Mutalist Osprey's Are Awesome.

[Fomiru]

I loved them, they were a breath of fresh air into this game.  I really liked hey the looked, and how they worked,  Not standing in the fire is a easy mechanic but it can be devastating if you do it wrong.

 

RIP, luckily it's only temporary.

 

Can't wait to see them back in.

[Metalarcher]

Um did I miss something?  Did they get changed?  Not standing in the fire is all well and good but these things...they give you no warning of when they are about to make their dash, leaving behind that ambiguously visible shield-piercing cloud behind them...

 

They're difficult to deal with, for sure, but only because they're unfair.

[Darkjackal_2031]

The ospreys aren't gone. They have only been removed from defense missions, where they were most irritating. They added a lot of extra time to the game because you had to track down those few that got caught on the environment. You can still find them in other infested missions.

[Mak_Gohae]

Um did I miss something?  Did they get changed?  Not standing in the fire is all well and good but these things...they give you no warning of when they are about to make their dash, leaving behind that ambiguously visible shield-piercing cloud behind them...

 

They're difficult to deal with, for sure, but only because they're unfair.

 

They were taken out of defense mission cause, "due to issues with navigation and the flow of wave gameplay."

 

By they way, when they charge they warn you when they stop moving, raise their tail, pull their wings back, make a trilling sound and then they charge. It's fast but it should be easily identifiable.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[Wurdyburd]

Throughout the past week, nearly every match I've been in containing the ospreys has brought up how horrible they are, that they ruin the flow of the game, that it's quickly becoming "a 'don't stand in that' kind of game".
Safe to say, all these people were the type to stand still and become a penta turret, or just mow down infested coming up stairs or through another choke point. While they are frustrating sometimes, the clouds are by no means difficult to see, and how dumb do you have to be to stand still in a cloud of poison anyway? Also, it's kind of hard to ruin the 'flow' of the game when lazy players are refusing to engage in flow in the first place.

 

Despite all this: I feel that ospreys should either be lowered in numbers, the poison cloud should be made a wee bit smaller, or ospreys be seperated out into crawler-carrrying and poison-spraying types and make the latter more rare. When there are too many ospreys, they can be a bit of a pest.

[Pie_mastyr]

the only thing i dont like about them is the toxin proc, it makes surprise attacks very annoying to get away from

[KvotheTheArcane1]

By they way, when they charge they warn you when they stop moving, raise their tail, pull their wings back, make a trilling sound and then they charge. It's fast but it should be easily identifiable.

They give roughly half a second of warning before charging, and the noise is far too easily missed because of everything that's going on at once normally.

Edited June 26, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Kyphe]

Sounds like a troll thread, first hey I love that thing you have all been hating on the past week look at me, then hey if you don't like them you must be lazy or dumb.

 

yup troll thread.

[Mak_Gohae]

Despite all this: I feel that ospreys should either be lowered in numbers, the poison cloud should be made a wee bit smaller, or ospreys be seperated out into crawler-carrrying and poison-spraying types and make the latter more rare. When there are too many ospreys, they can be a bit of a pest.

 

They lowered the spawn rate and damage already. They even took out the ability of the crawlers to attack while being carried.

They have been nerfed enough already.

 

And i also suggested for the unit be separate into two types since the carrying crawlers that could attack was mega fun.

 

 

They give roughly half a second of warning before charging, and the noise is far too easily missed because of everything that's going on at once normally.

 

Train your ear for it, that's what i do.

I did  the same thing when going for the Oxium Ospreys, those also make their own unique sounds.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Train your ear for it, that's what i do.

I did  the same thing when going for the Oxium Ospreys, those also make their own unique sounds.

That's beside the point here, an unfair mechanic is still unfair. unless you're near the end of their charge the lack of wind up time/notable sign of their attack/fast movement speed you're gonna be hit.

[magusat999]

I'm glad they are out of defense missions - toxins are the cheapest element in the game (insta-kill) and they just flit around pooping on the entire mission. They make the waves too long and are seriously OP.

[PsiWarp]

To be honest, I feel their inclusion in DS defense seems out of context... Alad V only recently infected ships found near Eris, did he somehow also unleash his newly infested robotics into all Dark Sectors in the Solar system simultaneously?

[Metalarcher]

They were taken out of defense mission cause, "due to issues with navigation and the flow of wave gameplay."

 

By they way, when they charge they warn you when they stop moving, raise their tail, pull their wings back, make a trilling sound and then they charge. It's fast but it should be easily identifiable.

