Banshee becoming an outcast in Hydron?

[TioMegaManX]

And now recently RQ Banshee for Onslaught... no big deal? the player even said "is always 2:30 mins anyway", yes, but not all tilesets are cramped and you still have to go and hunt for all those ragdolling enemies, same deal as other horde levels, Saryn? even with overextended enemies are too far apart to effectively spread infections, nuke Nova? good luck chaining explosions with that enemy spread, and so on and so forth, also, kill efficiency won't stay up for long with RQ spamming either.

[Bl4ckM0onk3y]

I see Sonar Banshee i see a player helping other players on hydron, i see a quake banshee i leave. It takes the 5 waves last as long as 7-8 waves, and even after 5 waves if they still decide to play it takes even longer since they are not killing mobs,they are only prolonging the wave while knocking down mobs and pushing them away. That's why i don't like that playstyle, but it's a DE fault not reworking her ult that way it does not promote afk playstyle. 

[(PSN)EpICFreeDoMZz]

I think that banshee ruins the game in a similar way limbo or ember used to. It just takes away the fun for everyone but the user. There are only a few times RQ is fair  game IMO. For rivens where you'll only be there for 5 waves, or ere its something serious where it might be difficult or a challenge like the sortie

[FlyingDice]

On 2018-06-06 at 6:54 AM, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

surprised Hydron is still relevant. Sanctuary onslaught offers great Affinity, a variety of enemies and locales, gives easy relics and doesn't take anywhere near as long as a full rotation of Hydron. it's where I'd go to power-level nowadays (and get Focus).

The problem is that a lot of the SO maps are distributed enough to preclude effective nuking and have spawns scattered in weird spots that don't give you good paths for manual clearing. That, combined with the constant single spawns and no downtime (as opposed to large batch spawns with downtime between waves) means that a lot of nuke builds are either going to require energy pizza spam or will be inefficient because of their mechanics (i.e. with Volt 4 you can time your recasts perfectly on a Def map like Hydron with all spawns in large groups close to equal distances from the point, but on SO you're going to either need to recast constantly to catch new spawns or cast less frequently in order to pick up enemies that didn't die in the last cast--either way it's way less efficient).

On 2018-06-06 at 6:02 PM, Acos said:

Put me in the camp that would like to level up weapons by actually using them. I find that part fun. We pick EXP hot spots because we want to play with other people, not because we want to watch one frame nuke the map to death in the most efficient way possible. If all I cared about was leveling up everything in the most efficient way possible, I wouldn't be playing this game at all. 

So if you're seeing people leave when you notice a nuke frame in the mix, there's a decent chance its' someone like me who just doesn't like playing with cheese builds. 

That's kinda the thing, though. There are a lot of good maps to level actively on, and most provide better rewards. Hydron is popular because the spawns are all within range of the pod for most nuking frames, not because it offers any special benefit--in fact, it's the opposite if you're actively leveling, because the layout doesn't lend itself especially well to running circuits or posting up and shooting, thanks to the short sightlines and many dead end spawns and tight corners. If you want to hit/shoot things for affinity, there are plenty of better tilesets, even just on Defense.

[WhiteCr0w]

On 2018-06-06 at 6:54 AM, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

surprised Hydron is still relevant. Sanctuary onslaught offers great Affinity, a variety of enemies and locales, gives easy relics and doesn't take anywhere near as long as a full rotation of Hydron. it's where I'd go to power-level nowadays (and get Focus).

This exactly. Part of the reason DE even designed and implemented this mode was an attempt to cater to the playstyle nodes like Hydron fostered. It's clear as day, and is a great example of reactive development.

Edited June 10, 2018 by WhiteCr0w
Sexy italics.

[Acos]

6 hours ago, FlyingDice said:

That's kinda the thing, though. There are a lot of good maps to level actively on, and most provide better rewards. Hydron is popular because the spawns are all within range of the pod for most nuking frames, not because it offers any special benefit--in fact, it's the opposite if you're actively leveling, because the layout doesn't lend itself especially well to running circuits or posting up and shooting, thanks to the short sightlines and many dead end spawns and tight corners. If you want to hit/shoot things for affinity, there are plenty of better tilesets, even just on Defense.

My comment is not actually about Hydron specifically, but nuke frames in general. 

