Explosive Ammo Nerf ♪♫♪-The Perfect Fix To The Fix-♪♫♪

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

They needed their ammo nerfed.  That should not be debated, at least not in this thread.  I think that it is a good thing that they swapped to sniper ammo too.

 

Here is the thing though, they may have gone too far with the numbers.  I think that they ammo totals should be double the current totals so 40 for the Penta, 60 for the Angstrum, and so on.

 

Now before you get greedy and demand 70 - 100 ammo on all launchers, just keep in mind a dev is more likely to respond to small reasonable suggestions such as a simple double of the current ammo counts. If you ask for like 72+ Penta ammo then it really destroys the entire point of the nerf in the first place and will likely be ignored so let's be reasonable.

 

Please +1 this post if you agree.

Edited August 16, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[vaugahn]

I agree. Up to 40 keeps in the spirit of the change without being so severe. 

 

The ammo system needs some pretty heavy changes IMO, but this isn't really the thread for that.

[(PSN)R6CHAMELEON]

Hell yes that seemed a bit much with the launchers especially for some of them but i do get it. Double the ammo the way you mention and i think they hit the nail on the head and would be fine with that.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I think 30 for the Penta(pushing it a bit) and maybe 51 for the Angstrum(just right) is more appropriate, the nerfs were quite heavy, but Angstrum suffered the worst.

[(PSN)OfficialAtom]

I definitely agree Penta & Ogris should be around 30 maybe, Angstrum somewhere around 50 since it can fire multiple shots at once, and I can understand how some people are upset about the nerf , Ogris takes 5 Injectors and a Forma to make and the Angstrum costs 2 Argon Crystals, but for now just throw on a ammo mutation mod and keep playing.

[Alkira]

I think 30 for the Penta(pushing it a bit) and maybe 51 for the Angstrum(just right) is more appropriate, the nerfs were quite heavy, but Angstrum suffered the worst.

 

 

I definitely agree Penta & Ogris should be around 30 maybe, Angstrum somewhere around 50 since it can fire multiple shots at once, and I can understand how some people are upset about the nerf , Ogris takes 5 Injectors and a Forma to make and the Angstrum costs 2 Argon Crystals, but for now just throw on a ammo mutation mod and keep playing.

Angstrum deals more damage than the Penta.

But on topic: "+1"... Doubling the new ammo cap would feel more balanced [and make the Castanas feel less terrible than they do now].

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Angstrum deals more damage than the Penta.

But on topic: "+1"... Doubling the new ammo cap would feel more balanced [and make the Castanas feel less terrible than they do now].

In my experience a single shot (not full charge) does less damage than the Penta.

[Arabaxus]

50 for Ogris and Penta would be fine with me.

 

For the Angstrum, I'd rather return ammunition to 210, and fix the actual issue with it, the 425 Base Damage. Reduce it to something not as ridiculous, for the love of god.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

50 for Ogris and Penta would be fine with me.

 

For the Angstrum, I'd rather return ammunition to 210, and fix the actual issue with it, the 425 Base Damage. Reduce it to something not as ridiculous, for the love of god.

The Angstrum is fine with 60 ammo.  Just a good primary weapon for most enemies (punch through is your friend) then swap to the angstrum when there is a large group bunched together that the rifle isn't cutting it for.

[Kaboinglefop]

Many games have 2 maybe 4 units of launcher ammo.

Just pick your shots wisely it's not a weapon that's made to be used constantly.

Think of it as a sniper but for AoE purposes

it kinda has a niche it should fill

Spewing explosives everywhere just feels lame after a while.

but again this is my opinion and that doesn't necessarily make it right.

If this is DE's choice I feel slightly inclined to say that they didn't want tenno to run around bombarding everything endlessly.

60 Explosives is still a bit excessive.

The explosive weapons already feel very powerful as-is.

The ammo should be scarce to counterbalance their potential.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Kaboinglefop

[low1991]

Many games have 2 maybe 4 units of launcher ammo.

Just pick your shots wisely it's not a weapon that's made to be used constantly.

Think of it as a sniper but for AoE purposes

From some of those games i know, have a total of 6 ammo which provides an 99% instant kill/frag.

unless u'r say our orgis/penta' damage will be buffed to that standard, there's no need to nerf their ammo pool.