Just because you know it's happening doesn't mean you can swivel your camera at that exact moment to find the enemy based entirely on the sound it makes and calculate exactly what flight path it will be taking.  It could be charging at you or the guy in front of you and you have almost no way of figuring out that precise angle difference.  Add all that to the enemy being extremely sneaking because it makes very little sound and is often among a hundred other infested you want to take care of first and there's no way you can get through a mission without getting hit a few times.  Not to mention the problem with the visual effect is still very pertinent.

 

Seems pretty unfair to me.

[Mak_Gohae]

That's beside the point here, an unfair mechanic is still unfair. unless you're near the end of their charge the lack of wind up time/notable sign of their attack/fast movement speed you're gonna be hit.

 

No, that's the actual point. The guy said that they gave no warning, they do.

 

Just because you know it's happening doesn't mean you can swivel your camera at that exact moment to find the enemy based entirely on the sound it makes and calculate exactly what flight path it will be taking.  It could be charging at you or the guy in front of you and you have almost no way of figuring out that precise angle difference.  Add all that to the enemy being extremely sneaking because it makes very little sound and is often among a hundred other infested you want to take care of first and there's no way you can get through a mission without getting hit a few times.  Not to mention the problem with the visual effect is still very pertinent.

 

Seems pretty unfair to me.

 

The dude said there was no warning and i replied showing the warning, i didnt say that it was extremely easy, i didnt say that they call you like the Lotus and go, "Hello Mr. Tenno this is Mutalist 87-09, i am about to charge at you and here is my directions of attack. Please look at this quickly as i am about to do it. Good bye." I clearly say that this happens fast. By the way, they are the only flying unit for the Infested.... how are they hard to spot?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

No, that's the actual point. The guy said that they gave no warning, they do.

You're arguing semantics now. The "warning" is so close to no warning it's not even funny. You know perfectly well what he meant by "no warning".

[Mak_Gohae]

You're arguing semantics now. The "warning" is so close to no warning it's not even funny. You know perfectly well what he meant by "no warning".

 

I arguing what was written and nothing more. 

If he meant to say that there's almost no warning then he should have written that.

The Mutalist work the same as the Oxium when they charge... do you know not try to avoid the Oxium charge?

I would think everyone does so they can get the drop. I try, i dont say that i succeed all the time but it can be done.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I arguing what was written and nothing more. 

If he meant to say that there's almost no warning then he should have written that.

The Mutalist work the same as the Oxium when they charge... do you know not try to avoid the Oxium charge?

I would think everyone does so they can get the drop. I try, i dont say that i succeed all the time but it can be done.

1. Still aruging semantics about the minor exaggeration.

 

2. Oxium drones have the same problem, but they're nowhere near as deadly, so no one cared as much. (and they die on the charge)

Edited June 26, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Mak_Gohae]

1. Still aruging semantics about the minor exaggeration.

 

 

Given that you are not the poster this theory of yours is not valid by any means and there is no reason to continue on with this. 

 

 

2. Oxium drones have the same problem, but they're nowhere near as deadly, so no one cared as much. (and they die on the charge)

 

It isnt about what they can do but about what the player can do to tell when the charge happens.

From all the Oxium practice people should have been ready for this.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

It isnt about what they can do but about what the player can do to tell when the charge happens.

From all the Oxium practice people should have been ready for this.

You can try to justify it however you want, but it doesn't stop a bad idea from being bad.

It's way different from the oxium drone:

 

1. It ignores shields. This is huge! It means it bypasses the players primary defense mechanic (regening "HP")

2. It's a large AoE.

3. It's not a one time cast. The enemy lives after it attacks, it can even chain a few together given a little time.

4. The player is given almost no time to dodge/avoid the attack. That's not challenge, that's punishing. Look at dark souls. Every enemy has obvious tells of what it's gonna do, and the player is given enough time to react (i.e. dodge, block, or strike them first)

5. The enemy is fairly common. Combine this with the last few points, and it's a recipe for a poorly designed enemy.

 

Given that you are not the poster this theory of yours is not valid by any means and there is no reason to continue on with this.

Given that everyone exaggerates from time to time, I think we can safely conclude that yes they were exaggerating, or never got a chance to see the ospery do the split second windup.

[Metalarcher]

No, that's the actual point. The guy said that they gave no warning, they do.

