Vanadium
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Posts posted by Vanadium
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+1, dawg.
Right now, Phorid is just an way for easy resource farming, Aside from his homing spines, he's pretty much a chump. I just take my Loki, go invis, then hack at him until he dies. When Serrated blade was still a thing, I'd take Ash and spam Shuriken until he rekt (because he took 3x, just like any light infested).
It seems like everyone with full star chart treats him the same way: resource farm. He has no stages, he has terrible resistances, no CC immunity, and you can kill him in less than 30 secs. Would definitely like to see him "git gud".
I vote for Phorid overhaul after Tyl Rygor. No more joke bosses. No more chumps.
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-snip-
^This. All of thiiiis.
Why can't cool ideas just appear? Why can't Warframe just be this right now? Man, reality...
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maybe in the kind of blade and soul that would be S#&$loads of epicness? it maybe shouldnt jump that ridicoulously high - but even a bit in that direction would be soo much appreciated by me.
Well, that game looks fun. Signing up for that newsletter.
But that was kind of what I was getting at with just "ninja-jumping". I mean, we're wearing these super-future exoskeletons (or are they wearing us?!), I don't understand why we're not rushing/jumping around like in a Crysis game (other than tile size) all the time. Excalibro's Superjump is the closest we get.
I hope DE's art team get's the resources to make bigger environments someday...
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So, I like my Manticore, my Brokk, my Dagger Axes, etc. I like having the same stats on a weapon with a different aesthetic. Especially with Scindo Prime, I got a Manticore that does exactly what it looks like it will do (rek everything).
Can we get some more of these, DE? Pleeeease?
I don't really care what you make them for, as long as they're cool (for reference, all the ones made so far are cool).
P.S.
I'd also like to see some of these skins extended to other weapons (I'd like to have my Dagger Axes replace my Ichors). Y'know, just where it makes sense.
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Ah, I misunderstood your position, sorry.
Though, I'm still not sold on weapons being central to "newcoptering" (or whatever)
Yeah I got that part as well, but since there isn't a name for your proposed mechanic I still called it coptering, should've put it between quotes.
Yeah, I should probably stop calling it "coptering" too, if it's not really coptering anymore. "Boosting"? I dunno.
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what you're suggesting is, essentially, a removal of zorencoptering. which has already been addressed by DE, and the response was "isn't going to happen".
that's why i offered a balancing mechanism to the current design. in the form of giving each melee weapon it's own flight "move", removing speed mods as the deciding factor in scale and advocating new mods to control that ability.
regardless of what happens, i really would like to see this element polished.
Yeah, that's what I said. I even said that's what I said. But all I want to see removed is the way it is currently implemented and replaced with something more sensible, more polished, and that can be balanced and tailored. People want to rush invasions/event/vault runs/etc. I get it. I rush through some of it, too. I've been staring at some of these tilesets for over a year. But DE has admitted that it's kind of an accepted glitch, and there should be a point where an accepted glitch becomes a fully implemented, polished mechanic, just like skiing in Tribes.
I also asked you, "Like this?"
And you didn't really answer. You're not really explaining your idea in a way that's easily visualized. I'm not sure what a "flight move" is.
Also, I don't want to see melee weapons turned into decorations on your back again, existing solely to "go fast". They just became viable for killing stuff and I'm really enjoying it, even if it's not perfect.
pretty sure all this is baked into the game and won't change
They already removed it once. It's definitely not "baked", whatever that means.
I feel like my point is being missed: I want a version of zorencoptering that is refined, cooler, worked on, and makes sense. That's it. That involves separating it from slide attacks probably, yeah, and it would probably be fine.
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You expect me to read all of this?
For what I saw while skimming seems good.
Welp, that's why the TL;DR's at the top. Still, I hope you got to the super rad Jonny Quest pic. Few things top Race Bannon + bazooka + jetpack.
Heavy melee should copter
I don't think coptering should be linked to warframes, because light warframes don't need the speed and heavy ones do.
That's not to say I don't copter around like a crazy person with my loki, but I'm also refereed to as the Copter Queen, often doing double and triple copters around the map.
also maybe fix the derpy little run that we do.
