Wukong: The forgotten Warframe

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

34 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

He can literally turn invincible...

This makes him one of the strongest Warframes.

And while, yes, Cloud Walker limits your options, you are still literally invincible.

If DE want's to change anything about Wukong, they have to basically remove Defy from his kit.

Defy has to be reset every 5th roll over unless ur refilling his health. Invulnerability yes... Invincibility? No

[DeMonkey]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

primed reach ~ all three gladiator mods

Just want to comment on these, Primed Reach serves absolutely no purpose on the staff beyond making it start longer. It will still cap at 200% which even with Narrow Minded can be reached in 30 hits. Not worth.

All three Gladiator mods on Wukong is also... not excellent. Finesse specifically. If you're going to die then you should have Defy up. Defy will proc instead of the mod, so Gladiator Finesse on Wukong is useful only for the 15% crit chance on combo effect, and there's far better mods that can take that slot.

I mean, you can get 5 of the Gladiator mod set in a build just fine, you don't need to be wasting a slot on the 6th one imo.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

on Cloud walker.

there is two things i think would be interesting with it.

A: The ability now constantly stuns enemies in its effect, using melee near a enemy allows you to instantly end the ability and preform a finisher (QOL change)

B: the ability to hold down the Aim/Block Button to have the stun effect turn off, the cloud shrink to 10% of its normal size and have the flight speed increase to 10x (with some added visual trails)

to balance, the energy drain while it is active is gone when not mobile, and is reduced to 1ps while moving normally and 2ps while "sprint flying"

Visually, there is a 1 second peroid where the cloud shrinks and the speed increases when pressing the button.

 

this change allows cloud walker to be more effect in its current uses.. Enter cloud walker and fly to a enemy in sprint mode, then release to expand the cloud and open the enemy to finisher which you can initiate from the cloud.

 

Melee finishers with the Iron staff are as lethal as Excal finishing after using Radial Flash. Giving Wukong a unique Mobility option that also acts to open enemies to finishers is what Cloud Walker is best used for atm. Closing the distance to a tough enemy, then instantly killing them in a single strike.

 

Visual Referances... Think The Death Eaters from harry potter...a large mist condensing to a sharp smoky streak. we could even have a augment that lets us do the Classic "standing on the cloud" where Wukong effectively enters 3d movement while being able to still attack (at the loss of the stun and invulnerability)

 

 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

on Cloud walker.

there is two things i think would be interesting with it.

A: The ability now constantly stuns enemies in its effect, using melee near a enemy allows you to instantly end the ability and preform a finisher (QOL change)

B: the ability to hold down the Aim/Block Button to have the stun effect turn off, the cloud shrink to 10% of its normal size and have the flight speed increase to 10x (with some added visual trails)

to balance, the energy drain while it is active is gone when not mobile, and is reduced to 1ps while moving normally and 2ps while "sprint flying"

Visually, there is a 1 second peroid where the cloud shrinks and the speed increases when pressing the button.

I'd... maybe live with this... Maybe.

Casting time on it would need to be shorter though, because as it is it's far too long imo.

Plus, finishers are still... not really great imo. Certainly not as a main ability feature on melee frames. I mean, the melee focus just does them so much better for absolutely no cost.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

that or the stuff in the Limbo Peek-a-boo thread.something like in this video from there

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

i could totally see if Wukong could go in and out of his Cloud form fast enough to do something like this...

 

 

anyways the idea is making Cloud walker as a fast tactical flanking ability. Imagine if Cloud Walker was this fast... or if you could freely make attacks while its active to briefly appear then vanish right after...

Edited July 30, 2018 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Iron staff has primal rage augment... Couple that with sacrificial pressure/steel, drifting contact, primed reach, primed feverstrike, voltaic strike, berzerker and mod wukong with all three gladiator mods... Allowing iron staff to gain crit bonus after combo counter reaches at least 1.... Iron staff is a beastly melee with 250 base dmg.

Chromatic blade can reach 100% Status which makes it useful with Condition Overload. Condition Overload can multiply his damage the more procs he put on a enemy. If he blind the enemy, that enemy would die even faster.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

20 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

Chromatic blade can reach 100% Status which makes it useful with Condition Overload. Condition Overload can multiply his damage the more procs he put on a enemy. If he blind the enemy, that enemy would die even faster.

Condition overload on Chromatic blade has extremely limited use unless you do Corrosive Blast where it will give a maximum of 180% additional Damage.. half your mod slots will be devoted to this as a result and with the first two slots likely being for the sacrificial mods you only have room for 2 optional mods...

