I Noticed Something A Little Disturbing About The Community.

[TheBrsrkr]

This community really, really hates nerfs. It's understandable, since most, if not all of the past nerfs have been a little excessive. If you make a theread to nerf something, there will be dozens, if not hundreds of people defending it, no matter how bad it is (see: Synoid Gammacor).However, when someone posts a BUFF X thread, with good data, good explanations and a rational, well thought out solution, there's no one around to say anything. I've seen (and posted) contless solutions to many different issues in this game, and they never really get more than 1-3 pages long. In contrast, look at any nerf thread, and tell me how long THAT is. Why do we ignore the people actually providing solutions? This doesn't seem right to me. There are some exceptions to this rule (see: any Rhino thread) but the community seems more set on not nerfing than on buffing. Why is that?

Edited April 23, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[Vargras]

Because people think they understand balance and game development.

 

They really, really don't.

[IANOBW]

Because nerfs have a tendancy to kill the fun.

 

Of course, a lot of the time they are needed.

[-CM-Aeon]

They also believe in no mistakes and go rampage if something goes wrong...

[CapnFusterCluck]

People don't like their toys of mass destruction to become toys of... mediocre destruction. It's more or less demoralizing to have a weapon that can kill less than when it did before.

 

And yes, like Vargras said, people don't understand game balance and when something is frustratingly ridiculous.

[Endrance]

The difference is huge.

 

Let me put it this way, you buy something, that works great. 1 day or 1year later, they nerf it to be half what it was, and now you no longer feel it was worth what you paid.

 

Like buying a game that cost 50 today, but tomorrow only cost 25 because something was wrong and priced was cut short.

 

While buffing, is the inverse. You buy something today, works wonders, and 1 day or 1 year later, it get buffed and it's now 2 times or 3 times better, while you paid the same.

 

Again, it's like buying a game with a huge discount, you paid less, for better.

 

 

This is how i see nerfs and buffs.

 

Buffs are always welcome, nerfs not so much unless you, by a person, actually understand how broken it was in the first place

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Because controversy will always cause more conversation. Nerfs, which are devisive, spark long debates. Buffs (for things that more obviously need them) get a few yes's and that's it.

[PookieNumnums]

Because fuses means less tears

[Jahadaya]

Because people don't want DE getting ideas that they should nerf stuff, as we know they are much more intent on nerfing than they are on buffing. 

[(PSN)Artennos]

Because nerfs usually end up at over nerf so people are scared! Can't blame them...

 

Like someone already said, nerfs usually end up "killing" the frame/weapon.... just look at Excalibur. At least he's  getting a rework but only because the community disapproved completely what happened. If it wasn't for that, DE would leave him the way he is now and probably think he was fine...

 

See?

[(PSN)MegaFlareX]

Nerfing might ruin their hard earned forma'ed weapons so they don't want their time wasted.

 

Buffs on the other hand are always nice.

[Mastikator2]

The difference is huge.

 

Let me put it this way, you buy something, that works great. 1 day or 1year later, they nerf it to be half what it was, and now you no longer feel it was worth what you paid.

This is something that is caused by power creep, not nerfs. And every time they nerf an OP weapon they make every other weapon just a little more viable.

[ndantony]

Who likes being (or feel) powerless?

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

This is something that is caused by power creep, not nerfs. And every time they nerf an OP weapon they make every other weapon just a little more viable.

 

No. They dont.

 

Every time they nerf a good weapon we become less powerful.

[TheBrsrkr]

No. They dont.

 

Every time they nerf a good weapon we become less powerful.

Every time they nerf an overpowered weapon we get more balanced.

Balance > Power

[TheBrsrkr]

Balance.

The fairy tale that gamers believe in.

Balance doesn't mean that every weapon does the same damage to everything, ever. It means that everything has an appropriate amount of ris for the rewards given, and vice versa.

[Mama_Sasha]

Balancing is certainly something that is needed on all games really. Consider how different each player's gamestyle is, some buffs or nerfs are either liked or hated, it all depends on the player. Some people like to have their games balanced fair and square and get their rewards on effort, some people like their games to be overpowering and easy, and have rare treasures served on a silver plate.

