[Warframe Story Pack Feedback Thread!]

On 2023-11-25 at 3:54 AM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

"I was wrong about you. You're a hero to these people...and to me."

Haha! My thread was merged with this one and now has zero context.

[Warframe Story Pack Feedback Thread!]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

What you said can be true and still not apply to thanking them for not being crappy.  Praise them for what they do that is actually good, rather than just not bad.  Because there's a big difference there.

I can agree with this part, that's solid logic.

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

When you set the bar for praise and doing good down at the level of just not doing bad, then you also move the bar for what is considered bad and that's how we end up with a game full of timed-content and worsening grind.

This part seems less solid and more personal though, honestly.

I think they probably make most of their decisions based on pressure from stakeholders to generate as much profit as possible. A tedious grind promotes purchasing shortcuts (and a Story Skip aligns with that). But amazingly they actually listened to the backlash this time, and that's a pattern I'd like to see strengthened.

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Grind that, coincidentally, is the main roadblock to new players rather than the story.

True, that and just how overwhelmingly complicated everything is. The guy that got me into Warframe also got his wife into it and she had never played any video games in her life. I remember her saying: "I thought gaming was just mindless entertainment, like boys just running around shooting stuff. But wow, this is like a college class!"
(I replied with something like: "Well... you're not entirely wrong; there are dumb games too.")

[Warframe Story Pack Feedback Thread!]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Stop it.  They aren't heroes for not doing something shady.  That should be normal behavior, not something special.  "Oh wow, you didn't burn my house down, you're such a hero."  No.  And there's plenty of other super shady stuff they do anyway.

I can respect your sense of justice. But I believe that purely negative feedback is an imbalanced approach. Is there anyone in your life that is displeased with you no matter what you do? I don't know about you, but when I'm around someone like that I stop caring about anything they have to say.

To be fair though I think 100% positive feedback is also imbalanced.

[New Archon Shards Are a TERRIBLE Idea]

I'm excited to see what effects are going to be added. I have four Mag Primes (I only play as Mag/Prime), and I'm reaching 5 Tauforged on all four (2 TF away). I've got an All-Rounder, Tank, Speed, and Damage model.

There are still some tweaks I'm experimenting with, but for the most part I've settled into my four builds, but this leaves me with a problem: I don't want to miss out on an Archon Hunt, but what will I do when I have no more use for shards? Get more Mag Primes and make more builds? Save them up?

Neither solution seems that appealing to me. My All-Rounder alone can do all the content; the three specialists just let me do it easier. What would my 5th+ build(s) be? But then again what would be the point of getting and not using Tauforged? It seems I've made it to a problem of overabundance.

 

So this development is actually very thrilling for my situation! Elemental bonuses might mean I could make Faction-specific builds. And what if they make effects like increased Vacuum distance or +25% Resources? Then I could make a Farming build.

My excitement might die down when they actually reveal what the bonuses are, but at the moment I'm looking forward to the possibilities.

[Warframe Story Pack Feedback Thread!]

"I was wrong about you. You're a hero to these people...and to me."

[Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag]

12 hours ago, Qriist said:

I can appreciate that, but I'm (respectfully!) intentionally disregarding your perspective. The vast majority of Warframe is open to a 4-man squad so the game should primarily balance around, and encourage, having that full squad. Concessions should be made only in places where the mechanic physically doesn't work (such as friendship doors not needing two people when playing solo).

Thanks for being so respectful, and that's a very interesting take! While I've encountered many who prefer squad over solo, you're the first to believe that solo should not exist at all.

I think this should be obvious, but it's not like they're mutually exclusive playstyles. In fact, a good multiplayer game has to be built on top of a positive individual experience. A bad game with good teamwork will fail, a good game with bad teamwork will endure, and a good game with good teamwork with thrive. The multiplayer features are a multiplicative bonus, but the core gameplay is the base number.

Also, multiplayer can be a toxic environment, so I'm glad DE hasn't forced minors into that environment like some other game developers.

 

12 hours ago, Qriist said:

You want your single preferred frame to be able to handle all content on its own but I explicitly do not want your frame to be able to overcome all obstacles.

