Practical Rework Ideas For All Frames

[RealPandemonium]

Because if crazy people can do it, so can I.

 

Excalibur:

 

Excal's abilities are fine; they just need polish.  

 

1 - Make it use and stack up the melee combo counter.  Freeze the combo counter while the ability is in use.  Up the proc chance.  Fix the issue where Excal gets stuck on enemies instead of passing them.

 

2 - Line of sight change is fine if it is implemented in the way Megan stated it would be in the patch notes.

 

3 - Increase base height substantially (something like 50%.)  Give us more control/allow us to cancel the jump so that we aren't locked in place, unable to act during the ascent.  Add invincibility frames on start-up or damage reduction for the full ascent so that we can cast 2 and 4 at higher levels without being massacred on the way up out of cover.

 

4 - Give all javelins the same effect given to killing shots from bow/dart weapons, whether or not the javelin kills its target.  Enemies hit would be carried far, damaging (and maybe knocking down?) all enemies in their path (being pinned for a short duration after hitting a wall would be cool as well.)  Up its proc chance, and fix its animation so that it isn't a huge liability to cast.  Fix targeting so that it can hit enemies above and below Excalibur more reliably.

 

If all these changes are implemented I don't think anyone could call Excal a weak frame.

 

 

Ember:

 

1 - fine

 

2 - fine

 

3 - 

 

Adding supportive properties to Fire Blast could work.  Here are some examples (partially stolen from Kurtys' post above:)

 

Fire Ball - AOE hits gain the properties of direct hits

 

Accelerant - No direct  benefit, but firing through the fire ring grants bonus fire damage, similar to Volt shield and MQuanta balls (somewhat stronger, but no critical shenanigans.)

 

World On Fire - Ember gains the old Overheat damage reduction effect (not as strong as it used to be, but with the old graphic that people loved!) when she's inside the circle with WoF active. 

 

 

These augments are powerful but come at the cost of laying down Fire Blast every time you want to use them.  They also bring back Overheat conditionally and allow teammates to take better advantage of Accelerant's damage buff.  Everyone wins.  

4 - Make it a toggle.  The current version requires too many duration mods to be effective and results in wasted energy due to the inflexibility of keeping it up when it's needed.  Making it a toggle will give you on-demand extra dps when you need it at the cost of energy, which is the purpose of the ability. 

 

Ember could also use an increase in base sprint speed to help keep her safe and make 2/3/4 easier/more flexible to use.

 

 

Banshee:

 

1 - Make it a free action (casts with one hand even while sprinting/firing/reloading.) 

 

2 - Make it behave as an aura, the way Silence currently does, but recastable so we can reroll weak spots if .

we want.  Make weak spots a little easier to hit or spawn on more clearly designated areas.

 

3 - Make this a normal radial ability the way Sonar currently is.  When cast, it staggers enemies in range and deafens them permanently.  After the stagger ends, the enemies enter their unalert state (not aggro, vulnerable to stealth attacks and stealth melee damage multiplier, patrols slowly,) regardless of the current alert status of the current map tile or even the whole map.  Afflicted enemies can only be alerted if they personally spot a Tenno (they won't instantly know you're there the moment anyone in the room sees you.)

 

4 - Speed up the animation a bit.  Make its Blast procs actually knock down enemies.  Maybe increase the initial shockwave damage to give Banshee some teeth up close.

  

 

Nekros:

 

 

Nekros just needs some tweaks to make his skills functional.  I would do it like this:

 

1 - Make the secondary damage (projectile and projectile explosion) affected by power strength. Make it castable with left hand (while reloading, firing, etc.) Add Viral or Slash proc chance to help Nekros kill heavy units in preparation for casting 4.

 

2 - Allow it to be recastable (more energy = more cc, same as bastille,) add a slow.

 

3 - Speed up the animation, maybe bump range up to 30m or more.  Make it castable with one hand as well, so it doesn't interrupt gameplay.

