(XBOX)MarakViriPlays
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Posts posted by (XBOX)MarakViriPlays
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Sorry about the presentation, but I can't log in to the forums on my PC, and I'm not typing all this out on my phone. Also, please ignore any spelling errors (especially with the letter "a" as the key is a bit quirky).
But, feedback would be appreciated. I've done this for a few frames, but this is the first one I've uploaded as it's the frame I'm most familiar with out of those who I've designed possible reworks for.
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Wow, this topic is so back and forth, and both sides are making legitimately valid point, which is somewhat surprising.
Speaking from personal experience, I can definitely understand the argument about [Speed] being a disruptive ability in certain cases. I had someone with a 623% Speed Boost once. It was, in my opinion, the most jarring experience I've had, but I asked him about it.
Apparently he had a Strength Invigoration, and wanted to see just how powerful he could make it, so he threw five Tauforged Shards, and went for a full Strength build, and ended up at 830% Strength or something like that, and he could technically have gone higher, but that's not really important here.
The main argument against a toggle button for the buff is that, in addition to being something very difficult to implement (Pablo said something about this at some point, I think), is that it is an intended mechanic of the game, and most people that I've seen don't go quite so hard on the strength aspect. That said, I can certainly understand the FOV shifts being something that could, and probably should, have a toggle feature as an accessibility option.
However, the actual buff itself should NOT have a toggle button, even if it could be implemented, because, in addition to the "slippery slope" argument, sets a very poor precedent. What could be done instead, is an expansion over the current "backflip" mechanic. Something like, "Backflipping while affected by [Speed] will cancel the buff, and provide the [Speed Lock] debuff, preventing [Speed] from reactivating on the player. Backflipping while [Speed Lock] is active will cancel the debuff".
That provides a sort of toggle that should effectively solve the entire issue and, given the mechanics of buffs, could even have the debuff displayed to Volt so he knows that he can't give you Speed, thus causing less confusion. It would also be easier to implement, I feel. And works fairly well with Titania, as you would only need to exit Razorwing the once, activate the debuff, and then go back to playing.
[DE] could also implement a feature that prevents your regular run speed from surpassing your sprint speed, so you could just stop sprinting when you get hit by the buff and remain mostly unaffected, without having to backflip.
But, ultimately, providing a Settings based toggle to prevent an ability doing what it is intended to do is ... a bad idea. Should they provide one for [Roar], because it's making it hard for me to accurately test my damage output? Or Spellbind, because I WANT to get those status effects, so I can Radiation wipe my team? Or maybe prevent my team from giving me Overguard so my Chroma can Chroma?
Honestly, of all the poor ability interactions that are present when playing in squads, [Speed] is nowhere near the top. It is, however, problematic when it does happen, and is exacerbated (and not created) by your frame choice, which can make it feel a lot worse. As in the Overguard example, most frames WANT overguard. Hell, Chroma wants overguard. He just doesn't want it before he build up his Vex Armor.
But, back to the topic, it should not have a setting toggle. Maybe integrate the backflip into an in-lobby toggle, and cap walk Speed at your Sprint speed, and maybe add an accessibility feature for FOV shifts (like speed and mach rush) but other than that, I don't seen any viable implementation that won't create some kind of problem.
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8 hours ago, Colyeses said:
At this point, you're looking at a full game overhaul that would ultimately make the game less fun and not solve the problem.
A full game overhaul? Not really. There are less than a dozen energy mechanics in the game, and most of them go towards ways to restore it. That said, because of how widespread it is, it would be a large overhaul, and yes, every frame would need to be tweaked and rebalanced.
As to making the game less fun ... I mean, that's a bit hard to state with authority, as is it's opposite. Everyone has a different interpretation of what "fun" is. Do I find it fun to stand in the middle of the map and nuke every enemy unit that so much as had the desire to exist? Not particularly. Do I enjoy turning heavily armored targets into sobbing broken husks with careful and deliberate control of my abilities? Absolutely. Do I enjoy watching enemies get turned into swiss cheese by a four minute long Peacemaker assault, turning my Harrow into a useless onlooker? No. Not even a little.
And, if you can control the rate at which Mesa and Saryn gain their energy, then you can somewhat control their nuking capabilities. The idea of the energy system rework, though it's not purpose and even I don't fully agree with everything proposed, would make spamming more difficult in general, without making it impossible. It would make large-scale and nuking abilities more strenuous without directly limiting it's usage.
That's the advantage a rework to energy has over a cooldown mechanic. Yes, it might take you fifteen second to regen enough energy to cast your ultimate, guarantee kill on a high level target, only for an even tougher target to appear instantly. If you've been managing your energy efficiently, you can just cast it again. Really, this only punishes people for not maximizing the timing of their ability casts. So, yes, if you enjoy spamming your abilities with no thought to how well you're using the ability, simply because you can cast it a hundred times without pause, and regain the energy in a few second by dropping a few pizzas, then you probably will find the game less fun.
Just like how people who enjoyed a Maiming Strike playstyle might find the game less fun now that it's been reworked. Or how people who used Link-Nuke Trinity might find it less fun after they nerfed her.
As I said, I have my own issues with the proposed idea, but you can't claim that it would make the game less fun for everyone. And, again, this is an idea had by one person, that other people have tried to expand on and refine, in an attempt to make a system that does "fix the problem". Naturally, we miss things.
8 hours ago, Colyeses said:Mesa and Saryn need a nerf to their 'Press button to wipe map', then we can rebalance abilities. Energy is really not the problem when half of all WF abilities are just flat out non-viable.
If you want to get technical, these aren't a problem with energy, but a problem in their kit, if you find them problematic at all. And yes, energy is a problem. You can't claim that something isn't a problem directly after admitting that it's a problem.
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1 minute ago, keikogi said:
Maybe my concers of peacemaker profiting you energy made me not look at the bigger picture.
Maybe, but you could have exalted weapons provide less Void Leach than a regular weapon, to make up for their better stats (or more for ones like the Diwata).
2 minutes ago, keikogi said:It had both a garanteed eletric proc and it gave your allies 25% of the energy you spent on that skill ( for example if you used 100 energy on a skill all allies caught by the pulse would receive 25 energy ). That version felt like zenurik favoritism so dialed it back. Probably overdid it.
Yeah. Maybe drop it down to 10%.
- Low-Cost (25e) will regenerate 2 energy to allies within range
- Mid-Cost (50e) will regenerate 5 energy to allies within range
- High-Cost (75e) will regenerate 7 energy to allies within range
- Ult-Cost (100e) will regenerate 10 energy to allies within range
8 minutes ago, keikogi said:I was just trying to create a new foudation for the energy system not create a complete rework proposal , realistic speaking this is just a initial pitch
Fair enough.
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7 minutes ago, keikogi said:
As much as people like to pretend exalted weapons are especial , they are just a increase in disability and damage.
I agree that they are often not worth the level of energy drain, but that is not the point. If an ability is not cast and complete, it should have either a duration or an upkeep cost. The only ability I'm aware of that doesn't do this is Reservoir, and I still have mixed feelings about that. And, despite what I said, I don't agree about it shutting off energy regeneration completely, though it is phrased that way. I meant that it's drain should be more than the frames base Void Link, so that it doesn't have infinite duration unless you build for it, with the more useful or outright stronger drain abilities (such as Hysteria and Peacemaker) costing significantly more, so that you need to maximize your Void Link and make good use of Void Leach to maintain it indefinitely.
20 minutes ago, keikogi said:Just give them compensation buffs , Hildrin was desined around the existence of efficiency , if it no longer exist zhe should receive compensation buff.
That's would work, though it'd need to be a rather decent buff, for Hildryn especially, since she, as you said, was designed around it.
22 minutes ago, keikogi said:The head shot requiriment is there to make kt worse with aoe weapons.
Given time to reflect on it, I actually like yours more, as it gives a reason to use CC frames, even if it would make Harrow the mother of all energy generators.
25 minutes ago, keikogi said:The shock damage is not a part of energizing dash. It replaces the old zenirki passive picking up energy obs gives energy regeneration. I just replaced it with something that would be cool for a caster school.
Ah. I missed the "Energy Pulse" in your description. But it seems somewhat pointless, and more of an aesthetic thing, unless it's a guaranteed to proc Electric, which would give a bit of CC and allow you to capitalize on your suggested Arcane Energize.
27 minutes ago, keikogi said:That is kinda of the point of it being tied to the warframe. Nukers could have higher than usual energy leach numbers so their weapon kills and the kills done by their allies would refill them faster. These mechamic is there to stop people spaninf lile there is not tomorrow I don't mimd people nuking the map often.
I guessed as much, but was just clarifying, because I've seen people suggest the opposite (they used energy for the kill, so they should have more energy available to them).
24 minutes ago, keikogi said:I also nuked energy orbs because I like the simple idea of kill=energy instead of kill=%energy.
The only negatives to removing energy orbs, while providing passive energy regeneration, and guaranteed energy on kill, is that Equinox has her passive rendered moot, Equilibrium gets heavily shafted, Deathcube's Energy Generator becomes completely useless, and Energy Conversion becomes completely useless. Probably a few other things, but these are the big ones. You'd need to find a way to make all of them relevant agai, because those are stapled in a lot of builds. Maybe do what Borg1611 suggested an keep energy orbs as another bonus to Void Link. If not, I'm curious to see how you would do it.
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It's an interesting concept. Altering the methods of energy (re)generation is always going to have people who are upset by it. However, on my high efficiency builds, I've used maybe a grand total of ten energy pizzas, and that's because I've done something stupid like walked through magnetising lasers, or fallen into eidolon water.
