Syndicates And Why They've Been Done Wrong.

[Dekallis]

I got all excited about syndicates but was utterly disappointed to find it was a generic clearly incomplete system.

 

let's start with the first and most obvious thing wrong here:every syndicate wants your money

 

Now, with the Perrin seqeunce this makes sense, As far as they're concerned money makes everything right in the universe. Other than them however  Red veil....and MAYBE steel meridian make sense to require some cash as they're both small groups that are effectively rebels. However, Suda? What's an AI going to do with all that cash? She aint building me a giant death machine and she's gotten along ok till I came along so I doubt she needs it for repairs or anything. So it makes no sense why she wants money like the rest of them. New loka? Humans are getting the shortest end of the stick in this universe you'd think they'd be willing to do just about anything to get a tenno on their side. Instead they hold their hands out and ask you give cash instead of dealing with the problems that they need shot/sliced/exploded/whatever. 

 

Instead of something interesting however you pay them....to go on life threatening missions and take on hit squads from other factions.........and they want you to pay THEM for that?

 

Now Imagine for a moment someone wants to hire you for a job and lets assume you even want the job. But then they say ''Now we just need some cash oh and sign this waver saying if you die we're not responsible and we can get you started right away!''  you'd be out of there right? You don't pay people to work for them they're supposed to pay you. This obvious detail seems to have been forgotten in the syndicate design. It's setup to make you work and pay out to your syndicate with basically nothing being given to the tenno in return. Top it off with the fact that working for any one syndicate is bound to incur the wrath of two others assuming you work for them long enough to reach any of the meaningful items you can eventually buy and this is hardly a beneficial arrangement for the tenno. You aren't really gaining anything for all your work other than more enemies.

 

 

This brings us to problem 2: Initiations shouldn't all be the same.

They shouldn't all be just handing over some credits and you're in they should be specific to the faction, That's a pretty lax recruitment strategy especially for rogue groups.Instead they should be relevant to the syndicate such as suda wanting you to go collect information from corpus archives, or loka wanting an infested colony cleansed of the infection, or steel meridian needing support defending supplies going to non-combatants or rescuing prisoners who don't deserve to rot in a grineer prison cell. Long story short an initiation should be a test of sorts a mission where they try you out and see what you can do and thus give you some rep to start with with that group. They should also be reflective of that group's intentions and give you more of a idea what they're about than just a brief monologue.

 

Problem 3: Getting from neutral to your first rank takes too long

So as things are right now, you pay out some cash and 'join' but....you don't get any missions from them until you reach the first title. This makes the process of getting started more tedious than necessary. Simply having a mission or two to work with while you're 'neutral' would go a long way to easing this initial problem. It makes no sense why once you've signed up you can't go do a mission for them.

 

Problem 4: Ranking up doesn't feel meaningful

You're a tenno, one of  the most powerful entities in known space yet these syndicates don't even have the decency to offer you a few free supplies or credits or.....anything? Keep in mind they're the ones who need you not the other way around. Syndicates should be paying out nicely for doing their missions at the very least. If not offering regular bonuses based on your standing. Ranking up should be like ranking up your mastery, where you have some singularly important task to accomplish to be recognized for the next rank and receiving some bonus for a successful rank up whereas failing would result in loss of reputation.

 

What kind of you ask?  How about these possible perks?

1. Unlock faction colors or a skin that uses their colors. Simple, purely cosmetic but it makes a lot of sense for you to unlock the ability to wear your syndicate colors and represent your affiliation. This should probably be a first title unlock because you're not really part of the gang unless you're wearing their colors.

 

2.a random freebie from the 'offerings' that unlocked on that tier call it a sample of the 'rewards' you've earned as well as a bundle of the syndicates specters. Honestly the least they could do is provide you with more free support units to use each time you rise in rank.

 

3.A re-usable bp to build your own specters in stacks of 5 or 10 for that faction so you no longer have to buy them. This would be a higher up reward say 3rd or 4th title. If you like your factions specters is going to be a real pain to keep buying them while you're trying to rank up this solves that problem.

 

4.A syndicate specific companion unit. this would be a tier 5 unlock. giving you a modable unit based on your faction for those of us who might want to hang out with a rebel grineer soldier, or an actual honest to goodness human being(honestly where ARE all the 'normal' humans?) instead of a drone or a oversized dog for a change. Plus a customizable repaintable moa would actually be kinda awesome...as long as its not the basic one.

 

Problem 5: Hit squads and negative rep

Let's say you decide you don't like your syndicate of choice anymore maybe some other syndicate got new weapon mods you want, maybe some actual plot emerged and you realized they didn't stand for what you thought they did, maybe you just want to experiment a little. Whatever the reason might be, once you've build up negative rep with a syndicate it's very hard to undo that. Obviously you can't take on missions for them to solve this but perhaps you could bribe your way out of being a target. This is the only time shelling out credits or resources to a syndicate really makes sense. A sacrifice to get them off your back and try to get back towards good standing.because there's only so many times the same hit squad can come after you before you go "Ok this is ridiculous stop trying to kill me now please.You're wasting my time and your people."

