"ancient Healer *resists* Your Molecular Prime"

[notionphil]

I was reducing entire squads of Grineer to clouds of purple quarks yesterday evening, and got to thinking...

 

In most games where characters can dispose of entire squadrons of enemies with a snap of their finger, there is some sort of mechanic in place to...well, make sure this doesn't work 100% of the time. Like resistance, reflects, fizzles etc.

 

Fizzles suck, obviously and have no place in WF. But maybe some enemies should be power resistant? Like 1 from each faction? Make each a re-skin of a current model to keep it simple. Red or something visible.

 

TLDR: Add power resistant mobs so that there are SOME situations where pressing 4 (or 3) isn't always the best option

 

*AOE here refers to any widespread AOE, ult or not, such as Chaos, M Prime, World on Fire, Snow Globe, Miasma, Bastille.

 

Corpus:

Prism Ospreys (Red Shield Ospreys) nullify AOE powers for any chained unit. Being hit by AOE's increases their shield chain radius. Take em out first and then use your ult. This would not affect single target or small area powers (shock etc).

 

Infested:

Ancient Defenders (Red Ancient Healers) nullify AOE powers for any units in their heal radius IF they are standing up. The AOE triggers a standard heal that does not affect the healer himself. (otherwise he'd be invincible inside a Bastille etc).

 

Grineer:

Grineer Siege Gunners (Red Grineer Heavy Gunners) don't block AOE for other units, but are overcharged by them IF they are standing up. They are boosted to 2x max hp/shields, and they go full $*%*storm on you; (+100% damage, ability to shoot through snowglobe). Overcharge can only affect them once.

 

EDIT

 

- cool side effect...when Heavy/Resistent troops, scattered around the battlefield, become high priority targets, frames which are stealth, direct incapacitators or high single target damage - become important assassins...Ash, loki, nyx, mag (mind control). Finally something awesome for those NON ult smash frames to do!

 

- Thanks to TheHeraldXII for suggesting these should be diff mob types. They would be re-named re-skins with brighter color so they are visible threats. They would also spawn a bit less frequently. We don't want to make ults 100% useless, just add strategic situations to create more critical roles to play - and give other frames options to show their stuff!

Edited August 28, 2013 by notionphil

[X3Evanescence]

Argh.... I am spamming the upvote button! It doesn't let me give me more upvotes!

[notionphil]

Oh and...Overcharged Grineer heavy can shoot through snow globe :)

 

That is how he makes up for not blocking AOE for his team. Grineer are clones, they don't care abt saving lives :P

[Gamblerselite]

I like the idea it balances out what everyone gripes about oh this is OP that is OP it makes people have that "Fear" factor again. Also adds a sence of tactics required to win. But instead of the Healer it should be the Disruptor just to go with the whole motif of the Infested other than that this is a really good idea.

[RavenOfTheFlock]

I was reducing entire squads of Grineer to clouds of purple quarks yesterday evening, and got to thinking...

 

In most games where characters can dispose of entire squadrons of enemies with a snap of their finger, there is some sort of mechanic in place to...well, make sure this doesn't work 100% of the time. Like resistance, reflects, fizzles etc.

 

Fizzles suck, obviously and have no place in WF. But maybe some enemies should be power resistant? Like 1 from each faction?

 

TLDR: Add power resistant mobs so that there are SOME situations where pressing 4 (or 3) isn't always the best option

 

*AOE here refers to any widespread AOE, ult or not, such as Chaos, M Prime, World on Fire, Snow Globe, Miasma, Bastille.

 

Corpus:

Shield ospreys nullify AOE powers for any chained unit. Being hit by AOE's increases their shield chain radius. Take em out first and then use your ult. This would not affect single target or small area powers (shock etc).

 

Infested:

Ancient Healers nullify AOE powers for any units in their heal radius IF they are standing up. The AOE triggers a standard heal that does not affect the healer himself. (otherwise he'd be invincible inside a Bastille etc).

 

Grineer:

Grineer Heavies don't block AOE for other units, but are overcharged by them IF they are standing up. They are boosted to 2x max hp/shields, and they go full $*%*storm on you; (+100% damage, ability to shoot through snowglobe). Overcharge can only affect them once.

Love this Idea. :D

[KatanaWielder]

This is actually a very good idea.