Void Link
So, if I'm reading this right, you're giving all frames a passive energy regeneration, with the base amount being specific to the frame itself. That would make energy problems much less pressing, for any level player.
3 hours ago, keikogi said:Also channeled skills no longer prevent energy regeneration
This is a bad idea, as much as I would love to maintain Exalted Blade, or Iron Staff, or Razorwing indefinitely, the energy drain shutting down most methods of regeneration is a balancing mechanic. Especially since you get energy regeneration for nothing.
Streamline and Fleeting Expertise
I disagree with this. This is, in fact, my biggest problem with your proposal.
1) Efficiency also affects the health cost of Despoil, and Hildryn's shield costs for abilities. This is particularly bad for Hildryn, as she has no energy pool at all, so she gets smashed with a hammer if this went through as is
2) Fleeting Expertise is a corrupted mod, and one of 2 mods that can lower Duration.
Arcane Energize
I mean, this seems a bit silly. Maybe swap it to an Energy Leach, and make it apply upon Leaching energy with that method. That would mean it works in a similar fashion to how it already does.
Energy Pizzas
2 minute cool down? Yeah, I don't mind this. There are only a few frames that warrant placing multiple pizzas, and I don't like using them that way. This makes it a more tactical choice.
Energizing Dash
The 150% link increase is good. The shock damage seems tacked on. Maybe have it shut down nearby eximus ability for a few seconds or something.
Energy Leach
The numbers for this would need to be very specific and tailored to each frame. Saryn, Equinox, and Nova would need to be HEAVILY penalised by this, since they can map nuke. You might also want to include something that makes it scale by enemy level up to a point, so that killing a level 1 enemy doesn't refund you the same amount as a level 100, because the effort you use is different. Theoretically. Most experts tend to go through then like hot butter regardless, but still.
In summary, my only real problem is efficiency in the form of Streamline and Fleeting Expertise losing effectiveness for non-energy abilities, and losing Fleeting Expertise's ability to drop your duration.
(Edit) : Oh, and channeled abilities allowing regeneration
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It's been quite a while since I used Revenant. I liked the synergy, but I never really delved into how deeply it went, because almost everyone was in the "just use 4" mentality at that point. That said, thankyou for an actual in-depth breakdown, and I'm actual interesting in trying him out again. Does he have any good weapon synergies that you would recommend?
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10 minutes ago, zhellon said:
Double the price for the abilities of the razorwing? I really don't worry about it, because if there's no energy drain, I can easily recover my energy. But I really don't understand why it's necessary?
A balancing mechanic. Yes, you can regain your energy, but you need the energy in the first place. Why do most 4th abilities cost 100, since it's easy to regain energy. And yes, it's not a good balancing mechanic, because the good balancing mechanic was the drain that you hate so much. Also, note that Titania effectively gets Archwing in closed-world tilesets. The drain is mostly from the exalted weaponry. Remove those as well and you can probably get rid of the double cost. Heck, give it a duration, but make it recastable, giving effectively infinite duration, with a hold to cast to cancel it. Which is what it seems like you're suggesting now.
10 minutes ago, zhellon said:As I said, Wukong got an ability that costs 25, but actually increases his DPS three times and allows him to do a lot of interesting things
In Wukong's lore, he shot lasers from his eyes, when he was born, that reached Heaven. He can transform into anything, animate or inanimate, at will. He has several forms of immortality. He pissed on Buddha. His staff reaches the moon.
Considering his lore, that's REALLY tame. But why only complain about him? Mag can multiply her DPS against a single target nearly a thousand fold.
And yes, I think you'll find that Celestial Twin is Wukong's unique mechanic. Just like Titania's is Razorwing, Nidus' is Mutation, Atlas and Rubble, Octavia and Mandachord, Ember and Ignition, Volt and Electric Shield, Equinox' Duality... See where I'm going. Most frames have a unique quirk that gives them an advantage when compared to other frames. I mean, Loki can permanently disarm an entire room. Permanently. There are usually trade offs. Personally, I'm fine with the energy drain, and I quite like the mechanics of Razorwing, though they could do with improvement. Removing the weaponry, and increasing the switch cost to 75 or 100 with a 40 second base duration or something, and making it renewable, would be fine.
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46 minutes ago, zhellon said:
Octavia? Wisp?
Octavia's already been admitted, by DE, to be a broken frame, so using her as a comparison is uncounted. But, regardless, she has to cast an ability to do it, and it DOES have a duration. And this is the only invisibility that can be refreshed while already active.
Wisp depends on her being in the air. Although the delay on it allows her to have unlimited invisibility, yes. But she can't shoot, because that makes her visible. Also, if you're unfortunate enough to do a hard landing, you're screwed as well.
46 minutes ago, zhellon said:I was talking about Hildryn. You can give an example with toxin and slash prock, but I solved these problems.
Umm, Hildryn doesn't receive shield bypassing procs while she has overshields, which she gets with zero trouble, and she has an ability to cancel them. But she can only damage gate once, and then she needs to replenish all of her shields to recharge it. Admittedly, she does this rather easily, and she's near unkillable with Arcane Barriers, but that's build dependant. You know what else is build dependant? Titania's efficiency. But yeah, Magnetic can be a bit of a problem, but you solve it by casting an abilityz so not a big one.
46 minutes ago, zhellon said:So what? I'm willing to give it up. It's really not that strong compared to aviator + adaptation, which give invulnerability to a certain type of damage. And at a level above 200, that 59% may or may not work. Either way, it's better to distract enemies with razorfly than take damage and have a 59% chance of not getting oneshot.Personally, I don't want to take a chance. Moreover, I do not want to count on a chance that spends 5 energy/s. How much there baruuk spends?
I meant 50, not 59, but ignore that. Yes, it's not as strong as Aviator+Adaptation. Hell, throw on Aerodynamic as well for even more damage reduction. There is a difference between "oh, that hurt less than I thought" and "you missed". At levels where enemies deal 100k+ damage, you want "you missed". And what damage type do they give "invulnerability" to? It gives a very high DR, but you still get 1 shot when enemies deal several hundred thousand damage. And Baruuk spends less, yes. But he doesn't FLY, and he CAN'T ATTACK. Also, consider their design. A magical fairy that casts spells, or a pacifistic monk.
46 minutes ago, zhellon said:Saryn, Wukong, Rhino, Nezha, Baruuk, Wisp. Some of their abilities have no duration and no energy drain. I don't understand the sacred meaning of this. I'm willing to do the mechanics with the meter if needed, but I want the energy drain to go away with the razorwing
Saryn : Spores decay if you can't keep enemies infected. Yes, it's easy to do, but it's not, by design, infinite duration. It just has the potential to be.
Wukong : His clone has a health pool, and can die. Yes, you can heal him, but again, that's only potentially infinite duration. And with less potential than Saryn, who maintains it better at higher levels.
Rhino : Iron Skin is a secondary health pool. Nothing more. It can stack to ludicrous levels, giving it ridiculous effective duration, yes, but not infinite. And it's potential for infinite duration is terrible, as it cannot maintain at high levels
Baruuk : Desolate hands also loses effectiveness of you near enemies, as it disarms them, losing you a dagger. And while it can be recast, thus maintaining it, it gets you swarmed by melee attackers, and you're still very vulnerable to status effects and AoE.
Wisp : A health increase, a speed increase, and a cc, with infinite duration. Yes, this is an infinite duration ability. This is also the ONLY infinite duration ability, and that's dependant on staying near an area. But this is a legitimate point. The only real argument is that this is NOT an exalted ability.
But, excluding ONE ability, all abilities have either duration, or drain. But, since you're against needing efficiency, make the Razorflies following Titania reduce the upkeep cost. Or, for the sake of argument, make it cost a single payment to swap form, but no upkeep, but the energy cost of all other abilities are doubled when in this form.
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@zhellonIf you want Razorwing to not have an energy drain, then it needs a duration. Because, in every form I've seen provided, it's an exalted weapon. So, either give it a duration, which means you need to recast it in order to maintain, thus still having energy upkeep, or accept that this is how it works. Also, I gave her a 50% Dodge chance. You know, a 59% chance to ignore damage. And you can increase it by keeping your Razorflies alive. You can recover energy REALLY easily too, IF YOU BUILD FOR IT. I have a low efficiency Titania build, and I can manage just fine, because I don't stay in Razorwing indefinitely, but I can probably do it if I had to, and that's with her as she is now. Also, invisibility and invincibility? The only frame that can maintain invisibility with abilities is Ivara, which, you guessed it, has a drain. Both Ash and Loki can stay invisible for a time, but they have to be visible in order to cast the ability, so they can still get killed in those moments. Rhino, the most well known "invincibility" frame, just shunts it off into a separate health pool. Take enough damage and you still die. And hey, can't recast it to maintain it indefinitely either. Valkyr's invincibility, the one that CAN be maintained as long as you have energy, DRAINS energy. That's how abilities work. It either has a duration (whether in time or damage), or drains energy.
11 minutes ago, zhellon said:It's simple, only magnet and radiation are nasty statuses. The rest can be tolerated
Toxin and Slash are pretty dangerous too, and cold can screw you over if you rely on mobility.
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2 hours ago, zhellon said:
I want archwings to be worthless.
Such hatred for an optional mechanic.
2 hours ago, zhellon said:Wuclone costs nothing now and there are no problems with it and nobody considers it strong.