 

As Warframe is constantly getting updates and hotfixes, we see how weapons and frames will change.

As of what the OP said, any form of nerf threads are fully hated, even if the said nerf can balance it fairly.

[shut]

Balance.

The fairy tale that gamers believe in.

 

Obviously perfect balance is impossible to achieve in any large multiplayer game, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be an ideal that games strive towards.

 

 

OT:

From what I've seen, players just don't want to be made any weaker than they previously were because they enjoy blowing things up in this game and feeling like demigods. Which is absolutely 100% understandable. It's a PVE shoot-em-up game; virtually everyone feels this way.

 

The problem is that when they go onto the feedback forums to try their utmost at preventing nerfs from happening, they're prioritizing their ingame sense of power over the long-term health of the game. Looking from thread to thread, quite a few people seem to not know about what kinds of damage a lack of balance can do to a game, and (sadly) many more simply don't care.

Edited April 23, 2015 by SortaRandom

[Mastikator2]

Some truly non gifted people here think they are uniquely qualified to define or decide what balance actually is.

Balance isn't a fairytale, it's numbers, it's math. Everyone is qualified to discover what is balanced.

[Hypernaut1]

You're delusional if you think buffs aren't needed for most of the weapons in this game. Shotguns, sniper rifles, clantech, etc.

You just need to accept that.

I didn't mention anything about gear not needing buffs at all. Most player suggestion for buffs amount to "I want this weapon I use to kick &#!"

Don't be mad if most players don't agree and choose not to respond to your fantasy post.

I , find that things that DO need a buff get the appropriate amount of attention if most players agree.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[eddy193]

becuase drama and stuff

 

nerfs cuase drama amongst those with no desire for effort and hard-work

 

buffs cuase happiness amongst those with no care

Edited April 23, 2015 by eddy193

[Sixty5]

No one protests good news.

 

It's as simple as that.

 

People just see it and think to themselves, "well about time" or something else along those lines.

[Sakatchi]

This whole game is unbalanced favoring the things we fight.

 

Ive been in exterms where suddenly a kill squad magicly pops up around me and spams slash and pearce procs, causing me to run my &#! behind some walls before i bleed to death. This can happen with greneers and their grakatas, or corpus and their deras.

 

Then theres maniacs, nullifiers, tar moas, and now these new guys. Yes you can deal with them, they all have mechanics that you with a brain can exploit, but they also have tools you dont,and can punish you hard if you slip up.

 

And with the common theame of nullification, all we have left is our weaponry. And cause we keep nerfing our weaponry, because we have the flawed idea that this will some how make us more balanced, we're actually helping ourselves lose. The things we fight will just  keep getting worse, and if we keep nerfing ourselves our events will just keep getting more tedious and un fun.

 

Tldr, Nerfing isnt balance, its un balance. And I agree with op, there needs to be more input in buff threads.

[Reiyd]

Just saying, while there are a few very broken weapons and such in this game,

A: EVERY weapon becomes useless at some point in enemy scaling. The problem is, there are a LOT of weapons that are already next to useless for higher tier missions, even the ones that aren't endless.

B: Whenever they nerf a weapon into the ground, as they often do, it becomes useless. It adds another frutratingly inferior pile of junk to the list of weapons I don't use. At this point, there is even less gear to use in higher level missions. By doing this, DE is making the us nearly HAVE to use certain gear end-game.

A lot of stuff needs to get buffed as it currently stands, and if something does need to get nerfed, they need to not completely kill it.

 

Edited April 25, 2015 by Haldos
Cleaning.

[321agemo]

Right now, excalibur codex entry echoes through me:

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way.

To turn that into our current situation:

The Enemy had won. We had turned our weapons, our technology, against ourselves. The more “balance” we became, the greater our losses (weapons viability). The war was over unless we found a new way.

And this is how i feel about weapons being currently nerfed. If you nerf it, we slowly and slowly lose whatever advantage we were meant to have.

Its true that the community really hates nerf, when we really should be asking for buffs. Does anyone even remember the spectra?

Edited April 24, 2015 by 321agemo