Melee shouldn't copter, period. <-period
It's weird, it doesn't make sense, and there are cooler, more fun ways to implement the same result that fits the universe. That's the whole OP in a nutshell.
Slower warframes were always meant to be slow. They have pros to counteract the cons of being slow, like beefiness, CC, or nukes. You can't have it all. That's what we call OP. You can have a middle ground, but that's definitely not Rhino or Frost. They're very tanky frames with very defense-centric powers, as well as radial-CC. They're both pretty good as is. Let speedsters have their speed, let tanks have their tanks.
In addition, frames were intended for roles. Ex. Frost is not a rusher. He's the defense king. Even after the snowglobe nerf, T4D groups are still Frost + a bunch of CC. That's just how it is, that's just how he was designed.
Of course people want to rush through the tiles they've gone through a 1000 times before, without a single CC-wall getting in their way. That's understandable and most frames have counters to that. That's a symptom of some of the game's core issues which I don't want to get into here.
I like this, it would make a coptering loki faster than a vanguard rhino (as I understood it you don't want to change their basespeeds, but their coptering speeds right?) and it would make zephyr the blazing fast avian she's supposed to be.
Pretty much, I really want to take coptering out entirely and just have it be sort of a boost function Warframes can do.
if its tied to frames, i think its fine as long as the slow frames are at ~80% speed, and fastest are ~120%, so there isn’t too much variance
Totally reasonable.
I believe that tying it to the warframes themselves makes perfect sense. There's a reason why the sprint speeds are what they are. Zorencoptering renders the differences meaningless. (which is why many people love or hate it)
Removing melee weapons from the equation makes the most sense, allowing parkour moves that can increase the movement abilities above and beyond a simple jump/flip.
and.... that pretty much makes zorencoptering not a "thing" anymore once you get to this point.
I'd just say, as a meet-half-way solution that all melee weapons allow for a coptering "move" and leave it at that.
this would limit the immersion breaking aspects of the way zorencoptering works now and make for some interesting ideas for future melee weapons. you could also break the tie to weapon speed and give it it's own mechanic. (and mods)
So...like...Jetswords?
or like this?
I mean, yeah. I would like to see Zorencoptering not a thing by replacing it with a more immersive, polished mechanic. Unless I'm completely missing the point, I thought people liked Zorencoptering because it let them quickly rush through repetitive content. So will this. Unfortunately zorencoptering also bypasses a bunch of balancing cons on certain frames. What I'm suggesting is already a middle-ground.
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So, I posted this in Weapons Feedback. I guess it was the wrong section. Trying again, because this is something I really want.
Nope, this is not a Zorencoptering bash thread.
TL;DR: If Zorencoptering is here to stay, it should be refined, which may include removing it from melee weapons and just having it as something Warframes do.
Devstream #46 kind of left an idea hanging: "Zorencoptering is like skiing in Tribes."
Pretty much, yeah. For those who don't know about skiing and it's rich history or about Tribes and it's rich...everything, I'm not going spend time on the exposition of days of gaming yore (also, shame on you and "what r u? casul?"). Point is, skiing was eventually refined, having it's own indicative graphical effect and being easy to use/understand, but hard to master (kind of what DE wants for mobility and melee).
I feel what needs to be done is for Zorencoptering not to be affected simply by what melee weapon you're using. Especially now with heavy melee being weak, lack of 'coptering is another deterrent for heavy melee use. I would say that heavy melee needs the gap-closing that 'coptering affords the most, since the slow swings make it easy for the bad AI navigation to just wander off or vampire leap away from you, while you're left in a 1-2s combo. Coptering is necessary to close range fast for heavies and to chase them down again when you miss.
Zorencoptering also gives speed to Warframes that shouldn't have speed, breaking any inherent drawbacks. "But Zorens are a drawback!" They were, apparently they're pretty good now. There are also a handful of other very viable weapons that also copter, like Scoliac, Bo (Prime), and Fangs (Prime). Without beating around the bush, I'm talking almost solely about Rhino. To get some parallel, the Heavy armor in Tribes always had difficulty with mobility and that was its main drawback. Rhino is covered in armor and has an ability which spawns more armor. Shouldn't he be heavy? Shouldn't Iron Skin work like...Iron Skin from Dark Souls? But enough about that.