Celestial Twin isn't an ultimate ability, it is not an exalted ability, and it does not change any gameplay mechanics. It's basically a Venari, or a Metamorphosis clone. Also, as far as I'm aware, it still costs 25 energy to create him. And, in case you haven't noticed, every exalted ability in the game has a drain cost, but some have no initial cost, such as Balefire Charger. Also, you do have the option of not staying in Razorwing for long periods, which helps mitigate the drain by a substantial amount.
Also, Wuclone is the best AI ability in the game, so a lot of people consider it strong.
@nooneyouknow13 Yes, and the status shedding ability of Spellbind and it's immunities are in Refuge as well.
Razorwing Blitz is a GREAT augment, but not the best in the game. Perhaps the best in your play style, but Desecrate is an amazing augment, Ironclad Charge is an amazing augment, Safeguard is an amazing augment. It all depends on which frame you prefer, and which playstyle you prefer to use them in.
"Most Passives aren't particularly useful"? Are you high?
Ash, Atlas, Banshee, Baruuk, Excalibur, Garuda, Gauss, Grendel, Hildryn, Inaros, Limbo, Mesa, Nekros, Nidus, Octavia, Saryn, Trinity, Valkyr, Vauban, Volt, Wisp, And Wukong. That's 22 of 43 frames, and they have amazing passives, even if a few could use a bit of tweaking.
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@(PS4)Vexx757 Yes, you could make a decent Titania by revisiting her, but she would be maybe a B tier at best. And it's unlikely that DE will implement what we're talking about anyway, so we're pretty much trying to create our ideal version of Titania. But really, they could have fixed Ember by moving some numbers around on her old kit, but they gave her a full rework.
@zhellon I understand what you're saying ... Mostly. A few things make my brain hit a wall, but I think I get most of it. Also, wasn't aware of that butg. That's actually a cool concept to include
4 hours ago, zhellon said:As I said, this is the main one to use together with latherns. I do not think that it is good to take out basic functions in augments.
I agree with you. I was VERY tired when I wrote that entire post. I'd probably change it so that the current augment is integrated, but it's range aspect is removed, and change it so that it automatically affects her Razorflies and companion, so long as they aren't attacking (and making it so they cannot attack unless Titania does). I think the idea was that, if you wanted a solo build, you used this augment, and if you wanted a team build, you used the Fairy Lights augment, but that's not a good idea for Refuge.
I'm not sure what the augment would do with this fused ability though.
4 hours ago, zhellon said:Sounds like suicide to the allies, but it'll be fun.
I mean, possibly. Captivation and Materialization have no threat level, so they'd be safe. And I'd probably alter Accumulation and Aggression to block all projectiles entering it's AoE, and lower their AoE, and give them health pools like you suggested, so that they're hard countered by AoE weapons and melee (though melee can be cancelled out by placing it up).
4 hours ago, zhellon said:You understand what the problem of this concept is, what is in the current form, what is in your proposal. The energy leak forces us to come up with an energy efficiency build for efficient use of razorwing
Yes. I know it does this. And I think it should do this. It gives you FLIGHT, and TWO exalted weapons (even if one of them is borderline trash). The drain reflects that.
4 hours ago, zhellon said:Dex pixia and Divata force us to build with strength in mind because we can't lower it below 150% (because below, it's dps phaedra)
Then increase their base damage. This is a rework suggestion thread, you can do that. I haven't because it's been ages since I've taken Titania to content above level 120.
4 hours ago, zhellon said:To be honest, I keep the Dex pixia and Divata concept just because people use it. But I would generally reclassify them as archwing weapons
This WOULD have been fine, but we can summon our archwing weapons now. And that's pretty much why I kept them too haha. However, there is currently nothing bound to hold to cast. How about doing something like making hold to cast while in Razorwing form decrease your energy expenditure (from 5 to 3), and removes the Dex Pixia. Hold to cast again with return the energy drain to 5 and return the pixia. (Yes, I know that's basically what you did).
I always felt that the Flight contributed 2 energy a second, as did the Dex Pixia, with the Diwata draining 1. It's arguably the worst exalted weapon, and should reflect that. This way, you could cut down on your energy expenditure, and control your combat style as you originally intended, while keeping it balanced (I think).
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@zhellonWhat you quoted me on was me saying that about the second post. It was literally an empty text box, but it got posted. That's why I had no idea why it was there. And an empty box was weird, so I edited it and wrote that. Also, I like how you've used my representation of which modifiers alter what parts of the ability.
Passive : The revival of 1 Razorfly every ten seconds. I'm going to assume that it's restricted to when she's in Razorwing form, because that's how it is now, and you didn't state otherwise. Ordinarily, I would argue that this is a little broken, because even my original 3rd Ability design was a little broken in being able to revive/replace Razorflies. Honestly though, using them as a resource is a stroke of brilliance, even if it does lean into Nidus' unique territory. Still, once every ten seconds might be a bit much, as they can survive for a reasonable time, even at some of the higher levels, if you use Titania right, and only a single ability uses them. And this becomes pointless with a Swarm aspect, which is a better implementation, since she only has them, normally, in Razorwing
As to the removal of Titania's more team-geared half, I only had that there to keep part of Titania's previous passive, as it can be useful. Admittedly, not very often, hence why I have no arguments about this.
Refuge : Having it follow Titania brings up the problem I addressed. Refuge is meant to be a squad-wide defensive / support zone. While having it follow Titania in her regular form isn't too big of a problem, having it follow Razorwing Titania means that your squad likely won't benefit from it, unless you go out of your way to stay close to your allies, which puts burden on Titania, as doing that means that they probably aren't expecting it, and are going to keep shooting, negating the entire point of it. I do like the idea of Titania being able to use all of her abilities in the zone without consequence (she's the fairy queen, and it's a fairy protection circle), and her only offensive ability utilizes her Razorflies anyway.
Maybe make it possible to do both. As in, a regular cast will shroud Titania in fae magic, cloaking her from view and shifting her physical form into an alternate phase, making her immune to damage, unless she brings herself into phase by attacking. On a concentrate cast (hold cast), she creates a stationary field that does the same things, but the area is larger, and is always cast on the floor below where she is (in the event that she is in Razorwing). Alternatively, you could make it so that one of them is only possible with her augment, or that the augment swaps from one to the other, to allow team or solo builds to work better (I prefer the idea of having full control, and being able to choose with each cast within a mission, personally). I also notice that you got rid of the status immunity, health and energy regen buffs. While the health and energy regen were sort of tacked on, the status immunity was key, as you used it to cancel all existing status effects (Slash and Toxin on a frame as squishy as Titania is never a good time).
Lantern : Honestly, I didn't even consider approaching it from the Minelayer perspective, which is odd given how annoyed I am by the overall failure that is the ability, but that might actually be why), but I love the idea. I like that you kept the cap in, and that you can interract with and move them. Less keen about being able to use Razorflies to move them, though you have implemented it VERY well. Being unable to use her Primary makes sense, since she's carrying something.
Also, I'm assuming that by "In the hands of Titania" means that she is automatically holding it upon cast, if in her normal form? That could be either a stroke of genius or madness ... or both. But the main problem with this would mean that, in her normal form, she cannot create a new lantern without dropping her previous one, which breaks the flow of her a bit. Also, given that it forms "near" Titania when in Razorwing, perhaps make it so that she cannot pick them up in Razorwing at all (they might be bigger than her, or something like that).
Exchange : The vibe that this gives me is a less effective Nyx Absorb, but generating energy instead of consuming it. It's an interesting concept, and the fact that it doesn't generate aggression is interesting, but it's far too broken; especially in defense. Making it so no projectiles can hit the defense target will make 98% of enemies in Grineer and Corpus defense absolutely useless, and that's a bit too large a shutdown.
Harmony : I'm guessing this is meant to act like the current lantern, turning enemies into placid little followers? That works, but I'm not sure what you mean by "If enemies try to show aggression, they will be stunned for a while". Do you mean enemies affected by the lantern, because I assumed that this would make it impossible for them to attack at all. Or do you mean enemies attacking the lantern?
Rage : I, admittedly, like the base idea behind this, but having to absorb enemy fire for a 50% damage increase that's constantly degenerating seems a little ... finicky? I dunno what word describes it best, but it's not a great implementation. Also, the fact that it absorbs all damage makes it broken, because you can carry it around.
Swarm : This completely removes the reason for her passive to Regenerate Razorflies. And, honestly, this is a better implementation, though it could use some work.
Razorfly : As I said, I like that this uses Razorflies as it's resource, and that it works well with the Swarm aspect. That said, you can't use this ability outside of Razorwing unless you have the Swarm aspect in the first place (again, assuming that Razorflies are only for Razorwing). I like the increased threat level, and the same target attack priority. Not sure how it's meant to change the aspect, unless whichever one is currently selected is the new aspect assigned to the pre-existing lantern. And, while the idea of giving a Razorwing to squadmates is interesting, and I assume intended to give enemies a high priority target, this seems somewhat pointless, as this feature is pointless if you have a Swarm aspect (which you can use your Razorflies to make, or just make one at any time you desire).
Razorwing : The free switch is interesting, but makes it so this ability has no real decision making to it. It "removes" the "weakness" of Titania, allowing her to regenerate energy just by putting her Dex Pixia away, but this feels cheap, because there's no incentive to manage your energy, or strategically switching between regular and Razorwing forms. Making the ability cast act in four different ways is also risky (activate razorwing, activate /deactivate Dex Pixia, deactivate Razorwing, activate Razorwing and Dex Pixia), and can make it hard to do quick switches.
My Suggestions
SpoilerPassive
SpoilerWord of the Wind
Titania gains +25% Bullet Jump and Roll distances, and takes 15% less damage while airborne.