 

 

Lastly......Problem 6 with the syndicates.....well..not exactly a 'problem' but more like a glaring omission.

 

Why is there not a Lotus option? I'm pretty sure her network of tenno qualifies as a syndicate she takes no orders from anyone else(that we know of) and seems to change who her priority targets are on the basis of maintaining some balance. A lotus option would fit in nicely and give her changing allegiances that shift every few days so everyone can build lotus rep.

 

[Omega114]

Well we are all working for the Lotus in the end, she is the one who woke us up and saved us, however she leaves it to the Tenno to decide their own fate.

 

As for the money thing, what you rather give them? 5k creds or about 20 Orokin Cells? Credits is a resource that every player can acquire easily to get started down which ever path they choose, besides every faction will need credits to buy supplies and such. 

[Alighierian]

the problem as I see it: we're only giving things, and occassionally get something in return.

 

- we give some money and an item, we get the first sigil.

- we do random missions (all the while we get NOTHING but rep you can't even use)

- we give some more money and another item type, and we get the next rank. that's it. nothing else. Oh, you wanted a new sigil? see the next step.

- we give some reputation points for 'favours we did for them' and we get an item from their selection, but those rep points are gone.

- we do some more missions and stuff, including dalies, and yet all we get is more reputation points.

- we give some more and get the next rank. Just so we can give some more, and happily sacrifice some stuff to show how much you want to work for them.

 

Is it me or are we just HIRING AN EXTERNAL GROUP to do nothing but nod their heads and toss some rep coins at us peasants?

And we have to use that rep in order to get access to the special stuff that group makes (and kinda doesn't want to sell in the first place).

 

Like you said, Dekallis, there is a big difference between working for a syndicate and... whatever we're doing now.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Alighierian

[elixze]

Criticism is good and as for me, I also hope for a "change", which might put more interresting stuff. The current model it is now is like they are mocking us Tenno and giving little in Return as if we are a charity Groupe.

 

 

There really needs a change. But currently I am not fond of the way these syndicates manage Things. I could sacrifice something to gain something, but at least meanwhile we work for us give us something more rewarding? What are we iterns?

 

There should be a better rewarding system to keep us in each syndicate, I do not say make it easier, but make it so that the syndicates show that they need us and not vise versa.

[low1991]

If i'm allowed, i wish to eliminate all of those syndicate... 

Syn currency = Syn Xp....

To buy stuff, u use your Syn Xp..

*headache*

[Gwenwed]

Remember that the point is Tenno are trying to earn their favors, not the other way around.

And I'm not saying that's how it should be, but that's the current approach.

 

Why did you chose this particular syndicate?

Not because of its pretty colored suit.

Not because of its own principles (which it should be actually!)

Because of the shinnies at the end. Period. You want that Weapon Mod. Or whatever goody.

 

You want something out of them and you want to earn their favors. That's how the mechanic works.

Again, I'm not saying how it should be but how it is.

In the game's point of view, the events revolves around the Syndicates, not around the Tenno.

 

With this in mind, it's easy to understand how the mechanics were implemented.

Now if you feel the world should revolve around the Tenno, that's another story.

 

EDIT: typos

Edited October 30, 2014 by Gwenwed

[Educated_Beast]

I think DE should triple the amount of respect needed per level, decrease respect earned per mission, and remove all the over powered mods given freely for playing just thousands of hours. Its completely logical to lose all respect for a person that just risked one of his 4 revives each day for months to earn a new rank. It also makes since to pay your boss to let you continue to work for free. Geeze, you guys musta been raised on Earth.

You guys want to much fun, this is supposed to be work, not a game.

[/endsarcasm]

Edited October 30, 2014 by Educated_Beast

[MichaelSD]

Syndicates have no lore, no story and their missions are like any other. Why should anyone bother with them except the shiny things?

[TankHunter678]

Remember that the point is Tenno are trying to earn their favors, not the other way around.

And I'm not saying that's how it should be, but that's the current approach.

 

Why did you chose this particular syndicate?

Not because of its pretty colored suit.

Not because of its own principles (which it should be actually!)

Because of the shinnies at the end. Period. You want that Weapon Mod. Or whatever goody.

 

You want something out of them and you want to earn their favors. That's how the mechanic works.

Again, I'm not saying how it should be but how it is.

In the game's point of view, the events revolves around the Syndicates, not around the Tenno.

 

With this in mind, it's easy to understand how the mechanics were implemented.