Finally, Zorencoptering just doesn't make sense: I spin fast, so I fly forward at ludicrous speeds. Why? Because my melee weapon is light and fast. Science. Tenno Science.
Inspirations/Ideas:
My head keeps going back to the Long Jump Module from Half-Life 1.
Of course, that was a big honking backpack when you picked it up. I'm envisioning little boosters integrated into each frame, at points that would propel your center of mass forward (top of the shoulders, lower back, hips, and maybe thighs).
But, not like this:
" />still rad, tho
Because, y'know, we need room for our Birdlifters.
Another option is just sick Ninja jumping:
Ninja jumping fits in a game where we're supposed to be ninjas (honestly, I've given up on Tenno being space ninjas).
Then there's Titanfall's hip boosters:
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Titanfall's parkour is smooth and well-implemented. Granted, the rest of the game is pretty bland (it's a shooter that works), but at least they got this part right. Titanfall's boosters makes mentioning Attack of Titan redundant. They're pretty much the same thing.
For me, little boosters on the frames is the only way abilities like Slash Dash, Tail Wind, Rhino Charge, etc. make any sense. I don't see how these Warframes can propel themselves, instantly, without moving their legs. So, it'd help with that to illustrate the function of these powers and make them more visually appealing.
A quick 'class' list:
Fastest: Excal, Zephyr;
These frames already have the ability to do this, obviously there's a lot of the frame dedicated towards this feature, and there is very little weighing them down (Zephyr's Oxium even counteracts weight [science], Excalibur is naked)
Fast: Ember, Mag, Loki, Ash, Hydroid, Vauban, Volt;
These frames are already fast/light and the mechanisms for their powers probably take up less space (Ash, Loki), or their abilities could assist the boost (Flame jets for Ember, magleving for Mag, water jets for Hyrdroid, some kind of reverse Bounce for Vauban, mini-ion drives [i don't know what I'm talking about] for Volt)
Medium: Banshee, Mirage, Nekros, Nova, Nyx, Oberon, Saryn, Trinity, Valkyr;
These frames can simply 'do it' and don't have too much weighing them down.
Slow: Frost, Rhino;
The systems used by these Frames to manifest their powers, plus their overall weight (making a localized Blizzard on Phobos must require hefty hardware) requires a lot of energy to propel them and they simply don't have the room to support larger boost modules without being excessively bulky.
Just what I think. It could be argued "Oh, but Rhino has Charge," and I think that would be the extent of his boost. He knocks opponents down pretty much with his accelerated mass alone.
I just don't want to see Zorencoptering left as is. I think it's a potentially fun feature, but is held back by the fact that it's kind of an intentional glitch or side-effect of very fast melee. It should have more presence, shouldn't be held back by what melee weapon you're using (but maybe held back by the weight of your equipment). I think it would help Warframe feel like a more polished game.
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The part at 3:45 I'd at least like to see added.
I'm so tired of getting stuck on tiny lips and ledges. Really destroys flow of movement.
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My vision of Nekros' bag o' tricks:
Soul Punch:
Either a cone or horizontal cylinder (preferably cylinder, since few frames use one) where Nekros is aiming (damage is fine and effect is fine, it's like reverse Pull [i think it's called a "push"]). Having to get that little dot right on an enemy from across a room is a pain, so I'd just like some free aiming with this.
Terrify:
Spammable. It's energy cost already limits abuse. And maybe not have number of targets affects by Power Strength. Aside from Vauban, Nekros is the only frame to use this weird modifier (makes sense on Vauban's Bastille). Just have it be all enemies in a sort of small (like 10-12m) area.
Desecrate:
MAKES CORPSES EXPLODE. Take RNG out if you want, but it HAS to make corpses EXPLODE.
Shadows of the Dead:
Better AI, and give them Mysterious Shipments levels of damage according to their scaling (affected by Power Strength), done and done.
Otherwise, more health? I feel like a necromancer is always snorting up mummy dust or other weird stuff to make him more like the undead and the undead are notoriously hard to kill. No doubt, Nekros is tooling around in the Infested lab, shooting up Technocyte nanites to get more stronk.
