Lets Nerf The Nerf On Synoid Gammacor

[Dead_Rabbits]

i don't understand why he relies too much on his sidearm, unless ofcourse his primary and melee sucks balls.

Side arms have always over shadowed primaries, always.

[Tenno-nymous]

Side arms have always over shadowed primaries, always.

Then i guess my ammo-hog amprex can slap the hell out of his easynoid gammacor.

[Draciusen]

Side arms have always over shadowed primaries, always.

 

It's true, but kind of implying that primaries are inferior to secondaries.

Quite honestly the difference is almost unnoticeable considering a lot of weapons in both categories have enough firepower to kill armies before even reloading. It's like saying one sun is brighter than another, when staring at both will burn your eyes regardless.

[Redhux]

The Synoid is awful right now. Just R.I.P "Thing".

 

 

Disappointing.

 

 

Damage nerf?  Ok.

 

Ammo stupidity?  Nope.

[Vargras]

The Synoid is awful right now. Just R.I.P "Thing".

 

 

Disappointing.

 

 

Damage nerf?  Ok.

 

Ammo stupidity?  Nope.

The damage is seriously unchanged though. The math is different, but it's the exact same.

 

I honestly find it hilarious how many people are still missing this.

[LazyKnight]

The damage is seriously unchanged though. The math is different, but it's the exact same.

 

I honestly find it hilarious how many people are still missing this.

The DPS is unchanged, the damage was lowered from 210 to 28 and fire rate from 2 to 15.

 

The damage is changed, I am getting just as annoyed when people equate damage in a second as a weapon damage, it's not a blasted semi that use 15 ammo per trigger pull.

Edited March 27, 2015 by LazyKnight

[SquirmyBurrito]

Start using Ammo Mutation, or heaven forbid, swap to another weapon while you gather up ammo for it. This is not a problem limited to the Synoid Gammacor, and yet people keep trying to treat it like it is -- almost every single full-auto secondary is notoriously ammo-hungry. You don't really see complaints about them.

 

You're aware that both the Gammacor and Synoid Gammacor were complete garbage on release, right? And they were buffed too far?

 

This is not "how PWE works". Overbuffing is common and is not limited to this game.

 

How about you don't assume that I'm stupid? I'm already using one and it still runs out ridiculously fast. Have you actually been using the damn thing since it was nerfed? I have been using it as much as possible post nerf with an ammo mutator (which lowers the DPS since it takes a slot formerly held by a dps modifying mod). The big problem is that whereas those other weapons were released terrible and never fixed. The SG was released terrible (in a different way), buffed, and then nerfed into its current state. People no longer complain about those other weapons because they always get the same response from people like you "use an ammo mutation mod". I find it funny how for all this community's complaints about DE and their band-aid mods, you people are more than okay with suggesting that people attempt to fix a problem by using one such band-aid mod.

 

Yes. I disagree that they were buffed too far.

 

Overbuffing is not common in this game.

 

Check that burst DPS damage, it's beastly. And a ammo mutation does a great job, doesn't grant you infinite amo but makes it very usable.

 

Burst DPS is unrealistic. Sustained DPS is more realistic and adding an ammo mutator (which I already have equipped!) lowers the DPS even further. I have an ammo mutator on but it still runs out incredibly fast. This is because despite the dps being the same as before, the total bullet count and magazine size wasn't buffed to compensate. So you burn through more bullets just to output the same DPS and thus run out far faster.

 

How was being able to hold the fire button for 32.5 full seconds balanced?

 

How was it not balanced? Being ammo efficient does not inherently = unbalanced. In your opinion 32.5 seconds per magazine is unbalanced, but ~40 seconds from full to completely empty isn't?

 

The damage is seriously unchanged though. The math is different, but it's the exact same.

 

I honestly find it hilarious how many people are still missing this.

 

The DPS is unchanged, the DAMAGE was nerfed into the ground. It isn't exactly the same. Same DPS+More bullets to kill enemy+unchanged ammo pool= you run out of ammo far faster and the weapon is worse as a result.

 

I honestly find it hilarious how many people are still missing this.

Edited March 27, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Vargras]

The DPS is unchanged, the damage was lowered from 210 to 28 and fire rate from 2 to 15.