[Lanadra]

On 2018-06-06 at 3:01 AM, MirageKnight said:

Sadly that applies to a few Frame's, (Maim Equinox, Saryn) but Banshee's a shining example of something that DE was supposed to fix but really didn't. She's more interesting, but she's still capable of making Hydron and other small maps boring for everyone else.

And this just annoys me to be honest, I enjoyed RQ Banshee a S#&$ ton more as she was before the most recent changes to her augment, and it really didn't fix anything at all. So now I'm left feeling that the only real change.. is that I don't enjoy playing it anymore. Which has off course meant that I no longer play it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blind to the problems of RQ Banshee in regards to others, but a fix that made a change I really don't like and fixed nothing in the end.. is just plain annoying.

[FlyingDice]

19 hours ago, Acos said:

My comment is not actually about Hydron specifically, but nuke frames in general. 

Okay, so you're in the "people can play the game however they want, as long as it's the me-approved Right Way" boat. Allow me to kindly direct your attention to the "Solo" setting on matchmaking, and to the "Abort Mission" button in the menu.

Yeah, it can suck when you want to run a mission a time or ten just flying around shooting and slashing stuff, only to run into someone who wanted to clear with their abilities instead. Just like it sucks when you want to stay in place farming Survival efficiently and someone decides to drag half the spawns around the map slowly killing them one or two at a time. Just like it sucks when you're trying to test out weapons and someone turns everything you attack into chunky salsa with blades or explosives.  Just like it sucks when you run Spy in a group because you're a masochist or forgot to swap to Solo and some mouth-breather triggers an alarm and doesn't know the tile well enough to speedrun it after they do so. Just like it sucks to play a rift mission and have someone bug out the spawns by completing the objective before everyone has enough reactant. So on and so forth.

Know what reasonable people do? We suck it up. If it's something that's an honest mistake due to lack of knowledge/not paying attention/whatever, maybe offer a bit of polite advice. If you're feeling lucky, maybe ask the guy spin-clearing or nuking everything to slow down a bit. If you're going into a high-pop node that's specifically used for efficient farming of something or other and then getting upset because people are trying to farm it efficiently, that's on you.

There's stuff I run solo for, and stuff I don't try out in popular farming missions. If I want to test out new weapons, I like to go into low-level defense/interception missions and help new players run them while leveling my stuff--it's a good way to try them out while also improving the community (as opposed to insta-clearing low level missions leaving newbies nothing to do; Interception is especially good for this because you can just lock down two points to guarantee the win, allowing the other guys to have fun killing stuff).

[Acos]

3 hours ago, FlyingDice said:

Okay, so you're in the "people can play the game however they want, as long as it's the me-approved Right Way" boat. Allow me to kindly direct your attention to the "Solo" setting on matchmaking, and to the "Abort Mission" button in the menu.

If, at some point, you'd like to try reading my original post instead of charging in with your self righteous authority I might bother typing out a full response for you. You are inferring a lot of things from my post that aren't relevant to my opinions or this discussion, and you aren't exactly talking to me in a way that encourages me to want to communicate with you. 

[jfhsanseiIII]

On 2018-06-08 at 11:09 AM, W4cky said:

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but that person nuking the map is playing the game too.  Much of a looter shooter is about killing enemies and looting as fast as possible.  By your statement alone, that's inconsistent logic what you say here.  How is cheesing the game not playing it?  Don't hate the player, hate the game.  Let's just say in a very basic way, that this game supports more than one playstyle.

Hitting a single button once and wiping out a map is not playing.  That’s like hitting play on Netflix and telling people you’re directing a movie.  In fact it’s consistent with DE’s mindset regarding the game. I don’t mind being outclassed or outgunned. If you get a combo of items that lets you dominate the map, that’s great.  Getting on your banshee, hitting 4, and sitting back is not cheesing it’s doing nothing.  

 

PS. 2006 called and wants it’s meme back.  Lol. “Don’t hate the player...”hahaha...indeed.  

On 2018-06-08 at 11:12 AM, (XB1)mickeyjuiceman said:

But it's not HIS playstyle, therefore it's the WRONG playstyle.

Again it’s not a ‘playstyle’ As zero input does not constitute actual play. Your ad hominem almost doesn’t merit a response other than to be pointed out as an ad hominem.  It’s not about MY play style it’s about it not being to actually play.  

On 2018-06-08 at 3:07 PM, Wulfwyn said:

Heh, I sometimes wonder what percentage of people that are using their same argument are only hating on nuke frames because their epeen can't handle their deflated kill ratios in comparison. Not saying that all do, just curious, because I've known people like that.

