Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[Eremes]

i  did used shoulder swap a lot on the linked video. the first video had nothing of it, it was just a test video.

 

i just wish we had better backstab mechanic. id love run ludi again with more melee.

[JonSupernova]

Guys... 57 pages... And no one at DE is giving damn about stealth... This post started many months ago and still DE don't changed a thing about stealth... I also already posted some ideas for stealth on this thread but it is clear that DE will not move a finger about it... So if anyone can lock this thread it will be nice, since in the past few months since this thread was created DE didn't even thought about it for too long and just slap some non-reliable stealth system on the game...

 

Edit: Not trying to be rude, just saying that the thread already gave everything it could give... But no one on the higher ranks of DE gives a damn about it (It became crystal clear after the first three months after stealth was introduced and they don't try to get it better).

 

Well have you ever considered this? We are on page 57, right? That's a lot of comments/ideas to shift through from a lot of players. Granted, DE is probably working on a lot right now with possible bugs, new ideas already in place and more. So is this thread finished, it could be. Even so, if DE wasn't listening, why would they keep this stealth thread open. For all you know, they do look at this thread trying to piece together ideas on how to improve the stealth aspect. Hence why this thread is still open.

[NummiNammi]

You can knock off number five: Loki and Ash's invisibility do make sentinels invisible. (I love Loki now!!)

 

I don't agree with having more kills and less xp bonus from a mission. I mean if I killed everyone in stealth I should still be in stealth and thus getting the xp bonus.

 

And also they should try and give new guns through these kind of bonuses in the end. This would give people even more thoughts towards stealth gameplay.

Edited November 16, 2013 by NummiNammi

[Syzodia]

Something I just thought about (and probably mentioned before):

 

Since enemies aren't infinitely spawning in an unalerted mission, how about that enemies have either better drops or improved drop rates for rarer stuff when stealth killed?

By stealth kill, i don't mean just the sneak attack mechanic, I mean anything that satisfies the "Kill 10 enemies unalerted" challenge.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Since enemies aren't infinitely spawning in an unalerted mission, how about that enemies have either better drops or improved drop rates for rarer stuff when stealth killed?

 

Some people were against better rewards for stealth play because according to them it would send the information to players that stealth was the optimal way to play. The fact remains, however, that stealth play has to be rewarded better in some way to make up for the lower frequency of kills and loot, or the opposite will hold through, namely player not feeling rewarded enough to play in an "inferior" way.

 

A compromise was suggested(at least that's what I suggested it once) to allow players to pickpocket loot from unaltered enemies by sneaking up to them and pressing the use key.

 

On another note, I want to mention to all stealth enthusiasts that DE apparently is in favor of compensating stealth play better than normal play. In the last live stream, Steve explained that scanning enemies for your Tennodex will yield double the amount of affinity as a scan of an alerted enemy. I guess that's good news for us, even though it's just little tidbit of information. At this point, we'll grasp at any stealth related straws, am I right? :P

[Syzodia]

On another note, I want to mention to all stealth enthusiasts that DE apparently is in favor of compensating stealth play better than normal play. In the last live stream, Steve explained that scanning enemies for your Tennodex will yield double the amount of affinity as a scan of an alerted enemy. I guess that's good news for us, even though it's just little tidbit of information. At this point, we'll grasp at any stealth related straws, am I right? :P

But that affinity gain goes.....where?

Just the warframe like affinity orbs?

-sigh-

[AuroraSonicBoom]

But that affinity gain goes.....where?

Just the warframe like affinity orbs?

-sigh-

 

In this case, it's the sentiment that counts. DE is willing to reward stealth play better because it takes longer, implying that they are willing to increase the rewards for steal players in other situations as well.

[Syzodia]

In this case, it's the sentiment that counts. DE is willing to reward stealth play better because it takes longer, implying that they are willing to increase the rewards for steal players in other situations as well.

I'll give you that,

but the question still holds.

 

Oh well guess we'll find out.