I'd like to correct something. I've only played Mag/Prime, I'm MR 27, and I've beaten all available content. So I'm not arguing for DE to make something possible. It already is. I'm arguing for the path to be made smoother because I am aware of just how enjoyable it is.

 

13 hours ago, Qriist said:

One of my favorite and most used frames, Nezha, even has such a weakness. Between constant party-wide burst heals, stripping armor, and being nigh unkillable, he excels at the support tank role I've given him... but fully sucks at point defense. He needs someone around to help defend a cryopod or an excavator. I keep the offensive and defensive frames upright while they fend off waves and directly protect the target. We fill in the role gaps that the other squadmates have to provide a more solid mission experience.

It would make sense for there to be niche frames that specialize in a single area, but I think it would be a gap in the character roster to make only specialists. There should be all-rounders for those that want to play as all-rounders, and my feedback is presented as one.

And actually, what you're describing is a good analogue for life in general. I've met people who want to depend on others; they blossom when everyone works together. I have nothing but respect for them. I on the other hand am a jack-of-all-trades in life, so I naturally gravitate towards that style in my hobbies as well.

 

13 hours ago, Qriist said:

Bringing it back around to the topic at hand: I want the game's mechanics to implicitly encourage teamwork. So, to that end, the removal of expanded vacuums + party loot would, in my opinion, encourage better teamwork and communication. Yes, that is to the detriment of solo players, and yes, I am okay with that.

I can respect that we stand on opposite sides of this, but I'm glad that DE wants a good solo experience. Be it greed to want everyone play, insight about what makes a good multiplayer game, or even just artistic caprice, DE has made it clear that they want the single player to want to keep coming back. As long as they continue to make solo-only content and amenities then I'll assume they want to keep getting feedback about it.

 

And as a final note (bringing it back to Vacuum). I think most squad players actually do want Vacuum, and I believe that strengthens my point. They want loot for their individual goals, but they don't want their solo efforts to benefit lazy parasites. It might be squad play, but the motivations behind it are solo in nature. I don't think this applies to you though, because by the looks of it you didn't even consider how party loot would encourage selfishness. That's pretty cool.

[Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag]

On 2023-11-22 at 1:41 AM, Qriist said:

I do not. I've slowly come to the opinion that expanded vacuums are unhealthy for the game.

What I would like to see is the removal of all expanded vacuum mods coupled with enabling party-wide loot pickups (ala railjack). This makes it so people still have pay attention to the game instead of mindlessly blasting AOE through the mission, BUT a given item only has to be picked up once by any player. I think this solves multiple balancing issues at once. 

My perspective is coming from a solo player. Having to physically approach each drop is brutal. For example, I've been working on finishing all the research at my Dojo, and one of the items is the Hema:

HEMA: Bio Lab Research (+10,000 Clan Affinity)
Credits 5,000	Mutagen Sample 5,000	Plastids 10,000	Nano Spores 45,000	Neurodes 50	Time: 3 Day(s)
					Prereq: Torid

I ran the numbers and I'm looking at anywhere between 6 and 34 hours of running Deimos missions (depending on if I buy boosters and Smeeta helps out).

But if I had to cease mobility and look around, eyeing and approaching each resource before moving on, then that would easily add another 50% to my mission times, bringing the range up to about a 10 to 50 hour range. And while Hema is an extreme example, Warframe requires a lot of resources.

 

The only way I could see them removing Vacuum in its entirety is if they make resources a mission completion reward instead; don't even have drops. Every time you break a crate, just show a little "Crate Broke!" floating text or something, and then when you're at the completion screen it would say something like:

• Crates Broke: 53
• Enemies Defeated: 126
• Lockers Opened: 22

And then those numbers would cycle down to zero and the resources you get rewarded would add up as they do, and you'd end up with about the same amount as you would have if you had collected them by hand.

 

But actually while this would work great for solo, it would be terrible for squad. And what about energy and health drops? So actually Vacuum is really the only solution here...

[Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag]

19 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Honestly, if you don't assume the worst kind of spaghetti code is at fault there is actually a much simpler and potentially more likely reason the size of the model appears like it affects the radius of vacuum: The measurement is being taken from the centre of the model not the outer edge of the model's hit box. This would guarantee that no matter what model is being used the vacuum range remains mechanically the same. The problem with doing that is that from the end user's point of view they appear to be getting a much smaller effective vacuum range due to the size of the model.

