ThePresident777 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Courtesy of Warframe Builder, Everybody's Favorite Boomsticks: Name, Damage Per Round, Damage Per Second, NotesOpticor 52802.70, 12000.61, Primary, RifleOgris Charged 27614.60, 15062.51, Primary, LauncherDread 26373.33, 14651.85, Primary, BowTorid 24428.30, 16285.53, Primary, LauncherParis Prime Charged 23380.46 13753.21, Primary, SniperAngstrum 20739.21, 18099.67 Secondary, PistolVectis 18506.07, 21837.16, Primary, SniperVulkar 16323.66, 13991.71, Primary, SniperSnipetron Vandal 14859.16, 14859.16, Primary, SniperPenta 13889.00, 9259.33, Primary, LauncherSybaris 13225.15, 14694.61, Primary, RiflePhage 11579.70, 11028.29, Primary, ShotgunSynoid Gammacor 10735.58, 31652.82, Secondary, ContinousHek 10516.5, 10468.91, Primary, ShotgunQuanta 10281.13, 10003.26, Primary, Continous [EDIT: Added the rest of the shotguns for curiosity.] Dragoon Charged 8573.12, 7596.44, Primary, Shotgun Tigris 6699.00, 4785.00, Primary, Shotgun Strun 5560.17, 6177.97, Primary, Shotgun Strun Wraith 5502.75, 9366.38, Primary, Shotgun Dragoon 5486.80, 8932.00, Primary, Shotgun Sobek 4210.80, 7018.00, Primary, Shotgun Boar Prime 4292.14, 13176.29, Primary, Shotgun MK-1 Strun 3971.54, 4068.41, Primary, Shotgun Boar 3138.96, 7299.91, Primary, Shotgun Kohm 877.25, 4214.24, Primary, Shotgun They don't all go "Boom!", but they get the job done.A Boomstick is a weapon that goes "Boom!", has a large Damage Per Round, a relatively slow cycle time (minimum amount of time to empty magazine plus reload), and relativly short or inaccurate range. Shotguns are the common example of this, slug or buckshot.Out of the top Damage Per Round guns, only two of them are shotguns, down at the bottom of the list, and only one is a "real" shotgun. All the rest of the shotguns are down there with the rest of the weapons.I could list each shotgun along with the other guns that have a comparable Damage Per Second and I don't think it would be an ugly picture. It would show variety and choice, such as it is in Warframe.The ugly picture is above, where the shotguns stop being the boomsticks they aught to be.Damage fall off makes it much worse, but it is not the only problem the shotguns have. The best boom stick among the shotguns not only has spread and damage fall off to kill it at range, but, even in it's primary positive characteristic is is brutally outclassed. Even in short range, Shotguns are not even an option. If you want a Boomstick, you're better off shouting "Boom!" while using any one of 13 other weapons that make a ping, twang, twong, pew, shwing, thwap, or any sound other than boom. Well, there is Sybaris. It's a real boomstick. It wouldn't suprise me if there are melee weapons that outclass Hek as a Boomstick. You can coptor for range attacks and use an ability in place of Scattered Justice AoE.To begin to fix this problem: 1) Warframe needs much better range mechanics. It needs real Sniping so that Shotguns have some room to breath because right now, snipers are in their territory and kicking their butts.2) Damage drop off has to disappear. It's just pure ner%&^e and punishment for daring to have fun.3) Spread has to be a real game play element on par with another alternative, not punishment for daring to have fun.4) Shotguns have to be able to keep pace with other weapons, especially on the one metric that defines them the most, Damage Per Shot, besides the sound of "Boom!"5) As I suggested for Sniper Rifles, or attempted to, let the player's load out and actions suggest the game play they want and have the enemy react to the player's winning strategies and tactics so that the players can play their load outs. Note: Weapons were modded for maximum Damage Per Round without Primed Point Blank as the topic was drafted before that mod was released and, it's not universally available anyway. I have looked at phage and hek builds with Primed Point Plank and it does not change the point of the thread. Edited January 3, 2015 by ThePresident777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-SLX-J3tAc3 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Good man, I'll see about getting this info into the right hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Fall off should be removed. Even for the Brakk. Then DE can take a look at shotguns again. Spread itself is fine. Stop putting Vicious spread on everything and it works great at mid range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fari Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Honestly not even the highest damage you can get for those weapons, but yeah they've got some nice numbers for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 +1 OP TY for posting something showing the actual disparity between the weapons clearly. This will hopefully *rolls eyes* be seen by someone that gives a crap rather than someone at the bottom of the