Don't forget to buff weapon switch time during the melee rework.

[(PSN)Croewe]

I just seem to "love" making these threads but we need a weapon switch speed buff. It is currently faster to reload most guns than switch to a secondary or melee. The quick melee is abused rather than switching in alot of cases due to it just taking forever in the fast paced game of warframe.

 

Please just triple the switch speed of weapons and remove the horrible band-aid mods that shouldn't have a reason to exist.

[Walkampf]

I think the switch speed mods are perfectly fine.

They offer custominsation options aside from damage and status.

And the introduction of peculiar mods are evidence that the better players have definitly mod-slots to spare.

 

The Aura is certainly used very rarely. So a 200% increase to switchspeed should not be to much to ask for.

Another fine addition whould be an exilus-mod. Something along the lines of 100% switchspeed. (This whould put is just below the current Aura

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

• You'll be able to dual wield any one-handed weapon with any secondary weapon - as shown many moons ago on a Devstream!

 

All other weapons theoretically deserve the time delay.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

I agree with the OP. Every other game I've played that's of similar pacing to Warframe (DOOM, Titanfall, any Arena FPS, potentially Vermintide depending on your view, etc.) has a faster weapon switch time that's usually far less than a second (if not instant for some games). Even slower paced games like the (in)famous CoD, Halo, and Battlefield franchises have faster weapon switching, and I'd be willing to bet that even more tactical "realistic" games like Siege and Insurgency also have faster swap times (hence the age old advice of "swapping weapons is quicker than reloading"). So why is it that a standard soldier that's undergone general military training, is able to swap weapons faster than a genociding space ninja of unparalleled power? It's an uneccesary limitation that doesn't serve the game at all, and I'd even argue that it conflicts with the game's fast paced nature.

[Ragingwasabi]

27 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

I think the switch speed mods are perfectly fine.

They offer custominsation options aside from damage and status.

And the introduction of peculiar mods are evidence that the better players have definitly mod-slots to spare.

 

The Aura is certainly used very rarely. So a 200% increase to switchspeed should not be to much to ask for.

Another fine addition whould be an exilus-mod. Something along the lines of 100% switchspeed. (This whould put is just below the current Aura

sorry what. auras are always used. and CP is pretty important at higher levels unless ur using some meta weapons as well.

weapon switch speed is such a basic stat that is something we should always have. Its such a basic part of combat why are we having to mod for it? To always choose a switch speed aura mod over every other aura mod does not give us options anyway.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[Ragingwasabi]

4 minutes ago, GeoffFromAccounting said:

I agree with the OP. Every other game I've played that's of similar pacing to Warframe (DOOM, Titanfall, any Arena FPS, potentially Vermintide depending on your view, etc.) has a faster weapon switch time that's usually far less than a second (if not instant for some games). Even slower paced games like the (in)famous CoD, Halo, and Battlefield franchises have faster weapon switching, and I'd be willing to bet that even more tactical "realistic" games like Siege and Insurgency also have faster swap times (hence the age old advice of "swapping weapons is quicker than reloading"). So why is it that a standard soldier that's undergone general military training, is able to swap weapons faster than a genociding space ninja of unparalleled power? It's an uneccesary limitation that doesn't serve the game at all, and I'd even argue that it conflicts with the game's fast paced nature.

exactly!

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Ragingwasabi:

sorry what. auras are always used. and CP is pretty much required at higher levels unless ur using some meta weapons as well.

Or you could use one of the by now numerous Armor stripping Abilities/Augments. The options are there.

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Ragingwasabi:

weapon switch speed is such a basic stat that is something we should always have. 

Damage is also a 'basic stat'. So why should we have damage mods?

[GeoffFromAccounting]

1 minute ago, Walkampf said:

Damage is also a 'basic stat'. So why should we have damage mods?

I'd argue that we shouldn't have damage mods as well (and have argued that before) and that they too should be ingrained into the weapon, but that discussion belongs in a mod rebalancing topic. Instead, let's keep this topic about how weapon switching is a basic utility/QoL that almost literally any other game does better than Warframe

[Ragingwasabi]

11 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Or you could use one of the by now numerous Armor stripping Abilities/Augments. The options are there.
 

Damage is also a 'basic stat'. So why should we have damage mods?

one of those options is CP. how else do I strip armour as a volt? not everyone uses OP equipment. some people use things they enjoy. OPTIONS.


because enemies increase in level. guns already kill on earth. u put mods to kill enemies from harder planets. switch speed is S#&$ no matter what until u put a mod on. and by then ur putting the same mod on every frame and its a blatant waste of space because it should be innate stat.
same reason they copied vacuum over to other sentinels. vacuum was too important so everyone chose carrier. it was like 80% of the community choosing carrier. absolutely ridiculous. this is slightly different because noone ever chooses switch speed. they realise reloading their primary takes just as long and its free. we need to buff switch speed to match those of a robotic space ninja and encourage people to play like one.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb GeoffFromAccounting:

 almost literally any other game does better than Warframe

Well, not every game has to be the same.

And if other system are 'better' is arguable.

