetical situation that no one needs to waste time or energy taking precautions against or even discussing.

As I said, it was a hypothetical. Never once did I insinuate it has actually happened, but it could, and they would be banned. If you want real world examples see the person banned for asking if anyone else was from Niger, someone on PS4 who misspelled good to gook because of the touchpad typing, and plenty of people getting banned for pairing trap with the wrong word for any number of reasons. Besides, isn't the filter all about taking precautions?

[Tonksie]

Just now, Sunder said:

One of our chat moderators actually

Ya know...completely disregarding the people who happily refer to themselves as such. But one person was offended who has a position of power so they get more say than we do.

That's why I have the issue. Especially as well, I myself would say that behind the screen in the real world, I am one such trap. So I guess my existance is transphobic. Ban me DE, I'm a transphobe by existing!!!

I am fully aware of the whole moderators and their rather rash tumblr blog statements - I specifically came here after seeing the video uploaded by Rahetalius

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, Tonks-Prime said:

I totally am too. But the fact that the REASON you are banned for doing [nezha][kinetic siphon trap] is because it sounds like 'nezha is a trap' to the bot. What god-forsaken spack figured that 'nezha is a trap' is offensive? I mean, first off, it's not necessarily untrue, and if you get offended by such, then you probably shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.

DE decided that. They have already stated so. It's their chat, so you have to play by their rules. And this is their rules. How offensive you or I think it is or isn't, is besides the point.

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by rune_me

[Tonksie]

Just now, rune_me said:

DE decided that. They have already stated so. It's there chat, so you have to play by their rules. And this is their rules. How offensive you or I think it is or isn't, is besides the point.

 

Nope, one of the Chat Moderators was the one that decided it and had it forced into the filter. And then made a tumblr post about how they knew it was working and were judging their success based off how many people they managed to anger.

[blink8888]

Just now, Tonks-Prime said:

Nope, one of the Chat Moderators was the one that decided it and had it forced into the filter. And then made a tumblr post about how they knew it was working and were judging their success based off how many people they managed to anger.

lemme help you provide a link as well for that
https://web.archive.org/web/20180520094037/http://friendzoningmisandrist.tumblr.com/post/171105578915/warframe-region-chat-update

[Tonksie]

Just now, blink8888 said:

lemme help you provide a link as well for that
https://web.archive.org/web/20180520094037/http://friendzoningmisandrist.tumblr.com/post/171105578915/warframe-region-chat-update

Cheers bud ^^

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Does this seems out of place?:

"Hey can any1 help me? I'm doing Chains of Harrow, and i'm doing the part where you kill the ghosts. I'm using [Nehza] and placing the [Kinetic Siphon Traps], but they don't dissapear. What am I supposed 2 do?"

Yes. That will never happen. Another made up hypothetical. 

4 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

Never once did I insinuate it has actually happened, but it could, and they would be banned. If you want real world examples see the person banned for asking if anyone else was from Niger

And as I said above, and as was explained in the thread, this is exactly because of people trying to circumvent the rules. It is stupid, but as long as people try to be clever and find ways to say the N-word that gets around the bot, then you have to take alternative spellings into account in the chat filter.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Tonks-Prime said:

Nope, one of the Chat Moderators was the one that decided it and had it forced into the filter. And then made a tumblr post about how they knew it was working and were judging their success based off how many people they managed to anger.

Don't be silly. Go read the previous thread, it was confirmed by staff and moderators that the moderators can not add words to the chat filter.

[Sunder]

1 minute ago, Tonks-Prime said:

I am fully aware of the whole moderators and their rather rash tumblr blog statements

I asked [DE]Drew about that and his response was it's not open for public discussion. That we're here to move forward and make our community stronger. .

So then I asked if someone who should action not be taken when someone in a higher position breaks a rule...wouldn't that weaken our community? Letting the public feel as though favourites are being played or some users are held to a different standard? That I can understand not wanting to discuss the matters publicly but a statement of some sort should at least go out, no? The fact that players have been banned for less and similar activity and the fact that this moderator is still not only in-game, but STILL A CHAT MOD is just insulting to the community as a whole.

[Tonksie]

Just now, rune_me said:

Don't be silly. Go read the previous thread, it was confirmed by staff and moderators that the moderators can not add words to the chat filter.

Read the tumblr link someone else linked in this thread and tell me what it says my friend.

[rune_me]

Just now, Tonks-Prime said:

Read the tumblr link someone else linked in this thread and tell me what it says my friend.

Doesn't change the fact that they can't. Whatever someone said on tumbler.

[artemisfortune]

@tucker_d_dawg @Sikreci I'd also like to point out that you're acting like I want people to dodge the filter. I'm advocating the terms that have SFW, non offensive meanings be removed from the filter, and instead throw up a red flag of sorts for a chat mod to take a peak at. I think that's a much better alternative than people being false positive'd.

Also, no one has even mentioned chargeback bans, which afaik still haven't been fixed. If you don't know, a chargeback ban is when someone who obtained plat from a third party seller and trades it away to someone who has no idea that this plat has been obtained against the ToS. When DE finds out they remove the plat from all accounts to who hold it, and this includes the person it got traded to. This can lead to negative balances which they have to wait for support to fix which can take quite awhile, or pay their way out of it. It's also possible for a user to purchase plat legitimately, trade it all way, and contact their CC company or bank and have them removed the charge. This removes the plat from all the people they traded too which again, creates a negative balance. If this has been fixed please let me know, but I haven't seen any confirmation that it has.

[OniDax]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

Don't be silly. Go read the previous thread, it was confirmed by staff and moderators that the moderators can not add words to the chat filter.

They can't add words to the filter, but they can influence DE staff to add words.