I wonder if DE could allow players to set certain criteria when searching for random games, such as, 'don't group me with a team if it has [mod/weapon/frame] equipped.' Allow that, and people that hate resonating quake builds could keep away from them. Then maybe we can stop complaining about what frames other people are using.

It has nothing to do with ‘epeen,’ as you so elegantly put it, it is about group play and being able to play. If someone legitimately does better than me then great.  Who cares.  If someone’s only action is to hit a single button with no direct interaction with anything that is no fun for anyone. It has nothing to do with ego and more to do with actual ‘fun.’

[Starcanum]

There's no teamwork in this game outside some fringe missions and farm squads, so if you want to have fun, you can easily go solo. Hydron is XP farm, it's grindy and supposed to be efficient.

If you want to have your version of fun, you can simply persevere 10 minutes of efficient hydron and then go play the game with your lvl 30 stuff. No one takes your guys' fun, you just run into the missions that aren't meant to be fun and then complain.

It's as if an MMO player went into an instance with randoms and then complained about their meta builds and not being able to play the game the way he wants (for example, killing every mob one by one with a level 1 weapon, or derailing far away from the main course to complete some quest that no one cares about) cuz he gets kicked for it.

If you insist on trying to have fun in hydron pubs, which seems very counter-intuitive, you can use recruiting, since you're the one with specific demands for your group.

As to your "this is not a playstyle", it's plain wrong. Just as your use of "ad hominem". The usual implication of the "ad hominem" argument is that it's fallacious since it doesn't add anything to proving or disproving a point. His ad hominem wasn't fallacious, since he was saying that people keep trying to justify their playstyle and demean the others' ones just because they can't understand the fun in it and only care about how it affects them. Since the whole discussion is about how the people view those playstyles, the "ad hominem" argument can easily be used to make a valid logical point. This is a playstyle. Some people play this game as a shooter with leveling and their main focus is to shoot, while some play it as a looter with shooter elements and focus on building up their collection in the most efficient way possible.

The main problem is that when the guy who wants to shoot his guns has his fun reduced by the efficiency-oriented players, he can still freely play all the non-meta missions, play solo or recruit a specific squad. But when the guy who wants to do the efficient farming with his favourite setup has his fun reduced by the shooter guys complaining leading to the nerfs, they have no way of playing a pre-nerfed setup solo, or recruit for the pre-nerfed version. It's gone for good.

[(XBOX)mickeyjuiceman]

4 hours ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

Again it’s not a ‘playstyle’ As zero input does not constitute actual play. Your ad hominem almost doesn’t merit a response other than to be pointed out as an ad hominem.  It’s not about MY play style it’s about it not being to actually play.  

It's quite humorous how effectively you miss the point, which very clearly still stands despite (or more probably, because of) the self-righteous response.

[Wulfwyn]

On 2018-06-11 at 10:39 PM, jfhsanseiIII said:

Hitting a single button once and wiping out a map is not playing.  That’s like hitting play on Netflix and telling people you’re directing a movie.  In fact it’s consistent with DE’s mindset regarding the game. I don’t mind being outclassed or outgunned. If you get a combo of items that lets you dominate the map, that’s great.  Getting on your banshee, hitting 4, and sitting back is not cheesing it’s doing nothing.  

 

PS. 2006 called and wants it’s meme back.  Lol. “Don’t hate the player...”hahaha...indeed.  

Again it’s not a ‘playstyle’ As zero input does not constitute actual play. Your ad hominem almost doesn’t merit a response other than to be pointed out as an ad hominem.  It’s not about MY play style it’s about it not being to actually play.  

It has nothing to do with ‘epeen,’ as you so elegantly put it, it is about group play and being able to play. If someone legitimately does better than me then great.  Who cares.  If someone’s only action is to hit a single button with no direct interaction with anything that is no fun for anyone. It has nothing to do with ego and more to do with actual ‘fun.’

Lol, I find your response hilarious. Good job reading into things and then making a statement that is most likely false.

First of all, to clarify, I never said all people that made that argument were on an 'epeen' trip. I never even mentioned, nor assumed that most do. Your response seems to imply that not a single person is like that, which, first of all, seems unlikely, and definitely can't be proven as true (do you speak for everyone?). If you meant it from an individual standpoint, then you should say that. In which case, I'm sorry, I wasn't pointing fingers at you.