 

The damage is changed, I am getting just as annoyed when people equate damage in a second as a weapon damage, it's not a blasted semi that use 15 ammo per trigger pull.

The actual damage value isn't going to matter in gameplay. If you run around with an unmodded Synoid Gammacor and fire it briefly, you're not going to get just 28 damage -- it's going to be the full 210.

 

Welcome to automatic weapons.

[LazyKnight]

The actual damage value isn't going to matter in gameplay. If you run around with an unmodded Synoid Gammacor and fire it briefly, you're not going to get just 28 damage -- it's going to be the full 210.

 

Welcome to automatic weapons.

That is not even remotely true, wow are you really this clueless? Tap-fire it, try it. 

[Reidmaster]

"Lets nerf the nerf on Synoid Gammacor."

 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Reidmaster

[Vargras]

That is not even remotely true, wow are you really this clueless? Tap-fire it, try it. 

I have.

 

I sure don't get 28 damage with no mods.

[shut]

How about you don't assume that I'm stupid? I'm already using one and it still runs out ridiculously fast. Have you actually been using the damn thing since it was nerfed? I have been using it as much as possible post nerf with an ammo mutator (which lowers the DPS since it takes a slot formerly held by a dps modifying mod).

 

Dude, I'm running a zero-forma build on my Synoid and it's using a rank 3/5 Pistol Ammo Mutation mod and has a completely empty mod slot. I'm doing fine with both ammo and damage. It's obviously not going to be slaying level 80 heavies without a bit more forma investment, but for the amount of effort I put into modding it (i.e. none), it's still stronger than half of the secondaries in my arsenal while being easier to use and restoring my energy almost nonstop. I have not used a single other secondary since U16 hit because I have not needed to. My aim sucks, and I regularly use sweeping motions to take out trash mobs, so this is really saying something.

 

The Synoid is fine. Just take off your Gunslinger + Anemic Agility combo, slap on a single mutation mod, stop holding M1 like it's an Opticor or something, and you should be good to go.

Edited March 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[HandsomeSorcerer]

Enraging a great part of the community, synoid gammacor has been heavily nerfed recently, and I mean HEAVILY.

While its base damage is not affected, its ammo pool is, making it consume ammo at a frightening speed.

Actually its ammo consumption is so high that you can barely play it without a nekros in your team or ammo restores.

Its range is already very limited giving it already a heavy drawback.

 

 

I think the ammo consumption should be reverted to around 3.5-4.5x instead of 7.5. make it usable again.

Because vakyor marelok or brakk are not so different, however those didnt get a nerf.

(and are a hundred times more ammo eficient)

I mean even the rakta ballistica is a beast now, leave synoid alone.

 

 

I will prepare for the impact of many flame.

 

See OP, you got gunned down from around 10 or so people, the nerf squad I call them. The only thing that flies in the feedback section are nerf threads and arbitrary praises for some probably useless weapon, T

 

My suggestion, get a quanta or a phage or stop playing altogether. Dont worry, the nerf squad wiill  want to nerf  all the good weapons in the game, but they are quite satisfied with destroying one weapon in a period of time,

 

I mean, just be careful, its more than likely the next nerfed weapons will be the scindo prime, rakta, vaykor, opticor, amprex and maybe quanta, I mean, they even nerfed the macro possibility of the akbolto.

 

It really depends on whats the most used meta gun is.

 

Remember:

 

Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

Edited March 27, 2015 by HandsomeSorcerer

[LazyKnight]

I have.

 

I sure don't get 28 damage with no mods.

Here have a pic.

 

One bullet used on a grineer

 

 

[Bobtm]

 And instead of nerfing ANY of these, they chose to nerf the one thing that allows players to actually use their weapon reliably for any real length of time? I wouldn't mind a damage nerf, but it isn't necessary. Revert the ammo consumption nerf, and instead nerf its reload speed, magazine size, and give it beam wobble. Those three combined with its limited range (which is a drawback outside the smaller tilesets contrary to popular nerf-caller belief).

 

Didn't need the lightly alluded to pseudo-hostility there at the end, but I don't disagree with your general idea.  I'm all for anti-usability buffs if folks want something with obscene damaging capabilities.  That's something I consider to be a fair trade-off for a set of equipment which more or less capitalizes on burst damage over all else.

