CapinPotato9711

out of genral interest, im hopeing to find what people enjoy about this game. personaly, I enjoy the varying mission types, the availability of content (with everything important free) and the fact that I can run around as the fastest old man in the solar system, whos a space pirate, and owns a multiplicable hell dogo the fact that theres relativly little grind too is also a bonus, although this likely has some elements of bias in it since I just came back from playing genshin impact ive heard a few peoples opinion, although everyone has there own reasons for playing, and with over 30 milion players theres got to be allot of reasons. side note: hope we all have a nice christmas (or free vacation)

I know it isent funny undertow is being removed, I enjoy the ability, its increadibly versitile and has saved my hide countless times. itd be even better with the finisher rework comeing with abbys. I just try to lean to humer when im irritated, I find it helps lessen sourness.

out of curiosity, what weird and under cooked "arguments" have you lot seen on hydroids rework. best one I remember is when someone said "undertow has no place in a high speed game like warframe", which prompted me to list every single warframe with stationary abilitys in the game I could think of. the list was.... extensive. anyone got any more we could have a laugh at:)

we'll have to see what the devs do after release. theres allot of comments here, so theyre unlikely to check all of them, although it does make sence for them to at least check some of the comunity feedback. ive only seen a handfull of people who are actually glad undertows going, and most folk I see in game and in the forums genuanly want it to stay in some form. only time will tell. no point on going on any more tangents.

so ive done my own reserch, and this is what ive found in this video, by slowing playback speed to .5, it can be heard that the man in the wall says the following: OULL, RIS, XATA, VOHK. MARA, LOHK while there is a "cleared up video" this video removes some key sounds, such as a "HK" at the end of the 4th verse, which is clearly herd in the slowed original. the entro first verse may be inaqurat on my half, as the boom at the entrence seems to muffle the first sylables. in the fourth sylable, I am fairly sure there is a VO sound and ends with HK, making me agree with SLIppers theory, that each 2-sylables has takes its meaning from its corrosponding position of its requium (eg, LO-HK, HK would mean By that which bears no name) MARA seems to be a reapeiring word, with it also being mentiond in the recent duviri tablet 30 (KU NOMA ELU RA KAH, MARA LOHK) when asked what the wall of bone was. the theory of the man in the wall is the void, seems unlikely as teshin mentions repeatedly in the undercroft void flood: "if the angles are allowed to breach the wall, there master will be free" potentially implying that the man in the wall is trapped in there, and wants out. assuming that i am correct, and that the requims themselves actually corrolate to each poem, the partial translation could be: through endless faces, countles forms, a multitude unfolds __ in lumisous space, blacked stars , they gaze, acuse, deny __ its heralds are the stars it fells, the sky and earth aflame___ to cosmic madness laws submit by that which bares no name___ ******MARA***** _____ from brooding gulfs are we beheld, by that which bears no name. again, this is an incompleat translation, and the word MARA could compleatly change its meaning. the first line is coherent: OULL, refering to how the void entity acts through endless faces and forms. "a multitude unfolds" could mean diferent things, my guess is that mutitude refers to eternalism, and how any action, which the power of the void, has all its outcomes happen. RIS: in luminous space- fairly certian this is the void. blackend stars- this could refer to the black, blazing star like object visable ocasionally in the void (only in specific places) the best place to see this is in the void mirror in the circulus room while its facing earth (look at earth through the mirror). this also sparks debate on the verse "the sky and earth aflame" as both the "void earth" and its surroundings are seemingly ablaze. but again, this is in the void. "they gaze, acuse, deny" this may imply that this is what the void entety does from inside the wall, perhaps since they cannot directly impact the material plane. though other then sentence structure, theres not much else backing this theory. XATA: its heralds are the stars it fells, the sky and earth aflame. as ,mentioned in the breif tangent above, in the circulus void mirror, when looking at earth, it is ablaze, as well as its surroundings. this seems too relevent to ignore. VOHK- to cosmic madness laws submit: the voids physics, or " an aqurate representation of quantum physics respect for our mental well being". "by that which bears no name" fairly certian this is the man in the wall, given they are a (so far) nameless entety the second verse makes less sence, however, until someone decifers MARA, I can never be sure on the compleate sentance. feel free to counter argue, these are just my thoughts, and could be wrong.