 

4 - Improve shadow AI (bosses and Tenno specters are a precedent for this, though I am aware that AI is a $#*(@ to code in any case) and increase their level by 30% to make them stronger than their competition.  Also allow them to spawn as Eximus.

 

 

These changes would make all of his moves fulfill their purpose while not drastically altering their design or incorporating unprecedented features. 

 

 

 

Mag:

 

1 - Instead of flinging everyone randomly, now gathers enemies toward the front of your crosshair and staggers them.

 

2 - No change

 

3 - Lower the cost or allow it to spread to other units if the afflicted unit dies before its duration is up.

 

4 - Make it ragdoll enemies all over the place the way Pull does currently.  Inflict a slow + puncture proc when they get up.

 

 

Frost:

 

1 - Make it the same as Ember's Fire Ball but with a freeze effect instead of a burn effect (always freeze on direct hit, 50% freeze chance on splash damage) and a smaller AOE.  Make the amount of damage taken before the Freeze is cancelled based on power strength or the enemy's level.  When the freeze ends, the enemy is afflicted with a Cold proc. 

 

2 - Either make it Frost's main damage ability or make it more CC-oriented, depending on what is done with 4.

 

3 - Make Frost's armor apply to its total HP after invincibility instead of adding a pittance of extra HP.  Make the slow apply everywhere in the globe instead of at a fixed radius.  

 

4 - Either make it a powerful CC ability or a powerful damage ability, depending on what is done with 2.  Either way, its radial nature should probably be eliminated and those showers of ice and snow in the animation should actually play a role in the ability.  This should be interesting and challenging to use, but rewarding.

 

 

Loki:

 

1 - Decoy has an invincible period similar to Frost's Snow Globe where it gains additional HP based on damage ignored.

 

2 - No change

 

3 - Switching with an enemy or decoy causes it to become the target of all nearby enemies for a few seconds.

 

4 - No change, but some variety in enemy melee equipment would be cool. 

 

 

 

Nyx:

 

1 - The mind-controlled unit is immune to friendly fire and stores all friendly damage inflicted, taking it all when the ability expires.  Mind controlled enemy has increased speed (by 10-30%.)

 

2 - Improved pathing and targeting.  Does not expire when it hits walls, but bounces off and seeks a new target (max 4 times before expiring.)  Increased proc chance.  Travels slowly when not aimed and quickly when aimed with the aim button (RMB for PC users by default.)

 

3 - Unchanged

 

4 - Revert to its pre-toggle state.  Recasting it while it is in use ends it early at no energy cost.

 

 

 

Hydroid:

 

1 - Unchanged

 

2 - Increase proc chance

 

3 - Allow us to move at a walking pace while the ability is in use so that we can slowly gather enemies in the pool.

 

4 - Allow it to spawn in the air again if it targets airborne enemies.  That allowed for some interesting setups and wasn't that weird, considering that the tentacles teleport in from another dimension.

 

 

Oberon:

 

1 - Unchanged

 

2 - Add a slow or a chance to proc Radiation/Blast to allow it to keep enemies on the carpet for longer and give it some offensive teeth.  Consider changing its damage type at least partially to make it effective VS Infested (and to a lesser extent, Corpus.)

 

3 - Unchanged for now

 

4 - Make the chance for enemies to drop HP orbs last for a few seconds after the ability ends instead of mandating the killing blow.

 

 

Saryn:

 

1 - Make spores easier to pop.

 

2 - Fix the buggy explosion hit mechanics, increase threat level/radius.

 

3 - Needs more power and more interesting mechanics.

 

4 - Eventually, it would be nice for this ability to interact more intuitively with duration mods but it is functional as it is.

 

 

Zephyr:

 

1 - Increase Proc chance.

 

2 - Fix the buggy hit detection, increase the falling distance damage coefficient, add a significant range coefficient.  

 

3 - Unchanged.

 

4 - Give the caster's elements priority when determining which element is used.