 

+1 :D

[X3Evanescence]

This is exactly what I am waiting for. This helps to add in more variety and some challenge into the game. I am tired of killing bullet sponges all the time...

[EinRyu]

Completely agree, Tbh I'm good with anything that doesn't make me have to permenently stay confined in Snowglobes in Defense missions that aren't infested. Ruins the fun for me. More so then a Nuke ult tbh. The games meant to have you move around not stay in a globe for 40 minutes straight.

[neKroMancer]

Made the same suggestion before. Prepare your flame retardant mod, OP.

[notionphil]

Completely agree, Tbh I'm good with anything that doesn't make me have to permenently stay confined in Snowglobes in Defense missions that aren't infested. Ruins the fun for me. More so then a Nuke ult tbh. The games meant to have you move around not stay in a globe for 40 minutes straight.

 

Now when when Lotus says "There's a heavy unit approaching"...You Better Listen!

 

 

Made the same suggestion before. Prepare your flame retardant mod, OP.

 

I'm fireproof :P

[crrider13]

I disagree. I usually play a nova and on harder levels (or higher waves in defence) Mprime already doesn't kill most big guys. If you're playing something like Xini and at wave 30 or higher the ancients won't die from a Mprime. And in some instances the little guys will survive too. I think if you're finding it too overpowered then you're not playing high enough levels.

 

EDIT: just wanted to throw out that the concept IS interesting. But it would have to be pretty rare and not scale. otherwise on harder levels you prime everyone or use avalanche or world on fire only to find that everyone is resisting

Edited August 26, 2013 by crrider13

[notionphil]

I disagree. I usually play a nova and on harder levels (or higher waves in defence) Mprime already doesn't kill most big guys. If you're playing something like Xini and at wave 30 or higher the ancients won't die from a Mprime. And in some instances the little guys will survive too. I think if you're finding it too overpowered then you're not playing high enough levels.

 

EDIT: just wanted to throw out that the concept IS interesting. But it would have to be pretty rare and not scale. otherwise on harder levels you prime everyone or use avalanche or world on fire only to find that everyone is resisting

 

You want a challenge, why not welcome it at wave 1?

 

I don't think MP is over powered...I think enemies are underpowered :)

 

"You're not playing high enough levels" is not an excuse. Late wave defense levels are not a part of the game's standard flow. We shouldn't have to grind through 20 waves+ JUST to find a challenge. IF we can even find a clan/group who wants to even do that.

 

Wave 30 on a high level defense is what you're doing right now to find a challenge BECAUSE our characters are too powerful for the regular game itself. And yep I have Nova (et al), formad.

 

Not saying "everything" in last few waves dies in one cast...but my only "challenge" was running out of globe to pick up orbs so I could recast MP. Not ninja, not sexy. If the actual enemies required some strategy to kill - they wouldn't need to have 50k HP and 80% armor.

Edited August 26, 2013 by notionphil

[OblivionNecroninja]

Power resistant mobs? Eeeeh...

CC resistant mobs? Yeah, there should be a rare cc-proof infested type at the very least.

[crrider13]

hang on a minute.I'm not saying its not challenging. The scenario I'm describing requires a decent team of people. You need at the least a vauban to throw up bastille over and over. if he's not there then just getting to wave 30 is considerably harder. I personally like that the teamwork aspect allows for a much more efective fighting force. The group I usually play with is me (nova) a frost a vauban and a rhino. vauban keeps up bastille. I take care of most little guys and frost and rhino take on most big guys.

 

It's not overpowered. we all just have specific jobs and we do them well.

 

By myself i couldnt do anything close to that.

[CY13ERPUNK]

i dont want certain mobs to be immune to ults, but still i like the idea of certain mobs having a % chance to resist

so +.5 =]

and of course DE needs to tweak all the frames to make their ults not the endallbeall button (and similar things like frost/nyx being only useful for globe/chaos)

[notionphil]

hang on a minute.I'm not saying its not challenging. The scenario I'm describing requires a decent team of people. You need at the least a vauban to throw up bastille over and over. if he's not there then just getting to wave 30 is considerably harder. I personally like that the teamwork aspect allows for a much more efective fighting force. The group I usually play with is me (nova) a frost a vauban and a rhino. vauban keeps up bastille. I take care of most little guys and frost and rhino take on most big guys.

 

It's not overpowered. we all just have specific jobs and we do them well.

 

By myself i couldnt do anything close to that.