this theory makes sence, with the translation being coherent and beleivable. however, Ive tried to use this to decyfer the zariman tablet 30, and have had no results The Wall of Bone in whiKU-NO-MA EL-U R-A K-AH, MA-RA LO-HK? too many of these dont sound remotly like a phrase of any of the requiums, Ku, could be mistaken for the end of "lohk", however this is pronounced "lowhk" so cannot be used. No- NA ma- NA el- can be misinterpeted for "oull" however ending is too pronounced in it requiem. it pronounced as it is spelled, not "ouell" ur- NA ak-NA ah- potentially last line of "khra" (we end as we began) ma- repeating sound, but still uninterprable ra-more likely canditate for we end as we began lohk- clearly matches lohk requim- from brooding gulfs are we beheld by that which bears no name this cannot form a tangible sentence, however, im no geneus when it comes to cyphers, so feel free to correct me

I think most folk in this forum agree that undertow should be implemented into the new kit as a tap hold function to tidal surge in some way I feel like the hostility in the more recent comments towards the devs is, unnecacery to say the least. with such a diverce comunity of players who all play for diferent reasons, its nearly imposible to predict what people want, and quite frankly, it will never be able to please everyone . we all like and dislike diferent things, hell, some folk even claim to "not like clem". ThE HoReR. but that aside, with 16 pages of "reimplement undertow", Im fairly certian the devs will have gotten the messege, any further hostility is unnesasery (not that it ever was to any extent)

hmmm, good question: so far ive counted articles 5 : Im no expert, but im fairly certian decintigrating and reincorperating captives is fairly inhumane, not to mention methods of interigation. 36-37: asuming tyle regor is, by some standered, a medical operative, attacking them in any way is a war crime. 22: following the art 36 assumption, tyle regors facilitys would be classifyed as medical ships, so by attacking them, your commiting a warcrime 13-14-16: just by sideing with red veil, your commiting this warcrime. infact, wouldent the realeys facilitating this act count as a warcrime of sorts? 50, 54: never seen a prison or holding cell in warframe that matches this articles standereds. this is a system wide warcrime 109-110: its unlikely a greneir or corpus POW would in any case be reterned home 35: seemingly evrything tenno do causes prolonged suffering to vertually all enemys, and many of these would have destroyed any environment several times over 53,56: weve seen in many sabotage missions that each generator will expload with enough force to wipe out a large area, and asuming corpus generators are more advance versions of feildrons, we can say that all corpus generators are nucleor fussion reactors.so by compleating a sabotage mission, your commiting a war crime also, because each faction effectivly warship there leaders, some tilesets dedicated to these leaders (eg, kuva fortress, every corpus capital ship), they are by some means a place of worship. so thats two in one. and finally- article 77, recruiting children under 15 into the armed forces..... this goes without saying and that is what I could sumerise for warframe warcrimes.... there are definatly some ive missed, but some I felt there was too litle information in game to go of. some warcrimes only applie to certian groups, usually non milatery. it wouldent make sence to spare someone who is holding armes at you even if they are sick. otherwise, if someone was shot and survived, they would still be allowed to harm others,but not receive harm in turn. i supose there may be clarification some were, this is just my thoughts. evrything ive put here ive tried my best to think through, again, its all based on opinion.

Not sure on the overall popularity of this gamemode, but I know its not as hated as some folk say. Ive enjoyed railjack since I joined, when call of the tempastari was new, and Ive enjoyed most aspects of it so far. big ships, big explosions, even bigger ships and explosions (I realy love volitile). also you can drive into people. theres nothing to dislike about that. It does feel like there could be more to it though. we only have 6 proximas so far, and it feels like it could do with some updating once all the current stuffs been finished. New proximas: I dont beleive DE is finnished with railjack just yet. in the new war, we were sent to the sun to beat up ballus for assulting natah, being forced to use wreckage as cover from solar flares, makeing the mission not as plane and simple as the usual shoot and sail. having to work around your environment would be a interesting development in railjack, and would allow for more experienced pilots to have a challenge once in a while. getting to retern to the sun as a new proxima could be interesting and easier to implement, potentially as a multifactioned proxima like the veil , exept with the adition of narmor nodes, which would make use of sentient ships which we havent realy seen in genral gameplay since scarlet spear. another concept could be the kuiper belt, a metiorite and wreckage rich area in which pilots are forced to sail through dence astroid feilds while engaging enemys, meaning they will have to plan there rout rather then just aimlessly driving through empty space shooting things. this one is more of a concept Ive thought about while piloting through astroid and scrap clouds post mission for fun, and I feel it could be more interesting then the usual layout of these maps. the enemys in this area would likely concist of sentiants, and potentially infested, which could be an interesting way to reintroduce the old orokin deralict map (the one which was replaced by deimos) being able to fight the inactive faction of the zariman in a proxima could also be a posibility. conditions around the zariman would likely cause wierd void related complications during the mission, ranging from void manifastations, to angle apeirences on your target vessle. adtitional stuff: some other ideas I just randomly thought of were the following: void manifistations in void storms: enemys such as thraxes, murmer and other things could be an interesting way to spice up void storms, which currently only add ruptures which suddenly exist wherever you open a door. these could occur later on into the storm, adding significance to higher catagorys, (eg, at cat 5 thraxes may ocasionally spawn on your ship, forcing you to watch your back while piloting) objectives shuting down: in some cases, ive found that even when a target is nutrilized, it can still send ramsleds and even commet shards after your ship, causing a consistant problem even after there delt with. this is more an inconviniance then an actuall threat, but still, itd be nice to deal with. natural hazards: space is never realy calm, and even a tiny chunk of aluminium can cause a crater the size of a bus in solid steel when its mooving at the right speed, which in space isent uncommon. ocasional floating meteorites and moving debree could cause significant damage to both enemy ships and yours if you arnt carefull. this would probebly be harder to implement, but itd still be interesting to see. Again, these are all Ideas ive thought of during gameplay, and arnt thuroghly thought on concepts, so feel free to add on your own ideas. railjacks a fun gamemode, but as with evrything, itd be nice to receive some added flavor. edit: after compleating numerus void storms, ive found my self having an extensive collection of corrupt holo keys and as ive already got all the tennet wepons..... DE, please let us exchange them for something else, ive got 500 in storage, I beg of you, at least let us sell them, or trade, literaly anything.