Hildryn: "Why is the universal vacuum so SMALL!?"

Yareli: "Really? I think it's fine."

Hildryn: "...you smol."

Yareli: "何!?"

Grendel: "What are you two talking about?"

Both: "..."

[Lotus wants to move in with you]

Why'd I get a facepalm!? I guess I should feel honored that I was your account's 11th comment on the 11th month and at the top of the 11th hour (JST).

And I think it's time for some more Lotus Lines! Today we're on 961-970:

• "Tenno, you wouldn't... copy someone else's loadout, would you? I heard some Tenno don't even put any thought into their builds. What a sad way to kill. What a sad way to live!"
• "One of the more fascinating behaviors of the infestation is its tendency toward standardization. I mean, doesn't that seem counterintuitive? The infested are asymmetrical and grotesque, yet they perfectly replicate their soldiers."
• "I don't mean to nag, but you just have one node left on the Star Chart! How does that not drive you crazy?"
• "I would have asked to live in your Orbiter, but I don't think there's enough space. That and... your 'garden' next to the Helminth kind of grosses me out."
• "I thought this one was my original helmet, but you picked that up before the whole New War mess, right? It's still floating on your pedestal. Where'd I get this one then? I don't even remember. Maybe I should check it for malware or something..."
• "On Tau we had a saying: 'Love isn't something you should live to get; it's something you should get for living.'"
• "Have you ever laughed so hard it hurt? I wasn't aware this was possible until I started to live in the human form. So far it's the only 'pain' I've ever known to be a pleasant experience. Oh, what was I laughing about? It's a secret!"
• "Certain enemies are able to imitate Warframe abilities, but we haven't found out how. It seems to come at a high price, but it still concerns me. Imagine having to face off against 10 Malice-like enemies. We need to continue to thwart enemy attempts at evolving their technology."
• "The Battacor would actually be a very good anti-Tenno weapon. Disrupt and Confusion are devastating effects for a Tenno. I wonder if that's why the Corpus are testing it in the Enrichment Labs..."
• "Ugh! More Thermia Fractures!? Whatever they're doing to that planet is obviously not sustainable. Even the ancient people of Earth understood that you shouldn't mess with your planet's temperature."

[Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag]

12 hours ago, (PSN)RazorsEdge6267 said:

(also just to correct you mag never got a rework, all her abilities are the same is they did when she was released, it was a revisit which she had with volt some years back)

I halfway agree with you. Mag has always had a form of pull/magnetize/polarize/crush. Apparently though update 18.13 is seen as a shift in Mag's entire play style. (I started playing after that point though so I never got to see the Corpus-Killer Nuke)

You've got a good point calling the update 32 a "revisit." I'm on the fence about Pull's vortex. It is really useful, but I really enjoyed yeeting enemies off the map. But her play style didn't really change all that much. I'd say more so than the changes they made to her, it was the changes they made to armor-stripping that had a larger impact.

[Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag]

47 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Oh there were definitely some bad ones, and it wasn't even just rare mods (rivens didn't exist yet) you know how you just get the warframe parts in your EOM rewards? those used to drop off of the bosses onto the ground. You can thank the older versions of the Raptor and Nova for that going away lol. Half the time you'd go to farm nova and the Free Frying Raptor would drop the part outside the bounds of the map where no one could get it. It wasn't a guaranteed drop at that time yet, if I recall correctly, either so you had to get a part to drop first then hope to hell it didn't end up in a mountain.

Sweet golly gosh. I remember being painfully underequipped for the Raptor fight. At the time I thought I was supposed to be leveling up my weapons while completing the main Star Chart, so my weapons were all unranked with hardly any mods. It was such a long drawn out fight because I had limited ammo and had to rely on Energy Siphon to get enough energy to use my ability (I think it was 59 seconds to get enough for my 2nd) So clearly it was my fault that the fight was so hard, but if after all that time I saw the drop fall out of bounds I would have been devastated.