[_Chaser]

insta kill for stealth kills is a must.

[Probta16]

U11 is around the corner, maybe in December they start to plan some stealth changes. So, real stealth changes only next year since they will have to do a lot of fixes for U11 content.

 

Well, better late than never.

[Styros]

Crysis is probably the closest model they could shoot for for a stealth/action blend, where both approaches are fun but you don't feel like level and game design is biased in favor of one or the other. I'm confident they're looking at all the different styles of stealth in other famous games but it would be pretty cool to hear their debate over how to implement it.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

So with the ability to activate gear items with the single press of a key, turning them basically our secondary, customizable general ability pool, it's reasonable to start suggesting gear items that would enhance stealth play in the future.

 

Examples:

 

Nanospore bombs/grenades that would have cause the same effect on affected enemies as Ash's smoke screen, allowing players for an easy stealth kill.

Mines: Invisible traps that trigger when enemies pass near them.

Distraction Items that can be thrown to make the enemy look into a different direction.

[dandin3]

no stalker if not detected .. will be good 2

[RyanGo]

just going to dump the things on my mind here. A random's observations and suggestions on stealth

But first I'd like to preface by saying that the big map option (combined with enemy radar) along with the codex are quite possibly the greatest stealth additions in the entire game because they let you know where enemies are at any time.

My only gripe is that once you scan an enemy you can't see them through walls anymore (can't we just make then a different color...?)

Also Big map shows every single tile, and can get a little obtrusive near the end of the mission.

With that out of the way:

I know a lot of people have been asking for a way to disable the alarm panels or else disable the alarm in case an enemy manages to pull it off. in regards to the second one I thought it might be cool if you have a 1-2times use gear item that you can use on a panel to turn off the alarm so enemies go back to being unalerted. Even if the alarm hasn't been tripped it could still be used for enemies that heard gunshots from the last tile.

also weapons that can dissolve bodies quickly would be very useful so enemies do not notice them(because there will be nothing to notice). If this could be implemented as a mod, that would be awesome. (the downside is it kind of ruins Nekros's desecrate ability even more.) I'm thinking something like shadow-kill from Dishonored. alternatively Banshee's silence has more or less the same effect.

for another thing I've noticed that solo-stealth is much easier than team stealth, because in the event that you make a mistake, there's less people to hush up than if the enemy number scaled for 2 people (twice to people to kill in even less time before someone hits the alarm). However, there are relatively few benefits from having more than one person.

TLDR:

big map and codex are awesome, see above for tweaks

un-alarming gear

dissolve bodies/shadow kill

solo stealth is best :(

thanks for reading, enjoy your day.

Edited November 23, 2013 by RyanGo

[Probta16]

Codex ruined my stealth runs. I addicted to it and can't avoid to use.

 

I don't like much Codex because it make stealth even more easy. But for the actual stealth situation, the codex is good. It is a tool that help us to go faster in a stealth that are not worth play style. But soon it can become a problem for the challenge of stealth runs.

 

I don't like the gear system for the base of the stealth. It should be optional, adding cool stuff for your stealth run and just it.

[Hella_Jeff]

Some suggestions I've been musing on:

1) First and foremost, stealth gameplay should be co-op viable.
This is a primarily cooperative multiplayer game. players should ideally be able to mix-and-match playstyles alongside each other. As it is now, it's either: all players stealth or no players stealth. If I play a straightforward gunslinger, my friend should be able to play a shifty-eyed rogue alongside me. I'm not saying it should be mindlessly easy, and it should require some measure of coordination (as any co-op gameplay should), but it should be possible to cooperate with players of other playstyles without changing fundamental aspects of your approach.

 

Players should have options that allow them to use elements of their playstyle to supplement their partner(s)'s or vice versa (for example, a run n' gunner engaging enemies and serving as a distraction for the stealth player to slip around back and wreak havoc on the opponent's exposed backs or stealth players assassinating key enemies before the engagement begins). This is, I think, essential to stealth gameplay working properly and leads me to point...