thought i might add to this debate, fiveN9n's point can also be aplied to most other warframes: limbos 4, wisps buffs, atlases wall, vaubans... evrything. oberons hallowed ground, zephyres tornados, trinitys health and energy restors, xakus armor and sheild strip, hildrins 4 (may as well be). khoras strangledome and ensnare, niduses parasitic link, larva, and ravonus. citrene and gara both prity much stay in the same place. garudas blood alters, saryn needs to stay in the same area to keep there infection up, or risk loosing it. octavia benefits in the same way, otherwise its harder for teammates to benefit from buffs. all of proteas abilitys require being in the same place, mostly her 3. sevagoths sow. revanants thralls dont travel with them. titanias tribute and lantern. even if this wernt the case, folk dont just move around the place exept for exterminate and spy misions, with every other mission type involving staying in a set area. even in survival missions, most players ask to camp in a set area to increase spawns, allowing for every squad mate to have more fun. any argument for "its too slow" or, "it has no place in a high mobility game like warframe" just dosent make sence. just because it dosent suit one missions type dosent render it invalid. you wouldent bring a gara on a spy mission, youd bring ivara. if it were defence, it would be the other way round. no, hydroids undertow does not suit fast gameplay... alongside most other warframe in the game which also have one or multiple stationary traits.

part of the benefit of using hyroid over other trapping frames is that you can place your swarm over seemingly endless range. I understand where your comeing from, but i feel there is more utility as it is

While ive already given my peice about undertow (repeatedly...o_osorry) I feel like i should go into better detail about what i like about this update. I feel slightly bad for only realy mentioning my complaints. as I breifly stated, Im exited for most parts of this update. the new passive ability provides hydroid with much needed damage buff, stripping 50% armor on anything they damage, which can reach 100% with aditional corosive procs. the new tempast barrage now does base corrosive, makeing it ideal for procking hydroids passive, and can also deal viral with the augment, allowing more damage based mods to be applied to wepons. hydroids two will no longer be able to chuck enemys into the abyss, but it will allow grouping without needing to faceplant a wall. it will also allow for controled stearing, so im exited to see how bad i am at turning with this. plunder seems to have a similar effect to the passive, though also provides bonus armour, and wepon damage. how much is still to be determened. it can also provide health to you and team mates with the augment, which provides much better healing then undertow did. while it does not provide the imidiate invulnrability and invisability undertow did, it does have its merrits. the kraken (or garry as I call them) no longer flings enemys into orbit, and while as entertaining as that was, I am more then greatfull I no longer need to witness this anymore . I prefer my physics intact :) but overall, the update more then improves hydroid, and while it sucks that undertow was removed, ide rather have the new abilitys then old. the devs did a good job on this one, working on it while making a new frame as well.

new idea: im going to just keep edeting my points here rather then makeing a new post for each reply. when i mentiond using undertow to dodge, i did also clarify its specific usage on eleates, not on basic mellee units, since there is no point dodging those attacks. being able to invuln through acolites attacks in melee is great, especially since misery alone does 80k bloody damage a hit(calculated through being one shot with 95% mitigation), which even if you dodge role, will probebly still hit. as for the operator, ide have to argue that it dosent fill the role. while it does take some agro of the warframe, your warframe can still be hit by attacks, and when it is, you ocasionally get draged out of operator. whether this is a bug or not is irelavant, since its been here a while and has had no special mention, so we can assume this is just a part of the game. this is most freequent while figthing shadows, at least in my experience. on the other hand, undertow provides instant invulrability, even whilst casting, and prevents any status effects from impacting hydroid further whilst active. to clarify: undertow exells at avoiding powerfull attacks, and while its animation isent instant, it does only last 2 seconds befor you can attack again, if you exet by canceling the ability. you can emidiatly attack if you dodgeroll out the puddle, simeraly with jumping, though this is less manuvarable.