This topic is comparable to the same point made each and every time a new ability-augment is introduced:

'This should not be an augment, this should be part of the base ability.'

And the answer is pretty much the same: DE does not agree with the statemaent.

People on both topics, switch-speed and augments, are semi-right. All this stuff could be made baseline, however DE chose not to do so, which means they are fine with the way of the implementation.

 

And let's face it, as you already said,

vor 9 Minuten schrieb GeoffFromAccounting:

(...)weapon switching is a basic utility/QoL (...)

It's a QoL, nothing with major gameplay impact.

[Ragingwasabi]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Well, not every game has to be the same.

And if other system are 'better' is arguable.

This topic is comparable to the same point made each and every time a new ability-augment is introduced:

'This should not be an augment, this should be part of the base ability.'

And the answer is pretty much the same: DE does not agree with the statemaent.

People on both topics, switch-speed and augments, are semi-right. All this stuff could be made baseline, however DE chose not to do so, which means they are fine with the way of the implementation.

 

And let's face it, as you already said,

It's a QoL, nothing with major gameplay impact.

try tell that to an FPS player. "weapon switch is not important"

[Walkampf]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Ragingwasabi:

one of those options is CP. how else do I strip armour as a volt?

You are aware that there are more than 1 person per squad, yes?

Volt doesn't have to strip armor, because if your squad is amde out of 4 Volts, with 12 weapons which don't strip armor, then your teams setup is the problem.

When you choose to ignore options presented to you, then it is your own fault, not the games.

[Walkampf]

Gerade eben schrieb Ragingwasabi:

try tell that to an FPS player. "weapon switch is not important"

Well, Warframe isn't an FPS, soooo....

And it's not as if Warframe has a 10 second time to switch. It's around 1.5 to 2 seconds.

It's not actually all that bad as it is made out to be.

People also ignore that Warframe features a lot more ways to crow controll enemies than your typical shooter does.

And people ignore that you are capable of moving a lot faster in every direction, even vertically, than you are in other shooters.

Both are ways to create 2 or more second windows to savely switch weapons.

[Ragingwasabi]

17 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

You are aware that there are more than 1 person per squad, yes?

Volt doesn't have to strip armor, because if your squad is amde out of 4 Volts, with 12 weapons which don't strip armor, then your teams setup is the problem.

When you choose to ignore options presented to you, then it is your own fault, not the games.

 i cant control what pug squad brings. and CP isnt the only commonly used aura.

 

13 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Well, Warframe isn't an FPS, soooo....

And it's not as if Warframe has a 10 second time to switch. It's around 1.5 to 2 seconds.

It's not actually all that bad as it is made out to be.

People also ignore that Warframe features a lot more ways to crow controll enemies than your typical shooter does.

And people ignore that you are capable of moving a lot faster in every direction, even vertically, than you are in other shooters.

Both are ways to create 2 or more second windows to savely switch weapons.

FPS games give u a primary, secondary and melee. warframe gives a primary, secondary and melee. see the parallels?

now yes warframe also gives u abilities and godly movements but that doesnt mean we have to be gimped on weapon switch speed. why do we jump like space ninjas but swap weapons like space grannies? if anything we should swap even faster than normal shooters. it should be an option we can take in mid combat. bullet jump, cast an ability or switch weapons?
also we cant always do any of them depending on situation, like being low on energy, having no melee equipped (perhaps from sortie condition), tight spaces, etc etc. its just a good option to have in combat.

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[Walkampf]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Ragingwasabi:

 i cant control what pug squad brings. 

Well, if you try to take on high level content in public groups, then this is just like hitting a random-loadout button and then complaining that the loadout you get is not suited for a specific task.

You ignore the option to set up an actually working team. It is not the game to blame if you deliberatly ignore the option the games gives you.

 

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Ragingwasabi:

FPS games give u a primary, secondary and melee. warframe gives a primary, secondary and melee. see the parallels?

And World of Warcraft features swords, guns and character abilities.... so what exacly are the parallels?

Just because one game features slighty similar concepts as another game this doesn't force any of the two games to be just like the other.

This is the very reason why we have Warframe, DOOM and CS:GO and countless others and not just one single game, called 'Shooter'.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Walkampf

[Ragingwasabi]

11 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Well, if you try to take on high level content in public groups, then this is just like hitting a random-loadout button and then complaining that the loadout you get is not suited for a specific task.

You ignore the option to set up an actually working team. It is not the game to blame if you deliberatly ignore the option the games gives you.

 

And World of Warcraft features swords, guns and character abilities.... so what exacly are the parallels?

Just because one game features slighty similar concepts as another game this doesn't force any of the two games to be just like the other.

This is the very reason why we have Warframe, DOOM and CS:GO and countless others and not just one single game, called 'Shooter'.

i mean idk how WOW plays, but i imagine fast weapon switch would help those poor characters switching like space grannies...