Ability 1
SpoilerRefuge
[PE] Cost : 25e
[PD] Duration : (6/8/11/15)
[PR] Mushroom : (2/4/6/8)
Titania calls forth the protection of nature, creating an immobile circle of warding mushrooms around her current location, with a (Mushroom) meter radius, that lasts for (Duration) seconds. Within this area, all allies are rendered invisible, gain immunity to status effects {including knockdown, knocback, and stagger}, and become immune to indirect damage {such as AoE}, as long as they do not attack or activate any damaging abilities. Only one Refuge may exist at a time.
Augment
SpoilerMobile Refuge
Refuge Augment : Hold to cast will alter the nature of the warding, instead shrouding Titania is a (1/1/2/3) meter shroud of fae energy, rendering her invisible and intangible. Using a weapon to attack will immediately end this ability.
Note : This grants more control over the ability, and allows Titania to chose if she needs to be team supportive or self supportive at any given time.
Note : Also important, I feel, is that using Mobile Refuge casts does NOT give immunity to status effects. This is intentional.
Note : If a refuge already exists, casting again with cancel it. This applies to both Refuge and Mobile Refuge.
Ability 2
SpoilerFairy Lights
[PE] Cost : 50e
[PS] Accumulation Absorb : (35) {caps at 95}
[PS] Accumulation Energy : (1/1/2/3)
[PS] Aggression Buff : (15/30/45/75)%
[PS] Captivation Damage : (50/100/150/200)%
[PD] Duration : (10/20/30/40)
[PR] Aggression Range : (8/16/24/32)
[PR] Influence : (4/8/12/16)
Titania summons a glowing fairy light at her current location that will last for (Duration) seconds. Titania can create 4 different kinds of fairy lights, and can cycle through them {like Minelayer and Quiver}. Each light will have a different effect. Titania can pick up these lights. Held lights have their range values halved.
Lights
SpoilerLight of Accumulation - This fairy light will absorb 35% of incoming damage from every projectile attack that enters its area of influence, and turn them into energy for all allies within it, restoring a set amount every second that it takes damage).
Light of Captivation - Calms enemies that enter if area of influence, drawing them towards it. Enemies affected by this cannot attack, and are in a constantly unaware state. All enemies in this area take increased damage.
Light of Aggression - Gains an increased threat level {+3}. Absorbs all damage dealt to it, and grants a damage buff to all allies within its buffing range.
Light of Materialization - Upon creation, two Razorflies will be spawned, with one additional Razorwing being spawned for every squadmate. These Razorwings will go to their progenitor, and act as a normal Razorfly. Every five seconds, one new Razorfly will materialize, and replace any that have perished. If none have perished, it will attack the nearest enemy in a suicidal frenzy, dealing double damage, but losing 5 health every second.
Augment
SpoilerFae Trickery
Fairy Lights Augment : Allies gain the ability to pick up fairy lights. Non-held lights have their range increased by (12/24/36/50)%.
Note : Wasn't sure what kind of augment to make, so I made the mobility an augment (some Titania players won't want other players messing with their lanterns, like Volt's shield)
Third Ability
SpoilerRazorfly
[PE] Cost : 50e / 1 Razorfly {not lowered}
[PS] Damage : (50/100/150/200)
[PS] Status : (8/16/24/32)
[PD] Speed : (7/9/11/15)
[PR] Distance : (20/30/40/50)
Titania orders one of her gaurds to attack an enemy up to (Distance) meters away. If she does not have a guard, she will materialize one for (Cost) energy. The Razorfly will attack the target, dealing (Damage)% increased damage, with a (Status)% status chance. The Razorfly will attack (Speed) times, losing 10 health which each attack.
Titania can also target an ally, creating a Razorfly guardian for that ally that will last until it (or the ally) dies. The Razorfly has an increased threat level {+2}, and grants the player a bonus 300 armor.
If this target's a Fairy light, Titania can sacrifice her Razorfly to change the light to the currently cycled type, and refresh it's duration. If the new type is the same as the old type, it's duration is refreshed. If the light was Aggression, and remains Aggression, it retains its existing buff value. If the new light is Aggression, and there is an existing aggression light, the new light gains its value.
Augment
SpoilerTsubaki
Razorfly Augment : The player can hold to cast while targeting an enemy that is open to finishers. The enemy will take (200/300/400/500)% additional damage.
Note : Again, not sure what kind of augment to do, so I just made this one up. I'm really tired, so it's probably terrible.
Ability 4
SpoilerRazorwing
[PE] Cost : 0e
[PE+PD] Drain : 5/s
[PS] Diwata : (150/165/180/200)
[PS] Pixia: (50/80/120/160)
[PS] Di-Heal : (5/7/9/12)
[PS] Di-Gen : (1/1/2/3)
[PS] Slash : (20/40/80/160)
[PR] Swarm : (2/4/6/8)
Titania assumed her Razorwing form, draining (Drain) energy per second, and replacing her equipped secondary with the Dex Pixia, and her existing Melee with the Diwata. If Titania kills an enemy with the Diwata, she regains (Di-Heal) health, and (Di-Gen) energy. She also summons (Swarm) razorflies that will follow her, and attack whatever enemy she attacks. Titania also gains 50% evasion against projectiles, and a 5m vacuum.
Razorflies deal (Slash) slash damage, with a 15% status, a 5% critical chance, and a 4x critical multiplier. Razorflies have 740 health, 100 shield, and 3350 armor.
Razorflies benefit from aura mods {companion aura mods, such as Shepherd, will work, as will Physique}
Razorflies gain the effects of the following mods, if they are equipped on your companion;-
Animal Instinct, Fetch {range reduced by 90%}, Hunter Command, Hunter Recovery, Hunter Synergy, Link Armor, Link Health, Link Shields, Mecha Overdrive, Mecha Recharge, Pack Leader, Primed Animal Instinct, Primed Pack Leader, Repair Kit, Swipe, Synth Deconstruct, Synth Fiber, Vacuum {range reduced by 90%}
Razorflies gain the effects of the following mods, if they are equipped on Titania;-
Adaptation, Agility Drift, Armored Agility, Aviator, Augur Accord, Fast Deflection, Fortitude, Gladiator Aegis, Gladiator Resolve, Mecha Empowered, Mecha Pulse, Primed Vigor, Rapid Resilience, Redirection, Rush, Speed Drift, Steel Fiber, Tek Collateral, Umbral Fiber, Umbral Vitality, Vigilante Vigor, Vigor, Vitality
Razorflies are counted as being airborne at all times.While in Razorwing form, dodge motions while "sprinting" will "blink" Titania, effectively teleporting her, and will not trigger Rolling Guard.The Diwata deals double damage to unaware targets, and a further 200% finisher damage.Alt-Firing with the Dex Pixia or Diwata will order the Razorflies to swarm around you, increasing your damage reduction by 3% for each razorfly present.Augment
SpoilerRazorwing Blitz
Razorwing Augment : Flight speed is increased by 25% and fire rate is increased by 25% for (2/4/6/8) seconds when using abilities. Stacks up to 4 times.
Note : Titania retains her Primary Weapon.
Note : Can't think of a custom augment, so the current will do. REALLY tired now
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Honestly, I have no idea why this showed up. And you can't delete posts (which can be very annoying). But I'll use this to say that I've edited the post.
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9 hours ago, zhellon said:
The idea is good, but you use the stealth aspect, but you destroy the mobility aspect
Yes, it sacrifices mobility for regeneration and invisibility. But, lore wise, a fairy refuge is stationary, because they're mounds of earth, or rings of mushrooms. Also, this is a stationary thing because most squadmates can't keep up with Titania, and if I had it follow her, you'd have a moving invisibility field that would, more often than not, be in the air, and not viable for teammates to use. Also, you don't need mobility when you're in its area anyway, and there's no harm with being still for a few seconds. It's not like you need to stay in it, after all.
9 hours ago, zhellon said:First, it is kill skill, which I do not approve of in principle as a support concept. Second, it's a kill skill with the condition that we have to use melee... On the enemy, which is the generator of aggression... I'm just wondering how I can kill an enemy and not get a couple of missiles up my ass. Nothing personal, just this mechanics that encourages suicide, which is very bad.
Technically, only the buff portion of the skill is kill-based, so you don't NEED to kill anything. It's still a perfectly viable CC ability without it. Also, it's not melee only. Killing them with your third ability will also provide the buffs. And ... I just realized that I left out the damage susceptibility to melee. I'll change that, but the mesmerized enemies take additional melee damage. And, as to the couple of missiles. Yeah, that's a legitimate concern, which means you need to be a bit more careful as to when you can use this for buffs. But, just in case you missed it, "enemies lose alertness". So, finishers are a thing. Also, Razorflies deal extra damage to mesmerized enemies. If you're in Razorwing form, it's doubled again. And that's on top of the melee damage susceptibility that was meant to be in there.
Something that was also meant to be in their was the increased dodge chance in Razorwing for each Razorfly within a certain range, but it seems I deleted that, it seems. Along with the Diwata's bonus damage to mesmerized targets. Quite a few things I had wrote aren't actually written, and a few things I deleted are still there. I'll fix those though. But, to summarize, it's risky, but you can do it in near complete safety.
9 hours ago, zhellon said:What? Why? In any case, most people are interested in special mods Kavats, like Charm.
Why? Because you can order the Razorflies to move 50 meters away and pick up all loot in that area. Because that is the vacuum of the Razorfly, and Titania already has her own 5m vaccum. Because I don't like picking up an energy orb every second when I'm only 1 energy shy of full. And I'm not including those, because it's a tradeoff. Those are unique to the companion, and the Razorflies are not that companion.
