Vauban 9.8: Feedback Thread

[Zakalwe]

at wave 100 nothing is op

And wave 100 should never have been that easy to achieve.

[Diruuo]

And many more across the forums are agreeing with me. They're just not coming here to discuss it because they understand the futilty of banging their ahead against a wall, something I'm obviously too thick to recognise...

 

Yet he isn't obsolete. 

In every single mode aside from Xini, he is still just as strong as before.

You can still control the entire room.

The majority of the time, there won't be more than 12 enemies within range to float in any other modes aside from defense, so the majority of the time it doesn't matter.

When it does matter, when the change makes Bastille less effective to the point it hinders you, when you can't kill quick enough to keep replacing enemies in the prison... this ONLY occurs in endless defense at high waves.

So, if he's perfectly viable in the majority of the game...

If the ONLY place this change is causing you trouble is the one mode that it was able to exploit before and make too easy...

If you're calling for the skill to be reverted because of this...

Then you're asking us to balance the game against Endles Defense. 

 

It's the same with every frame. POwers on release are either too much or too little, they're rarely balanced from the off. And, as other aspects of th game change, powers that were once more in line with the norm require changes.

This is how development works, and what being part of a beta means.

They're trying to develop the game, not stagnate.

 

First off, no, he's not great at CC. No point in even using Bastille now. If things are gonna go through it and you need to hold them off with Vortex why use Bastille anyway? Just use multiple vortexes, which is less effective then using a single Chaos or a single Snow Globe. 

 

Second - YOU WERE THE ONE talking about Endless Defense and balancing around that. Not me. I hate Endless Defense. But you seem to not understand how Online Communities work. Online communities, Warframe's community makes DE balance around Endless Defense, not me, I wouldn't care less about it. It's boring, mind-numbing and shouldn't be the center of the game. But it is. 

 

Endless Defense is the "Big thing" right now. If your frame is good at it, it's "OP". IF your frame sucks at it (Ash, Volt), he's UP. Vauban now sucks at it, thus, becoming obsolete. Being Obsolote: ob·so·lete  

/ˌäbsəˈlēt/

 

Adjective

No longer produced or used; out of date.

 

Verb

Cause (a product or idea) to be or become obsolete by replacing it with something new: "we're obsoleting last year's designs".

 

Synonyms

antiquated - out-of-date - outdated - old-fashioned

 

Whether or not he's actually strong is irrelevant. It's the public opinion. We're a day after the patch and I have people flaming me for picking Vauban for Mobile Defense... Really now? 

 

Also, if this was how development is done, a lot of skills that achieve more then Bastille would also be nerfed. The sole reason why this was nerfed is because the community cried. It's the same reason why he'll drop off viability, because of the community. 

 

God, why am I doing this to myself. You just don't get it. You genuinely do not get it. 

 

Aight. I'm done. 

 

P.S. Maybe Necro will be fun, he should have a deployable totem, that might be interesting. Might try that when it launches. 

Edited September 7, 2013 by Diruo

[Zakalwe]

First off, no, he's not great at CC. No point in even using Bastille now. If things are gonna go through it and you need to hold them off with Vortex why use Bastille anyway? Just use multiple vortexes, which is less effective then using a single Chaos or a single Snow Globe. 

 

I can prove to you he is still good using Bastille, and Telsa, and Vortex all together as you should.

Add me in game, choose any mode.

The proof is in the results, and I've been getting results with him in every game since the change.

 

Second - YOU WERE THE ONE talking about Endless Defense and balancing around that. Not me. I hate Endless Defense. But you seem to not understand how Online Communities work. Online communities, Warframe's community makes DE balance around Endless Defense, not me, I wouldn't care less about it. It's boring, mind-numbing and shouldn't be the center of the game. But it is. 

 

Bastille is still effective in EVERY other mode. This is a fact. I can prove it to you right now.

So, if the ONLY place this change has "broken" Bastille is endless defense, and you want it put back because Vauban is now broken entirely, then you are wanting to balance around Endless Defense.

Do you not understand this?

Edited September 7, 2013 by Zakalwe

[bluehawk1976]

pqr Played a few missions and found it great that Vortex didn't interfere with playing.

As for Bastille, still very usefull, and if you need control on bigger crouds - jtust use several.

[Zakalwe]

Diruo, I sent you a friend request in game.

Apologies for being rude, I would like to show you how Vauban and Bastille can still be effective.

If you would like to show me why you think it isn't, in game would be the best place to do this.

Feel free to accept my offer of apology and chance to research this, or not.