 

But do take a step back and realize what kind of a reload speed you'll be realistically "condemning" yourself to with this notion potentially.  To jump around a bit, the beam wiggle part is the odd man out on this idea, it's a short-ish range weapon.  Unless the wiggle implemented is fairly sharp in possible angles, it won't make a large difference in the grand scheme of things.  On the other hand, if it's too harsh, then the weapon will be wholly unreliable which is something you absolutely don't want on a continuous weapon, given how their damage calculates.  Because of that, I'm going to set aside the beam wiggle notion here.  Now note, I'm not saying it's bad, or wrong, it's just more difficult to think on when we're speaking in hypotheticals.

 

So to get back on point here, we've got a hit to reload speed, and then a drawback in magazine capacity.  In its original state, the SG could fire for a loooooooon darn time pretty well.  Rather than go with direct numbers on magazine size, we'll go with "time spent firing" as that's just easier to think with for comparison's sake.  What we're going to be looking at here is uptime versus downtime on the weapon.  As with anything, these sorts of comparisons are looked at "in a bubble" in the initial stages to simplify the issue.  Tackling all the layers of weapon balance at once is just too nuts even for a longwinded windbag like me, so taking a metered approach works better.

 

To phrase it as a question;  What kind of uptime is "appropriate" for a weapon that has damage dealing capabilities that effectively exceed that of all other weapons by +100% or greater?

 

A lot of the following stuff is going to be general guestimations based on quick math I'm doing in my head.  Thusly, allow for mistakes.  I'm just feeling a bit too lazy to sit down and start doing math this late in the night.  (All this time spent thinking and I wonder sometimes why I make so little true progress in Warframe as of late).

 

For the sake of this whole ordeal, mods will be taken into account to affect the charge speed of the bows noted.  Also we'll do a few takes on the Vectis, one with and one without Fast Hands (Was that one that got primed?  My memory is being hazy on that front.) along with one noting how people who don't know how to play use the Vectis.

 

We'll jump straight to spike damage tools here, seeing as restricters to the SG's magazine and reload speeds would shoehorn it into that realm more readily.  Right on trend here, we'll go to the "King of Weapons" the Dread.  Ignoring its other facets for now, we'll just think on its effective "uptime" and nothing else.  Between the brief/near non-existent animation of drawing a new arrow, the end animation of actually firing an arrow, and the charge time, it generally has around a ~50% uptime.  You spend at least half of your time spent using the Dread, not even firing shots from it.  This same note follows suit for the Paris Prime.

 

Now mind you Snipers are in an odd place here, I'll still note a couple here as they are in the intended realm of spike damagers.  The Vectis, with its single shot > reload > shot style is pretty snappy.  If the player utilizing this gun waits on its natural reload speed and instead relies on the automated reload, the gun has an uptime of less than 50%, I'll just call it at around ~33% by common sensing it.  Now the same base reload speed done by a player who knows how to use the Vectis will achieve around ~50% uptime as opposed to the lower number.  This is due to how automated reloads work on a mechanics level.  Finally, you've got a player using the Vectis correctly with Fast Hands.  This player will have a touch better uptime of maybe around ~58% or so.

 

With those looked at, let's jump back outside of the bubble and look at the other facors here.  The SG still has its limited range versus the practically limitless range on the other options noted.  Of course currently the SG's damaging capabilities are still obscene here, so this also needs to be looked at.  Again, this is all based on quick & dirty rough math, but I'd want to drop the SG's uptime to somewhere around 30-50% range at base.  As to what that would equate to in terms of its actual magazine size and reload speeds?  That's up for debate to some degree.

 

If you go too high with magazine size, the weapon's usability in "realistic" situations stays too high overall as you can possibly wipe a room before reloading.  Of course, putting it too low can create a weapon that's just genuinely un-fun to play with.  If we went with a 50% uptime the numbers would be simple actually, the nice thing about continuous weapons in this regard, as the reload speed would be equal to the magazine size divided by the ammo consumption rate.  Or in other terms, the reload speed would be identical in terms of seconds to the amount of seconds which one can continuously fire the SG from a full magazine.

 

Of course, that's all just hypotheticals and speculation from my perspective.