Likely you will have berserk in there too, to take full advantage of the setup... all this leaves you with room for one mod.. which i personally stick the last of the 90% elemental mods in with my build for massive overall damage... so... yeah if you want to make use of condition overload you are going to be very set in how you build with umbra... normal Excal has some benefit with lacking the Umbra Polarities, and since you dont need Crit mods due to how the Radial ability works... ultimately the only part that is multiplying anything is Flash itself... Condition Overload is about what a decent riven would give on Chromatic blade.. its actually quite weak compared to normal ISP weapons or even Normal Exaulted Blade and is not necessary..

its a strong build to be sure. i build with Healing Return as well for up to 33Hp per enemy hit by waves without affecting energy drain at all. tho unless you are directly striking the enemy or making use of Blind its still not as outright powerful as Valkyrs Claws, which can also let enemies take stealth damage multipliers with Paralyze.

Both are still stronger than what you will probably do with iron Staff, if only because the base damage type and how the stance and general usability is..

 

but i would rather have Iron Staff be slightly weaker in favor of the weapon being highly balanced. Give it good range and improve the number of strikes on the combo and you have a simply outstanding all around weapon. where Hysteria is severely limited by range and Exaulted blade is limited by total inability to make use of the Combo Counter..

 

i mean it is a staff, a pole of symmetric dimensions... i would really rather see Wukongs Exaulted as a balance.

Edited July 30, 2018 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[DeMonkey]

6 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Condition overload on Chromatic blade has extremely limited use unless you do Corrosive Blast where it will give a maximum of 180% additional Damage

Last I checked Condition Overload bonuses work multiplicatively.

1 Proc = (Total damage)*(1+60%)

2 Procs = ((Total damage)*(1+60%)*1+60%)

3 Procs = (((Total damage)*(1+60%)*(1+60%)*1+60%)

You get the idea. It's a lot more than 180% additional damage at the end, 406% if my math is correct, so 5x damage.

Edited July 30, 2018 by DeMonkey
Tired

[GPrime96]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Last I checked Condition Overload bonuses work manipulatively.

1 Proc = (Total damage)*(1+60%)

2 Procs = ((Total damage)*(1+60%)*1+60%)

3 Procs = (((Total damage)*(1+60%)*(1+60%)*1+60%)

You get the idea. It's a lot more than 180% additional damage at the end, 310% if my math is correct, so 4x damage.

This dude knows. When you look at the Wiki, it can show you a chart on how much your damage would be Multiply with every status effect being proc’d. It works in a similar equation as Demonkey explained.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

*checks the wiki*

Geez, no wonder CO is so heavily Meta... well still the point that its not as good on Chromatic as it is on weapons that can proc IPS as well...

 

.... so my 1000% Rift surged Dezetra prime is getting a total buff of 68.7x when i have primed with mara detron... no wonder it can kill so fast.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Just want to comment on these, Primed Reach serves absolutely no purpose on the staff beyond making it start longer. It will still cap at 200% which even with Narrow Minded can be reached in 30 hits. Not worth.

All three Gladiator mods on Wukong is also... not excellent. Finesse specifically. If you're going to die then you should have Defy up. Defy will proc instead of the mod, so Gladiator Finesse on Wukong is useful only for the 15% crit chance on combo effect, and there's far better mods that can take that slot.

I mean, you can get 5 of the Gladiator mod set in a build just fine, you don't need to be wasting a slot on the 6th one imo.

Gladiator set function doesn't work directly modded onto the staff. U would know that if you have tried it. U can only get the 45% from the mods being equipped to the frame, so one less mod DOES make a difference.

I like primed reach, and i like starting with the weapon at a high reach.

I don't use defy all the time... Wukong is tanky with or without it.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, VPrime96 said:

Chromatic blade can reach 100% Status which makes it useful with Condition Overload. Condition Overload can multiply his damage the more procs he put on a enemy. If he blind the enemy, that enemy would die even faster.

exaLted blade is a killer with gladiator set as well. No chromatic.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Gladiator set function doesn't work directly modded onto the staff. U would know that if you have tried it. U can only get the 45% from the mods being equipped to the frame, so one less mod DOES make a difference.

I like primed reach, and i like starting with the weapon at a high reach.

I don't use defy all the time... Wukong is tanky with or without it.

Gladiator mods equipped on a normal melee weapon will contribute to the bonus that takes effect on exalted weapon use, tho not when equipped on the exalted weapon itself.

you can easily have 3 gladiator set items on your melee boosting your exalted, and of course 2 or 3 on your frame.