I won't be offended if you don't want to.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Diruuo]

I told you this same thing several times and you ask me the same question. Are you seriously not reading or are you seriously failing to comprehend what I'm saying? 

 

Second - YOU WERE THE ONE talking about Endless Defense and balancing around that. Not me. I hate Endless Defense. But you seem to not understand how Online Communities work. Online communities, Warframe's community makes DE balance around Endless Defense, not me, I wouldn't care less about it. It's boring, mind-numbing and shouldn't be the center of the game. But it is. 

 

Endless Defense is the "Big thing" right now. If your frame is good at it, it's "OP". IF your frame sucks at it (Ash, Volt), he's UP. Vauban now sucks at it, thus, becoming Obsolete in the community's eyes. 

 

P.S. Also, please, I don't need you to show me jack S#&$. I have so many hours in Vauban. Even post-nerf I'm perfectly aware of how he plays. And if I have so many enemies as to resort to Bastille it's too many enemies even for it. I use a Flux rifle, mobs don't live much. I rarely use Bastille in normal mission running. I use it when I get overwhelmed. And when that happens, post-nerf, Bastille doesn't help me out. Because if I'm overwhelmed the enemies are more then 12. And they go through Bastille. So I just throw down a Vortex. I shouldn't even bother using Bastille now. I'm filling up the holes in Bastille with Vortex anyway, so why waste the energy on Bastille. 

[Diruuo]

Diruo, I sent you a friend request in game. 

I apologies for being rude, I would like to show you how Vauban and Bastille can still be effective.

If you would like to show me why you think it isn't, in game would be the best place to do this.

Feel free to accept my offer of apology and research, or not.

I won't be offended if you don't want to.

Get the F out, lol. I don't need you to show me anything. You're going on and on about how incompetent I am and now you sent me a friend request to SHOW ME HOW TO PLAY? I have 550 hours in this game, I don't need some guy trying to be all offensive and aggressive on me to show me anything. Thank you very much. 

[Zakalwe]

Get the F out, lol. I don't need you to show me anything. You're going on and on about how incompetent I am and now you sent me a friend request to SHOW ME HOW TO PLAY? I have 550 hours in this game, I don't need some guy trying to be all offensive and aggressive on me to show me anything. Thank you very much. 

Fair enough.

If anyone else who thinks Vauban is now useless would like to be proven wrong, send me a friend request any time. :)

[Zakalwe]

. Also, please, I don't need you to show me jack S#&$. I have so many hours in Vauban. Even post-nerf I'm perfectly aware of how he plays. And if I have so many enemies as to resort to Bastille it's too many enemies even for it. I use a Flux rifle, mobs don't live much. I rarely use Bastille in normal mission running. I use it when I get overwhelmed. And when that happens, post-nerf, Bastille doesn't help me out. Because if I'm overwhelmed the enemies are more then 12. And they go through Bastille. So I just throw down a Vortex. I shouldn't even bother using Bastille now. I'm filling up the holes in Bastille with Vortex anyway, so why waste the energy on Bastille. 

At what point in the game, aside from high end Endless Defense, is there ever a point that you need to lift more than 12 people that means you will die easily if you don't?

[RushingL]

 

Fair enough.

If anyone else who thinks Vauban is now useless would like to be proven wrong, send me a friend request any time. :)

Just sent an /invite RushingL ingame, but it seems like you went offline when I tried to make contact with you, so what are you planning?

 

Anyway, I don't need prove from you because I played at least 50 hours with vauban in this game and it seems like worthless from wave 20 because the leapers just run trough it knocking your cryopod. That vauban is worth playing during capture or somewhat is just an opinion when some quick guys are just running till the end of the level and you are missing your final credits.

Edited September 7, 2013 by RushingL

[Zakalwe]

Just sent an /invite RushingL ingame, but it seems like you went offline when I tried to make contact with you, so what are you planning?

 

Anyway, I don't need prove from you because I played at least 50 hours with vauban in this game and it seems like worthless from wave 20 because the leapers just run trough it knocking your cryopod. That vauban is worth playing during capture or somewhat is just an opinion when some quick guys are just running till the end of the level and you are missing your final credits.

Add me to friends and we can make a run in a few minutes.

With a good team you can easily make it past 20... that's not the end for current Bastille.

And I said ANY mode... If you think Vauban is only good in Defense...

[RushingL]

For other modes I prefer other wwarframes if that's not a problem to you because they are more powerfull. ;)

Add me to friends and we can make a run in a few minutes.

With a good team you can easily make it past 20... that's not the end for current Bastille.

And I said ANY mode... If you think Vauban is only good in Defense...