 

It would help if Zephyr's weird artificial air resistance was also toned down and its related bugs fixed.

 

 

 

 

Finished for now.  Critiques and discussion are welcome.  I left out some frames due to not having any specific changes in mind at the moment or because I don't think they need anything.  I could do those if readers bring up specific issues they have with one of those frames.

Edited December 4, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Eyeless]

+1 

 

Too tired to give additional feedback. 

[RealPandemonium]

At least people read my PSA thread about the upvote button. :P

[RealPandemonium]

Now with a new thread title!  (Thanks nameless moderator.)

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

This might be helpful.

[Aumaan]

Of the ones listed I've only used Frost, Mag, Nekros and Ember but I'm going to stick with Nekros and Ember for now.

 

Ember:

 

I like  the suggestions for her 3.  Synergy with all her other powers would be very interesting.  Another possible thing to add would be having the inside of the circle also damage enemies.  As it is, even if they added the power synergies, Fireblast does't really do much by itself.  If it was changed to a plain old self-buff those would be perfect, but as a giant circle of fire, I feel like it alone should do something more.

 

As for World on Fire, making it a toggle would definitely make the ability much more usable and I feel like it would mix with the animations well (instead of the current, smash ground once, suddenly random pillars of fire for 20 seconds). Maybe change the animation to an aura of flames that pour into the ground from Ember for as long as it is active.

 

 

Nekros:

 

For Soul Punch, if the secondary damages were affected by power strength they would have to have a major increase in base power for it to do anything (if I remember correctly one does about 50 damage and the other 100).  I like the forced Viral or Slash proc though. I personally would love for the AOE of the power to be easier to control, possibly just centered on the target instead of some random wall or floor behind them.  Maybe rename the power Soul Burst or Soul Shred and make their souls rip out from their body. That might make it too similar to Fireball though.

 

I completely agree with the changes of terrify, especially the slow. The sole reason I don't use that power is because it make it harder to kill enemies because they run around like idiots during it's use.

 

Again, completely agree with the desecrate changes. although, I would personally love to see it turn desecrated corpses into a bomb as well but that may be asking too much.

 

As for Shadows, you really covered the biggest problem I have with the ability, the abysmal shadow AI.  Fixing that would make things much better already but I like the idea of buffing the enemies more and really like the idea of the Eximi keeping their auras.  Another idea would be to make it so enemies killed by the Shadows give count towards the Shadows of the Dead queue.  It would give Nekros more of a general of the undead feel, someone who doesn't have to kill enemies himself because he has dead things to do that for him.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Aumaan

[Otenko]

Ember:

I'm personally against the idea of abilities being toggleable. I think toggled abilities create a lot of disregard for building for stats. For World on Fire, I think the casting time should be reduced dramatically (1/2 or 3/8s cast time) if it maintains its current duration and reduced slightly (3/4 to 1/2 cast time) if it gets a duration increase.

 

I think the Fire Blast creates an interesting secondary effect for Ember's skills, but I can't help but wonder if it'll make Electric Shield seem that much more unappealing by comparison.

 

I guess Electric shield would be considered the "defensive one" as it blocks bullets, but having Overheat be an innate ability on World on Fire inside a Fire Blast also similarly bolsters Ember's defense, making Electric Shield probably be a little less neat, as Fire Blast affects all of Ember's skills and Electric Shield only has a nice increase on crit weapons (they both get the +50% element damage, so I'm ignoring that for this case).

 

Mag:

I like all of these changes actually. But for Bullet Attractor, having it spread to enemies could possibly be annoying for allies, as they won't be able to target specific enemies if they're caught inside the bubble.

 

For example, say you cast Bullet Attractor on a Heavy Gunner. You punch him to next week and then it spreads to a Corrupted Crewmen. However, another Heavy Gunner just happens to walk into the Crewman's bubble. I suppose the bubble would stop the Gunner's bullets, but I've noticed that enemy fire shot through Bullet Attractor doesn't seem to hurt the Bubble'd enemy. (I tried testing that on Solo. Enemy bullets didn't seem to damage their allies for whatever reason. Maybe it works now or something).