Now if you feel the world should revolve around the Tenno, that's another story.

 

EDIT: typos

Actually I joined the Steel Meridian because I do like their philosophy of being protectors of the innocent.

 

I would love to fight alongside Meridian forces in protecting colonies, or cleansing colonies of infestation so people could live there once again.

 

However it does not feel like I am being rewarded for going "above and beyond the call of duty" when I am working for them. In addition the offering system makes no sense.

 

I should be gaining rep when I hand over resources I farmed because I am going above and beyond the call of duty in my support of my syndicate. I went out, on my own initiative, to get resources for them without them having to ask me to do so. I answered their call to duty, I stand ready to receive their orders to mobilize, however I am willing to give them resources from my supplies to aid them (lord knows I could use a place to dump enough alloy plates to build a freakin starship) beyond my willingness to join them in battling for their cause.

 

A rank should be a reward for continued dedication and going above and beyond the call of duty.

[Neocyberman]

I might have been happier with the current state of Syndicates if DE went out and said

 

"So this is our first pass and is meant to set the foundation for features and events"

 

And then detailed what they intend to add. Instead they have been very vague and admissions after the fact that much of the syndicate relations between each other and the costs for rank ups were not based really on anything makes it seem like the whole thing was rushed in its implementation or not ready for prime time.

 

How is it that the required tribute in terms of materials and reputation are so out of touch with the amount that can be gained?

 

Why is it that "Wiping away the progress players gain without any sense of progression other than a title in exchange for all measurable progress" was seen as a proper exchange when on the last dev streams DE was clear that they wanted to move away from quote "Endless grind"?

 

Doesnt DE have back end statistics to better understand how the average player gains faction XP?

[hijinks_the_turtle]

I might have been happier with the current state of Syndicates if DE went out and said

 

"So this is our first pass and is meant to set the foundation for features and events"

 

And then detailed what they intend to add. Instead they have been very vague and admissions after the fact that much of the syndicate relations between each other and the costs for rank ups were not based really on anything makes it seem like the whole thing was rushed in its implementation or not ready for prime time.

 

How is it that the required tribute in terms of materials and reputation are so out of touch with the amount that can be gained?

 

Why is it that "Wiping away the progress players gain without any sense of progression other than a title in exchange for all measurable progress" was seen as a proper exchange when on the last dev streams DE was clear that they wanted to move away from quote "Endless grind"?

 

Doesnt DE have back end statistics to better understand how the average player gains faction XP?

Not to mention, they've not gone into these threads and say anything at all about this feedback.

[Neocyberman]

Not to mention, they've not gone into these threads and say anything at all about this feedback.

Man is that the worst.

 

Its always minor comments not actually addressing the criticism and it makes me feel as if they don't go through these threads or have people to do so. Like we are all beating dead horses here forever.

 

Someone was discussing this in another thread, that even in dev streams the only things that are brought up are questions and feedback from the dev stream thread itself.

[Educated_Beast]

Someone was discussing this in another thread, that even in dev streams the only things that are brought up are questions and feedback from the dev stream thread itself.

 

Then the dev stream must be bombarded with these concerns

[superbot34]

for the money issue, your investing in their cause. remember, they aren't fighting for you they accept your support.

[DSpite]

You have all done how many missions for the Lotus, and she has never given you anything and you complain NOW? Pftt.

 

Also, if you got missions instantly, you would be able to get missions from 4 Syndicates at the same time as you always get points for 2 and stay at zero on the others, so technically, slowly, you can get 4 Syndicates out of 6 to like you. Grind on another account if you really want the stuff from the other 2 THAT badly to possibly incur the wrath of the Alt Accounts Supervisor.

 

Took me months of work to get a single faction in EvE Online stop charging me fees at Stations for reprocessing modules, then they nerfed the stations and nerfed the reprocessing skills, wasting all that effort.

 

You people have it easy. DE is practically holding you hand and asking you if everything is alright and would you like some nice lemon tea and a sit down.

 

You big babies.

[Zeroxin]

Solution

 

1. Remove syndicate ranks

 

FIXED!

[Vadrigos]

Well we are all working for the Lotus in the end, she is the one who woke us up and saved us, however she leaves it to the Tenno to decide their own fate.

 

As for the money thing, what you rather give them? 5k creds or about 20 Orokin Cells? Credits is a resource that every player can acquire easily to get started down which ever path they choose, besides every faction will need credits to buy supplies and such. 

How about the billions of common resources? Or better yet, the useless clantech that's building up in our inventories?

[Spechtre]

This game is in beta, syndicates are in beta. Changes and additions will be made, devs have mentioned this. Nothing is concrete at this point.

[YashiroSora]

I agree with all points of the OP, to even earn a 'reward' of getting the mod in there, is a mile-long grind, and yes, i do feel like i'm paying to work for them. This needs to be changed.