[Dasmir]

"Vauban is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

"Nova is great! I need her!" - buuys her for Plat

Vauban is no longer a source of income, since Nova came out and Necro is near, so DE can nerf him.

"Necro is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

Nova is no longer a source of income, since Necro came out and XXX is near, so DE can nerf her.

"XXX is great! I need him!" - buys him for Plat.

Necro is no longer a source of income, since XXX came out and YYY is near, so DE can nerf him.

 

Repeat.

 

You just explained League of legend economy.

[Zakalwe]

For other modes I prefer other wwarframes if that's not a problem to you because they are more powerfull. ;)

Oh, indeed. Th difference I guess is that I enjoy the process of playing the game, and Vauban's style appeals to me. I enjoy trying to keep up with other frames in co-op games, and I do.

I totally get if you prefer to do it faster though, I'm sure I'll get board of the content and just fall into the grind at some point  soon. :p

[WeissKreuz]

Vauban. Time of death, 9am... 9/6/4013

Edited September 7, 2013 by WeissKreuz

[GingerSmurfsown]

your time on survival on corpus?

near an hour, I forget the exact time. Point is the Bastille is still very powerful, if you know who to target and have a squad of decent players you can still have one of the best CC abilities plus Vortex is useful now. Vauban is still a spectacular frame, instead of complaining two days into the change people should be out trying the new skills. If you would spend some time in game you would see it is still amazing

[GingerSmurfsown]

To anyone who thinks Bastille is ineffective in game...

Add me to friends, we'll play any mode you want. I'll show you it works perfectly across the board.

 

I double this. Bastille is still more than capable of doing its job. 12 mobs (16 with focus) is more than enough, those who think differently need to spend some time in game and look for themselves.

[Zakalwe]

I double this. Bastille is still more than capable of doing its job. 12 mobs (16 with focus) is more than enough, those who think differently need to spend some time in game and look for themselves.

Exactly. 

Thanks Ginger! :)

[Mak_Gohae]

Bounce is so unreliable in fact, and has such a high energy consumption rate that it is practically useless as a CC and is definitely not worth the spot in the Arsenal

 

Never had Bounce fail once. And 50 isnt a whole lot for Mr. Energy Vauban.

BTW, you should not use Bounce for standard targets at every chance, bounce you should use to quickly immobilize the heavy units. Talking about wasting energy, if it's just one heavy coming and several small target you can take care off you can just throw a Bounce pad toward the heavy and deal with the rest.

 

. Yes, Tesla can stagger some smaller enemies, that's why I still bring it along even on high level missions, but, once again, it's not effective even in the slightest as a CC tool.

 

How is it not effective? Give a least one reason instead of simply saying no and moving on.

I have done T3 solo with Vauban by pressing nothing but 1.

 

 

I need to expend 150+ energy for either several Bastilles, a bunch of Teslas or 3 Bounce pads to achieve what Nyx gets with a single press of 3 and 52 energy.

 

Oh boy, here we go again, comparing one power effect to another and ignoring everything around it.

Chaos target can still attack you, to start, but then on top of that Chaos cannot be cast again until every target who is under the effect is killed. Nyx cannot create the safety that Vauban create with any sort of degree.

 

 

I also never talked about difficulty, you are all missing the point of my post entirely.

 

The word "difficulty" didnt appear in the post you quoted so...i dont know what you are talking about.

 

 

What would you do if your frame was robbed of it's purpose?

 

When did DE state that the purpose of Vauban is to only press 3? Pretty sure they made the other 3 powers to be used. This is the same silliness as Rhino, they change IS and all of a sudden there was a group of people that didnt know how to play the dude. It's humorous.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I can still solo almost anything on my Vauban, but the one thing he was good at, the one thing he was better then others at was high level Crowd Control, Same with Nyx. Now he is no longer good at that. He's no longer specialized in something. And that's just lame.

 

He still can created constant safety zones in the battle field like no other. FACT.

I cant believe a person that claims he forma this frame four times can make this statement.

You dont know Vauban, all you now how to do is press 3 continuously.

This is exactly the type of player that no one should listen to because he has no insight on the actual gameplay of THE Warframe.

 

 

How would you feel if Trinity suddenly no longer provided an Invulnerability during Blessing?

 

You should feel bad because she has no other defensive capabilities.

Vauban still has 3 other different kinds of CCs on top of Bastille. And it's not like Bastille was robbed of the effect, it was just tuned down.

 

 

How would you feel if Snow Globe suddenly got a Damage limit,

 

Well, this is the ONLY defensive ability Frost has so this would be a more serious hit than Vauban but i would not mind this.

 

 

how would you feel if Shooting Chaos'd enemies removed the effect? 