 

Yes, pick your shots wisely... someone ask DE to implement heavy vehicles-type units plox... make them 99% damage reduction from non-explosive at that. and i will pick my shots (orgis/penta) WISELY.

 

We do have a Sniper-type rifles under primary which main purpose is to snipe you know...

Using an AOE-RPG weapon to snipe is dumb... espically this RPG's have traveling time.

And to add, you will meant to say "LEAD" the target...

[Kaboinglefop]

From some of those games i know, have a total of 6 ammo which provides an 99% instant kill/frag.

unless u'r say our orgis/penta' damage will be buffed to that standard, there's no need to nerf their ammo pool.

 

Yes, pick your shots wisely... someone ask DE to implement heavy vehicles-type units plox... make them 99% damage reduction from non-explosive at that. and i will pick my shots (orgis/penta) WISELY.

 

We do have a Sniper-type rifles under primary which main purpose is to snipe you know...

Using an AOE-RPG weapon to snipe is dumb... espically this RPG's have traveling time.

And to add, you will meant to say "LEAD" the target...

you missed my point

my point is that rocket launchers have a specific niche, just as snipers do.

The niche is AoE capability, which many guns lack.

Instead of gunning down multiple enemies one at a time, they boast the ability of multiple in one fell sweep, and as such reduced ammo is sensible.

Furthermore, Ogris/Penta's damage is DEFINITELY sufficient to fill this role, and I don't know what negative ranked serration and heavy caliber you're using to make it ineffective enough to do so.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Kaboinglefop

[Whitewolf..UK..]

I have been playing since U6.Ofc the 540 ammo was always too much. But i feel de has approach this a little too heavy handed.

I play alot of solo so i run out of ammo quick. Jumping in to get more ammo gets me killed very quick. This in turn only limits game play for me.

I say booster launcher ammo up to 40 to balance this out

Edited August 15, 2014 by Whitewolf..UK..

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Huh, I would have thought this would get more support. 

[(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo]

disagree.

[Androvich]

I'm against this idea because it's nothing more than "makeup". ATM the numbers are really great, I mean I never get out of ammo with the right duo of weapons and mods. But the problem comes from an uncomformity in the way the game was fixed.

 

 

Lets see:

 

It's okay to carry about 1300 ammo for some weapons (with maximum ammo boost) AND 30 rockets for the angstrum.

It's NOT okay to carry about 70 sniper ammo and 30 rockets for the angstrum, you have to cope with 30 morphing ammo, changing from sniper ammo to explosive ammo.

It's okay to have an ogris/penta with ANGSTRUM max ammo, which is over ogris/penta base maximum.

 

 

 

-> add the fact that the ammo conversion mods don't work well with some weapons, like the angstrum, still using a handgun ammo converter instead of the sniper ammo's.

 

 

It's truly a shame for some people who like to use sniping weapons as well as devastating close ranged weapons. (ATM I like to use the Snipertron Vandal with the angstrum, they do pretty well together :P)

 

 

 

Concerning these ammo glitches, it's certainly due to the game being coded with all ammo variables inside the Warframe object instead than inside the weapons. that way, when the game initiates, all values are set to the weapon limitation. However, it's done in a particular order, which is currently ??? > sniper rifle > ??? > handgun. That way, the angstrum overwrites the limitation of the sniper rifle and thus, destroy many things in the game.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Androvich

[low1991]

 

Instead of gunning down multiple enemies one at a time, they boast the ability of multiple in one fell sweep, and as such reduced ammo is sensible.

Furthermore, Ogris/Penta's damage is DEFINITELY sufficient to fill this role, and I don't know what negative ranked serration and heavy caliber you're using to make it ineffective enough to do so.

-Max rank serration & HC, on penta in ODD. (early wave 30 n below)

-Ancient disrupter/healer tanks my penta 2+ shots.

not sure about now.

 

rmb, i didnt use 'endless' for my case.

[SeaUrchins]

Furthermore, Ogris/Penta's damage is DEFINITELY sufficient to fill this role

 

You probably do not realise how the damage reducing auras from ancient healers cut the ogris/penta damage.

