Vauban 9.8: Feedback Thread

[Dead_Rabbits]

At least lower the energy costs if we have to keep spamming bastille 2 at a time.

[Diruuo]

Stretch is what makes it viable, that idea is so horribad.

And yet it's still better then having a target limit. :P

 

 

Sorry man, but all you've done is shown that you were relying entirely on floating an entire room of enemies to use Vauban well.

Vauban can still be used well.

 

your problem doesn't lie with Vauban.

 

As a person who solo'd a lot of the game's content with Vauban, I'm pretty sure my issue doesn't "lie elsewhere". Frames are supposed to be good at something and have a disadvantage to counteract that. 

 

Nova can blow up entire rooms and one-shot T3 void mobs - she's squishy as all hell. Vauban could CC entire rooms - he's squishy as all hell. 

 

Buuuut - Rhino can CC entire rooms, while buffing his allies and simultaneously killing the aforementioned rooms. And his only downside is that he's slow. (Zorencopter trololololol)

 

Sure, Vauban can be used in the game, sure he can still run normal missions, but the thing he was good at, the thing a team relied on NO OTHER FRAME OTHER THEN VAUBAN FOR is now gone. Which makes him obsolete. The same way Volt is. There are just better options. The fact that he was only really strong on Infested Defense and not nearly as much on other defense missions shows how overestimated Bastille is. 

 

A frost single handedly makes Defense missions happen. Same with survival missions. You can not go up to high wave Corpus/Grineer defense without a Frost. Same way you couldn't go up to high Infested defense without Vauban. The thing Bastille was mostly used for can now no longer happen. And that's what kills the frame. It's not normal missions, it's not even low level Void. It's the thing Vauban was relied on for. - high level (infested) defense. Because to be as efficient as Frost at protecting a pod on Corpus/Grineer levels you'd need to throw down at least 2 Bastilles to achieve some control and Frost still trumps all of that for double the time and only 50 Energy. 

 

Just for the contrary - I'm not saying Frost is OP because he has a good Defensive skill. That's fine, if they did something to Globe that'd kill the frame. BUT, they did something to Bastille. :P Chaos was never supposed to last endlessly. Even back in closed beta it was regarded as a bug by some. ( http://youtu.be/sg2G0zcsZtI akamikeb's Nyx Crash Course from April 4, 2013 ) Thus it got fixed. Even in the Crash Course Mike mentions it - she's a one-trick pony. Kind of like Frost, kind of like Vauban, kind of even like Nova. If you take away that one trick from one of them - it kills the frame, they're no longer effective and become just downright boring. So you put it on your little shelf of "things that aren't as effective as other things" and you go back to your end game grinding with some other frame that does the job well. 

 

Being a one-trick pony with disadvantages is fun. Because it brings a feel of specialization to Frames and that's fun for the user. Vauban is no longer specialized in CC, Nyx is. And that saddens me. 

 

[EDIT] Quick edit to clear a misunderstanding up: You can not be smart with Bastille. It counts in Turrets, Cameras and has 0 target prioritization. You throw it out and hope it catches what you need it to catch. That's not being smart. That's relying on RNG. Which (again) is not fun. 

 

[EDIT] Another quick edit - I just want to mention the broken promises again. I hope this spreads the word. Game companies, game developers shouldn't make promises so lightly and then break them a few weeks later. Either we get promises that are actual promises, or we don't get any promises at all. 

Edited September 7, 2013 by Diruo

[SaitoSAC]

people like you make the game boring. overpowered is boring. WHen I play frost I get bored pushing 3 over and over again on the pod. I want challenge, tension, excitement. Not...waiting.

 

Easy. Don't use it. Don't play Vauban or Frost. Play solo as anything else if you like challenge. Ask in your clan or the recruitment chat for people who like that kind of challenge. Don't ask for nerfs if you don't need them.

You have alternatives. Use an ability or play a frame or don't. If you take away abilities you don't have alternatives anymore.