 

This..... this, technically, actually happens. Enemies can attack you if you attack them and you are the closest.

 

 

Frames SHOULD be specialized.

 

He is still specialized. No one can CC like he does.

Changing one power just lower the effectiveness of one power a bit which you can obviously make up with some mods that would let you cast more.

 

Again, the idea that the adjustment of one power when he has 3 other in tremendously humorous.

 

Nova is REAL GOOD at blowing S#&$ up. Take that away from her and she loses her niche. She loses her feel. She looses her essence. Same with the few examples above.

So Vauban can no longer CC because of the limit?

Really? Really? Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally?

 

 

What happens to Frost if he's no longer the pillar of Defense missions? What happens to Nova if she can no longer blow entire rooms up?

 

What happens if you bother to use some of the other powers the Warframe has?

 

 

I don't bother talking about difficulty of the game. I talk about purposes and how every frame should have one. I've cleared almost the entire Star Chart solo, including a lot of defense (which Mind you I end up soloing on my Frost to get the mission cleared) 

 

Already am I seeing people not want Vauban in groups because they'd "rather get a Nyx"... A day after the patch!

 

These are stupid people. Simple as that.

No one can CC like Vauban even in his newer state.

People that think he cant do what he did before are people that simply dont know how to play the game and no one should be listening to them.

 

 

No, this is not and never has been about difficulty of the game. This is about frames and their playstyles. When you rob a frame from his playstyle, it feels nasty for the player, and THIS specific thing Digital Extremes promised they will not do.

 

Can you define playstyle for me because i seem to be the actual person talking about playstyle while you just want ONE power to function like before. That's not playstyle that's crying about ONE power.

 

I was never able to tank on my Vauban, I was never able to do a lot of skill-based damage, I always had to rely on optimized loadouts to get everything out of it and the one thing I had going for me, being the god of CC alongside Nyx, got removed from me. Now I have even more unreliable CC that lets all sorts of things through and can't be used in the area of the game where it needs to be used.

 

If you cant perform Vauban's job without old Bastille you dont know how to play Vauban.

FACT.

[Zakalwe]

 

Never had Bounce fail once. And 50 isnt a whole lot for Mr. Energy Vauban.

BTW, you should not use Bounce for standard targets at every chance, bounce you should use to quickly immobilize the heavy units. Talking about wasting energy, if it's just one heavy coming and several small target you can take care off you can just throw a Bounce pad toward the heavy and deal with the rest.

 

 

How is it not effective? Give a least one reason instead of simply saying no and moving on.

I have done T3 solo with Vauban by pressing nothing but 1.

 

 

 

Oh boy, here we go again, comparing one power effect to another and ignoring everything around it.

Chaos target can still attack you, to start, but then on top of that Chaos cannot be cast again until every target who is under the effect is killed. Nyx cannot create the safety that Vauban create with any sort of degree.

 

 

 

The word "difficulty" didnt appear in the post you quoted so...i dont know what you are talking about.

 

 

 

When did DE state that the purpose of Vauban is to only press 3? Pretty sure they made the other 3 powers to be used. This is the same silliness as Rhino, they change IS and all of a sudden there was a group of people that didnt know how to play the dude. It's humorous.

 

 

 

He still can created constant safety zones in the battle field like no other. FACT.

I cant believe a person that claims he forma this frame four times can make this statement.

You dont know Vauban, all you now how to do is press 3 continuously.

This is exactly the type of player that no one should listen to because he has no insight on the actual gameplay of THE Warframe.

 

 

 

You should feel bad because she has no other defensive capabilities.

Vauban still has 3 other different kinds of CCs on top of Bastille. And it's not like Bastille was robbed of the effect, it was just tuned down.

 

 

 

Well, this is the ONLY defensive ability Frost has so this would be a more serious hit than Vauban but i would not mind this.

 

 

 

This..... this, technically, actually happens. Enemies can attack you if you attack them and you are the closest.

 

 

 

He is still specialized. No one can CC like he does.

Changing one power just lower the effectiveness of one power a bit which you can obviously make up with some mods that would let you cast more.

 

Again, the idea that the adjustment of one power when he has 3 other in tremendously humorous.

 

Nova is REAL GOOD at blowing S#&$ up. Take that away from her and she loses her niche. She loses her feel. She looses her essence. Same with the few examples above.

So Vauban can no longer CC because of the limit?

Really? Really? Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally?

 

 

What happens to Frost if he's no longer the pillar of Defense missions? What happens to Nova if she can no longer blow entire rooms up?

 

What happens if you bother to use some of the other powers the Warframe has?

