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The reduce self-damage mod seems... Mistuned?


OvisCaedo
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I've seen a lot of people talk about how they expect that -90% self damage will result in most frames still instantly dying from one of their own attacks. I suppose there's likely to be a lot of variance on that depending on the exact explosive, but player damage IS certainly excessively scaled compared to player survivability, to the point where many seem skeptical of even a 90% reduction. But that's the commonly addressed issue, I'd like to point out a different one that the prime time revealed:

Why on earth is this a 10-rank gold mod? It's not primed, at least, but that still means that this was designed as a 30k endo cost mod that takes 12 capacity, uses up a slot, LOWERS your damage on top of that, and sounds like it still poses an extremely high chance of not actually preventing instant death. It's particularly worth pointing out that even if it barely ends up skirting the edge of some frames just scraping through not dying with it, being a reduction-based rank up, this mod will especially be near worthless at anything other than max rank. If rank 8 were 80% reduction (not quite accurate but whatever), you'd be taking TWICE as much damage as you would at full rank.

The numbers on this mod just seem very poorly thought out on multiple fronts. Especially when there's an invincible rolling mod that sounds like it would probably do a better job of letting you use explosives safely than this one would.

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9 hours ago, Jivy said:

just remove self damage from the game

I wouldn't go that far-- shooting at your rocket at your own feet should still hurt like hell. BUT, I totally agree that self-damage is way too high in this game. Players shouldn't instantly die because their solid sphere of a blast radius gently caressed the tip of their pinkie.

 

I always thought that shield-gating and self-damage could go hand in hand. Like, imagine for a second that Shields could only be damaged by 300 at most in a single tick of damage (so, if your 740-shield Warframe got shot once by a level 999999 Nullifier, you'd have 440 shields left).
This way, having >300 shields means that you could tank a single explosion from yourself; and having >600 shields (which most frames can accomplish with Redirection) would let you tank a single self-explosion with Split Chamber.

Numbers aren't perfect, but you get the general idea. Shield-gating would prevent untelegraphed instagibs at very high levels (e.g. Nullifiers, whose shots are so inaccurate that they can snipe a warframe mid-dodge from across the map by accident), and it would prevent frustrating explosive suicides, all while still letting explosives hurt like hell.

Although... it's a bit late to add something like this, I'd imagine. 😞

Edited by SortaRandom
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1 minute ago, SortaRandom said:

I wouldn't go that far-- shooting at your rocket at your own feet should still hurt like hell. BUT, I totally agree that self-damage is way too high in this game. Players shouldn't instantly die because the hard-sphere of a blast radius touched the tip of their pinky.

 

I always thought that shield-gating and self-damage could go hand in hand. Like, imagine for a second that Shields could only be damaged by 300 at most in a single tick of damage (so, if your 740-shield Warframe got shot once by a level 999999 Nullifier, you'd have 440 shields left).
This way, having >300 shields means that you could tank a single explosion from yourself; and having >600 shields (which most frames can accomplish with Redirection) would let you tank a single self-explosion with Split Chamber.

Numbers aren't perfect, but you get the general idea. Shield-gating would prevent untelegraphed instagibs at very high levels (e.g. Nullifiers or Seekers versus any frame that isn't invisible/invincible), and it would prevent frustrating explosive suicides while still letting explosives hurt like hell.

Although... bit late to add this, I'd imagine. 😞

I say the best solution would be to tune self-damage in a way that it always matches the risk and reward of the current round you are in.

For example you are fighting grineer with your ogris on earth, you one hit kill them so your rocket one hit kills you, everything is fair and fine but if you go to sortie 3 with armored grineer the system makes some calculations and finds out you deal avarage 5% damage to the grineer per shot there so now you take 5% max health damage if you miss for matching risk vs reward.

 

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10 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

Why on earth is this a 10-rank gold mod? It's not primed, at least, but that still means that this was designed as a 30k endo cost mod that takes 12 capacity, uses up a slot, LOWERS your damage on top of that, and sounds like it still poses an extremely high chance of not actually preventing instant death

because they don't actually want us to use it , or only in specific mock/troll builds, their goal is diversity, not usability of the mod system in general

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This mod is COMPLETE TRASH

You could make it -100% self-damage and 0% reduced damage and it would still be TRASH

Because you need to compare it to a primed cryo rounds which could go into the same mod slot and give +165% cold damage or any other damage mod really.

 

Nobody is going to use this trash mod and run around with only 7 real mods instead of 8 and further, all the explosive weapons which might have used this e.g. Tonkor, Secura Penta were long ago nerfed to hell and back over 1 year ago and have TRASH damage even before using this mod (and therefore giving up 1 mod worth of damage and getting -15% damage on top of that).

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