2) Stealth-oriented alternative pathways.
Things like ventilation systems, underneath the floor-gratings, things of that nature. You know, standard stealth-game fare. Instead of having to navigate through enemy-infested walkways, you can take alternative routes in shady, high up places or crawl underneath the floor to help avoid detection (though, ideally, you should still have to do so with finesse; choosing the right moment to move from the shadows or pop out of the floor).

 

Think Batman: Arkham series (in concept, at least). In addition, vantage points and things of that nature would allow for more advanced stealth gameplay featuring pre-emptive scouting before choosing your action. This could be complimented by point...

3) Integration of parkour/enhanced movement into elements of stealth.
Options for the player to utilize parkour or other movement systems to enhance their attempts to stealth. They could add tools like: a grappling hook for reaching high-up vantage points or alternative routes that would go in, say, the secondary weapon slot; tools for opening certain otherwise unopenable grates, a mark+track system for use in scouting. Imagine squeezing through pipes in the wall, trying to stay hidden from enemy cone of vision as you scout them out or press forward.

 

They also need some manner of hugging the wall or otherwise more effectively hiding around corners to prevent situations in which you thought you were properly hidden until the enemy rounded the corner and saw you anyway.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[SFkenny]

By the way, the Prova needs a new stealth attack animation. Considering it's a glorified Corpus taser, impaling someone with it in a stealth attack animation doesn't really make sense.

[Probta16]

By the way, the Prova needs a new stealth attack animation. Considering it's a glorified Corpus taser, impaling someone with it in a stealth attack animation doesn't really make sense.

I agree. Do you have any idea for the new animation?

[SFkenny]

Hit the back of the legs of the unit with the Prova, shocking them to their knees, then either kicking them to the ground and curb-stomping them or break their neck.

[ZBreaker]

Could use a cover and peaking system. As well as vents and other areas that allow for a more stealthy approach.

[Brilig]

Figured I would add my own post on adding stealth, and strategy into Warframe. Having looked through the thread, it seems like most of these ideas have already been mentioned in one form or another. Still figured I would post what I have. If you have already mentioned something I post here consider this support for your idea.

:)

So here are a couple of ideas to bounce around.

To start off the strategic depth idea, I’d like to look at the game from the AI’s perspective. A one too four man Tenno team has invaded their star ship/base undetected. Command is made aware of said Tenno team once an alarm is tripped. At that point what would they do?

· Lock the ship/base down. (Doors/shields.)

· Send crew to their stations.

· Have security teams set up at choke points.

· Reinforce important areas.(bridge/engineering/precious cargo/armory/command/etc.)

· Send teams to sweep the area, and find the intruders.

So let’s lock all the doors once an alarm gets tripped. Then spawn barricades with security teams in various rooms. Have the objective reinforced with more/heavier units. Have roaming security teams spawn in various rooms just like what normally happens. That should encourage people to try and stay stealthy, and keep from being detected for as long as possible.

Have the units at a barricade stay with their barricade, and defend it. Let them use grenades and suppressing fire as normal, but have them hold against assault while their reinforcements come in. This could open up options for crew served weapons, flanking teams, shield barriers, and AI that can take advantage of all of it.

Keep security teams spawning at regular intervals once an alarm has been triggered. Every time the Tenno take on a barricade, or a roving security team someone should have reported the Tennos location. Spawn security teams to reinforce the group reporting contact with the attacking Tenno.

Now we take a look at things from the Tennos perspective. They just infiltrated an enemy ship/base, and there are only one too four of them VS the hundreds of enemies on board. Being detected would be bad since even they have trouble taking on that many. So stealth is key, and they will need ways to stay stealthy. Taking the enemy down silently, and without being seen is very ninja. But they are in the middle of a well lit star ship/base so they will need some help practicing the art of invisibility.