 

Also... damn that was longer than I'd initially hoped.  Trying to think of a simplified TL;DR here.  I got nothing that wouldn't just lead to rampant misconceptions regarding the points I'm attempting to make here.

 

Edit;  Typo, meant 30-50% not 40-50%.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Bobtm

[DarkLordX2]

Here have a pic.

 

One bullet used on a grineer

 

 

Well, that can be explained easily. It's a beam weapon, and that's a Grineer.

[DarkLordX2]

See OP, you got gunned down from around 10 or so people, the nerf squad I call them. The only thing that flies in the feedback section are nerf threads and arbitrary praises for some probably useless weapon, T

 

My suggestion, get a quanta or a phage or stop playing altogether. Dont worry, the nerf squad wiill  want to nerf  all the good weapons in the game, but they are quite satisfied with destroying one weapon in a period of time,

 

I mean, just be careful, its more than likely the next nerfed weapons will be the scindo prime, rakta, vaykor, opticor, amprex and maybe quanta, I mean, they even nerfed the macro possibility of the akbolto.

 

It really depends on whats the most used meta gun is.

 

Remember:

 

Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

Never heard of that "Nerf squad"

[Tenno-nymous]

Comparison is easy if you experienced what you consider "best".

[SquirmyBurrito]

The actual damage value isn't going to matter in gameplay. If you run around with an unmodded Synoid Gammacor and fire it briefly, you're not going to get just 28 damage -- it's going to be the full 210.

 

Welcome to automatic weapons.

 

You only have 7 kills with the thing, no wonder you don't seem to actually know what you're talking about.

 

I have.

 

I sure don't get 28 damage with no mods.

 

What are you shooting and how fast are you tapping? I can tap and fire only one shot. I just tap fired and hit a corpus for what I think was 73 which is pretty much in-line with what I'd expect when firing a magnetic weapon at a corpus unit. This was unmodded too. Take the weapon against enemies with no weakness/resistence to magnetic and you fire one bullet and you should be able to replicate 28 with no mods.

 

Dude, I'm running a zero-forma build on my Synoid and it's using a rank 3/5 Pistol Ammo Mutation mod and has a completely empty mod slot. I'm doing fine with both ammo and damage. It's obviously not going to be slaying level 80 heavies without a bit more forma investment, but for the amount of effort I put into modding it (i.e. none), it's still stronger than half of the secondaries in my arsenal while being easier to use and restoring my energy almost nonstop. I have not used a single other secondary since U16 hit because I have not needed to.

 

The Synoid is fine. Just take off your Gunslinger + Anemic Agility combo, slap on a single mutation mod, stop holding M1 like it's an Opticor or something, and you should be good to go.

 

I'm running a four-forma build on my Synoid Gammacor with a maxed Pistol Ammo Mutation mod equipped in place of what was formerly an expel mod. I'm running out of ammo incredibly fast. The underlined could be applied to a number of secondary weapons and is in no way exclusive to the Synoid Gammacor. You could use the Marelok, Brakk, VMarelok, RBallistica, TAkbolto, etc, you choosing to favor the SG means nothing.

 

So what you're saying is "Just lower your DPS + lower your DPS some more, slap on the band-aid mod that you already explained you were using, stop holding down M1 because obviously if you're running out of ammo it has to be because you're being a casual who isn't trying to conserve ammo I mean it can't be that the weapon just has incredibly ****ty ammo economy, and you should be good to go". I take major offense to the implications of your advice.

 

I'm not using Gunslinger, removing anemic agility further nerfs my dps, and as I've already stated (which indicates that you failed to read my posts) I'm already using a pistol ammo mutation mod. I don't hold the mouse button, I do my best to be efficient with my ammo (even going so far as to slot a punchthrough mod in place of more damage just to conserve ammo). The weapon is just so terrible inefficient when it comes to ammo that it runs out despite my best efforts. The only way I've found to avoid running out of ammo is to simply not use it.

 

See OP, you got gunned down from around 10 or so people, the nerf squad I call them. The only thing that flies in the feedback section are nerf threads and arbitrary praises for some probably useless weapon, T

 

My suggestion, get a quanta or a phage or stop playing altogether. Dont worry, the nerf squad wiill  want to nerf  all the good weapons in the game, but they are quite satisfied with destroying one weapon in a period of time,

 

I mean, just be careful, its more than likely the next nerfed weapons will be the scindo prime, rakta, vaykor, opticor, amprex and maybe quanta,

 

It really depends on whats the most used meta gun is.