thank you for alaborating, here is my counter argument: well over 33% of my usage is hydroid prime, so i know what im saying when i mention undertows usages. what you have metnioned are the methophorical tip of the ice berge, and quite frankly all the problems there is with undertow, other then it still trigures laser grids, which would be fairly Op, and push into ivaras neich (please dont start a debate on ivara) bare in mind im a melee player, so most of what ive said applies mostly to hydroid melee. hydroid is by all means not a gun platform, there are other frames for that, dont complane about hydroid not suiting gun ho players. as i have said, the instant invuln it provides, even while casting means you can effectivly negate strong attacks, like lich grabs ,manias lift , blitze eximus, disruptors , exetra which usually hits even if you dodge role. it can also be used to cast abilitys safley, such as gloom, which if your needing to cast it means you need to heal. it also lets you power up your tenticles, and summons them closer together, rather then them spawning on a random enemy nearby (for context, hydroids tenticals spawn on any nearby enemy they can, or around your puddle). this allows you to control or block a point with less spread. there is also an augment which rapidly heals alies in the puddle, 30% a second. this is rapid, especially for an afk healer frame. it also allows you to breath in hords, but as i already mentioned that in my previous post, im not going to say it again. im just adding things here so my last post isent an overly edeted mess. your point in which it says it has a slow kill timer is fair, exept its not made to kill anything. its percentage based damage, all it does is prevent obsurd amounts of enemys being traped by an afk puddle, regardless of level. its primery function isent to kill, its to survive. undertows usage isent in staying still, its in going in and out of it, sort of like a better roaling guard, since it can be spammed, enemys stop targeting you, and it lasts indefinetly. if your actually going for this, it also reduces the need to equipt roaling guard, saveing a mod slot. as a bonus, you can dodge roll, jump, or even sprint out of it at any time, and enemys will react slower since they must first sight you then atack, as you were just invisable. the whole gimick of it is "breathing room", which in a game like warframe, isent common, and is what makes hydroid such a survivable frame, in its own unique way........ like loki ( im going to regret saying that arnt I)

mate, not to be rude, but please read what basicly me and the rest of the comunity has said, then reply with a valid counter argument that isent simply "its bad" without any other context.

word of warning, this is another one of my undertow tangents, and if youve read the wiki hydroid page, youll be well familier with my ranting. so ye, youve been warned: Ive mained hydroid for a while, and its great there finally reworking them. the new passive makes sence, and i feel it makes them an interesting CC armor strip frame. not too happy with the 3 removal, its saved my hide on numerus ocations, and allows you to both cc enemys by nocking them over, and provides temp invuln when ragdoled by special enemys. the point where it says it hides enemys from allies is invallid since allies atacking the puddle spread damage to all enemys submerged. its also good for cumbersome reloads, since wepons can reload and charge underwater. also, as long as you cast it mid air, momentum still applies, so it still carries you forward at a decent pace. as for utility, it dosent just function as a slow invuln. the invisability it provides also allows you to stop and breath in large groups of enemys to find and target specific irritants hiding in the mass, such as arbi drones, eximus drones, and that one magnetic spamming eximus that always seems to disapear. all the other changes i agree with and like, the 1 now has a use, the 2 is a good grouping now, the 4 is more functional, and the passive now has a gimick, and best of all, i no longer need to applie 2 tau forged cast speed shards to cast at a reasonable speed. ide say the comunity pressure on removing the 3 influensed this choice greatly, but as someone who put time and effort into playing a space pirate, i have to say this, again. its realy just to do with play style. the puddle makes hydroid exell at dealing with eleates such as mania and litches due to high durability and the capability to avoid lift (the puddle can activate even lifted), which usually would be a death sentence. and if you add the capablity they will get with this rework, then they will exell at this role even more since they can actually deal with armor without needing unaru. if the puddle were added as a tap hold function to one of the new abilitys, it would allow old mains of hydroid to use what they know along with the new abilityes, rather then an ability being removing simply because other players cant be bothered to experement with diferent ways of playing. ok last tangent over, im realy sorry ive kept doing this. as much as I agree the new plunder ability is good, undertow has saved me on several ocations, and hydroid will feel realy strange without it.