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^ This guy knows what I'm talking about. Punch through on grapple?
DE, please.
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this is really cool ! which one will you do next ?
Nyx, probably. I don't think I'll include a lore story, since with NyxP coming out she'll probably get one soon.
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So, I like world building lore and I’m gonna write some for Warframe. Starting with Loki, he’s my fav.
“The subjects were gone.
Again.
No one ever told him where they came from. No one ever told him what their condition was. They just said “Handle with care and report anything unusual.” Children, that’s all they were. At least, some were. Others were so withered, it was as though you could look right through them. They were like…what did the Greeks call them…shades? Yeah. They were like shades; just reflections of someone else, someone dead, from sometime before. And when they looked at you, it’s like they’re looking right through you, too. And right into you…
How did this keep happening? And why hadn’t he lost his job yet? He thought for sure he would be tried the first time they vanished. But after he submitted his report, they just said “Continue.” These administrators, trying to be like the Orokin, so curt and dead-faced.
And so he did. This was the ninth incident since he received them. He knew he was part of a blind, but it didn’t relieve the sting of embarrassment, of failure, of insult. Every time he found them again, they just looked at him as if he was nothing, powerless, a joke. He was starting to wish Administration would fire him.
The northeast wing hadn’t been cleared yet. He was nearly jogging through the hyper-efficient, grayscale underbelly, hoping to get this part over with. He knew they wouldn’t be found until they wanted to be. There wasn’t much here, mostly maintenance: generators, endless wiring, and drones not programmed to be pleasant. He stumbled over a vent cleaner that couldn’t comprehend that its routine task was less important than this reoccurring crisis. And then he heard something.
Cloth sliding on metal, or superceramic, or whatever this section was optimally constructed from. Right above him. He ordered the magleving disc to open the vent access above them. A wireless “open sesame” popped the hatch as he brought an empty crate under it. It was hardly roomy, he didn’t know why he had bothered to look. It wasn’t as though he could fit. Maybe a child…
He had ordered the drone to do a rushed inspection. He remotely jacked into its camera and its eyes became his eyes. Speed increased, he hit something. Maybe a snag? A quick mm-scan revealed no obstruction. He tried to go forward again and again he hit something. And then a tiny, withered child appeared, holding its ribs. Why was it hiding in the vents? But that didn’t matter. It all made sense, now. The surveillance disruptions, the disappearances, the ghosts. It was them; this was their condition. Something tugged on his jacket and he pulled out of the drone. A boy was there and then the whole world seemed to break apart.”
___________
Out of all the Warframe designs, Loki showed to be the most attuned to the Void, if in such a subtle way. Though others could rip apart starships, set armies ablaze, Loki could only disappear. And that was invaluable. Unparalleled Void attunement gives a presence and level of control outside the Warframe, allowing for molecular manipulation and even limited interdimensional travel.
Decoy:
The Decoy is not just an optical trick. Control of Void energies allows Loki to copy and displace a fraction of its own mass. It is not dense enough to impede but enough that it reacts believably to being struck by blows, projectiles, etc. The Decoy’s awareness is not controlled artificially, but instead through a quasi-telepathic link through the Void that allows for extremely limited control.
Invisibility:
Loki is simultaneously pulled partially into the Void and pulls the Void over itself, creating an effect that does not reflect light nor even obscures vision. For Loki, sound is dampened and everything appears to be viewed through a veil. To everything else, there is simply nothing there. In this state, Loki possess no reflecting surface, no heat signature or even a stable density. This middle ground is necessary as it allows Loki to continue to interact with the physical world, while also not being cast and lost in the Void. There is enough of Loki’s physical presence that it can be harmed, so operators should take care.
Switch Teleport:
Loki creates a funnel in the Void, forcibly displacing another body of similar size. What physical science remains in the wake of the Void’s abnormality dictates that the displaced matter should be returned, and so Loki and the target simply switch places to an observer. In the case of ‘switching’ with Loki’s own Decoy, which possesses little mass, Loki simply slips into the Void and, using the Decoy as an anchor (since their mass is entangled through the Void), returns to the physical world where the Decoy was. The mass replaced is displaced again, as with any other target.