[Mak_Gohae]

And yet it's still better then having a target limit. :P

 

 

 

As a person who solo'd a lot of the game's content with Vauban, I'm pretty sure my issue doesn't "lie elsewhere". Frames are supposed to be good at something and have a disadvantage to counteract that. 

 

Nova can blow up entire rooms and one-shot T3 void mobs - she's squishy as all hell. Vauban could CC entire rooms - he's squishy as all hell. 

 

Buuuut - Rhino can CC entire rooms, while buffing his allies and simultaneously killing the aforementioned rooms. And his only downside is that he's slow. (Zorencopter trololololol)

 

Sure, Vauban can be used in the game, sure he can still run normal missions, but the thing he was good at, the thing a team relied on NO OTHER FRAME OTHER THEN VAUBAN FOR is now gone. Which makes him obsolete. The same way Volt is. There are just better options. The fact that he was only really strong on Infested Defense and not nearly as much on other defense missions shows how overestimated Bastille is. 

 

A frost single handedly makes Defense missions happens. Same with survival missions. You can not go up to high wave Corpus/Grineer defense without a Frost. Same way you couldn't go up to high Infested defense without Vauban. The thing Bastille was mostly used for can now no longer happen. And that's what kills the frame. It's not normal missions, it's not even low level Void. It's the thing Vauban was relied on for. - high level (infested) defense. Because to be as efficient as Frost at protecting a pod on Corpus/Grineer levels you'd need to throw down at least 2 Bastilles to achieve some control and Frost still trumps all of that for double the time and only 50 Energy. 

 

Just for the contrary - I'm not saying Frost is OP because he has a good Defensive skill. That's fine, if they did something to Globe that'd kill the frame. BUT, they did something to Bastille. :P Chaos was never supposed to last endlessly. Even back in closed beta it was regarded as a bug by some. ( http://youtu.be/sg2G0zcsZtI akamikeb's Nyx Crash Course from April 4, 2013 ) Thus it got fixed. Even in the Crash Course Mike mentions it - she's a one-trick pony. Kind of like Frost, kind of like Vauban, kind of even like Nova. If you take away that one trick from one of them - it kills the frame, they're no longer effective and become just downright boring. So you put it on your little shelf of "things that aren't as effective as other things" and you go back to your end game grinding with some other frame that does the job well. 

 

Being a one-trick pony with disadvantages is fun. Because it brings a feel of specialization to Frames and that's fun for the user. Vauban is no longer specialized in CC, Nyx is. And that saddens me. 

 

[EDIT] Quick edit to clear a misunderstanding up: You can not be smart with Bastille. It counts in Turrets, Cameras and has 0 target prioritization. You throw it out and hope it catches what you need it to catch. That's not being smart. That's relying on RNG. Which (again) is not fun. 

 

Last time i checked Vauban STILL has 3 other CC abilities.

 

 

Im beginning to believe DE should just take away the option to remove powers because every time they adjust "that one power" everyone comes crying about how a whole frame is rooined.

[Diruuo]

Last time i checked Vauban STILL has 3 other CC abilities.

 

 

Im beginning to believe DE should just take away the option to remove powers because every time they adjust "that one power" everyone comes crying about how a whole frame is rooined.

Bounce is EXTREMELY UNRELIABLE as a CC ability and Vortex fills an entirely different void which makes it so that enemies go down more slowly. With the few exceptions of maybe the Torid, Ogris or Puncture mods, Vortex actually lowered the damage for competent squads. And could only be effectively used as a CC tool in choke points. It's radius isn't large enough to be used reliably. (I guess the buff to it this patch makes it a lot more reliable to use...)  

 

Bounce is not a CC ability. Yes, Vortex is, but it does something entirely different then Bastille, thank god at least it still feels like an ultimate, and his Bastille, this one thing he could do better then anyone else is now gone. 

 

P.S. You used a 1-line reply for my several paragraph long post to tell me he has 3 CC abilities, which makes you sound like a person who's never even played Vauban... 

[Itsdoodoobaby]

Nerfing Bastille was bold call, but it isn't a bad one.