totem pole that cannot do anything other than shake their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElecZING Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Actually what they really need to give a shotgun is, x2 or x1.5 if theyre x range of the frame (within 1-5m range) then their normal max damage 5-20m and keep thier respective fall off. itll make shotguns viable picks for their playstyle. Because other weapons beat shotguns role in game right now so might as well give them a sweetspot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attel_Malagate Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I want my Hek back!! at least it didn't had a 60 or 200 bluets large magazine to shoot continuously, Hek was OP but the good side of OP, it used to allow players to access end game but still wasn't a kill stealing machine,I made a few suggestions here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/378831-about-hek-and-shotguns-in-general/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rylth Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Courtesy of Warframe Builder, Everybody's Favorite Boomsticks: [EDIT: Added the rest of the shotguns for curiosity.] Dragoon Charged 8573.12, 7596.44, Primary, Shotgun Tigris 6699.00, 4785.00, Primary, Shotgun Strun 5560.17, 6177.97, Primary, Shotgun Strun Wraith 5502.75, 9366.38, Primary, Shotgun Dragoon 5486.80, 8932.00, Primary, Shotgun Sobek 4210.80, 7018.00, Primary, Shotgun Boar Prime 4292.14, 13176.29, Primary, Shotgun MK-1 Strun 3971.54, 4068.41, Primary, Shotgun Boar 3138.96, 7299.91, Primary, Shotgun Kohm 877.25, 4214.24, Primary, Shotgun Yeah, you're wrong on the Kohm there. If you look at the pellet count on Warframe Builder you'll see that it calculates the Kohm's damage based on it's first shot of 1 pellet. The Kohm at full spin fires 10 pellets. Additionally the Kohm reasonably hits 10224.7, 97134.7, 90143.9 with 5 Forma; or 90449., 85926.6, 79742.4 with 3 Forma neither setups using Vicious Spread either. And where's the Hek? You can mod it out to 13671.48, 30077.26, 13609.62. Edited January 8, 2015 by Rylth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) The Hek was just above the edit, in the original list. It's specifically mentioned in the OP as one of the weapons that makes the point of the OP. I don't know how to calculate the Kohm's DPS because when it was first released, it's description both in game and in the wiki was poor, and still is. The Kohm doesn't count as a boom stick, especially when it's first shot is 1 pellet that does 877.25 damage when maximally modded for Damage Per Shot. The Kohm is more of a cross between a machine gun and a scatter gun, a scattering machine gun, or a machine scattering gun. Edited January 8, 2015 by ThePresident777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobtm Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Unlike in many previous threads, I agree with you here. Well mostly that is :p I totally am not fond of the 1) part of your fixes, subsequently the same goes for 5) as it follows that same vein of thought. I completely and totally agree everywhere else however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungpaobeef Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 ya i was so disappointed with all the shotguns i got, even automatic ones. even at point blank. like, where is it that an assault rifle rips up people faster than an automatic shotgun does at point blank range? fix the logic plz de, shotguns are already terrible at long range, why take their specialty range from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LascarCapable Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Quanta 10281.13, 10003.26, Primary, Continous Dude, you could get way more than that IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Honestly damage fall off makes sense, BUT only if applied to all projectiles period. If they are going to go applying "Logic" to WF then it needs to be universal. I think that if they are going to continue to utilize the fall off damage for shotguns then they should also provide a damage multiplier range. Ie: Point blank(1-4m)=3x damage, 5m=2x damage, 10m 1.5x damage, 15m 1x damage, then commit to regular falloff any range after 15 m. This would give shotguns a sense of risk vs reward as currently they have not much of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volume Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Is the Hek only up there because of the multishot mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space_Mouse Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I know DE dont worry much about reality in the game but shotguns dont actualy spread that much, roughtly 1 inch per yard. On another note there are also shotgun slugs, it would be great to see a shotgun with a slug alternate fire mode. 3) Spread has to be a real game play element