[Davoodoo]

This game is in beta, syndicates are in beta. Changes and additions will be made, devs have mentioned this. Nothing is concrete at this point.

I can tell what changes and additions will be, more rewards, higher rep costs and 2 extra ranks requiring even more rep.

[Dekallis]

You have all done how many missions for the Lotus, and she has never given you anything and you complain NOW? Pftt.

 

Also, if you got missions instantly, you would be able to get missions from 4 Syndicates at the same time as you always get points for 2 and stay at zero on the others, so technically, slowly, you can get 4 Syndicates out of 6 to like you. Grind on another account if you really want the stuff from the other 2 THAT badly to possibly incur the wrath of the Alt Accounts Supervisor.

 

Took me months of work to get a single faction in EvE Online stop charging me fees at Stations for reprocessing modules, then they nerfed the stations and nerfed the reprocessing skills, wasting all that effort.

 

You people have it easy. DE is practically holding you hand and asking you if everything is alright and would you like some nice lemon tea and a sit down.

 

You big babies.

 

 

There's a lot of things wrong here. First Lotus actually gives a lot of stuff gifts from the lotus are a pretty regular thing, and my snipetron vandal still gets dusted off now and then. My Dex Furis are used alot. Both of those weapons were only obtained as gifts from Lotus. Second being able to do missions does not change how the point system works being able to rank up in 4 factions is a flaw in the system itself acknowledged by DE already. It has nothing to do with whether you have missions or not. Missions still apply the full reprecussions of allied/opposed/enemy rep. Though you may not see this on your end of mission screen if you aren't wearing that factions sigil when you do the mission. I tested this myself which is how i found you had to pay to get back from the first negative rank to get back to neutral as this caused my suda rep to drop from neutral to debris.

 

it costs a forma btw to go back to neutral and you still have negative 5k to work off instead of starting at 0 again unlike when you upgrade ranks and it resets to 0. So instead of having to through 5k points to get to the first title in this situation you would have to go through 10k

 

Third, your experience with EVE online counts for squat here since the people in charge of that game had no sense at all. If I recall isn't that the same game that charged people $60 for a purely cosmetic monocle....that nobody else could even see?

 

for the money issue, your investing in their cause. remember, they aren't fighting for you they accept your support.

 

There are many ways to show support. Cracking open your piggy bank is only one of them. Different factions should require different methods. As I mentioned paying makes perfect sense for perrin, but a suda who only cares about knowledge and nothing else has no use for your money. Red Veil and Meridian would probably prefer you do a mission to prove you are with them. Loka and arbiters are a bit vauge as to what they would actually need so perhaps paying is fine for them too. but all in all a little diversity would make things more interesting.

 

Remember that the point is Tenno are trying to earn their favors, not the other way around.

And I'm not saying that's how it should be, but that's the current approach.

 

Why did you chose this particular syndicate?

Not because of its pretty colored suit.

Not because of its own principles (which it should be actually!)

Because of the shinnies at the end. Period. You want that Weapon Mod. Or whatever goody.

 

You want something out of them and you want to earn their favors. That's how the mechanic works.

Again, I'm not saying how it should be but how it is.

In the game's point of view, the events revolves around the Syndicates, not around the Tenno.

 

With this in mind, it's easy to understand how the mechanics were implemented.

Now if you feel the world should revolve around the Tenno, that's another story.

 

EDIT: typos

 

That this system is backwards is exactly what I'm saying. People need to pony up resources for title 1, forma for title 2. a reactor or catalyst for title 3 a prime weapon part for title 4 and a prime warframe part for title 5.  It's just too random. there's no method or reason behind the costs. They don't even ask for parts related to frames or weapons they favor.  The second thing wrong here is that the fact you build up reputation and earn status within their faction presumably climbing to to upper echelons of their ranks yet receive only scraps in return.

 

Take Perrin for example a syndicate litterally run like a business. You reach the title of partner yet you receive no real support the syndicate does nothing for you despite that you're a partner in their business. At that point you're basically a co-owner yet you still have next to nothing to work with? Come on.

 

The unique weapon mods regardless of how powerful they may or may not be aren't going to be worth it because they're overly specific. Many weapons, especially sidearms have variants. For example Loka has a Furis mod, not Afuris, not DexFuris but furis. I know some people are praying the mod will work for both those variants but it probably won't and my reason for thinking this is that the arbiters have a specific burston prime mod. not burston. Which implies it won't work on it's lesser variant. This means any weapon with more than one variant needs a mod for each variant. I could be wrong and I sincerely hope I am. But if I'm not there's going to be some very disappointed skana prime, dex furis, and akbolto users who thought their weapons were getting some attention.

[AlphaHorseman]

Oh you got DE good on this one. I like you!