 Before the latest patch, a vauban could cast Bastille and render the most vicious, high lvl mobs into a GLORIFIED SHOOTING GALLERY. There was no stress, barely any urgency from the vauban and teammates, and most importantly, no fun! Wave after wave you see the same thing: vauban pops Bastille; teammates fire at helpless ducks (targets); vauban grabs energy from fallen when it's safe; wave completed. Where is the challenge from an endgame content (which is suppose to be challenging) when a vauban can literally cast Bastille and alt tab out until the duration of Bastille expires?

There is no need to compensate bring other Warframes down to vaubans level, for the simple fact that most other warframes' abilities does not render high level completely helpless... MOST (Freaking Nyx's 30 second aoe mind rape)! Frost's Snow globe is a great example of a truly balanced aoe defensive ability. 

Snow globe doesn't help much in stopping infested, whose tactic is to charge people.

Snow globe can be pierced by Railgun Moas, while Shockwave Moas knocks tenno out of globe. Fusion Moas, as always, do not give a S#&$ and charge inside the globe melting faces.

Heavy grineer also have the potential to knock tenno out of the Snow globe and have been known to charge inside them. Sorches, Flameblades, Powerfists, Sawmen, and Shield lancers all charge into the globe as well.

As you can see Snow globe is a useful tool, but the tenno's inside have to remain vigilant, as there are work arounds the enemy A.I can $&*^ you with... Same work arounds for Molecular prime or Iron skin or Radial blind (Still not going to touch on Chaos).

I don't think nerfing Bastille was the greatest idea ever but it was a step in the right direction. Personally, I would have added a couple of new range infested enemies that like to target tabbed out vaubans that like to watch porn while everyone else does the dirty work. =D

TL;DR Bastille nerf increases certain challenges to endgame content. Saying vauban is useless is uncreative and ignorant.   

[BlissfulAokii]

I'm totally digging the Vortex not affecting Tenno, can't tell you how annoying it was to be stuck in those. Esp with Toxics around D<!

[Bakonburger]

Its great it got nerfed a bit cus unlimited enemies are to much but atleast 20 enemies at full rank... pls... its useless at infested now... I also agree with that guy pls add something else than jump pad lol, or buff teslas a little it only works up to wave 15 pretty much..

[Huntarz]

Congratulations! You have officially made Vauban useless! His Bastille was the only usefull skil in high level maps... I understand it was maybe a bit too OP, but 12!? 12 enemies on MAX? Dafuq? 20 had been OK, or maybe the 13th enemy and upwards would be reduced to half speed I dunno, BUT 12!? 

[zombaio]

"Vauban is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

"Nova is great! I need her!" - buuys her for Plat

Vauban is no longer a source of income, since Nova came out and Necro is near, so DE can nerf him.

"Necro is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

Nova is no longer a source of income, since Necro came out and XXX is near, so DE can nerf her.

"XXX is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

Necro is no longer a source of income, since XXX came out and YYY is near, so DE can nerf him.

 

Repeat.

And this is what makes it especially ugly. Predatory business practices and unfair marketing are defining characteristicses of Free to play models, unfortunately.

[Mak_Gohae]

Bounce is EXTREMELY UNRELIABLE as a CC ability and Vortex fills an entirely different void which makes it so that enemies go down more slowly. With the few exceptions of maybe the Torid, Ogris or Puncture mods, Vortex actually lowered the damage for competent squads. And could only be effectively used as a CC tool in choke points. It's radius isn't large enough to be used reliably. (I guess the buff to it this patch makes it a lot more reliable to use...)  

 

Bounce is not a CC ability. Yes, Vortex is, but it does something entirely different then Bastille, thank god at least it still feels like an ultimate, and his Bastille, this one thing he could do better then anyone else is now gone. 

 

 

 

How is bounce not a CC? If an enemy gets on it he get launched, ragdoll, then has to get up.

Vortex is a different type of CC? Sure. Never said it was the same as Bastille but it's still a CC.

And you can also CC with Tesla.

You have 3 different types of CC on top of the Bastille and are calling him useless?