 

Saryn:

I think that Venom should just have its duration be halved (or even just keep duration the same) and instead apply its damage 3-5 times faster than it currently does. This would make the damage add up faster  proc more often and just increase general usefulness of Venom on groups of enemies and even beefier single-targets.

 

I never really had too much of an issue with hitting the spores, but making them bigger wouldn't hurt.

 

As far as the other changes go, I agree with everything else. For all of the other frames too, I mean.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Otenko

[RealPandemonium]

Updated Nyx's section.  Sections for Rhino and Nova in the works.  

[Azawarau]

Because if crazy people can do it, so can I.

 

Excalibur:

 

 

 

 

Ember:

 

1 - fine

 

2 - fine

 

3 - 

 

4 - Make it a toggle.  The current version requires too many duration mods to be effective and results in wasted energy due to the inflexibility of keeping it up when it's needed.  Making it a toggle will give you on-demand extra dps when you need it at the cost of energy, which is the purpose of the ability. 

 

Ember could also use an increase in base sprint speed to help keep her safe and make 2/3/4 easier/more flexible to use.

 

 

Banshee:

 

1 - Make it a free action (casts with one hand even while sprinting/firing/reloading.) 

 

2 - Make it behave as an aura, the way Silence currently does, but recastable so we can reroll weak spots if .

we want.  Make weak spots a little easier to hit or spawn on more clearly designated areas.

 

3 - Make this a normal radial ability the way Sonar currently is.  When cast, it staggers enemies in range and deafens them permanently.  After the stagger ends, the enemies enter their unalert state (not aggro, vulnerable to stealth attacks and stealth melee damage multiplier, patrols slowly,) regardless of the current alert status of the current map tile or even the whole map.  Afflicted enemies can only be alerted if they personally spot a Tenno (they won't instantly know you're there the moment anyone in the room sees you.)

 

4 - Speed up the animation a bit.  Make its Blast procs actually knock down enemies.  Maybe increase the initial shockwave damage to give Banshee some teeth up close.

  

 

Nekros:

 

 

Mag:

 

1 - Instead of flinging everyone randomly, now gathers enemies toward the front of your crosshair and staggers them.

 

2 - No change

 

3 - Lower the cost or allow it to spread to other units if the afflicted unit dies before its duration is up.

 

4 - Make it ragdoll enemies all over the place the way Pull does currently.  Inflict a slow + puncture proc when they get up.

 

 

Frost:

 

1 - Make it the same as Ember's Fire Ball but with a freeze effect instead of a burn effect (always freeze on direct hit, 50% freeze chance on splash damage) and a smaller AOE.  Make the amount of damage taken before the Freeze is cancelled based on power strength or the enemy's level.  When the freeze ends, the enemy is afflicted with a Cold proc. 

 

2 - Either make it Frost's main damage ability or make it more CC-oriented, depending on what is done with 4.

 

3 - Make Frost's armor apply to its total HP after invincibility instead of adding a pittance of extra HP.  Make the slow apply everywhere in the globe instead of at a fixed radius.  

 

4 - Either make it a powerful CC ability or a powerful damage ability, depending on what is done with 2.  Either way, its radial nature should probably be eliminated and those showers of ice and snow in the animation should actually play a role in the ability.  This should be interesting and challenging to use, but rewarding.

 

 

Loki:

 

1 - Decoy has an invincible period similar to Frost's Snow Globe where it gains additional HP based on damage ignored.

 

2 - No change

 

3 - Switching with an enemy or decoy causes it to become the target of all nearby enemies for a few seconds.

 

4 - No change, but some variety in enemy melee equipment would be cool. 