Give all of the Tenno a predator like stealth effect while moving slowly, or crouched to reduce the range at which they can be seen. Make hiding in shadows lower your visibility even further. (Loki, and ash can still have perfect invisibility powers.) I believe you already have a system in place for sound levels alerting enemies, which is good. Add in a visibility indicator a la Thief/Splinter cell, and stealth options start looking good. Backstab instant kills,(except for heavies/bosses) and powerful melee weapons for silent take downs will be essential to remaining undetected. A special melee attack that can break an enemies gun would be helpful for taking on Heavy enemies.

Once detected you can still try and sneak, but it will be harder with security teams looking for you. However with some skill, even in combat you should be able to run out, and hack someone down then disappear into the shadows to strike again. Or shoot someone down then fade away to take up another position.

Stealth alone isn’t all a ninja is known for. Misdirection, and skillful use of your environment will help even any odds. So now lets take a look at hacking a consol. There are many options with hacking, and I will try and cover a few. The basic idea is that when you hack a consol you will have a list of options to choose from. Depending on your hacking ability (or mods) you can only choose a certain amount.

· Hack into a consol to shut lights off in an room for (X) minutes, or seconds.

· Hack to shut, or open doors in an room. Lock enemies on the other side, or open up an alternate route.

· Hack to shut down communications for a room. So no one inside can report an attack.

· Hack a consol to cancel a recently raised alarm. Have to hack before reinforcements arrive.

· Hack a consol, and create false reports of Tenno in other parts of the ship to reduce the number of enemies in roving, and reinforcement spawns.

· Hack a consol, and trigger fire containment response. All doors to the room shut, and will not open.(unless hacked) Also have fire retardant chemicals pumped in that create a visibility reducing haze to disorients the defenders. Could be useful for cutting of a barricade from reinforcements while you’re taking it down.

· Hack a consol to change the atmosphere, and create a heavy fog that makes you harder to see.

· Hack communications on a heavy unit after you’ve taken out a barricade, and create a false report that your Tenno were wiped out. Let it reset the alert conditions for (X) minutes so you can go back to sneaking around.

· Hack turrets/shield turrets in a room. Disable them or have them help you out.

That’s about it for now. Hope ya’ll like the ideas.

Edit: Actually one more thing. Instead of just powerful melee weapons try a 2x damage bonus for your first shot on any in alerted enemy. Make it a 3x if you hit them in the back. That would encourage the use of quiet, and silenced weapons. This would not replace backstab insta kills.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Brilig

[Shadowcrusnik]

Figured I would add my own post on adding stealth, and strategy into Warframe. Having looked through the thread, it seems like most of these ideas have already been mentioned in one form or another. Still figured I would post what I have. If you have already mentioned something I post here consider this support for your idea.

:)

So here are a couple of ideas to bounce around.

To start off the strategic depth idea, I’d like to look at the game from the AI’s perspective. A one too four man Tenno team has invaded their star ship/base undetected. Command is made aware of said Tenno team once an alarm is tripped. At that point what would they do?

· Lock the ship/base down. (Doors/shields.)

· Send crew to their stations.

· Have security teams set up at choke points.

· Reinforce important areas.(bridge/engineering/precious cargo/armory/command/etc.)

· Send teams to sweep the area, and find the intruders.

So let’s lock all the doors once an alarm gets tripped. Then spawn barricades with security teams in various rooms. Have the objective reinforced with more/heavier units. Have roaming security teams spawn in various rooms just like what normally happens. That should encourage people to try and stay stealthy, and keep from being detected for as long as possible.

Have the units at a barricade stay with their barricade, and defend it. Let them use grenades and suppressing fire as normal, but have them hold against assault while their reinforcements come in. This could open up options for crew served weapons, flanking teams, shield barriers, and AI that can take advantage of all of it.

Keep security teams spawning at regular intervals once an alarm has been triggered. Every time the Tenno take on a barricade, or a roving security team someone should have reported the Tennos location. Spawn security teams to reinforce the group reporting contact with the attacking Tenno.