53 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

That had been my big hope too, clearly it was considered necessary enough that the place we can't have pets got it's own version so maybe we could just you know squeeze that into the rest of the game? Might be a few years out though there have been a lot of changes that don't fit super tightly to Steve and Scott's original vision and even though Reb is creative director of warframe and Pablo is the <title I can't remember right now here> you do have to give people time to adjust and make peace with the differing directions of the next "generation". Especially when the community response is overwhelmingly positive to those changes because managing people's pride is important even if we wish it wasn't. Human foibles you know, we all get like that.

Makes sense. And It's better to have a next generation creative team honor the past than to just trash it completely (looking at you, Disney!).
My thought during the Duviri thing was that it was designed as a dual expansion/new-player-alternative introduction. So if the new introduction had a built-in Vacuum, then maybe the old introduction would get it as well. But alas...

[Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag]

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

There is actually a universal vacuum distance on warframes. It's 3m which is small enough it's just barely noticeable if you pay attention. It was worse when there was none and you had to be inside the item hitbox to pick it up. The 3m innate vaccuum was added secretly and at the time it felt like Scott was trying to have a gotcha moment when he pointed out they had added it on an early devstream and no one noticed so clearly it wasn't a big deal. The problem was that people did notice, it was just so small we could never be sure. This is what 3m distance is:

If you were walking towards an item it was impossible to notice the vacuum at that range. I'm actually pretty sure the necramechs have the 3m universal too, but their model is so big you can't tell.

What I'd really like to see see is the Duviri base 5m loot pickup added to all operator/drifter, warframe, and necramech (although to be honest because they are so big necramech should be 8) with the vacuum mods adjusted down so total vacuum with the mods remains the same.

That's interesting! I always assumed it was always 3m. And I agree that's not enough, but wow yeah it would be brutal if you had to actually touch everything you wanted to pick up. Given the way level boundaries and object meshes are set up, there would be a lot of times when you couldn't even get to an item in that case. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be if something like a Riven Sliver or a Rare Mod fell into a crack between rubble and was impossible to get to.

I really believed after Duviri that they'd go for a universal Vacuum in the main game.

[Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag]

8 hours ago, (PSN)RazorsEdge6267 said:

Universal vacuum should not be tied to mods and should be put on warframes, operators/drifter, necromechs and k-drives at base.

And for the people that don`t want it, their should be a mod for it like they made for Titania's 4th ability.

Completely agree! I'd even go so far as to say it should be an Accessibility Option that can be modified at any time. Something like an "Item Attraction Distance" slider that goes between 1 and 11 meters.

And I say "Accessibility" because the amount of camera/character movement necessary when walking up to every piece of loot/ammo/orb can be a strain on people with joint or motion-sensitivity problems. (Okay I just made that up)

 

But I also think that DE knows that the players who do not want vacuum are an overwhelming minority. Mag's passive used to be attraction during bullet-jump only so players had the choice of when to and not to attract items. But with her recent rework they just made it an always-on state. DE wouldn't have made that decision if they believed there were still a good percentage of players that avoided using vacuum.

[Isn't a Dojo supposed to be a place to train? (A Dojo room idea)]

On 2023-10-28 at 8:43 AM, Antroz0n said:

Even though I suggested this before Dagath was revealed, I have a feeling that it might've already been planned and that it was just a coincidence that it actually happened. (And the fact that the horse was to be used for an ability, while different from my original idea was still pretty similar-ish. Especially with my original name of the ability which was called "Cavalry Charge", (then stampede instead of charge)). The difference is not only was I hoping we would be able to ride the horse into battle, having its own melee attack when bumping into enemies, but also be able to use melee weapons on it like that one mini-bossfight enemy can. As a sort of "miniature expansion" to the mechanic. (And obviously it couldn't fly because it'd be a non-Duviri-ified horse). Though the Dullahan Mask does make me wonder if for next Halloween we might get the version or a similar one to what I suggested, with the actual name "Dullahan" this time. I mean, if they did, they could be the "Headless Duo". Or something like that.

This got me thinking how fun it would be (for us, obnoxious for DE), if we tried and somehow succeeded to brainstorm whatever Warframe idea they were actually working on in secret.

DE Creative Team: "Let's make an edgy Japanese-esque Warframe this spring! Maybe a Warframe that uses cherry blossom petals. We can change 'sakura' into something like 'Kurasa' so the nerds will feel proud of themselves when they figure it out."