 

 

 

Nyx:

 

1 - The mind-controlled unit is immune to friendly fire and stores all friendly damage inflicted, taking it all when the ability expires.  Mind controlled enemy has increased speed (by 10-30%.)

 

2 - Improved pathing and targeting.  Does not expire when it hits walls, but bounces off and seeks a new target (max 4 times before expiring.)  Increased proc chance.  Travels slowly when not aimed and quickly when aimed with the aim button (RMB for PC users by default.)

 

3 - Unchanged

 

4 - Revert to its pre-toggle state.  Recasting it while it is in use ends it early at no energy cost.

 

 

 

Hydroid:

 

1 - Unchanged

 

2 - Increase proc chance

 

3 - Allow us to move at a walking pace while the ability is in use so that we can slowly gather enemies in the pool.

 

4 - Allow it to spawn in the air again if it targets airborne enemies.  That allowed for some interesting setups and wasn't that weird, considering that the tentacles teleport in from another dimension.

 

 

Oberon:

 

1 - Unchanged

 

2 - Add a slow or a chance to proc Radiation/Blast to allow it to keep enemies on the carpet for longer and give it some offensive teeth.  Consider changing its damage type at least partially to make it effective VS Infested (and to a lesser extent, Corpus.)

 

3 - Unchanged for now

 

4 - Make the chance for enemies to drop HP orbs last for a few seconds after the ability ends instead of mandating the killing blow.

 

 

Saryn:

 

1 - Make spores easier to pop.

 

2 - Fix the buggy explosion hit mechanics, increase threat level/radius.

 

3 - Needs more power and more interesting mechanics.

 

4 - Eventually, it would be nice for this ability to interact more intuitively with duration mods but it is functional as it is.

 

 

Zephyr:

 

1 - Increase Proc chance.

 

2 - Fix the buggy hit detection, increase the falling distance damage coefficient, add a significant range coefficient.  

 

3 - Unchanged.

 

4 - Give the caster's elements priority when determining which element is used.

 

It would help if Zephyr's weird artificial air resistance was also toned down and its related bugs fixed.

 

 

 

 

Finished for now.  Critiques and discussion are welcome.  I left out some frames due to not having any specific changes in mind at the moment or because I don't think they need anything.  I could do those if readers bring up specific issues they have with one of those frames.

For banshee i dont think her 3 or 4 need a buff in that way

 

Her 4 already stops everything from happening

 

Her 3 is useful in missions where you arent stealthing but not too useful for actual stealth

 

Making enemies entirely unalerted is more like a confusion than a silence

 

Recastable too would make it the new Radial disarm

 

And you already know how i feel about sprint speed in general and on ember specifically so ill pass that

 

Nekros changes arent very large and dont really help his main issues much

 

Id like to see his powers work together more

 

Max range Frost snowglobe slow could be another nova issue but wed have to see how that rolls out

 

I still believe radial disarm is too powerful simply because of the other frame powers that can trivialize melee enemies

 

Adding a duration would help this

 

For Nyx someone suggested mind controlled enemies take damage after the effect ends

 

Her 4 is fine as is

 

I just hit a T 4 def with a friend and he was tanking wave 25 enemies for very long periods of time, waiting for 9-20k dmg, to kill them

 

Its still broken and reverting it will make it abusable again

 

Hydriod is an odd one

 

I believe strongly that mobile gathering/invi will be heavily abused

 

His 4 is actually fairly strong but sometimes tentacles span too closely or there arent enough of them to really CC well aside from where you plot to place them

Edited September 29, 2014 by Azawarau

[TaylorsContraction]

For Banshee's silence, I really just want it to silence all weapons fired inside its field. Regardless of where the enemies are, it would act like a silencer effectively applying the effect of "hush" to all weapons. Both for yourself and allies.