Radial Disarm:
Not innate to Lok’si development, Radial Disarm was implemented as a contingency to allow escape or to create a tactical advantage. A simultaneous EMP and radial cyber attack is emitted on command, followed by a wave of nanites that attach themselves predetermined objects identified as threats by Loki’s onboard shackled AI. These nanites coat objects (generally firearms) in a layer of inert material that prevents combustion or other chemical processes.
Yeah, I’ll probably make more of these.
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Getting grappled by Ancients through the floor...
I'm such a scrub. I should ragequit and uninstall right nao because these enemies are too stronk.
But it is annoying when good threads are brought up about enemy AI/Scaling/CC and you always have that one guy who says "just git gud".
Even Scott has taken the "git gud" position before (and got a lot of flak for it) when the suggestion for integrating handspring as just something you can do was brought up during a devstream. I know the DEvs have a lot on their plate, but sometimes they gotta sit down and really play the game. Not much, just a few hours of T3/4/Ceres survival/defense a week. Without Rhino. I think a lot of player perspectives on the game's issues would become clear.
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But he is already representing me.
Do you mean this?
This is a waste of DE(Ltd)'s time and destroys our (the players') fun with the game.
Because, y'know, now you're trying to invalidate my argument by laser-focusing on a dependent clause I typed. There are a bunch of Fallacies of logic/critical thinking/whatever and I'm pretty sure this falls into one of them (not looking it up).
I mean, I guess you like an unbalanced game. You're not the crowd I'm trying to convince. Really, I'm trying to convince some devs on some off-chance they make it thiiiiis far into the thread, but I'm pretty sure they've gotten the picture a while ago and are busy with cooler things, like Archwing.
And why are you treating this thread like an IM? You're only doing OP a favor by keeping it bumped.
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Visions of good game...
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I think this has already been addressed with Events weapons being only appreciably better than their vanillas. Especially with how easy it is for new players to acquire prime weapons via trade, I don't think new players are really missing out on anything. Some of these weapons are, after all, improvements of bad weapons, which only makes them slightly less bad (Gorgon Wraith, Wipers, Machete Wraith, etc.).
I think DE learned their lesson with the Straith (which I think was nerfed three times) that offering up such immensely powerful weapons for events puts too much power in the hands of players who were lucky enough to have free time for the event (though getting the Straith was really easy).
Also, they said these guns will come back, and new ones come around too. I think the Latron Wraith is probably the best Wraith weapon so far (in terms of usefulness to newer players), so I think DE's getting better at figuring out what the strengths for these weapons should be.
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I think it would be cool if cloak-wave flowed over the model, like this:
And he'd stay cloaked as long as you stood still! Would be hilarious when inviting people to your dojo.
I would not mind something like this if another player were to approach too close
Haaa, I see what you did there.
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Agree. Some distortion effects would look sweet. Now that people know how to block (though we still need a quick-block function), blocking should be the counter, rather than jumping over an expanding orange line.
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I claimed plenty of facts through experience (the story of Vanilla Boltor), so I don't know what you're getting at there. If you want "hard numerical evidence":
Taken from DPSFrame: Using their standard build formula for each weapon
1) Boltor Prime 16964 DPS
2) Latron Prime 13838 DPS
3) Soma 13028 DPS
etc etc it just goes from downhill from there. Boltor Prime according to DPSFrame and the majority of the community agrees that the BP is the strongest in terms of DPS
In that case, what do you think is the strongest weapon if not the BP?