 

i am quite sure of this one, extensive testing and endless red crits with Iron Staff which is less reliable without the weapon mods equipped on a "stat stick"

from the wiki:

• While officially Set Mod bonuses do not affect Exalted Weapons, the effect of Gladiator Mods still apply, as long as they aren’t equipped on Iron Staff itself and the Melee Combo Counter rank is above 1x.

this of course could change in the future.

 

Prime Reach only increases the Range of the Iron staff by 1m roughly... totaling 3m on average until you make up the remaining 40% for the max buff.

Edited July 30, 2018 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Gladiator set function doesn't work directly modded onto the staff. U would know that if you have tried it. U can only get the 45% from the mods being equipped to the frame, so one less mod DOES make a difference.

I like primed reach, and i like starting with the weapon at a high reach.

I don't use defy all the time... Wukong is tanky with or without it.

Delightful. You seem awfully antagonistic.

Gladiator set bonus works if the mods are on the melee weapon instead of the Unique weapon. You'd know that if you either tried it or briefly searched the forums, or perhaps simply not argued with someone who clearly knows better. 

You may like Primed Reach, but if you're suggesting an effective build what you "like" isn't pertinent. Primed Reach is not an effective mod on a weapon that gains reach naturally. 

Unless you weren't intending on providing an effective build. *Shrug*.

And yes, Wukong is tanky with or without Defy. Really that's just even more reason to not need Gladiator Finesse. Cheers. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Gladiator mods equipped on a normal melee weapon will contribute to the bonus that takes effect on exalted weapon use, tho not when equipped on the exalted weapon itself.

you can easily have 3 gladiator set items on your melee boosting your exalted, and of course 2 or 3 on your frame.

 

i am quite sure of this one, extensive testing and endless red crits with Iron Staff which is less reliable without the weapon mods equipped on a "stat stick"

from the wiki:

• While officially Set Mod bonuses do not affect Exalted Weapons, the effect of Gladiator Mods still apply, as long as they aren’t equipped on Iron Staff itself and the Melee Combo Counter rank is above 1x.

this of course could change in the future.

 

Prime Reach only increases the Range of the Iron staff by 1m roughly... totaling 3m on average until you make up the remaining 40% for the max buff.

Mods equipped on ur normal melee do not effect exalted weapons.

I use bloodrush on my regular melee and red crit everywhere with my iron staff. So ya... No. Your mistaken.

Edited July 30, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Delightful. You seem awfully antagonistic.

Gladiator set bonus works if the mods are on the melee weapon instead of the Unique weapon. You'd know that if you either tried it or briefly searched the forums, or perhaps simply not argued with someone who clearly knows better. 

You may like Primed Reach, but if you're suggesting an effective build what you "like" isn't pertinent. Primed Reach is not an effective mod on a weapon that gains reach naturally. 

Unless you weren't intending on providing an effective build. *Shrug*.

And yes, Wukong is tanky with or without Defy. Really that's just even more reason to not need Gladiator Finesse. Cheers. 

Gladiator mods on ur normal melee dont effect exalted. They used to, not now, though gladiator rush never did.

Edited July 30, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

no, not directly.. but that is not how the gladiator set works..

the bonus is like a passive added by the presence of the mods... each mod increases the passive.. its a bit like Excals sword passive, but applied to all melee weapons weapons... the mods on the frame increase it, and the mods on the normal melee weapon increase it. Mods on Exalted do not. it doesn't matter if its equipped on the exalted or not, the bonus will still increase and the benefit will be transferred to the exalted weapon. it happens for the same reason the mods on the frame itself affect the exalted weapon to begin with.

 

this is still live on console and PC. No update has removed this yet. YET. IT IS possible that exalted will be totally excluded from this benefit at a later point in the game.

however for now it remains in effect.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Gladiator mods equipped on a normal melee weapon will contribute to the bonus that takes effect on exalted weapon use, tho not when equipped on the exalted weapon itself.

you can easily have 3 gladiator set items on your melee boosting your exalted, and of course 2 or 3 on your frame.

 

i am quite sure of this one, extensive testing and endless red crits with Iron Staff which is less reliable without the weapon mods equipped on a "stat stick"

from the wiki:

• While officially Set Mod bonuses do not affect Exalted Weapons, the effect of Gladiator Mods still apply, as long as they aren’t equipped on Iron Staff itself and the Melee Combo Counter rank is above 1x.

this of course could change in the future.

 

Prime Reach only increases the Range of the Iron staff by 1m roughly... totaling 3m on average until you make up the remaining 40% for the max buff.

While officially Set Mod bonuses do not affect Exalted Weapons, the effect of Gladiator Mods still apply, as long as they aren’t equipped on Iron Staff itself and the Melee Combo Counter rank is above 1x. 