Edited May 24, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[GeoffFromAccounting]

One would think that if literally every other fast paced shooter ever has fast weapon switching, that it's that way for a reason. It may be a small thing to you, but it's one of the tiny little mechanics that help reinforce the theme of the game, and if that one specific thing is slower than everything else then it can really be felt quite heavily. Imagine if every Warframe ability had the cast time of 2 seconds. Imagine how slow and clunky that would feel for abilities like Shock and Fireball. Those two abilities have one thing in common with weapon switching in games: they're designed to be split second decisions; they're reactionary/instinctive, they're not actions you heavily think about beforehand.
Switching weapon shouldn't be a huge tactical decision in a game as fast as Warframe, it should be "oh Hek, I ran out of ammo and need to quickly kill these few guys, better switch to my other gun" instead of the "oh Hek, better reload because that's about as fast (if not faster) as weapon switching most of the time" that one normally has. Then you also have to consider that different enemies are weaker to different types of weapons than others (Heavies are weak to hard hitters, hordes are weak to explosives, Nullies are weak to automatic fire, etc.) but because weapon switching is so slow, you're better off taking one weapon that can be pushed to do all the roles it can (which I'm willing to bet is why Snipers are so unpopular, because they struggle to be pushed into any other role than heavy unit killing).

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

8 hours ago, GeoffFromAccounting said:

I agree with the OP. Every other game I've played that's of similar pacing to Warframe (DOOM, Titanfall, any Arena FPS, potentially Vermintide depending on your view, etc.) has a faster weapon switch time that's usually far less than a second (if not instant for some games). Even slower paced games like the (in)famous CoD, Halo, and Battlefield franchises have faster weapon switching, and I'd be willing to bet that even more tactical "realistic" games like Siege and Insurgency also have faster swap times (hence the age old advice of "swapping weapons is quicker than reloading"). So why is it that a standard soldier that's undergone general military training, is able to swap weapons faster than a genociding space ninja of unparalleled power? It's an uneccesary limitation that doesn't serve the game at all, and I'd even argue that it conflicts with the game's fast paced nature.

There is one issue with your reasoning here. All those games mentioned are FPSs where they don't bother with good weapon switching animations because it is first person view. The person doesn't see the model, so it can be sloppy looking. Warframe is a third person shooter which makes a big difference because you see everything on the character, so you need the animations to not be instantaneous otherwise it would look wrong and jarring unlike a FPS where you never see it.

The speed of the game play is also irrelevant because they are two separate beasts as well with the FPS and TPS difference. If you find another TPS that has fast switching, than you will have a valid complaint to work on, but so far with just FPS mentioned, you don't.

[(PSN)Croewe]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

The speed of the game play is also irrelevant because they are two separate beasts as well with the FPS and TPS difference. If you find another TPS that has fast switching, than you will have a valid complaint to work on, but so far with just FPS mentioned, you don't.

Uncharted has faster switching than warframe.

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

Uncharted has faster switching than warframe.

I actually forgot about that one, but I can consider that a valid complaint then because it is in the TPS genre like ME MP, Dead Space, GoW, Defiance, BF series with a few others I am missing I am sure.

[(PSN)Croewe]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

I actually forgot about that one, but I can consider that a valid complaint then because it is in the TPS genre like ME MP, Dead Space, GoW, Defiance, BF series with a few others I am missing I am sure.

I mean even if others were slower that doesn't mean warframe has to be. Warframe is it's own thing and the Devs have shown that faster weapon animations can work with the swapping mods that shouldn't exist in a game like this.

The only game I can think of that you may have missed is fortnite (at least the PvE side I dunno how fast the PvP is). I don't play alot of shooters.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

21 hours ago, Walkampf said:

I think the switch speed mods are perfectly fine.

They offer custominsation options aside from damage and status.

 

....wasting damage output to be able to switch to a different weapon is flat out one of the stupidest designs of this game.

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (XB1)GearsMatrix301:

....wasting damage output to be able to switch to a different weapon is flat out one of the stupidest designs of this game.

 

vor 23 Stunden schrieb Walkampf:

And the introduction of peculiar mods are evidence that the better players have definitly mod-slots to spare.

You just have to get a bit better, than you have easily a slot to spare.

[TotallyLagging]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

There is one issue with your reasoning here. All those games mentioned are FPSs where they don't bother with good weapon switching animations because it is first person view. The person doesn't see the model, so it can be sloppy looking. Warframe is a third person shooter which makes a big difference because you see everything on the character, so you need the animations to not be instantaneous otherwise it would look wrong and jarring unlike a FPS where you never see it.

The speed of the game play is also irrelevant because they are two separate beasts as well with the FPS and TPS difference. If you find another TPS that has fast switching, than you will have a valid complaint to work on, but so far with just FPS mentioned, you don't.

We already break our arms putting certain weapons on our back before it magically vanishes to nothing

Just do it the Borderlands way and make it disintegrate or something

Also love how a weapon switching thread quickly turns into gitgud posting, this forums never cease to amaze me.

Edited May 25, 2018 by TotallyLagging

[Vance.Stubbs]

Ah, old good forum "git gut" gibberish while apologizing probably one of the most out-of-the-place mechanics in the game. How I missed thee!

Edited May 25, 2018 by Vance.Stubbs