Either way, DE is aware of our concerns. Since this discussion between the community and DE only really started yesterday (as in, the big thread that was closed), they aren't ready to implement any changes. But they are aware of the specific issues that we have, even though people like you don't think they're issues. We just need to be patient now, and wait. Hopefully some changes will come.

[Sunder]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

Don't be silly. Go read the previous thread, it was confirmed by staff and moderators that the moderators can not add words to the chat filter.

This is correct. But they have more influence than the standard user. Some going as far to even brag about getting terms put on the list after discussing it with DE.

Completely within DE's rights of course, but still, influencing it based on their personal beliefs is just wrong. I'm aware if we don't like it we can get out but it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Like an insult to the community.

[artemisfortune]

5 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Yes. That will never happen. Another made up hypothetical. 

And as I said above, and as was explained in the thread, this is exactly because of people trying to circumvent the rules. It is stupid, but as long as people try to be clever and find ways to say the N-word that gets around the bot, then you have to take alternative spellings into account in the chat filter.

See my post above.

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

Doesn't change the fact that they can't. Whatever someone said on tumbler.

The "someone" in question is the mod themselves. So either they're lying, or they did have some play in it getting filtered. Either situation means they shouldn't be a mod.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Pent_

[Tonksie]

Just now, rune_me said:

Doesn't change the fact that they can't. Whatever someone said on tumbler.

The chat moderator's tumblr post stated they worked WITH DE to get *their* suggestion(Not DE's) forcefully implemented into the chat filter for the sake of preventing what they called 'transphobia' and what most normal people would call 'a statement' or a harmless 'joke'

[rune_me]

Just now, Sunder said:

This is correct. But they have more influence than the standard user. Some going as far to even brag about getting terms put on the list after discussing it with DE.

Completely within DE's rights of course, but still, influencing it based on their personal beliefs is just wrong. I'm aware if we don't like it we can get out but it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Like an insult to the community.

I don't know that I can blame them for trying to influence DE. That's fine. Using your status and platform to affect the world around you is okay in my book, even when I don't agree with them. Who wouldn't?

But I agree, bragging about it is ... questionable? Of course there may be information and data we don't know about, but as long as DE wants to keep it private we won't know.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, rune_me said:

I don't know that I can blame them for trying to influence DE. That's fine. Using your status and platform to affect the world around you is okay in my book, even when I don't agree with them. Who wouldn't?

But I agree, bragging about it is ... questionable? Of course there may be information and data we don't know about, but as long as DE wants to keep it private we won't know.

They publicly brag about it on their social media, going as far as to say they're happy that people are angry about it, and saying anyone who even so much as disagrees is toxic and transphobic. These are painful accusations to be made by someone who is supposed to be a leader of the community.

[Lord_Freezeflame]

Just now, rune_me said:

I don't know that I can blame them for trying to influence DE. That's fine. Using your status and platform to affect the world around you is okay in my book, even when I don't agree with them. Who wouldn't?

When you have a position of power in a community, the intention of the role is to do what's best for the community and advocate for them in order to solve their problems. Using that power to lord your own ideals over everyone else and even mock them for it is entirely inconsiderate and unprofessional.

[rune_me]

4 minutes ago, Tonks-Prime said:

The chat moderator's tumblr post stated they worked WITH DE to get *their* suggestion(Not DE's) forcefully implemented into the chat filter for the sake of preventing what they called 'transphobia' and what most normal people would call 'a statement' or a harmless 'joke'

Forcefully is BS. If only DE can add words to the chat filter, then it obviously happened with their consent. Which means they either 1) don't think it's a harmless joke, or 2) don't want to see a bad joke flooding or spamming the chat.

And as already said, what "most people" think is irrelevant in this situation, since "most people" don't host and run the chat. Only the rules of those who do matters.

[notlamprey]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

And as I said above, and as was explained in the thread, this is exactly because of people trying to circumvent the rules. It is stupid, but as long as people try to be clever and find ways to say the N-word that gets around the bot, then you have to take alternative spellings into account in the chat filter.

For better or worse, an arms race may already have begun between moderators and users.

It boils down to something fundamentally creative about the function of awareness: now that people have some recreational incentive to engage in "risky play," you will not be able to stop them from doing it.

What happens when alternative spellings aren't getting the job done? We've already seen the example of geographical references, and how long before it's further abstracted into domains that would prove entirely impractical tom oderate?

I underlined the chosen portion because it's one example of how even an otherwise inoffensive proper name can be used as a substitute for a "slur." If the name of a single African nation is taken to be a substitute for one specific "slur," how long before people see the potential for the name of any nation to be used in similar fashion? It doesn't have to be restricted to geography either. I've seen people reference specific food items in such a manner.

What about cockney slang?

Bringing it back to the point, I don't think we can realistically hope to put a lid on this with the current system as implemented by DE and its representatives. I think that continued extensions of the current opaque, "zero tolerance" system will eventually serve to alienate an unacceptable number of people. Hopefully you can be understanding of people who are expressing this concern.

[Tonksie]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

Forcefully is BS. If only DE can add words to the chat filter, then it obviously happened with their consent. Which means they either 1) don't think it's a harmless joke, or 2) don't want to see a bad joke flooding or spamming the chat.

And as already said, what "most people" think is irrelevant in this situation, since "most people" don't host and run the chat. Only the rules of those who do matters.

So basically, Warframe's chat being ruled in an authoritarian manner is perfectly okay with you. I guess I'll start bowing and kneeling for our chat moderator overlords who were given their places with absolutely no public consensus to get them there.

Orrr...

We could logically say, well, if it's an incredibly TINY minority of the playerbase that wants that phrase banned, but the vast Majority, keyword being Majority want it available to use, then surely we should go with the majority. Does DE want 2 players of 100 or do they want 98 players of 100?