Your mistaken.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

no, not directly.. but that is not how the gladiator set works..

the bonus is like a passive added by the presence of the mods... each mod increases the passive.. its a bit like Excals sword passive, but applied to all melee weapons weapons... the mods on the frame increase it, and the mods on the normal melee weapon increase it. Mods on Exalted do not. it doesn't matter if its equipped on the exalted or not, the bonus will still increase and the benefit will be transferred to the exalted weapon. it happens for the same reason the mods on the frame itself affect the exalted weapon to begin with.

 

this is still live on console and PC. No update has removed this yet. YET. IT IS possible that exalted will be totally excluded from this benefit at a later point in the game.

however for now it remains in effect.

While officially Set Mod bonuses do not affect Exalted Weapons, the effect of Gladiator Mods still apply, as long as they aren’t equipped on Iron Staff itself and the Melee Combo Counter rank is above 1x.

Exalted weapons arent effected by ur modding on ur normal melee.

[Lancelot185]

I just use the immortal build with lenz so I don't have to worry about killing myself.

[DeMonkey]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Gladiator mods on ur normal melee dont effect exalted. They used to, not now, though gladiator rush never did.

I'm exceedingly grumpy at having to get out of bed to prove once again that they do to someone who can't be bothered to test for themselves.

Spoiler

Red crit at 3x combo. Staff has 65% base crit at this point.

If, as you claim, only the 2 mods on my frame are working then at 3x combo I'm getting 90% additional crit chance. It should be ridiculously obvious without spelling it out that 90% more crit chance on a weapon with 65% crit does not exceed 200%. No, it's 123.5% chance. Barely orange critting territory.

If they, as I claim, work whilst on my melee weapon as well then I've got 5 Gladiator mods, and thus 225% more crit chance. 65*(1+225%) = OMG IT EQUALS 211.25% BUT THAT'S RED CRITTING NUMBERS OMG THAT MEANS THAT THEY DO WORK OMG I NEVER WOULD HAVE GUESSED.

The wiki explains it pretty clearly, we've explained it pretty clearly and you've stubbornly refused to listen. There you go, you have your proof, it works. Please stop.

Edit: My melee build, comprised solely of mods that benefit my Iron Staff.

Spoiler

Apologies if the images are weird, using steam since Imgur is down for the moment.

Edited July 30, 2018 by DeMonkey

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm exceedingly grumpy at having to get out of bed to prove once again that they do to someone who can't be bothered to test for themselves.

  Hide contents

Red crit at 3x combo. Staff has 65% base crit at this point.

If, as you claim, only the 2 mods on my frame are working then at 3x combo I'm getting 90% additional crit chance. It should be ridiculously obvious without spelling it out that 90% additional crit chance on a weapon with 65% crit does not exceed 200%. No, it's 123.5% chance. Barely orange critting territory.

If they, as I claim, work whilst on my melee weapon as well then I've got 5 Gladiator mods, and thus 225% additional crit chance. 65*(1+225%) = OMG IT EQUALS 211.25% BUT THAT'S RED CRITTING NUMBERS OMG THAT MEANS THAT THEY DO WORK OMG I NEVER WOULD HAVE GUESSED.

The wiki explains it pretty clearly, we've explained it pretty clearly and you've stubbornly refused to listen. There you go, you have your proof, it works. Please stop.

Edit: My melee build, comprised solely of mods that benefit my Iron Staff.

  Hide contents

Apologies if the images are weird, using steam since Imgur is down for the moment.

https://i.imgur.com/zyFzhTI.png

 

 

You've proven nothing. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

https://i.imgur.com/zyFzhTI.png

Yes and? What does that have to do with what you quoted? That's about the staffs range, not Gladiator mod interaction.

Go test it for yourself, see if you hit enemies reliably further with Primed Reach on and if such a huge difference is worth a mod slot.

Spoiler alert:

Spoiler

It isn't.

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by DeMonkey

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes and? What does that have to do with what you quoted? That's about the staffs range, not Gladiator mod interaction.

Go test it for yourself, see if you hit enemies reliably further with Primed Reach on and if such a huge difference is worth a mod slot.

Spoiler alert:

  Hide contents

It isn't.

 

Click link, scroll down

https://imgur.com/a/IdlwAvr

Edited July 30, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Click link, scroll down

Clicks link, scrolls past the "range interaction" image. 

Next image is about a woman's confession regarding adultery.... hmmm...

Are you flirting with me? I'm touched, but no thanks.

It's clear you have nothing, so I'm heading back to bed for the remaining 2 hours I have before work.