And some more, from here:
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/244344-prime-weapons-some-consistency-would-be-nice/
So, I decided to take a look at the various prime weapons damage increases to see exactly how much stronger they are compared to their standard counterparts. Needless to say I honestly don't understand the logic with Prime weapons (excuse any inaccuracies, I had to use the wiki for some of these):
Weapon Normal dmg Prime dmg Dmg Increase
Boar 96 117 +22%
Boltor 25 55 +120%
Braton 20 25 +25%
Burston 30 39 +30%
Latron 55 85 +55%
Paris 75 100 +30%
Akbronco 105 105 +0%
Bronco 105 140 +34%
Lato 12 21 +75%
Lex 70 85 +21%
Sicarus 30 32 +6%
Ankyros 30 38 +27%
Fang 30 36 +20%
Glaive 105 105 +0%
Orthos 50 65 +30%
Skana 32 34 +6%
Which don't for a second take into account the Boltor Prime's incredible usability and that it's not limited by range, at least not in the context of Warframe's tile sizes. I'm talking purely from experience:
From my experience as a player who has played this game for a year and a half, the Boltor Prime is the most egregious case of power creep I have seen so far and could (and I mean that in the sense that the possibility is simply there) single-handedly restart and perpetuate a self-destructive cycle for the game that has been going on for almost a year.
That is all I said. Seriously. It took a while in my post, because I am extrapolating on every part to make sure people get it. And yeah, that sounds like exaggeration, but I've been watching it slowly happen for almost a year now. Power Creep is very real, and the Boltor Prime is strong evidence of it.
MR-locking the weapon keeps it out of the hands of new players, but it doesn't address the fact that when they get to MRwhatever, they're still probably going to see Boltor Prime as the end-all solution to Warframe's content. That's how I look at, that's what it feels like 1 hr into a T3/4.
Like a handful of OP weapons from days of Warframe yore, the Boltor Prime is in need of a nerf. These changes were good for the game as a whole. In a game of 140+ weapons to choose from, weapon balance is extremely important to the game's health, since the weapons you use are one of the major defining experiences of the game for a player.
That's the other thing I said.
You can't just invalidate someone's argument by saying "give me the facts" if the argument is derived from experience. To shorten, you can't just invalidate someone else's experience.
It's clearly NOT obvious to everyone. Please don't assume too much about the rest of us as not all of us are as into the game as you seem to be. Ok?
This is a threatened response. You were being defensive. Especially given how off-handed/non-inflammatory Archistopheles' statement was:
Because it's stronger than the automatic rifles made before it. I thought that was a given...
It's a given. You don't even have to look at the numbers. You don't even have to look at the stack of similar threads. Just go find a game with someone using Boltor Prime and watch the effortless rekage.
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When I was theorycrafting how a homing weapob might work I thought of something along the lines of mags bullet attractor.
Where the longer you hold your reticle over an enemy, the bigger the "bubble" that you can shoot at gets.
Instead of needing to get lucky with a longrange tracer, an element of skill is now involved in tracking the target in order to get the homing factor going.
This would also free up the scope for long range shots and allow the weapon to be hitscan.
Cool idea, but I like my ZF-1, er, Buzlok's intended design.
But I think it would be awesome if that was the proc effect for Magnetic damage (since 50% shield reduction is pretty underwhelming).
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I don't dislike them entirely, I think they give LokiP a pretty sick silhouette, but the fact they're just glued over the vanilla legs bothers me a lot. I'd just like it if they made a proper complete mesh of the thighs.
As for asymmetry, the pad on the right leg could probably be worked on, as it just clips into the leg. The left one at least fits on the vanilla padding.
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And that's makes your argument valid?
All argument is derived from subjective experience. So, yeah it does.
Better question, is a one sentence statement a counter-argument (yeah it is, given what I just said, but it's not very convincing)?
If you want to really argue my point (instead of not even half-assed), then do it. If you want to troll me, then do it. What you're doing is neither.
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Destroys mine.
Coming Soon: Devstream #38!
in Livestreams
Posted
So, here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/317428-refining-zorencoptering-aka-removing-the-zorens-from-zorencoptering/
Devstream #36 suggested that, yes, Zorencoptering is like Skiing in Tribes.
However, skiing in Tribes was ultimately refined and I feel this is something that should be done for Zorencoptering as well. Are there any plans to make Zorencoptering a more integrated, polished mechanic? Or even a mechanic that gives the player the same result (a quick directional boost) that we wouldn't be able to call Zorencoptering anymore (because it doesn't involves Zorens or melee coptering)?
Zorencoptering as is, bypasses a lot of balancing between Warframes (speed) and is yet another reason players favor light melee over heavy.
Looking forward to the stream!