DE Management: "That's good! We looked up 'Kurasa' and it means 'Darkness.' So how about we release it near the Spring equinox in an event called 'Darkness Blossoms?'"

DE Creative Team: "Ooh! We'll get to work on it right away!"

Warframe Forums: "Hey guys, wouldn't it be cool if there was a Sakura Warframe? Maybe something that's spring themed?"

DE Management: *throws baseball caps on floor* "Gosh DANG it!"

[Humble feedback on health tanking and maybe a way to let it keep up with gating all the way]

4 hours ago, kerozen666 said:

I mean, since i posted this, i've started to want attenuation more. ultimatly, it is a scaling cap with extra step, but you still get the full super tank build fantasy. 

as for the health gate, it would be way too cheesable. you would literaly only need to build for regen and never hp. simply having regen that give you 1 hp dunting the gating period makes you completly immortal. with a .2 second gating, a rejuvenation aura plus an archon shard and poof! immortality and also infinite energy thanks to rage

That's interesting! I've never tried Health-Tanking before so I didn't think it was possible to be generating more than 100 HP every 0.2 seconds (or 500/sec). But you're right if you could do that then my numbers would make you untouchable.

I chose 100 minimum damage because I thought that was extreme. For example, if you had Wisp's Vitality Reservoir at +492% Strength (all Strength Mods, Empower, Molt Augmented/Vigor, and Energy Conversion), 5 Tauforged Azure Archon Shards with Health Regen, and four Squadmates with Growing Power and Coaction Drift, then you'd have 224.775 HP/second regen. Which is insane (to me, who uses Mag). But even that is only about 45 HP every 0.2 seconds, not even half of the immortality threshold. I'm curious now what kind of regen numbers health tanks are getting.

[Humble feedback on health tanking and maybe a way to let it keep up with gating all the way]

On 2023-11-04 at 1:02 PM, kerozen666 said:

Currently there is a hard cap on how far one can push a frame using health as it's main defensive option. there is simply a point were damage will just be too much to be absorbed. On the other hand, Gating with overguard and shields don't have this situation, as if someone is getting their timing and energy eco right, they are virtually invincible.So how can health tanking be made as viable as gating without creating something that will become more annoying than useful once the damage gets high enough, or that could be abused to create immortality (like using the same gating as shields but pairing it with any regeneration)

So after overthinking for a while, the one way i tought that could work would be to adress the issue at the source. the idea is simple, since there is a point where damage gets too much, we make it so that point is never reached. To do so, a special modifier could be applied on players, companions and any item that one would desire to see damage capped. That modifier would come as a way to keep the scaling of enemy damage received as bellow to a certain predetermined level, while still allowing normal enemy scaling for other values, and allow for damage redirection (octavia's mallet, Nekros' shadows) to still properly scale. I will also fully admit that i don't know the precise way damage is calculated on shots, i'm simply presenting this based on what i know the game has. 

This is also only an idea coming from a player who love this game and wants it to live long. Other solutions are likely possible, I simply thought sharing this one could help, since it goes at the source and is likely futureproof

In a way I think your solution is sort of like "Health Gating" (without the invincibility period) If the max is--say--5,000, you have 12,000 HP, and the enemy attack is 10k, then you would hit 2 "Health Gates" before dying on attack 3.

And while that would let you live through the first two attacks, what happens if there are three enemies all launching 10k attacks at the same time? You'd still die instantly. So I think there'd have to be a brief invulnerability moment of time to react between "Health Gates" in that case.

Or, alternately--and this starts to sound like attenuation at this point--the max could be a percentage. Let's say any single attack can only do 50% (rounded up) of your current health (minimum damage at 100). In that case if you had 12,000 HP, then a large hit would do 6k damage, Then 3k, then 1,500, then 750, then 375, then 187, then 100, and then you'd die. It would take 8 large hits to kill you. And that would give an advantage over low-HP frames that start with numbers like 300 (which would be dead in 3 hits).

If you coupled the halving/min100 system with a brief moment of invulnerability (like 0.2 seconds) then that would give high-HP builds something similar to a shield gate of 1.6 seconds to live while being blasted to smithereens.