 

They already tried to get the opticor nerfed as soon as it came out. Thankfully DE ignored them.

 

Didn't need the lightly alluded to pseudo-hostility there at the end, but I don't disagree with your general idea.  I'm all for anti-usability buffs if folks want something with obscene damaging capabilities.  That's something I consider to be a fair trade-off for a set of equipment which more or less capitalizes on burst damage over all else.

 

But do take a step back and realize what kind of a reload speed you'll be realistically "condemning" yourself to with this notion potentially.  To jump around a bit, the beam wiggle part is the odd man out on this idea, it's a short-ish range weapon.  Unless the wiggle implemented is fairly sharp in possible angles, it won't make a large difference in the grand scheme of things.  On the other hand, if it's too harsh, then the weapon will be wholly unreliable which is something you absolutely don't want on a continuous weapon, given how their damage calculates.  Because of that, I'm going to set aside the beam wiggle notion here.  Now note, I'm not saying it's bad, or wrong, it's just more difficult to think on when we're speaking in hypotheticals.

snip

 

Check your ego mate, that refers to a whole lot more people than just you. I already considered the consequences. I'd rather take a damage nerf and reload speed nerf as that would still allow me to actually use my weapon rather than wondering why enemies aren't dying when I point and click at them only to find out that I'm completely out of ammo. Since when was the SG all about burst DPS? Previously it was a beast because its sustained was so similar to its burst. Now burst dps is all it has.

 

The beam wobble was only suggested so malcontents will stop bringing up a class specific trait as a reason against the SG being balanced (because apparently beam weapons having perfect accuracy is unheard of *massive eye roll*). You can also already try out beam wobble by just slapping a maxed magnum force on the SG.

 

Okay I'll be honest. I'm tired, I work tomorrow and I'm not about to read any more of this especially not when it isn't really needed.

 

Never heard of that "Nerf squad"

 

Have you been hiding? They were all over the place when the Opticor was released, they were all over the place calling for SG nerfs. It tends to be the same group of people with a few new faces here and there, but the no naming and shaming policy prevents me from naming names. They tend to make thread after thread about why they think a weapon/frame should be nerfed giving the illusion of having massive numbers behind their suggestion until DE finally complies and overnerfs the item. Once it is nerfed these players defend the overnerf in all the resulting anti-nerf threads/buff request threads often resorting to subtle insults (implying players have no trigger discipline instead of admitting that the weapon has terrible ammo economy being a good example). 

 

Well, that can be explained easily. It's a beam weapon, and that's a Grineer.

 

 

That doesn't counter that person's claim or even address the reason they're posting that picture...

Edited March 27, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Bobtm]

 I already considered the consequences. I'd rather take a damage nerf and reload speed nerf as that would still allow me to actually use my weapon rather than wondering why enemies aren't dying when I point and click at them only to find out that I'm completely out of ammo. Since when was the SG all about burst DPS? Previously it was a beast because its sustained was so similar to its burst. Now burst dps is all it has.

 

 

Okay I'll be honest. I'm tired, I work tomorrow and I'm not about to read any more of this especially not when it isn't really needed.

 

Just to touch on the final part which I underlined;  You've got a lot to learn about game development lol.  "Who cares about important details regarding the design of weapons."

 

Going to the bold part second, it's about common sense here.  You yourself just said you'd want its damage to be retained.  Well guess what, its damage is up on a pedestal leages above everything else.  Regardless of what you may want, something like that cannot exist as a sustain type weapon, they're contradictory.  It was destined to lose this status in some way.  If you want a sustain weapon, you won't be able to have it with that high of a sustain.  That's just the breaks of it.

[shut]

I'm running a four-forma build on my Synoid Gammacor with a maxed Pistol Ammo Mutation mod equipped in place of what was formerly an expel mod. I'm running out of ammo incredibly fast. The underlined could be applied to a number of secondary weapons and is in no way exclusive to the Synoid Gammacor. You could use the Marelok, Brakk, VMarelok, RBallistica, TAkbolto, etc, you choosing to favor the SG means nothing.