 

You are correct. That teamwork is what makes this game awesome!

 

And on high level def, its great. But not all game levels are High Level Defense! You might not understand that only a small % of players will EVER see wave 30 on high level def. The game needs gradual challenge across all levels.

 

Right now, every 'challenge' in WF has the same best solution. You equip AP weapons, take a vaub, frost and nova (and one free slot, pref Rhino) and each person does their role. What if some challenges had OTHER best solutions? That maybe, other frames or powers might be the best way to solve?

 

What if a Shield Osprey walks his crew into your Snowglobe?! And there's an OVERCHARGED heavy setting his sights on the pod!?!

 

MP won't help. Bastille won't help? They will just make it worse!! AARGH what do we do (besides shoot them)??!?

 

Maybe MAG could pull them back out?

Maybe NYX can mind control them which will break their shield?

Maybe ASH can take them out with a well placed shruiken?

Maybe LOKI can invis and take them out quickly?

Maybe BANSHEE can sonic boom them out ?

 

 

Basically, as the original post says, lets create SOME situations where the press-to-win buttons don't automatically win, no matter how many times you press them.

[notionphil]

i dont want certain mobs to be immune to ults, but still i like the idea of certain mobs having a % chance to resist

so +.5 =]

and of course DE needs to tweak all the frames to make their ults not the endallbeall button (and similar things like frost/nyx being only useful for globe/chaos)

 

thanks. Oops "tha..."

 

(50% of entire thanks :P...kidding)

 

Thanks for your idea.

 

My thought on this is that if mobs have a % chance....that doesnt increase strategy. You now just need to cast MP/Miasma/Whatever Nuke 2x instead of 1x. Or cast 1x and then shoot whatever is left.

 

The suggestion here is to actual create new situations where MP/globe/bastille are NOT even a part of the answer. Where the answer might be switch teleport. Or tesla.

 

Anything different.

[crrider13]

You are correct. That teamwork is what makes this game awesome!

 

And on high level def, its great. But not all game levels are High Level Defense! You might not understand that only a small % of players will EVER see wave 30 on high level def. The game needs gradual challenge across all levels.

 

Right now, every 'challenge' in WF has the same best solution. You equip AP weapons, take a vaub, frost and nova (and one free slot, pref Rhino) and each person does their role. What if some challenges had OTHER best solutions? That maybe, other frames or powers might be the best way to solve?

 

What if a Shield Osprey walks his crew into your Snowglobe?! And there's an OVERCHARGED heavy setting his sights on the pod!?!

 

MP won't help. Bastille won't help? They will just make it worse!! AARGH what do we do (besides shoot them)??!?

 

Maybe MAG could pull them back out?

Maybe NYX can mind control them which will break their shield?

Maybe ASH can take them out with a well placed shruiken?

Maybe LOKI can invis and take them out quickly?

Maybe BANSHEE can sonic boom them out ?

 

 

Basically, as the original post says, lets create SOME situations where the press-to-win buttons don't automatically win, no matter how many times you press them.

 

I see your point. And I agree I would like to see other situations where complementary teams that can be as effective.

[Hayden11121]

This'd be nice.

 

Then, we can go more in depth with classes that are single targets too!

 

Switch Teleport can be used to move that heavy gunner out of the AoE while a Nova blasts M Prime, or Freeze can be used on a Healer to melee it before using Avalanche, oh and this would really improve Nyx's Mind Control ability.

 

+1, maybe an "Endgame" mechanic, but it'd be nice to have!

[WARGAMES]

this set of ideas is nice, make the game more interesting and allows NO WE CAN'T DO THAT YET KILL THAT ONE functionality.  might even make those mag pull moments nasty as all hell to gather the annoying ones you need dead first.

[alocrius]

This is of course a good idea that would with little effort greatly improve gameplay.

[ThePresident777]

This would be good in nightmare mode, not regular mode.

Edited August 27, 2013 by ThePresident777

[Destro6677]

Why not in regular mode at higher levels?

 

Nightmare mode is just nerfing the players stats, and normal gameplay is currently just 'charge in and spam 4 like a horde of orks! Waaugh!'

 

This is finally a reason to get players to scream 'Don't ult that one, are you mindless??'

[FoxyKabam]

I really hope DE sees this

[notlamprey]

I don't know if DE has already put this idea on the table and poked it a little, but I hope they're willing to entertain it.