AND if you devised an HP regeneration strategy that could acquire HP faster than the Health Gates (+801 HP every second) then you could achieve that immortal melody the other frames love to sing.

[Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

• Walking through an enemy corpse that has been killed from Magnetic damage increases HP regeneration by +1/s (max 50 stacks)
• Applying Magnetic Procs to enemies increases parkour velocity by +5% per status for 30 seconds (max 10 stacks, stacks reset counter)
• Mag has zero friction and double slide speed
• With no Melee equipped, Ranged Weapons get +100% Magnetic Damage
• With no Ranged Weapons equipped, Mag's shields get an additional +40% Damage Reduction
• Mag gets +2% Ability Strength on next Ability cast for every 1m she falls (reset on jump)
• Crates drop double loot when Mag breaks them with Magnetic Damage
• Shooting a magnetized corpse creates an Energy Orb
• Mag gets +1.5 Punch Through in Ranged and x1.5 Follow Through on Melee
• Mag has a compass on her Map that point toward rare items when within 50m

I felt like adding to the list, but I decided I'd put it on the first post and then quote it so that people with squeaky mouse wheels could get a break.

[Lotus wants to move in with you]

I really let this slip. Life and work have been very busy during October. Not only that, but I've been trying get higher Mastery Ranks lately which has required a lot of my spare time. But to that end, I've reached a milestone! I'm at MR 27! (Without leveling a single frame outside of Mag/Prime... and the Umbra which I only used for the required quest mission)

With that though, how about we get some more Lotus Lines!? Where are we? ... Looks like 951-960:

• "Belief is a choice, truth is not. If you take choice away from belief, then you have tyranny. But if you add choice to truth, then you have nothing."
• "I don't know who did it, but one of the Dry Dock guys hid a Grineer Commander's Switch Teleport in my bathroom. If that had gone off just half a minute later..."
• "You ever wonder what happens to all that leftover material after an elemental weapons fight? The gas clouds coat the irradiated walls, toxic and corrosive sludge gets caked to the floors, and infectious material festers in the condensation left from cold weapons. I don't think there's any worse job than a janitor in this era."
• "Your finishers when wielding Nunchaku weapons actually looks like it could help pop my back. I don't suppose you... no never mind."
• "Defeating all the Wardens during a Rescue mission grants higher rewards because of how abusive they are to the prisoners. People like to hear that we took them out."
• "If I could figure out how your Nemesis keeps stealing your resources and credits at the end of a mission, then I'd stop them. It really drives me insane when I feel like I'm getting outsmarted by an obvious moron."
• "You see Mods in the field as large canisters, or in your Arsenal as cards. But they're neither in reality. It's hard to describe them because their shape is so circumstantial. Just take 'Magazine Warp' as an example. Try to imagine how it can work for both the Harpak and the Hema?"
• "It's nice to see the syndicates working together over this whole Abyssal thing. I had hoped that the mutual threat of Grineer and Corpus would have pushed them to burry their respective hatchets, but anger is most durable when it becomes a tradition."
• "I don't really see the point of robotic Specters. Robotic military units are specifically designed to be mass producible and field deployable in the first place."
• "Why does Legs keep whispering: 'That is what she said!" to Biz? We'll be having an important strategy meeting and Eudico will be talking about how difficult an infiltration is going to be, and those two are over there giggling of all things!"

[Incarnon Mode Deactivation, Get Rid of It.]

I like the Felarx's primary fire mode much more than the Incarnon Form. Occasionally though, I use the Incarnon Mode as a means of saving up Ammo. While doing so however, I may want to exit Incarnon mode if I encounter a strong enemy.

So for at least the Felarx, being able to go in and out of the Incarnon mode fits my playstyle nicely.

[Personalization in navigation]

Are you talking about Loadouts?

I know you can swap which Loadout you want active from Navigation, but to actually manage them you need to access it from the Arsenal.

[Kitgun and Zaw Riven Mods]

15 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's true.  Although I'll point out  that some of this is because DE never made multiple Zaw/Kitguns within each class very enticing, and modular weapons have stayed basically static in power level, and new modular weapons and arcanes almost non-existent.   If there was a good reason to make, say, 3 very different builds of each grip and chamber, and new choices were coming out regularly, we might want more than one riven for each type.   And now that a lot of these have been powercrept, wanting even one riven of each is pretty dubious.