9 hours ago, zhellon said:I didn't find in your concept an improvement on how archwing mode would be useful for Titania. I literally see Titania using the first 3 abilities, and the 4 ability isn't needed most of the time. (wasn that as spam ability to under augment 3 ability to).
The idea behind switching from Titania-flight to Archwing flight is that, in "sprint" mode, you lose the precision controls for altitude, which spares two keybindings. And, "While in Razorwing form, dodge motions while "sprinting" will "blink" Titania, effectively teleporting her". You can't dodge in Razorwing in it's current incarnation, because you keep that precision. And, yeah, I'll change the augment to make it so casting and cancelling this isn't a massive energy gain.
10 hours ago, zhellon said:Just keep in mind that Equinox mechanics share abilities, which gives us a design advantage since we can build abilities for razorwing that will only be effective for archwing mode. Okay, you don't want to do 2 forms, I understand. Then the ability must be different or something. For example, the ability to give the same result, but change the mechanics of how they act.
As to Equinox share, again, I feel that that should remain entirely Equinox, but okay. How would you change the existing abilities so that they worked, but only in Razorwing mode. Flight speed increase? Titania already gets a little difficult to control with her 4th augment, and that's ignoring the occasional visual glitches. More Razorflies? That would make the dodge boost become far too overpowered, as she already has a 74% chance to dodge attacks with just 8 of them. Add in Precognition, and that jumps to 87%. (
Change the way they achieve the result? The first ability is designed to be a stationary safe haven. Not really much I can do that would change HOW it achieves that, to the same effect. The second ability? Again, it's CC and aggro diversion. I COULD change the buffs, but it's already designed to be easier to use with Razorwing anyway. The third ability? Literally designed aroudn Razorwing, giving you a way to replenish your flock, as well as being a method of damage dealing and health recovery.
10 hours ago, zhellon said:At the moment, it annoys me that Titanias archwing mode exists in the set only for some people to be able to close the week - long task of hunting for the Ayatan sculpture. It's just meaningless in the rest of the game and people play it because it's a different movement system. But this system does nothing.
It's a mobility mechanic, yes. It's also a damage mechanic, and a survivability mechanic. It gives you the chance to ignore incoming attacks 50% of the time at worst, and near 90% at best, when combined with your 2 buffs. Your complaint here is about as valid as complaining that Zephyr's passive is completely useless (even if it isn't far off). And, you could argue that Rhino's Iron Skin or Nezha's Warding Halo are useless outside of the 1 thing that they do. They just alter the combat system in the "yeah, of course you can fire a rocket at my face mister level 100000 corrupted bombard. No, I don't mind", rather than Titania's "yeah, I'm gonna be chilling on the ceiling for a sec. Why are you shooting the roof, I'm stabbing you in the back already" mobility system. They both make substantial changes to combat if you make the most of them.
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So, I've been reading a bit of this, and I've tried to incorporate features that seem to be wanted, and tried to balance out the numbers and whatnot. It's still not all that great, I don't think, but what about this. Of note is that I didn't go the Equinox route and give form abilities, because I like that it's unique to a single frame.
Passive
SpoilerPassive - Word of the WindTitania gains +25% Bullet Jump and Roll distances, and takes 15% less damage while airborne. Allies within affinity range also receive +25% Bullet Jump and Roll distances.1st Ability
SpoilerAbility 1 - Refuge[PE] Cost : 25e[PS] Healing : (10/15/20/25)[PS] Regen : (1/2/3/4)[PD] Duration : (6/8/11/15)[PR] Zone : (2/4/6/8)Titania calls forth the protection of nature, creating a circle of mushrooms with a (Zone) meter radius around her current location, lasting for (Duration) seconds. While within this area, all allies become invisible, and immune to status effects, knockdown, and knockback while not attacking or using offensive abilities. They also regain (Healing) health and (Regen) energy every second. Enemies that attempt to enter the area are repelled backwards and suffer a radiation status effect, but take no direct damage. Only one refuge may be present at a time.Note : The energy regen will work for Titania even in Razorwing form {reduced though, because she still needs to pay the upkeep}
Note : While attacking will cancel the immunities and invisibility, it will not cancel health or energy regen
AugmentSpoilerAugment - FidelityRefuge Augment : The health and energy regeneration is increased by (25/50/75/100)%, but any ally attacking from within will destroy the refuge.-
Boost cannot be altered
2nd Ability
SpoilerAbility 2 - Mesmerize[PE] Cost : 50e[PS] Damage : (25/50/75/100)[PD] Carry : (10/20/30/40)[PD] Duration : (20/40/60/80)[PR] Buff : (20/25/30/35)[PR] Distance : (20/30/40/50)[PR] Taunt : (5/10/15/20)[PR] Zone : (2/3/4/5)Titania scatters a flock of butterflies in a (Zone) meter radius around the location she aims at, up to (Distance) meters away. Enemies within this area become mesmerized, losing alertness and floating harmlessly, and establish a metaphysical link to the flock. Mesmerized enemies also take (Damage)% more damage from melee attacks. The mesmerized enemies will taunt all non mesmerized enemies within (Taunt) meters, forcing them to attack them. While the flock has at least one linked enemy, it takes no damage. The flock has 1500 Health, 0 Shield, and 1500 Armor, which are affected by Titania's mods. Up to 4 flocks can exist at any one time, and can last indefinitely {until killed}.If a mesmerized enemy if killed by melee {including Diwata} or Titania's Razorflies, the target has their soul absorbed, granting a buff depending on the enemy type. All allies within (Buff) meters of Titania will gain the buff for (Duration) seconds. The flock's mesmeric radius also receives the buff, and entering this area will grant you the buff as well {with it's remaining timer {like Everlasting Ward}}. A flock can be "picked up", like Volt's Electric Shield, by any squadmember. Once picked up, it will last for (Carry) seconds, and cannot be placed down. A player can only carry 1 flock at a time. Carried flocks do count towards the flock cap.BuffsSpoiler-
Precognition: All incoming attacks have a 50% chance to miss. Attacks that hit deal 90% less damage, cannot apply status effects, and cannot be critical hits.
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Miss chance cannot be altered
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Damage reduction cannot be altered
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Gained from ranged enemies
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Mischief : All incoming attacks have a 50% chance to be reflected and amplified by 1000%
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Reflection chance cannot be altered
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Damage amplification is affected by Power Strength
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Gained from melee enemies
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Note : Damage reflected does not get reduced by your Damage Reduction.
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Sunrise : Power Strength is increased by 25%, and your companions (including Razorflies) deal 50% more damage, and gain 100% bonus armor.
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Power Strength boost cannot be altered
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Companion damage is affected by Power Strength
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Armor bonus cannot be altered
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Gained from heavy enemy units
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Full Moon : Increase casting speed by 50%. Increase critical chance by 15% and critical multiplier by 100% for all weapons.
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Casting speed cannot be altered
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Critical chance and critical multiplier cannot be altered
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Critical chance and critical multiplier are applied to the base stats
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Gained from flying and summoned units
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Note : The flock as counted as being airborne, and benefit from Aerodynamic, Aviator, and Agility Drift.
Note : The flock also receive these buffs, but mesmerized enemies do not
Note : The flock zones act as pseudo-repeaters for the buffs they can provide (flocks will share the bonus gained within their AoE with other flocks, regardless of range. Creating a new flock will have it appear with all existing buffs, making it easy to give the effects to allies).AugmentSpoilerAugment - Memory ModificationMesmerize Augment : Enemies that become mesmerized become stationary, and will attack un-mesmerized enemy, dealing (125/150/175/200)% additional damage.-
Damage is affected by Power Strength
3rd Ability
SpoilerAbility 3 - Razorfly[PE] Cost : 75e[PS] Damage : (50/100/150/200)[PS] Slash : (500/100/1500/2500)[PS] Status : (10/20/30/40)[PD] Duration : (10/15/20/25)[PR] Distance : (20/30/40/50)[PR] Range : (2/5/7/10)Titania targets an enemy up to (Distance) meters away. The target takes (Damage)% more damage from all sources for (Duration) seconds. If the target is killed while this is active, their corpse will shift into 2 Razorflies that will attack all enemies within (Range) meters, dealing (Slash) slash damage to each enemy before turning into health orbs. If the target is mesmerized, the damage increase is doubled.If this ability is cast while in Razorwing form, all accompanying Razorflies will attack the affected target, dealing (2x(Damage))% damage, with a (Status)% status chance, for ((Duration)/2) seconds. If the target is killed while affected by this ability, it will spawn 4 Razorflies. These Razorflies will deal (2x(Slash)) slash damage to all enemies within (Range) meters, before joining Titania's swarm. If any Razorflies cannot join the swarm, they will turn into a health orb instead.AugmentSpoilerAugment - Sharpened SwarmRazorfly Augment : All Razorflies deal (12/25/37/50)% more damage, and drop an energy orb upon death.-
Damage is affected by Power Strength
Note: Razorflies created by Razorwing are included,and willbut do not drop an energy orb if their "death" is due to Razorwing ending.4th Ability
SpoilerAbility 4 - Razorwing[PE] Cost : 25e[PE+PD] Drain : 5e/s[PS} Pixia : (50/80/120/160)[PS] Diwata : (150/165/180/200)[PS] Razorfly : (10/24/48/80)[PR] Range : (5/10/15/20)[PR]Swarm : (2/4/6/8)Titania shrinks down to a quarter of her original size, becoming a flying pixie. In this form, Titania permanently remains in mid-air, gaining vertical and horizontal flight capabilities using movement, identical to Archwing. She exchanges all of her normal weaponry for two proprietary Razorwing exalted weapons: the Dex Pixia dual machine pistols and the Diwata heavy sword. (Swarm) Razorflies will spawn, and follow Titania in one of two modes which can be swapped at any time. Titania also gains a passive 50% evasion against enemy attacks. Titania also gains a 5 meter vacuum.You can hold cast this ability (whether active or not) to switch the behavior patterns of the Razorflies between offensive, defensive, and opportunistic modes.In attack mode, Razorflies will seek out an enemy within (Range) and attack, dealing (Razorfly) slash damage each hit, with a 15% status chance, and a 10% critical chance.In Defensive mode, Razorfleis will remain within 5 meters of Titania, and each provide a 3% evasion chance. If ordered to attack, they deal 50% less damage.Upon switching out of Razorwing mode, all enemies within 5 meters are stunned for 2 seconds.-
Razorflies have 750 health, 100 shields, and 3350 armor.