 

 

I don't bother talking about difficulty of the game. I talk about purposes and how every frame should have one. I've cleared almost the entire Star Chart solo, including a lot of defense (which Mind you I end up soloing on my Frost to get the mission cleared) 

 

Already am I seeing people not want Vauban in groups because they'd "rather get a Nyx"... A day after the patch!

 

These are stupid people. Simple as that.

No one can CC like Vauban even in his newer state.

People that think he cant do what he did before are people that simply dont know how to play the game and no one should be listening to them.

 

 

No, this is not and never has been about difficulty of the game. This is about frames and their playstyles. When you rob a frame from his playstyle, it feels nasty for the player, and THIS specific thing Digital Extremes promised they will not do.

 

Can you define playstyle for me because i seem to be the actual person talking about playstyle while you just want ONE power to function like before. That's not playstyle that's crying about ONE power.

 

I was never able to tank on my Vauban, I was never able to do a lot of skill-based damage, I always had to rely on optimized loadouts to get everything out of it and the one thing I had going for me, being the god of CC alongside Nyx, got removed from me. Now I have even more unreliable CC that lets all sorts of things through and can't be used in the area of the game where it needs to be used.

 

If you cant perform Vauban's job without old Bastille you dont know how to play Vauban.

FACT.

Thank goodness for players like you. <3

[Dracosaber]

Honestly, other than Infested defense, 12 people being lifted is more than enough. The point of Bastille was to take off pressure, not be a "Press 3, EZ Mode" ability. Against Infested, Vortex worked wonders, people just never used it because of its trolling ability. Now, Vauban players have to be *gasp* strategic with their abilities.

 

I know, right? How dare they?!

 

But seriously, the warframes can't be balanced around whether or not they can make it to wave 100+, or heck, even 40+, on Endless Defense. That's not balance. That kind of thinking makes no sense. If you're having trouble making it to 40, then that's the new challenge. Enjoy. Oh, you used to be able to make to 60+ waves? Well, now you have to play harder to reach reach that point. That's true challenge. Honestly, I don't understand you people. People ask for more challenge, more challenge given, complain! This change doesn't make Vauban useless, it means you have to actually play as him, using his whole arsenal (well, maybe except Bounce; honestly, what purpose does it serve?). What is the point of being able to reach really high waves in defense? None, zero, zilch, no matter what your level. If you have to reach those heights to have a challenge, then you should be damn happy that now you reach a challenge faster. T3 Defense harder now? More variety necessary? Duh...that's what it's all about. 

 

Using Nova as a benchmark is silly and stupid, everyone knows she is the ultimate nuker right now, and hopefully her ulti gets a tweak to not be so room-clearing. But Vauban is a full on utility frame, and he is still amazing at his job. Oh, and Frost's Snow Globe? Yes, it's OP against Grineer and Corpus in Defense, like Bastille with Infested. Except not to the same degree, and regardless, it's likely to get nerfed as well. The problem right now is that Frost has no other good ability. That will hopefully change in the new damage system, at which point his Snow Globe will probably see the same treatment as Bastille. 

 

If you think Bastille and by extension Vauban are now useless, you've probably been relying on Bastille way too much. 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Hmm, played post-patch Vauban already.

All you need now is a good weapon that kills fast or tackteam with other players. Bastille still works like a charm as long as you wipe those runner/charger fast enough. Not sure all these 14 pages of fuss is about.

This. It means you have to work a bit and be more proactive when it comes to killing trash mobs who enter your fortress.

[ngrazer]

Seriously? I played "new Vauban" yesterday on Xini. 

Bastille. 75 energy. 9 meters. 15 seconds. 12 enemies. Doesn't affect Ospreys and Rollers. You gotta kill enemies inside the Bastille all by yourself.

Chaos. 75 energy. 25 meters. 25 seconds. No enemies limit. Does affect Ospreys or Rollers. Enemies will fight each other, so it's plenty easy to kill them.

[userbeneficiary]

before...  i was a lone wolf on xini to wave 20 and beyond with the Vauban, now i barely go to wave 10,  the pod is allways in danger and taking damage.... 

2/3 bastiles dont work for me...

 

I HATE YOU SO MUCH D.E.

 

Vauban R.I.P.

[Zakalwe]

before...  i was a lone wolf on xini to wave 20 and beyond with the Vauban, now i barely go to wave 10,  the pod is allways in danger and taking damage.... 

2/3 bastiles dont work for me...

 

I HATE YOU SO MUCH D.E.

 

Vauban R.I.P.

Yes, because being able to solo content meant for 4 people was working as intended.

Oh, wait...