 

So what you're saying is "Just lower your DPS + lower your DPS some more, slap on the band-aid mod that you already explained you were using, stop holding down M1 because obviously if you're running out of ammo it has to be because you're being a casual who isn't trying to conserve ammo I mean it can't be that the weapon just has incredibly ****ty ammo economy, and you should be good to go". I take major offense to the implications of your advice.

 

I'm not using Gunslinger, removing anemic agility further nerfs my dps, and as I've already stated (which indicates that you failed to read my posts) I'm already using a pistol ammo mutation mod. I don't hold the mouse button, I do my best to be efficient with my ammo (even going so far as to slot a punchthrough mod in place of more damage just to conserve ammo). The weapon is just so terrible inefficient when it comes to ammo that it runs out despite my best efforts. The only way I've found to avoid running out of ammo is to simply not use it.

 

Wait, did you not remove Anemic Agility? Doctors have concluded that not removing a pure-speed mod is the leading cause of "My Synoid runs out of ammo too fast!" illness.

 

But seriously, take that thing off and give it an elemental or an Expel mod instead. Anemic Agility lowers the weapon's damage per unit ammo (which, even with flawless aim, makes it less efficient against tough mobs than simply leaving the slot empty), and it adds so much fire rate that missing shots is both very easy and very punishing. You'll be wasting craptons of ammo even if you tap-fire the thing (since it fires fast enough for tap-firing to consume a good chunk of ammo, and continuous weapons are generally crappy at telling you how many units of ammo are needed to kill a single trash mob so you never really know when you need to release earlier).

I'm not trying to be all condescending or anything; I'm just saying that avoiding any fire rate mod that isn't Lethal Torrent and avoiding spending ammo where it isn't necessary (including slightly-prolonged "tap fires") can turn the thing into a perfectly sustainable weapon. I suck at aiming and I'm not even using a maxed Mutation mod due to lack of credits, and it worked for me.

 

 

So what you're saying is "Just lower your DPS + lower your DPS some more, slap on the band-aid mod that you already explained you were using

 

Yes.

Whether Mutation is a bandaid mod isn't really part of the discussion here (for the record, I kinda agree with you in that regard), but the point is that the thing helps immensely. And yes, you will need to lower your DPS. You will need to lower it a lot. For a generic conservative build that has no speed mods and has a Mutation mod slapped on, you're going to lose almost 40% of the pre-nerf DPS.

 

The end result? The thing still deals a crapton of DPS. 60% of god-tier damage is still very, very powerful.

Edited March 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[SquirmyBurrito]

Just to touch on the final part which I underlined;  You've got a lot to learn about game development lol.  "Who cares about important details regarding the design of weapons."

 

Going to the bold part second, it's about common sense here.  You yourself just said you'd want its damage to be retained.  Well guess what, its damage is up on a pedestal leages above everything else.  Regardless of what you may want, something like that cannot exist as a sustain type weapon, they're contradictory.  It was destined to lose this status in some way.  If you want a sustain weapon, you won't be able to have it with that high of a sustain.  That's just the breaks of it.

 

Since you clearly didn't understand I'll clarify it isn't really needed IN THIS THREAD.

 

" I'd rather take a damage nerf"

 

Wait, did you not remove Anemic Agility? Doctors have concluded that not removing a pure-speed mod is the leading cause of "My Synoid runs out of ammo too fast!" illness.

 

But seriously, take that thing off and give it an elemental or an Expel mod instead. Anemic Agility lowers the weapon's damage per unit ammo (which, even with flawless aim, makes it less efficient against tough mobs than simply leaving the slot empty), and it adds so much fire rate that missing shots is both very easy and very punishing. You'll be wasting craptons of ammo even if you tap-fire the thing (since it fires fast enough for tap-firing to consume a good chunk of ammo, and continuous weapons are generally crappy at telling you how many units of ammo are needed to kill a single trash mob so you never really know when you need to release earlier).

I'm not trying to be all condescending or anything; I'm just saying that avoiding any fire rate mod that isn't Lethal Torrent and avoiding spending ammo where it isn't necessary (including slightly-prolonged "tap fires") can turn the thing into a perfectly sustainable weapon. I suck at aiming and I'm not even using a maxed Mutation mod due to lack of credits, and it worked for me.

 

 

 

 

Yes.