Huh?

 

P.S. You used a 1-line reply for my several paragraph long post to tell me he has 3 CC abilities, which makes you sound like a person who's never even played Vauban...

 

I am person that didnt constantly cast Bastille over and over and over again.

I actually Forma my Vauban once so that means i leveled the dude TWO times.

 

 

I say again, DE should make powers mandatory so we stop getting these silly post where people just equip one ability that they rely on and ignore everything else. Because this reliance on this one ability results in these goofy ideas of what the Warframe "should play " like.

[userbeneficiary]

I dislike the new bastile as it is....   Vauban WAS the frame i played more<

only 12 ??? i dont see that limitation on the other frames, and i hope never do ...

Please revert! 

 

The vortex is better now, otherwise .. for me this frame is broken and no more my favorite for def mission on infested. 

RIP Vauban

[Dreamcane]

Feedback

 

- Bastille:

Good for me. It was really op. Now other warframe can help you with their control power and this will make game only more interesting. And if you really want to make inpenetrable barier just use two Bastilles instead of one. Sounds pretty fair for me.

 

- Vortex:

Hallelujah!

[Seasoap]

Vauban almost as useless as volt. Reading from the wiki "Note that enemies suspended in one Bastille will count towards the enemy count in another instance of Bastille if the other one also touches the enemies. (in other words place your bastilles in a way so they do not touch each other)" Really has the put the nail in the coffin to vauban. Sure 12 enemies was low maybe something like 20 would have been better. But your going to have to basically have two bastilles at the same time and at 150 energy to stop 24 enemies (30 with focus). It just doesn't seem viable anymore. They need to either lower the energy cost to 50/increase enemies stopped/slow other enemies not affected by Bastille  Furthermore they could have made the old Bastille, Vauban's ulti instead of Vortex and seriously no nerf to nova?
 

Edited September 7, 2013 by Seasoap

[Tenyu]

Good job DE! You just made lots of vauban players hate you now :D.

 

Also, (this is just me) BUT THERE IS NO. I SAY NO POINT IF I CAN'T USE VORTEX TO TROLL OTHER PLAYERS. BRING TROLLBAN BACK! 

 

Sad face. D=

[Ddublu]

I was going to say that this change to Bastille was a bad one; but after some thought it's function is still the same so long as the players arent lazy during infested defense. Pretty much means that the players would have to actively kill the mobs running into the Bastille field; else get swarmed, WHICH THEY SHOULD BE DOING ANYWAY :D.

A possible buff for Tesla could possibly be the speed at which it fires? or the number of targets it will hit. I've not played as Vauban yet so I'm unsure about his capabilities but the zap timer on Tesla from what I've seen seems a little... wonky.

One last note. According to the wiki, the number of targets is affected by Focus? So would that mean with a max Focus one Bastille can stop... roughly 16 enemies? Also would stacking Bastille achieve the same affect as pre-patch Bastille?

[BonneyZILLA]

The bastille change makes me sad.

 

It seems that Vauban can no longer create "a deadly environment" if his Bastille ability is limited.

 

Moreover, how can Vauban sacrifice his own safety and assist his teammates by manipilating his surroundings if his Bastille is limited? 

 

Surely Vauban does not have a super ability like Slash Dash that causes almost instant kill, but his Bastille is what made him unique along with his gun power.

 

Please revert this change.

 

[kelladros]

I have found that the changes to Bastille have made little to no difference in any game mod except defense and mobile defense missions and even then mostly for infested ones. The main change is that it makes the game way more intense and fun! How cool is it to throw a bastille down and feel safe when suddenly several infested bust through, what do you do? Do you throw another down to contain them or do you try and thin them out before the rest fall? It adds more strategy to the game but not too too much which is a good thing. Its not like it takes lots of planning to do it, I mean if you reach the limit on one bastille just through down another, if you are really that worried. All in all good change lots of fun. I won't lie however I am going to miss some of the crazy stupid funny silly stuff that vortex caused other frames to do haha.