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Razorflies benefit from aura mods {companion aura mods, such as Shepherd, will work, as will Physique}
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Razorflies gain the effects of the following mods, if they are equipped on your companion;
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Animal Instinct, Fetch {range reduced by 90%}, Hunter Command, Hunter Recovery, Hunter Synergy, Link Armor, Link Health, Link Shields, Mecha Overdrive, Mecha Recharge, Pack Leader, Primed Animal Instinct, Primed Pack Leader, Repair Kit, Swipe, Synth Deconstruct, Synth Fiber, Vacuum {range reduced by 90%}
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Razorflies gain the effects of the following mods, if they are equipped on Titania;
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Adaptation, Agility Drift, Armored Agility, Aviator, Augur Accord, Fast Deflection, Fortitude, Gladiator Aegis, Gladiator Resolve, Mecha Empowered, Mecha Pulse, Primed Vigor, Rapid Resilience, Redirection, Rush, Speed Drift, Steel Fiber, Tek Collateral, Umbral Fiber, Umbral Vitality, Vigilante Vigor, Vigor, Vitality
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Razorflies are counted as being airborne at all times.
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While in Razorwing form, dodge motions while "sprinting" will "blink" Titania, effectively teleporting her, and will not trigger Rolling Guard.
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The three forms cycle {like Venari modes}. -
In Razorwing form, you move like an Archwing.
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Using Alt-Fire in this mode will command your Razorflies to either attack
enemiesa specific enemy, fetch an item, or return to you, depending on whether your reticule is aimed near an enemy/loot or not. -
The Diwata deals 200% more damage to mesmerized targets.
AugmentSpoilerAugment - Razorwing BlitzRazorwing Augment : Flight speed increased by 25% and fire rate increased by 25% for (2/4/6/8) seconds when using abilities. Stacks up to 4 times.-
Flight Speed is affected by Power Strength
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Fire Rate is affected by Power Strength
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Effect Duration is affected by Power Strength
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Stack limit cannot be altered.
Note : This augment is unchanged. -
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@zhellon You're right. I'm a bit sleep deprived and did the 2 energy orbs thing twice.
And, ideally, I would have designed an kit with Razorfly and Razorwing, but Lantern has always seemed ... off? I mean, it's a good skill, and while I use it, I use both Spellbind and Tribute more. Though, I'll admit, my Titania hasn't been used for quite a while.
11 minutes ago, zhellon said:1.25 You should check how the mechanics work because I use more than 175%
Does the 175% cap not apply to channelled abilities? Huh. Cool. My mistake then.
10 minutes ago, zhellon said:In fact, I would generally take down spellbind into a passive ability
I have no idea what you're thinking, but I'm intrigued. My Spellbind is designed primarily to strip enemies of their weaponry ... oh. Just spotted a flaw when it comes to synergy with Tribute. RIP me. But anyway, the only thing that I can see being "passive" in the ability is the status immunity, and that seems to overpowered to be a passive.
10 minutes ago, zhellon said:But I don't like that it's kill skill. That's what nezha is doing now and I don't think that kind of mechanics suits Titania. What's more, I don't like the concept of butterflies exploding.
I agree, it doesn't suit her. But getting that much energy for basically nothing seemed a bit much. I suppose I could make it a more interractive thing. So, get rid of Tribute (even though that is somewhat synonymous with Titania at this point), and do something like Ivara's Quiver or Vauban's Minelayer. Give her three or four different butterflies that each do something unique, and then the third ability can do something else depending on which butterfly type is out (health orb, energy orb, buff, debuff). And, yeah, I'm not too fond of the exploding thing either, but I wasn't sure how else to do it.
15 minutes ago, zhellon said:Still, I think it would be great if the concept of the Lantern was used for this, because with the Lantern you can come up with a lot of things like the safezone concept.
If the lantern was used for exploding? Or making butterflies? Because I can make a new concept design without too much trouble. And you've gotten me intrigued. Be nice to design a frame to someone who actually uses it's current incarnation
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@MacIntoc He wants the low duration to prevent Lantern and Spellbind sending enemies into space, and is willing to lose a little effectivity from Razorwing and Tribute for it. And Equilibrium and Hunter's Adrenaline are necessities on his build, because he would be unable to maintain any level of energy without them, given the current state of Titania. So Continuity (and it's primed variant) would be counterproductive to his intended purpose, as would lowering the rank of his Fleeting Expertise.
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I do, despite what you seem to think, understand where you're coming from. That said, I'm not sure if you actually read through mine, because, while mine can use spamming, sure, it isn't MEANT to.
Okay, so you're using a 40% Duration build, with 175% Efficiency. That'd mean your Razorwing would cost ... what, 3 energy a second? So you shave off around 2e/s, which is fine. The low duration, as you said, counters the whole "I wanna be helium when I grow up" problem of Lantern ... an ability not present in my design.
"But the same thing happens with spellbind". As it exists, yes. With my design? Not so much. An immobilized enemy that hovers ... they don't really move much unless you do something else to ragdoll them. So, there's no need for a low duration with mine, since it raises energy for Razorwing, and makes it a little harder to use Razor Fly ... maybe. But, you can spam, so not really.
But, let's say you still want a 40% duration build. Okay. Like I said, that's three energy a second. Spellbind a summoned enemy or a flying enemy and use Tribute. Boom, now it costs 1.5 energy a second for the next 32 seconds (with 40% duration). That's near minimum. Running low on energy despite that? Use Razor Fly. Costs you 12/13 precious energy. But you're in Razorwing, so that's halved. Boom, 6/7 energy. What's that? You also have the Spellbound Full Moon bonus? Half again. 3/4 energy per cast. And, look at that, you have 155% Strength? That means three butterflies. Well Razorflies, but still. And that means 6 energy orbs (aka 300 energy). Boom, you gain between 293-297 energy right away. Provided you kept your razorflies alive, of course. Struggling to keep them alive? Use Spellbind+Tribute on literally anything other than a flyer or a summon. Survivability. Hell, just Tribute will give you a fair chunk of survivability; trash mobs are actually better for it! Razorflies already dead? No problem; spam cast 3 on a few mobs and slaughter them (you have exalted weapons, and you're the size of a mosquito). Hell, use the augment for 3, and you get energy when a razorfly dies. Then, use that energy to cast 3. Energy sustained. Hell, you run out of energy, but had one razorfly left? Instant energy orb thanks to the augment. Seem familiar?
Now you have so much energy, you can't store it. Swap Equilibrium out for Primed Flow. Now you have a bigger energy capacity.
You still managed to run out of energy? Cool. Playstyle shift; drop a pizza, hit 3. Boom, energy. Jump, hit 4. Use 1+2+3. Energy and survivability.
And, I use all 4 of Titania's abilities too. She's a good frame, and she has pretty good ability synergy. The only reason I got rid of Lantern instead of tweaking it was because I prefer Spellbind, and they function very similarly, and can't be used simultaneously on the same target.
Wow, I think I wrote more as a response to a message than the actual message
Don't wanna use Razorwing? Don't. It's not necessary, really. You can do just fine without it. The point of my rework was to maintain the quirks that made the Razorwing enjoyable, keep some of the flaws (perfect abilities get nerfed too much, and become useless), and make it more synergistic. It doesn't matter how much energy you lose every second when you can gain 300+ with the push of a button, especially when all other abilities cost less. Even if you ran negative efficiency and neutral duration, and Razorwing costs 8 energy a second, you can deal with it. Especially since you'd get 350/400 energy with a single cast of your 3 and a kill.
Hell, the energy efficiency and recovery of this design is broken, and your complaint was energy cost? Also, you know you can, I don't know ... END Razorwing for a few seconds ... right? Even with the current design. Start running low on energy, use Lantern, drop out of Razorwing, pop a pizza, press 4. Admittedly, your duration makes that significantly less viable, but it's finicky to begin with, so meh. You could also Zenurik dash and Void mode while it regens, and then dash out of sight and, you guessed it, pop 4.
Also, you said you need a companion to drop health orbs ... I assume you mean Synth Fiber, since your companion disappears as soon as you activate Razorwing. And, yes, paired with Equilibrium it's an amazing route. I normally use Deathcube with Energy Generator, Synth Fiber, and Synth Deconstruct, and a Sweeper Prime, as well as Equilibrium, for maximum energy recovery when I'm not a little pixie.
Also, still confused as to why you said "need to spam abilities". No. Not really. I mean, you can. And probably will, but I rarely need to spam abilities even on the current Titania.