[MechaKnight]

In general, the opening post is very concise. Most of the tweaks are simple, some of them are complex only on the developer side--the gameplay adjustment wouldn't intimidate players so much. +1

[Draciusen]

Ash

2 - Now leaves a cloud of smoke (Same radius as stagger, scales) at the casting area that blinds and slows (Does not scale) enemies when casted, and continues to silence any sounds inside it (Same duration as the stealth, scales). Can only have 1 smokescreen out at a time, like Decoy.

 

There, utility so Ash provides for the team so people can't complain about him being 'bad' for high leveled content (Even though his damage scales extremely well, this is just so nobody has a valid reason to pick on him)

Edited September 30, 2014 by Draciusen

[Lord.Finster]

Make Nekros' Desecrate work for several seconds automtically while cast, or possibly make it into a toggle.

Spamming it is really unfun and not very rewarding (farmframe).

 

Alternatively, make it not affect mod drops or oxygen drops (survival). Only health and ammo can be gained from corpses.

 

That should put this ability in it's place as an emergency resupply.

 

Terrify needs bigger range.

[yles9056]

Mag:

3 - Make it a free action (casts with one hand even while sprinting/firing/reloading/aiming.)

Because this skill is supposed to work with guns, so it should not interrupt firing and aiming.

 

Saryn:

1 - Same as above.

3 - How about force toxin proc or increase status chance?

 

Loki:

3 - In addition to OP's idea, all enemy around Loki will be confused when he showed up

Because it's dangerous to teleport into groups of enemies. This should help a bit.

 

Zephyr:

2 - What if Dive Bomb triggers slam attack of your melee weapon but with 50% more range and damage?

[Sannidor]

Zephyr needs a serious buff, asap.

 

I play her only few days but already see major flaws and holes that could easily be filled...

 

1 -

 

This power should be a charged ability. Zephyr before the flight, crouches, gathers strength and creates a whirl around her with a push back effect. Activating while running/sliding results in directional flight.

 

If triggered in mid air, also a similar whirl would appear, slightly elevating Zephyr, draining some energy before the actual flight.

 

New air Melee moves that will come Soon^TM, will fit this change perfectly.

 

Damage on "flying through" enemies should be upgraded to balance her use in narrow corridors where she can't benefit from heights.

 

2 -

 

Range, range, more range. It has such a small radius I don't use it at all. Installing Heavy Impact makes more sense and I see no synergy when both - power and H.I. are in use.

 

It SHOULD be usable on the ground, having a short jump animation similar to the one activated from low hight. No more awkward stomps canceling even the early jump animation.

 

3 -

 

Creating a push back whirl at the start would be a good addition.

 

4 -

 

Enemies surviving air trip should stay on the ground longer and get up with "dizzy" effect.

 

 

I like Zephyr's mobility and bullet immunity is a nice bonus but for now she's the most awkward frame to use without decent benefits for mastering the controls. And her second ability is extremal weak/glitched.

[RealPandemonium]

Updated Nyx's section.  Sections for Rhino and Nova in the works.  

I ended up never getting to this but I will be playing Rhino and Nova in the coming days (hopefully I have time) to try to feel out what would be a good way to keep their feel without all the exploitable BS.  Part of me, though, feels like they should just be left alone so that lazy players can have their win buttons.  

 

I'm also contemplating adding  a section for Trinity but I don't have any strong feelings about her since the nerfs except that she is lacking in damage options (outside of the huge single target nukes on WOL+EV) and that Link feels unsatisfying outside of the point-man gameplay it promotes (which is fine; abilities don't have to be concretely defined.)  Link's damage return tends to be a frustrating trickle ,but making it scale with power strength would be too straightforward.  It needs some kind of mechanic to increase the damage returned without just being a mod check, IMO.

Edited December 4, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[XToxinator]

I think ember and frost 1st ability should stay there for 5seconds its like this

Ember: After casting fireball there will be a trail of fire and enimies step will gain fire damage and has a stun too

Frost: Same as ember, but instead has ice effect which slows and reduce enmies shield, armor and their speed and has a chnace enemies could ragdoll