Anyway, DE tried to account for this somewhat with the Sortie and (I think) Palladino percentages...

Melee	29.18%
Pistol	27.28%
Rifle	24.34%
Kitgun	7.17%
Zaw	7.17%
Shotgun	4.87%

...but not an adequate job, and it's getting worse as more regular weapons are added.  But worse than that is the Circuit, where percentages are equal for each type. :/  (Although I guess that's good news for Shotgun riven hunters.)

Personally I think I'd like it if all the sortie and Circuit rewards were consolidated into  tokens, convertible into whichever riven type one wanted.  Palladino could be tokens too, if limiting direct purchase to two a week is too complicated.

Those are good points. I do get the sense that this is a remnant of much older features and decisions that just haven't aged well. And it's true that there are a LOT of Kitgun/Zaw combinations, so it that had taken off then we'd probably be having a different discussion.

I did look at the drop table data for Sorties as well. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but it feels like I'm always getting Kitgun or Zaw mods from Circuit and Sorties. (Or at the very least I'm getting them just as often as everything else)

 

3 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Iron wake really shouldnt give them too. There was a time I never got zaw and kitgun rivens from there.

That one does sting. When it's a random drop that's one thing. But when I'm looking Palladino in the... face(?), I feel like she should take my needs into account.

[Kitgun and Zaw Riven Mods]

19 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

This has been asked for quite a few times, its very frustrating when you do a Sortie or any other mission that Awards a Riven and it comes as either Kitgun or Zaw.

Aside that, Kitgun/Zaw rivens completely override Transmutation results, you can add 3 Non-Modular weapon Rivens and the moment you add either a Kitgun or Zaw Riven, that Transmutation is guaranteed to give one of them.

I have proposed countless times that Zaw Rivens should be sold by Hok in Cetus for Ostron Standing and Kitgun Rivens by Zuud in Fortuna for Solaris Standing.

Then I humbly add my voice to the choir of outcries asking for this!

In a (somewhat tragic) way, it's sort of cool that the solution is so obvious that we'd come up with it independently from one another.

(Now if only it was just as obvious to the right people...)

[Kitgun and Zaw Riven Mods]

There are 6 Kitguns and 11 Zaws (in Riven/MR terms).

There are (last time I checked) 168 Primaries, 128 Secondaries, and 196 Melees.

Clearly, a player needs more Rifle, Shotgun, Piston, or Melee Riven Mods than they do Kitgun and Zaw Mods. (by a ratio of 96.66% if we're just going on numbers, though that's going to change if we consider weapon families)

So I think Zaw and Kitgun Riven Mods should be taken out of the reward pool for Sorties, Palladino, Circuit, and so on. Instead, these Rivens should be purchasable at Hok and Rude Zuud respectively. It can be a typical 1/week purchase limit.

["Change of Plans"]

37 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

She wouldn't even need to ask, just patch me into the channel and I'd change the plans myself.

Don't diss spacemom, you jerks.

Well said

["Change of Plans"]

I love imagining what might have been the reason why Lotus would change plans suddenly mid-mission.

The scenario that I find to be the most entertaining is that Lotus is listening to the enemy communication and she hears something insulting:

Grineer Commander: "I'd like a status report on the Galleon 0383 currently stationed around Cassini."

Grineer Captain: "Commander! A Tenno is on board! Need assistance."

Grineer Commander: "A Tenno!? Sending reinforcements now. Why are they on board?"

Grineer Captain: "They're targeting someone in particular. It seems to be an agent who just got back from a mission."

Grineer Commander: "That filthy old witch! Why does she keep harassing us with her dimwitted Tenno?"

Grineer Captain: "Sir? Maybe you shouldn't use that kind of language. This isn't exactly a secure channel."

Grineer Commander: "Ha! What's she going to do? Just keep shooting until the Tenno goes home crying to 'mommy.' Not that she can even have kids, or that anyone would want to have one with her."

Lotus (to Tenno): "Change of plans, ignore your original objective. Leave nothing alive."