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Well, since this is a Titania Rework forum ... I'm gonna chuck mine in here. Before that though, I like your idea. I did something quite similar, only I based it on Spellbind, and not Razorwing.
Passive
SpoilerPassive : Dust Bloom
Titania gains +25% Bullet Jump distance, and takes 25% less damage while airborne. Bullet jumping also creates a trampoline that lasts for 5 seconds and grants the Upsurge buff, giving the same +25% distance to Bullet Jumps performed in the area for her allies. Successive Dust Blooms do not cause the previous instances to disappear, therefore being able to grant the whole squad a consistent buff to their travel momentum.
Ability 1
SpoilerAbility #1 : Spellbind
[PE] Cost : 25e[PS] Pixie : (2/4/6/8)[PS] Razorwing : (25/50/75/100)%[PD] Duration : (10/12/14/16)[PR] Range : (1/3/3/5)[PR] Distance : (20/30/40/50)Titania scatters enchanted dust in a (Range) meter radius around a location she aims at, up to (Distance) meters away. Enemies within this range will enter an immobilized state and hover weightlessly for (Duration) seconds, while enemy weaponry in this area is transmogrified into pixies that will explode, dealing (Pixie) of the targets maximum health to them as Blast damage. Titania and her allies caught within this dust cloud gain immunity to status effects for the duration of the ability. While in Razorwing, (Range) and (Pixie) are increased by (Razorwing).AugmentSpoilerAugment : Mesmeric Mark
Spellbind Augment : Spellbound enemies will draw fire from non-spellbound enemies within (20/30/40/50) meters that can see them.-
Range is not affected by Power Range
Ability 2
SpoilerAbility #2 : Tribute
[PE] Cost : 25e[PS] Damage : (200/300/400/500)[PD] Aura : (20/40/60/80)[PR] Blast : (10/15/20/25)Titania blasts an enemy up to (Blast) meters away, dealing (Damage) damage and forcefully separating their soul from their body, which remains in place for 15 seconds. The soul remains in place for the entirety of its duration and, if picked up by Titania, she is granted one of four different auras dependent on the enemy affected. All auras last (Aura) seconds and have a radius of 35 meters. Picking up a copy of an aura will refresh its duration. All 4 auras can be active at once. If the affected enemy was Spellbound, the tribute gains an additional effect. Enemies that have previously been affected by Tribute cannot be affected again.AurasSpoiler-
Sight : The Sight aura increases Titania's perception, giving her a 50% chance to avoid ranged attacks.
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Spellbound Bonus : Titania deals 100% more damage with ranged weaponry.
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Note : Given by ranged enemies, such as Lancers or Crewman
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Note : The 50% dodge chance is for each projectile (roughly every second projectile will miss)
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Note : Redeemer (Prime) and Sarpa are included as ranged weaponry when they fire bullets.
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Blood : The Blood aura increases Titania's vitality, reducing all incoming damage by 50%, and reflecting the missing half back at the attacker.
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Spellbound Bonus : Titania recovers 5% of her maximum health every second.
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Note : Given by melee enemies, such as Prod Crewman and Chargers.
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Note : The damage reduction is applied after all mods, but the reflected damage is equal to half of the base incoming damage.
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Note : If Titania has maximum health, and is in Razorwing form, the Spellbound bonus will regenerate one Razorfly per second.
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Shift : The Shift aura slows down enemy movement around Titania by 25%.
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Spellbound Bonus : Titania gains 500 armor.
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Note : Given by heavy enemy units, such as Bombards and Ancient Disruptors.
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Note: The Spellbind armor increase gives Titania a DR of around 65% without armor mods.
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Full Moon : The Full Moon aura increases the damage of companions, sentinels, MOA, and Razorflies by 75%
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Spellbound Bonus : Titania recovers 2 energy every second, and the cost of Razorwing is halved.
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Note : Given by summoned enemies and flying enemies, such as Hyekka and Ospreys.
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Note : Titania will not recover energy from the Spellbound bonus while in Razorwing.
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Augment
SpoilerAugment : Soulverload
Tribute Augment : Killing a soulless enemy before picking up their soul will cause them to drop (25/50/75/100)% additional loot, with an additional (20/30/40/50)% chance to drop either a health or energy orb.-
Drop Chance is not affected by Power Strength
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Orb Chance is not affected by Power Strength
Ability 3
SpoilerAbility #3 : Razor Fly (Better Name Maybe?)
[PE] Cost : 50e[PS] Damage : (50/100/150/200)[PS] Butterflies : (1/1/2/2)[PS] Blast : (125/250/375/500)[PD] Duration : (10/15/20/25)[PR] Range : (20/30/40/50)[PR] Explosion : (2/3/4/5)Titania targets an enemy up to (Range) meters away. That target takes (Damage)% more damage from all sources for (Duration) seconds. If the target is killed while this is active, their corpse will explode, spawning (Flock) butterflies. After 2 seconds, the butterflies will explode, turning into an energy orb, and dealing (Blast) slash damage to all enemies within (Explosion) meters. If Razorwing is active, the butterflies will turn into Razorflies instead, and attempt to follow Titania. If this puts the number of Razorflies following Titania above the cap, they will explode, spawning two energy orbs and dealing (2x(Blast)) damage to all enemies within (Explosion).AugmentSpoilerAugment : Sharpened Swarm
Razor Fly Augment : All Razorflies deal (12/25/37/50)% more damage, and drop an energy orb upon death.-
Damage is affected by Power Strength
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Note: Razorflies will drop an energy orb if their "death" is due to Razorwing ending.
Ability 4
SpoilerAbility #4 : Razorwing
[PE] Cost : 25e[PE+PD] Drain : 5e/s[PS} Pixia : (50/80/120/160)[PS] Diwata : (150/165/180/200)[PS] Razorfly : (10/24/48/80)[PR] Swarm : (2/4/6/8)Titania shrinks down to a quarter of her original size, becoming a flying pixie. In this form, Titania permanently remains in mid-air, gaining vertical and horizontal flight capabilities using movement, identical to Archwing. She exchanges all of her normal weaponry for two proprietary Razorwing exalted weapons: the Dex Pixia dual machine pistols and the Diwata heavy sword. Titania also gains a passive 50% evasion against enemy attacks. Titania also gains a 5 meter vacuum.While Razorwing is active, Titania will also command (Swarm) Razorfly drones to attack nearby enemies. The Razorfly drones deal (Razorfly) damage and will swarm an enemy and attack it incessantly until is is killed.-
Titania kills during Razorwing will fully heal all Razorflies.
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Razorflies have 240 health, 100 shields, and 3350 armor. This is unaffected by mods, including Shepherd.
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While Razorwing is active, all other abilities have their cost halved
AugmentSpoilerAugment : Razorwing Blitz
Razorwing Augment : Flight speed increased by 25% and fire rate increased by 25% for (2/4/6/8) seconds when using abilities. Stacks up to 4 times.-
Flight Speed is affected by Power Strength
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Fire Rate is affected by Power Strength
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Stack limit is not affected by Power Strength
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Duration is affected by Power Duration
Note: This augment is unchanged -
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@(PS4)Nogpl_23 Thanks. Though I very much doubt he'd compete with those two, given the range advantage they have, but I figured he deserved to go from ... unused, shall we say, to something that's actually viable for all baseline content at worst.
@keikogi The innate Shattering Impact for Landslide is also a solid idea, though it might be a bit too broken. Maybe have that only when Atlas' Landslide combo is 3+ (or 4+ (so it starts stripping armor instead of getting another damage boost)), though I can't say I'm certain it would be necessary to do that.
The Landslide+Tectonics=Boulder thing is a much better way to implement it that what it currently has, and would make gameplay much smoother with a base of 4 bulwarks. Though the augment would need to change. Not sure if the idea of absorbing the rubble from your bulwarks would be used too much except for in lulls of combat, but that's mostly because there's no numbers in your suggestion, and I can't think of a good balance given the way decay and rubble armor would factor in. No real opinion on the enemy highlighting, but I don't really see how that fits into his kit.
And yeah, the energy drop is all petrify really needs in its current form.
That said, I really like your Rumbler rework. It would make them actually viable, instead of being something that dies the instant it is spawned.
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@Marinara19 I assume the "boring CC" you're referring to is Petrify?
He has that because he's based on the Greek Titan Atlas, and he got petrified by Perseus, using the head of the gorgon Medusa.
The reason he doesn't have a movement skill is (I assume), because he held the pillars of heaven for basically eternity, and couldn't really move ... at all. Giving him a movement skill would go against his lore, which DE usually try to incorporate as much as possible.
Landslide, I'm guessing, is because he was the God of Endurance, and this pretty much turns him into a boxer, which is an Endurance sport.
Not entirely sure how Tectonics fits into his lore though, unless that's because he became a mountain when he got petrified. But, the boulder part REALLY doesn't make sense.
Petrify I've already mentioned.
Rumblers though ... Yeah, I can't really think of how they fit, hence why this ability isn't in my rework design.
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Well, I designed a rework for Atlas a few weeks ago because I was bored, and this is what I came up with; and I clearly had a few of the same ideas as you. That said, I've probably designed them terribly haha.
Resource
SpoilerResource : RubbleRubble is a pickup item unique to Atlas that drops from petrified enemies on death. Rubble restores Health to Atlas if he is injured; if Atlas is at full health, Rubble instead grants additional armor that decays over time.-
Each petrified enemy will drop 1 piece of Rubble that restores 50 health or provides 50 bonus armor. Rubble will remain on the ground for 30 seconds before crumbling away if left untouched.