[Y8280]

"Vauban is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

"Nova is great! I need her!" - buuys her for Plat

Vauban is no longer a source of income, since Nova came out and Necro is near, so DE can nerf him.

"Necro is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

Nova is no longer a source of income, since Necro came out and XXX is near, so DE can nerf her.

"XXX is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

Necro is no longer a source of income, since XXX came out and YYY is near, so DE can nerf him.

 

Repeat.

haha, awesome! :D

[Zakalwe]

 

 

Sure, Vauban can be used in the game, sure he can still run normal missions, but the thing he was good at, the thing a team relied on NO OTHER FRAME OTHER THEN VAUBAN FOR is now gone. Which makes him obsolete.

Nope. He can still do exactly what he did, he just doesn't make high end Xini easy mode.

This is the absolute truth of it. He is still an amazing frame.

 

If you are having difficulty, your issue doesn't lie with the frame.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Zakalwe

[MuhhhhKuh]

Is this OP status based on the point of view of DE...or the player's? Because this kinda makes me curious.

 

Do you ever used bastille against infested? i think you have done it, and how could you tell that it is not OP to imobilize ALL and every enmemie???

 

i cant understand those easy mode guys....

 

12 is ok i think, with focus it is around 15 so hope it is less enough to let some enemies pass through it but high enough to make it not worthless. But from the reading it sounds ok.

[Diruuo]

How is bounce not a CC? If an enemy gets on it he get launched, ragdoll, then has to get up.

Vortex is a different type of CC? Sure. Never said it was the same as Bastille but it's still a CC.

And you can also CC with Tesla.

You have 3 different types of CC on top of the Bastille and are calling him useless?

Huh?

 

 

 

 

I am person that didnt constantly cast Bastille over and over and over again.

I actually Forma my Vauban once so that means i leveled the dude TWO times.

 

 

I say again, DE should make powers mandatory so we stop getting these silly post where people just equip one ability that they rely on and ignore everything else. Because this reliance on this one ability results in these goofy ideas of what the Warframe "should play " like.

If you've bothered reading this topic or at least my other replies on it you'd see that my Vauban is forma'd not once, but 4 times before the Aura system even came into play. I probably have more hours on Vauban alone then a some people on this thread have total and I also always run Vauban with 3 of his 4 abilities (Bounce is just too unreliable to be useful). 

 

Bounce is so unreliable in fact, and has such a high energy consumption rate that it is practically useless as a CC and is definitely not worth the spot in the Arsenal. Yes, Tesla can stagger some smaller enemies, that's why I still bring it along even on high level missions, but, once again, it's not effective even in the slightest as a CC tool. I need to expend 150+ energy for either several Bastilles, a bunch of Teslas or 3 Bounce pads to achieve what Nyx gets with a single press of 3 and 52 energy. 

 

I also never talked about difficulty, you are all missing the point of my post entirely.

 

What would you do if your frame was robbed of it's purpose? I'm pretty sure I can still solo almost anything on my Vauban, but the one thing he was good at, the one thing he was better then others at was high level Crowd Control, Same with Nyx. Now he is no longer good at that. He's no longer specialized in something. And that's just lame. 

 

How would you feel if Trinity suddenly no longer provided an Invulnerability during Blessing? How would you feel if Snow Globe suddenly got a Damage limit, how would you feel if Shooting Chaos'd enemies removed the effect? 

 

Frames SHOULD be specialized. Nova is REAL GOOD at blowing S#&amp;&#036; up. Take that away from her and she loses her niche. She loses her feel. She looses her essence. Same with the few examples above. 

 

What happens to Frost if he's no longer the pillar of Defense missions? What happens to Nova if she can no longer blow entire rooms up? 

 

I don't bother talking about difficulty of the game. I talk about purposes and how every frame should have one. I've cleared almost the entire Star Chart solo, including a lot of defense (which Mind you I end up soloing on my Frost to get the mission cleared) 

 

Already am I seeing people not want Vauban in groups because they'd "rather get a Nyx"... A day after the patch! 