 

With potatoed and fully forma ogris (with maxed everything) you need up to 3 shots to take out a SINGLE ancient healer. Unless other fully modded and tuned primary weapons require 1/6 of their total ammo to take same enemy unit down, I do not see the launchers' ammo cut as balance.

 

If it has low ammo, it should be accordingly powerful. Give it 20 times less ammo, but make it 20 times more powerful, after all it is a rocket/grenade launcher, it has to deal more damage per target/group than a bow driven by muscle power.

 

Cos, let's face it, currently ammo cut makes no difference in defence missions or survival, because even without any ammo mutation you get enough of ammo pickups, so the "USE AMMO WISELY" concept is not working. In assassination missions where the boss is a bullet sponge, the "USE AMMO WISELY" still does not work, because certain bosses can tank your full ogris ammo stock and live happily ever after. Ammo cut just makes your playing experience uncomfortable at first, because you go OMG AM I OKAY WITH AMMO and check the numbers every 2 seconds.

 

Well, I still put +1 for ammo increase.

Edited August 16, 2014 by SeaUrchins

[Monolake]

-> add the fact that the ammo conversion mods don't work well with some weapons, like the angstrum, still using a handgun ammo converter instead of the sniper ammo's.

.

 

It works fine, pistol (on Angstrum/Castans) and rifle (on launchers) ammo mutators convert to sniper ammo. And you never run out.

[Monolake]

You probably do not realise how the damage reducing auras from ancient healers cut the ogris/penta damage.

 

With potatoed and fully forma ogris (with maxed everything) you need up to 3 shots to take out a SINGLE ancient healer. Unless other fully modded and tuned primary weapons require 1/6 of their total ammo to take same enemy unit down, I do not see the launchers' ammo cut as balance.

 

If it has low ammo, it should be accordingly powerful. Give it 20 times less ammo, but make it 20 times more powerful, after all it is a rocket/grenade launcher, it has to deal more damage per target/group than a bow driven by muscle power.

 

Cos, let's face it, currently ammo cut makes no difference in defence missions or survival, because even without any ammo mutation you get enough of ammo pickups, so the "USE AMMO WISELY" concept is not working. In assassination missions where the boss is a bullet sponge, the "USE AMMO WISELY" still does not work, because certain bosses can tank your full ogris ammo stock and live happily ever after. Ammo cut just makes your playing experience uncomfortable at first, because you go OMG AM I OKAY WITH AMMO and check the numbers every 2 seconds.

 

Well, I still put +1 for ammo increase.

 

That's an issue with Healers giving  90%(!) damage resistance to the linked mobs while healing himself, and its universal, it affects all type of weapons and warframe abilities. Yet you can still brute-force it just spamming Penta until everything dies, which you cant do with abilities.

 

Do you want to count ammo efficiency? Maxed Penta will do ~18k per shot = 360000 for 20 ammo. In a large AOE, meaning its actually much more effective vs groups. Easily 4-5 times more efficient vs infested who pile up at the defence pod, not even mentioning Vortex.  Add an ammo mutator or scavenger aura and you will never run out of ammo.

Orgis does even more (~27k per shot) Angstrum does ~16k per 1 rocket (with reload speed mod)

 

 

Maxed Soma does ~1500 per shot = 810000 for 540 ammo. Single target. Even with ammo mutator you will be running short on ammo at high levels.

[TheErebus.]

I came here expecting a song about it..

 

I'm very disappointed in you Flame.

 

(Agree with nerf btw)

[SeaUrchins]

Maxed Soma does ~1500 per shot = 810000 for 540 ammo. Single target. Even with ammo mutator you will be running short on ammo at high levels.

 

That's the point: full ammo stock of soma deals more damage to a single target than 20 rockets, which is hilarious. Not to mention with soma you can go for headshots or make use of banshee's sonar to dramatically increase your damage. Can't do that with ogris.

 

The solution for it is really simple: remove launchers from game and give players catalysts/formas wasted on them. Issue with ammo/damage will be sold once and for all.

Edited August 16, 2014 by SeaUrchins

[low1991]

That's an issue with Healers giving  90%(!) damage resistance to the linked mobs while healing himself, and its universal, it affects all type of weapons and warframe abilities. Yet you can still brute-force it just spamming Penta until everything dies, which you cant do with abilities.