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Enemies petrified by Path of Statues' rock trail, Petrify's flash, or Celestial Comet are eligible to drop rubble
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Petrified enemies killed by Landslide grant 75 Health or Armor from their dropped Rubble.
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Rubble will not grant armor if at least 1 health point is missing from Atlas' maximum health pool. Excess health points will not overflow into bonus armor points.
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Rubble armor is displayed in a circular gauge on the HUD above the ability icons
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The current number of bonus armor is shown below the gauge and will visibly subtract as bonus armor decays or add as Atlas picks up new Rubble.
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Armor bonus is capped at 2,500 points
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Bonus armor decays at a rate of 3 armor points per second.
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Decay rate is doubled when Atlas is inside a Nullifier Crewman's bubble or inside a Fog of Nul Comba and Scrambus's nullification field.
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Upon picking up Rubble to gain bonus armor, bonus armor decay is paused for 5 seconds. Picking up Rubble to restore health points will pause armor decay for 1 second.
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Bonus armor will not be lost if the player falls out of bounds, but will be lost in the event of a host migration.
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The stone icon in the center of the gauge will enlarge or shrink depending on the amount of bonus armor stored. At 0 bonus armor, it remains a pebble; at 2,500 bonus armor, it becomes a large boulder.
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Rock formations will appear on Atlas' body as he accumulates bonus armor.
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Amount of Rubble dropped per petrified enemy, health restored, bonus armor provided, and rate of decay are not affected by mods.
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Rubble pickup can be vacuumed by Sentinels or the Warframe's innate vacuum radius, or fetched by Companions.
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Rubble pickups resemble a piece of stone encased in a translucent layer of reflective rock-shaped metal, which is tinted in Atlas' chosen Warframe energy color.
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Rubble pickups spawned when a petrified enemy dies while airborne will fall to the ground.
Passive
SpoilerPassive : Immovable
Strong as the mountain, Atlas is immune to knockdown and knockback effects while in contact with the ground. All recoil is reduced by 50%.-
Atlas remains susceptible to knockdown and knockback while in the air
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Certain attacks like Fire Blast can push back Atlas, regardless of knockdown
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This immunity applies to obstacles and traps capable of knockdown and knockback, such as Corpus Laser Barriers.
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Atlas can also fire powerful Arch-Guns such as Corvas, Velocitus and Larkspur without their recoil forces causing him to stop moving, even in the air.
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Ability 1
SpoilerAbility #1 : Landslide
[PE] Cost : 25e[PS] Damage (1 Hit) : (100/200/300/350)[PS] Damage (2 Hits) : (200/400/600/700)[PS] Damage (3+ Hits) : (400/800/1200/1400)[PD] Combo : (1) second >>> (2) secondsDash : (8/10/12/15)[PR] Impact (1 Hit) : 2[PR] Impact (2 Hit) : 4[PR] Impact (3+ Hit) : 6Rubble : 50%Atlas charges forward to punch an enemy target up to [Dash] meters away. The target and enemies within [Impact] meters are dealt [Damage] Impact damage as a melee strike with 200% critical damage multiplier, a 15% critical chance, and a 10% status chance.-
This can also now target Tectonics within line of sight, from up to (2x[Dash]) meters. Doing this will deal 1% of the tectonics maximum health to it as damage
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Atlas becomes invulnerable while attacking with this ability.
AugmentSpoilerAugment : Path of Statues
Landslide Augment - Leave a trail for (7/8/10/12) seconds that petrified enemies for (4/5/5/6) seconds.-
Trail Duration is affected by Power Duration
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Petrification Duration is affected by Power Duration
Note : This augment is unchangedAbility 2
SpoilerAbility #2 : Petrify
[PE] Cost : 50e[PS] Bulwark Heal : (20/30/40/50)%[PD] Duration : (5/10/15/20)[PR] Cone : (10/11/12/14)[PR] FOV : 65 degrees (caps at 135 (maybe?))Damage : +50%Rubble : 1Atlas unleashes his hardened gaze in a conical burst of energy [Cone] meters long within a [FOV] field of view. All enemies caught within the cone are instantly turned to stone. Petrified enemies receive [Damage] more damage from all sources and are completely disabled from attacking or moving for [Duration] seconds, and will drop Rubble upon death.-
Tectonic's hit by petrify are healed by [Bulwark Heal] and become petrified.
Note : 135 degree cap because that is the FOV of a single human eye. Otherwise the cap would be 182 degrees at 280% Range, which is roughly the FOV of the average human with 2 eyes.Note : This is the second ability, and not the third, because I feel the energy costs for this and the third ability should be switchedAugmentSpoilerAugment : Ore Gaze
Petrify Augment - Petrified enemies are now scanned into the codex, and have a (25/50/75/100)% chance to drop additional loot when killed.-
Drop chance is not affected by Power Strength
Ability 3
SpoilerAbility #3 - Tectonics
[PE] Cost : 75e[PS] Health : (2850/3150/3450/3750)[PS] Armor : (6/9/12/15)%[PS] Damage : (10.5/1.0/1.5/2.0)x[PD] Buff : (5/10/15/20)Explosion : (25/50/75/100)%Range : (8/10/12/15)Bulwark Heal: Look at PetrifyDuration : (1/2/3/4)Reshaping the surrounding terrain, Atlas erects a Bulwark made of stone with a base health of [Health] and an additional health equal to 500% of Atlas' modded armor. Upon activation, the bulwark is invulnerable for [Duration] seconds. Incoming damage that is absorbed during the invulnerability period is converted and added to the bulwark's health.Reactivating the ability will cause the bulwark to disintegrate, and cover Atlas with protective stone armor equal to [Armor] of the bulwarks remaining health for [Buff] seconds. If the bulwark is petrified, Atlas will instead receive a damage buff equal to [Damage]-
A bulwark's total health, before absorbing damage, is multiplicatively affected by Ability Strength.
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While active, a health counter becomes visible on the ability icon that tracks the bulwark's health percentage from 100% to 0%. Placing the HUD's targeting reticule over the bulwark will also display its health bar.
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Atlas and his allies do not contribute to the bulwark's health gain by shooting it during the invulnerability period.
Synergy :- Atlas can quickly move to his bulwark with Landslide from up to 30m away (with Landslide at rank 3)- Casting Petrify on the Bulwark heals it, and turns it into a Petrified Bulwark.- A petrified Bulwark cannot be healed with Petrify- Recasting Tectonics with an active Bulwark will give you a temporary armor buff, while recasting Tectonics with an active Petrified Bulwark will give you a temporary damage buff.AugmentSpoilerAugment : Tectonic Plating
Tectonics Augment - Upon recasting Tectonics, all allies within (8/10/12/15) meters of you or the bulwark receive an identical buff with (12/25/37/50)% effectiveness.-
Range is not affected by Power Range
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Effectiveness is not affected by Power Strength
Ability 4
SpoilerAbility #4 - Celestial Comet
[PE] Cost : 100e[PS] Multiplier : (125/150/175/200)%[PD] Duration : (2/3/4/5)[PD] Stun : (1/2/3/4)[PR] Range : (14/16/18/20)Rubble : 1Atlas becomes immobile for up to [Duration], and absorbs all incoming damage in this period. At the end of this period, Atlas releases a sphere of rapidly expanding light that deals True damage equal to [Multiplier] of the absorbed damage to all enemies within [Range]. Enemies killed by this will drop [Rubble] rubble (stacks with Petrify), as well as dropping either an energy or health orb. Enemies that survive are petrified for [Stun]. This ability can prematurely activated by recasting.Note : Atlas kneels down and raises his arm, and a glowing sphere of (energy colour?) light appears atop his hands. When this ability "activates", the sphere falls out of his hands and hits the floor before rapidly expanding.AugmentSpoilerAugment : Heavenly Wrath
Celestial Comet Augment - All enemies killed by this ability release their own sphere that deals (15/25/35/50)% of their maximum health as Blast damage to all enemies within (7/8/9/10) meters.-
Damage is not affected by Power Strength
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Range is affected by Power Range
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First Point - Exalted Weapons are just that; weapons. They have set stats and the rank of the skill (or weapon) ordinarily have no effect on the weapon, though there are some exceptions (such as the Balefire Charger, which gets its AoE area increased). I could be wrong, but that's my understanding of them.
Second Point - I think you'll find that, while health scales ludicrously high, without any form of damage mitigation, it wouldn't be too difficult for a few enemies to take out the Blood Wolf. Especially given that it does not have (after the changes) any armor, direct damage resistance, or shields.
I've changed it back to Damage Reduction that caps at 75%, but when combined with Primal will grant a 86~% DR.
Im using Forma on every slot and I still don't have enough capacity to max my Build
in Weapons
Posted
Once all the main slots are polarised, you're locked into the build anyway.
Yeah, but this creates issues with Duviri and it's selection system. If they let you cycle duplicates and/or variants (got a Braton on your choice, so you can choose between your 2 Braton Primes, Braton Vandal, or Mk1), then yeah, maybe.
I mean, if they added a new Blueprint, "Universal Forma" that took, say, 3 forma and 5 Nitain to make, that let you basically <Aura Forma> a regular slot, that would be good. Still keeps player's time gated, no longer wastes building opportunity, but probably not going to happen regardless.
Warframe Arcanes add Arcane Revives at Rank 3. Having weapons provide +5 mod capacity (affected by the catalyst) at Rank 3 could be a workable solution. Or have them do it at Rank 5. The issue would be for the Level 40 weapons, and Exalted Weapons (which honestly should have arcanes at this point, and maybe go to level 40 as well just for the capacity boost. Make us waste the forma DE).