 

 

The dude said there was no warning and i replied showing the warning, i didnt say that it was extremely easy, i didnt say that they call you like the Lotus and go, "Hello Mr. Tenno this is Mutalist 87-09, i am about to charge at you and here is my directions of attack. Please look at this quickly as i am about to do it. Good bye." I clearly say that this happens fast. By the way, they are the only flying unit for the Infested.... how are they hard to spot?

It's not about being "easy" to get a warning from the osprey, it's about being fair.  Right now you have a sound.  If you're not looking RIGHT AT THEM you have no other warning.  And even when you do have that warning, it's pretty easy to have nowhere to go (i.e. hallways and corners).

 

And they're hard to spot because they're tiny and make no other noises besides the warning sound (which I've just covered) and can easily float behind you...they weren't exactly uncommon enemies either, so keeping tabs on multiple of them at the same time...it's kind of a lot to expect a veteran player to deal with, let alone your average joe.

 

It seems the only real solution is to bring along some form of healing yourself continuously.  And that restricts you to a VERY narrow playstyle pool.  Which, when all is said and done, is not fun.  And isn't that what we should be working towards...?

[taiiat]

i see this thread was already on the fast track to derailment, so let's fix that.

 

 

Mutalist Ospreys are infact great, i agree! a great idea.

but, ofcourse, as we all know by now, there's some tweaks that are necessary.

 

more warning, and types of warning, before the Toxin Cloud charge is pertinent. the audio cue is great, but if a player was deaf, they would have no idea it even existed if they didn't see it. they'll blend into the Infested too well.

 

a visual cue for the Mutalist Ospreys will be important. beats me what it should be though.

and other than navigation, Mutalists appearing in swarms is the other primary issue that's likely to happen.

 

and one last concern, Toxin scales like crazy. not only do the Enemies which carry that Damage Type deal high Damage to start with, Tenno take +50% Damage from Toxin. and Toxin Effects from these Enemies for some reason do even more Damage, for some reason.

that means Toxin hits us like a brick wall. at earlier levels it's fun, but at later levels it becomes insane. it needs to scale more smoothly, rather than like a mountain.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

a visual cue for the Mutalist Ospreys will be important. beats me what it should be though.

and other than navigation, Mutalists appearing in swarms is the other primary issue that's likely to happen.

Personally, I'd like to see an actual wind up, as in a shiney glowing effect before they charge, and something that shows them charging up the poision (i.e. swelling up).

 

and one last concern, Toxin scales like crazy. not only do the Enemies which carry that Damage Type deal high Damage to start with, Tenno take +50% Damage from Toxin. and Toxin Effects from these Enemies for some reason do even more Damage, for some reason.

that means Toxin hits us like a brick wall. at earlier levels it's fun, but at later levels it becomes insane. it needs to scale more smoothly, rather than like a mountain.

Here I'd like to see them convert it to viral instead. I don't see the ospery ever being a good attack unit, it seems more like a support unit (carrying crawlers, etc into battle). To properly do it, DE would need to redo their AI a bit (i.e. making them pick crawlers up, and move them forward, then hide/charge when low on HP)

[LukeAura]

I loved them, they were a breath of fresh air into this game. 

Did you really have to use breath of fresh air?

Although respectfully I disagree. They're another priority target in the sort order, and another area threatening unit intended to get you moving out of your space like a Napalm, we've also had toxic ancients and toxin aura eximi so they're not new by means of attacking health directly. Nothing about them is particularly different.

 And for what they're supposed to do, I find the direct health damage to be a little wrong? 

Not saying it's entirely a bad mechanic, but as a support unit having an ability that goes right through shields isn't exactly supporting his allies but replacing them. I'd rather see their death clouds work more like Boomer Bile from L4D, but that's just me. 

Edited June 27, 2014 by LukeAura

[shepshifter]

They give roughly half a second of warning before charging, and the noise is far too easily missed because of everything that's going on at once normally.

how can you miss that sound? unless your (or my) volume settings are weird, to me it is the loudest most annoying sound and it can be easily heard over other enemys (yes I mean like wave 40 defence amounts of enemys). 

[taiiat]

Here I'd like to see them convert it to viral instead. I don't see the ospery ever being a good attack unit, it seems more like a support unit (carrying crawlers, etc into battle). To properly do it, DE would need to redo their AI a bit (i.e. making them pick crawlers up, and move them forward, then hide/charge when low on HP)

Viral would be completely acceptable as well. that wouldn't solve the problem with Toxin though, as it does still scale out of hand on Tenno. it should be dangerous, but the amount it scales is about as steep a trend as Armor on Ancients used to be way back when.