 

Do you want to count ammo efficiency? Maxed Penta will do ~18k per shot = 360000 for 20 ammo. In a large AOE, meaning its actually much more effective vs groups. Easily 4-5 times more efficient vs infested who pile up at the defence pod, not even mentioning Vortex.  Add an ammo mutator or scavenger aura and you will never run out of ammo.

 

to first one:

With max PE build, u can spam... excluding Refill kits. a Vauban' vortex can CC the whole bunch better than penta AOE.

now, u cant spam penta/orgis, cause. low ammo pool.

 

to second one:

math calculation means nothing in space. using Penta for example, there's the travelling arc. unlike Hit-scan weapons, you need to lead the target or SOME skills in estimating on what degree to fire. (excluding mindless zombie close-fire)

adding ammo mutator to weapon loadout requires 1 mod slot. meaning 1 less mod for you to do Min,Max build.

Scavenger aura... have anyone even use them yet? NOT me for sure.

A weapon with low Refilling rate per pickup & low ammo drop rate isn't considered spammable.

[Wargasmz]

I totally do not agree.  The fact that these explosive weapons kill the wielder and that they are too cumbersome to use in most missions means that they are primarily used for defense and survival missions not to mention used with frames not meant for direct combat.  With the ammo nerf they now become almost completely useless.  Perhaps in lieu of an ammo nerf it should get a bit of a dps nerf.  I also don't see why the Angstrum should have more ammo than the Penta as suggested in previous posts.  Penta is a primary and larger weapon, it should have more ammo than the Angstrum.  As far as comparing explosives weapons to other games, well this isn't other games.  Go google MK-19.  There is a real fully automatic grenade launcher that shoots 200 RPM.  I don't think the quantity of the ammo was the issue.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Wargasmz

[Monolake]

That's the point: full ammo stock of soma deals more damage to a single target than 20 rockets, which is hilarious. Not to mention with soma you can go for headshots or make use of banshee's sonar to dramatically increase your damage. Can't do that with ogris.

 

The solution for it is really simple: remove launchers from game and give players catalysts/formas wasted on them. Issue with ammo/damage will be sold once and for all.

Except you need to try really hard to hit only a single target  with 5m radius explosion. In real conditions you are doing more damage on average with 20 Penta shots than with 540 rifle rounds. Penta and Ogris still remain the most  efficient weapons in the game vs groups.

 

Don't need to dramatise.  The solution is to put on an ammo mutator and go on playing same as before. If you need 57 reserve ammo - equip Angstrum/Castanas with Trick mag (ammo is shared)

 

The weapon that could do with more ammo is Torid - its still not nearly as devastating as Penta and has smaller AOE (3m)

 

to first one:

With max PE build, u can spam... excluding Refill kits. a Vauban' vortex can CC the whole bunch better than penta AOE.

now, u cant spam penta/orgis, cause. low ammo pool.

 

to second one:

math calculation means nothing in space. using Penta for example, there's the travelling arc. unlike Hit-scan weapons, you need to lead the target or SOME skills in estimating on what degree to fire. (excluding mindless zombie close-fire)

adding ammo mutator to weapon loadout requires 1 mod slot. meaning 1 less mod for you to do Min,Max build.

Scavenger aura... have anyone even use them yet? NOT me for sure.

A weapon with low Refilling rate per pickup & low ammo drop rate isn't considered spammable.

Average ultimate ability does what, ~1500 damage? Maxed Penta does 18000 in a single shot.  Nothing more to add.

 

Are you going to complain that its hard to hit with 5 m radius explosion? Get real. Only case you ever miss is if you try to long-range  snipe with Penta. Castanas is very hard to land at mid-long range.  Other weapons are not.

 

Yes mutator takes 1 mod slot, means you lose ~12% damage.  Or you can equip Angstrum/Castanas and put mutator on it. Unlimited ammo restock with no damage loss and spam all you want.  This change was supposed to make you use AOE weapons only when appropriate, instead of mindless spam- to obliterate everything. But it doesn't,  the system is full of holes, have fun exploiting it.

 

Kinda ridiculous  that most players don't even try to adapt and act like its the end of the launchers weapons.