on par with another alternative, not punishment for daring to have fun. Edited January 9, 2015 by Space_Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yes, the Hek is only up there because of Scattering Justice, the +200% Multishot mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogefighter Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Courtesy of Warframe Builder, Everybody's Favorite Boomsticks: Name, Damage Per Round, Damage Per Second, Notes Opticor 52802.70, 12000.61, Primary, Rifle Ogris Charged 27614.60, 15062.51, Primary, Launcher Dread 26373.33, 14651.85, Primary, Bow Torid 24428.30, 16285.53, Primary, Launcher Paris Prime Charged 23380.46 13753.21, Primary, Sniper Angstrum 20739.21, 18099.67 Secondary, Pistol Vectis 18506.07, 21837.16, Primary, Sniper Vulkar 16323.66, 13991.71, Primary, Sniper Snipetron Vandal 14859.16, 14859.16, Primary, Sniper Penta 13889.00, 9259.33, Primary, Launcher Sybaris 13225.15, 14694.61, Primary, Rifle Phage 11579.70, 11028.29, Primary, Shotgun Synoid Gammacor 10735.58, 31652.82, Secondary, Continous Hek 10516.5, 10468.91, Primary, Shotgun Quanta 10281.13, 10003.26, Primary, Continous [EDIT: Added the rest of the shotguns for curiosity.] Dragoon Charged 8573.12, 7596.44, Primary, Shotgun Tigris 6699.00, 4785.00, Primary, Shotgun Strun 5560.17, 6177.97, Primary, Shotgun Strun Wraith 5502.75, 9366.38, Primary, Shotgun Dragoon 5486.80, 8932.00, Primary, Shotgun Sobek 4210.80, 7018.00, Primary, Shotgun Boar Prime 4292.14, 13176.29, Primary, Shotgun MK-1 Strun 3971.54, 4068.41, Primary, Shotgun Boar 3138.96, 7299.91, Primary, Shotgun Kohm 877.25, 4214.24, Primary, Shotgun They don't all go "Boom!", but they get the job done. A Boomstick is a weapon that goes "Boom!", has a large Damage Per Round, a relatively slow cycle time (minimum amount of time to empty magazine plus reload), and relativly short or inaccurate range. Shotguns are the common example of this, slug or buckshot. Out of the top Damage Per Round guns, only two of them are shotguns, down at the bottom of the list, and only one is a "real" shotgun. All the rest of the shotguns are down there with the rest of the weapons. I could list each shotgun along with the other guns that have a comparable Damage Per Second and I don't think it would be an ugly picture. It would show variety and choice, such as it is in Warframe. The ugly picture is above, where the shotguns stop being the boomsticks they aught to be. Damage fall off makes it much worse, but it is not the only problem the shotguns have. The best boom stick among the shotguns not only has spread and damage fall off to kill it at range, but, even in it's primary positive characteristic is is brutally outclassed. Even in short range, Shotguns are not even an option. If you want a Boomstick, you're better off shouting "Boom!" while using any one of 13 other weapons that make a ping, twang, twong, pew, shwing, thwap, or any sound other than boom. Well, there is Sybaris. It's a real boomstick. It wouldn't suprise me if there are melee weapons that outclass Hek as a Boomstick. You can coptor for range attacks and use an ability in place of Scattered Justice AoE. To begin to fix this problem: 1) Warframe needs much better range mechanics. It needs real Sniping so that Shotguns have some room to breath because right now, snipers are in their territory and kicking their butts. 2) Damage drop off has to disappear. It's just pure ner%&^e and punishment for daring to have fun. 3) Spread has to be a real game play element on par with another alternative, not punishment for daring to have fun. 4) Shotguns have to be able to keep pace with other weapons, especially on the one metric that defines them the most, Damage Per Shot, besides the sound of "Boom!" 5) As I suggested for Sniper Rifles, or attempted to, let the player's load out and actions suggest the game play they want and have the enemy react to the player's winning strategies and tactics so that the players can play their load outs. Note: Weapons were modded for maximum Damage Per Round without Primed Point Blank as the topic was drafted before that mod was released and, it's not universally available anyway. I have looked at phage and hek builds with Primed Point Plank and it does not change the point of the thread. Good sir, my phage can get around 25k DPS with excellent ammo efficiency, crowd control, straight-up murder, and reload time. EDIT: My dread does 53k per yellow crit, and it has a guarunteed yellow crit, with a 25% chance of a red crit. Edited January 9, 2015 by Dogefighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 DPS as in Damage Per Second or Damage Per Round? Either way phage is outclassed. The stats came from Warframebuilder, as I explained. If dread actually does more damage, that makes the point of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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