Whether Mutation is a bandaid mod isn't really part of the discussion here (for the record, I kinda agree with you in that regard), but the point is that the thing helps immensely. And yes, you will need to lower your DPS. You will need to lower it a lot. For a generic conservative build that has no speed mods and has a Mutation mod slapped on, you're going to lose almost 40% of the pre-nerf DPS.

 

The end result? The thing still deals a crapton of DPS. 60% of god-tier damage is still very, very powerful.

 

I'm not even going to respond to the first part of your post.

 

Of course it helps, that's the entire point of band-aid mods. The issue is it doesn't help enough.

 

Go into a T4 survival/defense/whatever with only your SG equipped and no teammates, companions, other weapons (primary or melee), specters, or ammo restores. Now proceed to only kill enemies with your SG and tell me how long you last before you run out.

 

If I'm only dealing 60% of the original versions DPS, there is no longer a reason for this damn thing to have the terrible ammo economy it has. You can't justify the ammo economy with the DPS argument if I'm going to have to lower its DPS to be able to use it. Lower DPS means I spend more time shooting to kill enemies, which means more ammo wasted, which means I run out of ammo faster.

Edited March 27, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Let me tell you why the post nerf Synoid Gammacor is still superior to the Boltor Prime, and why all claims of overnerfing absolutely cannot be justified.

 

Here's a max DPS Boltor Prime build: http://goo.gl/Wcacim

 

Burst DPS: 39799

Sustained DPS: 22613

 

Here's a Synoid Gammacor build with Primed Pistol Ammo Mutation to make up for the ammo efficiency: http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Synoid_Gammacor/t_30_22234030_193-1-5-196-4-5-204-0-10-206-2-5-209-5-5-404-7-5-487-6-10-489-3-10_204-7-193-6-206-6-489-7-196-6-209-11-487-8-404-9/en/3-0-55/

 

Burst DPS: 43893

Sustained DPS: 29262

 

A post nerf Synoid Gammacor with Primed Pistol Ammo Mutation still has higher DPS than a maxed Boltor Prime, the best primary weapon in the game. Even if Ammo Mutation doesn't fix the Synoid's ammo problems, the Boltor Prime has ammo problems too, especially with Vile Acceleration. Every argument saying the Synoid was overnerfed is utterly invalid.

[shut]

I'm not even going to respond to the first part of your post.

 

Of course it helps, that's the entire point of band-aid mods. The issue is it doesn't help enough.

 

Go into a T4 survival/defense/whatever with only your SG equipped and no teammates, companions, other weapons (primary or melee), specters, or ammo restores. Now proceed to only kill enemies with your SG and tell me how long you last before you run out.

 

Did that, and I lasted for a solid 15 minutes in Defense before running out even with my crappy build. Then I switched to melee for a bit before swapping back to a nice full-ammo secondary.

Nobody's denying that it's an inefficient weapon. It's obviously going to run out sooner or later against strong enough enemies no matter how you build it. The point, though, is that it's still efficient enough for you to use it for much of an extended run if both your build and gameplay take ammo economy into account.

You're not going to magically run out in a split second. And when you do run out, it's not like you're left with no other options for damaging stuff. Just use another weapon while your god-gun is on its short cooldown.

 

 

If I'm only dealing 60% of the original versions DPS, there is no longer a reason for this damn thing to have the terrible ammo economy it has. You can't justify the ammo economy with the DPS argument if I'm going to have to lower its DPS to be able to use it. Lower DPS means I spend more time shooting to kill enemies, which means more ammo wasted, which means I run out of ammo faster.

 

I think you missed my point. 60% of what the Synoid once did is still strong as hell. The thing is still an absolute beast. It is still very much a DPS-focused weapon, and it has a downside to counteract that.

Edited March 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[LazyKnight]

This is a joke topic at this point. Look at damage per shot on that Boltor Prime then take a look at Synoid. Notice the damage per shot, Boltor primes is doing 924 damage more per ammo used. 

 

Boltor prime is something like 78% more damage per bullet than Synoid, what one will run out first? Boltor prime ammo problem is nowhere near as bad as Synoid. 

 

Sustainability and DPS are not the same thing. Damage efficiency and damage are related.  

Edited March 27, 2015 by LazyKnight