 

No, this is not and never has been about difficulty of the game. This is about frames and their playstyles. When you rob a frame from his playstyle, it feels nasty for the player, and THIS specific thing Digital Extremes promised they will not do. 

 

I was never able to tank on my Vauban, I was never able to do a lot of skill-based damage, I always had to rely on optimized loadouts to get everything out of it and the one thing I had going for me, being the god of CC alongside Nyx, got removed from me. Now I have even more unreliable CC that lets all sorts of things through and can't be used in the area of the game where it needs to be used. 

[LostShadow]

now, vauban is worst frame... Loki is better than vauban with "radial disarm"... get back old bastill on vauban and look NOVA! she is 1000× OP than any other frame its have 4 power that deal 400+ dmg... what vauban can, just stand at place and cover it, btw. he dont have any good power beside (old) bastille. change it bact to old, or change it that bastille deal 50+ dmg per sec, or 30+ mobs at once. and change vortex to deal some more dmg, and replace bounce with something like laser

Edited September 7, 2013 by LostShadow

[Zakalwe]

12 enemies is MORE Than enough for the majority of missions.

 

Last night I did a bunch of T1, 2, and 3

I farmed Vay Hek, Raptor, and Golem.

I played Xini to 20

I did a bunch of random mob defense

I tried low level content with unlevelled gear.

 

I just solod half of plut with my vauban, didn't die once, moved fast, he is still incredibly powerful and efficient IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE HIM.

 

If you don't consider Tesla and Votex good powers, if you don't know how to use these powers to make your weapons more efficient, then you NEED to relearn the class.

 

If your mindset is "Bastille must not have limit for Vauban to be effective", then your mindset is wrong. I didn't notice a drop otff in my ability to move through content AT ALL.

 

This change can't even be noticed in 99% of the game.

Vauban is fine. If you're having trouble now the problem is NOT with the frame.

[Diruuo]

12 enemies is MORE Than enough for the majority of missions.

 

Last night I did a bunch of T1, 2, and 3

I farmed Vay Hek, Raptor, and Golem.

I played Xini to 20

I did a bunch of random mob defense

I tried low level content with unlevelled gear.

 

I just solod half of plut with my vauban, didn't die once, moved fast, he is still incredibly powerful and efficient IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE HIM.

 

If you don't consider Tesla and Votex good powers, if you don't know how to use these powers to make your weapons more efficient, then you NEED to relearn the class.

 

If your mindset is "Bastille must not have limit for Vauban to be effective", then your mindset is wrong. I didn't notice a drop otff in my ability to move through content AT ALL.

 

This change can't even be noticed in 99% of the game.

Vauban is fine. If you're having trouble now the problem is NOT with the frame.

I feel like you're not even reading my posts, lol. Let me reiterate: 

 

 

If you've bothered reading this topic or at least my other replies on it you'd see that my Vauban is forma'd not once, but 4 times before the Aura system even came into play. I probably have more hours on Vauban alone then a some people on this thread have total and I also always run Vauban with 3 of his 4 abilities (Bounce is just too unreliable to be useful). 

 

 

 

 

 

What would you do if your frame was robbed of it's purpose? I'm pretty sure I can still solo almost anything on my Vauban, but the one thing he was good at, the one thing he was better then others at was high level Crowd Control, Same with Nyx. Now he is no longer good at that. He's no longer specialized in something. And that's just lame. 

 

 

 

 

As a person who solo'd a lot of the game's content with Vauban, I'm pretty sure my issue doesn't "lie elsewhere". Frames are supposed to be good at something and have a disadvantage to counteract that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, Vauban can be used in the game, sure he can still run normal missions, but the thing he was good at, the thing a team relied on NO OTHER FRAME OTHER THEN VAUBAN FOR is now gone. Which makes him obsolete. The same way Volt is. There are just better options. The fact that he was only really strong on Infested Defense and not nearly as much on other defense missions shows how overestimated Bastille is. 

 

I even SAY that Bastille is overestimated... 

 

You people still go on and on about this and that while ENTIRELY missing the point of my posts.