Now we take a look at things from the Tennos perspective. They just infiltrated an enemy ship/base, and there are only one too four of them VS the hundreds of enemies on board. Being detected would be bad since even they have trouble taking on that many. So stealth is key, and they will need ways to stay stealthy. Taking the enemy down silently, and without being seen is very ninja. But they are in the middle of a well lit star ship/base so they will need some help practicing the art of invisibility.

Give all of the Tenno a predator like stealth effect while moving slowly, or crouched to reduce the range at which they can be seen. Make hiding in shadows lower your visibility even further. (Loki, and ash can still have perfect invisibility powers.) I believe you already have a system in place for sound levels alerting enemies, which is good. Add in a visibility indicator a la Thief/Splinter cell, and stealth options start looking good. Backstab instant kills,(except for heavies/bosses) and powerful melee weapons for silent take downs will be essential to remaining undetected. A special melee attack that can break an enemies gun would be helpful for taking on Heavy enemies.

Once detected you can still try and sneak, but it will be harder with security teams looking for you. However with some skill, even in combat you should be able to run out, and hack someone down then disappear into the shadows to strike again. Or shoot someone down then fade away to take up another position.

Stealth alone isn’t all a ninja is known for. Misdirection, and skillful use of your environment will help even any odds. So now lets take a look at hacking a consol. There are many options with hacking, and I will try and cover a few. The basic idea is that when you hack a consol you will have a list of options to choose from. Depending on your hacking ability (or mods) you can only choose a certain amount.

· Hack into a consol to shut lights off in an room for (X) minutes, or seconds.

· Hack to shut, or open doors in an room. Lock enemies on the other side, or open up an alternate route.

· Hack to shut down communications for a room. So no one inside can report an attack.

· Hack a consol to cancel a recently raised alarm. Have to hack before reinforcements arrive.

· Hack a consol, and create false reports of Tenno in other parts of the ship to reduce the number of enemies in roving, and reinforcement spawns.

· Hack a consol, and trigger fire containment response. All doors to the room shut, and will not open.(unless hacked) Also have fire retardant chemicals pumped in that create a visibility reducing haze to disorients the defenders. Could be useful for cutting of a barricade from reinforcements while you’re taking it down.

· Hack a consol to change the atmosphere, and create a heavy fog that makes you harder to see.

· Hack communications on a heavy unit after you’ve taken out a barricade, and create a false report that your Tenno were wiped out. Let it reset the alert conditions for (X) minutes so you can go back to sneaking around.

· Hack turrets/shield turrets in a room. Disable them or have them help you out.

That’s about it for now. Hope ya’ll like the ideas.

Edit: Actually one more thing. Instead of just powerful melee weapons try a 2x damage bonus for your first shot on any in alerted enemy. Make it a 3x if you hit them in the back. That would encourage the use of quiet, and silenced weapons. This would not replace backstab insta kills.

 

There is not enough this in the universe to this this.

[kebra]

All I want actually is to enemies to stop spawning behind me in a room completely closed and empty (triple checked)... That would be a start. Actually mobs appears like bubbles in champagne.

Edited November 30, 2013 by kebra

[Sonoka]

Not sure if it's been said already, but higher level enemies need better AI to balance out stealth instakills.

[Artif3x]

I don't agree with more bonus XP for a stealth approach, it suggests that stealth is the "correct" way to play. I do agree with making stealth more viable though, but don't make it so stealth is the hands down statistically best approach.

I especially agree with point #6, it would be a great motivator for stealth, but in that case there should be an XP bonus to balance out what you'd lose for not fighting waves of enemies.

 

Not at all. Remember that stealth takes far more time than a normal, guns-blazing run. I've heard figures of people taking over an hour to complete a single map. That same map takes less than five minutes on a speed run. The amount of XP you're gaining per time should be about the same, or even a little higher for dealing with the increased risk of playing solo (or not) and trying to remain undetected.