Projectile weapons need a flight speed increase across the board.

[ADirtyMonk]

TLDR: projectile weapons are very awkward to use in open world and require a very significant lead past ~30m in front of you. Non-AOE semi Auto projectile weapons like the new kitguns, bows, euphona prime are the worst offenders. AOE projectile weapons like the Arca Plasmor is perhaps the only exception.

I've found that even at moderate range of 40-50m I have to lead enemies by 0.5-1inch (screen is 23.5inch long). Very frustrating and awkward to use in open world while the weapons themselves do not give a significant damage advantage over hitscan weapons. I've been watching a lot of Black Ops 4 Battle Royale on twitch and it seems that at most you have to lead by ~0.5 inches even at what appears to be the equivalent of ~100m in warframe which is a lot more reasonable.

Could this be an issue of "git gud"? Maybe. But the availability of weapons where I can click heads and kill faster and more efficiently makes it not worth it to learn the large drop/lead distance on erratic often spastic AI (a decent amount of which are now also getting long distance non-telegraphed jump/dash abilities).

Edited November 13, 2018 by ADirtyMonk

[Gnohme]

I think you might be onto something here. I usually go with a Harpak as my primary but lately I've been finding myself using it a lot less since Fortuna came out. 

[taiiat]

i'd just as soon see Projectile Weapons have A+ sweet Headshot Bonuses rather than making the Projectiles so fast that they aren't any different from the hundreds of Ray Trace Weapons in the game.

[ADirtyMonk]

13 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i'd just as soon see Projectile Weapons have A+ sweet Headshot Bonuses rather than making the Projectiles so fast that they aren't any different from the hundreds of Ray Trace Weapons in the game.

I guess giving projectile weapons more unique properties (or more damage) is another way to approach it but my issue is that a good amount of projectile weapons have sufficient damage. It is just needlessly difficult to apply that damage vs hitscan weapons in large open worlds PLUS there are much easier to use and just as effective options available. If we were to go the rout of keep the same speed but bump up projectile weapon damage, you would need at least a 3-5x damage advantage over hitscan to convince me to use the projectile weapon (currently the difference in base stats of a projectile weapon vs an approximately equivalent hitscan is 1.5-2x more). That approach would also generate the issue of Hitscan weapons absolutely dominating the corridor type missions which do not exceed short range and vs big targets (kind of like how the Lanka currently dominates eidolon hunts).

Additionally I'm not asking for no lead or no unique properties/bonus damage either. Just to adjust it to the level of a Battlefield or black ops 4 battle royale game where it takes a bit of skill to hit the target but you can still more or less grab a weapon and do decently with it. 

[DatDarkOne]

56 minutes ago, ADirtyMonk said:

Could this be an issue of "git gud"?

Yes it is.  But to be fair, I only want them to not be faster as it makes it incredibly hard to control them using Navigator if their speed is increased anymore.  

Edit:  I really like @taiiat's suggestion.  

Edited November 13, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, ADirtyMonk said:

there are much easier to use and just as effective options available. If we were to go the rout of keep the same speed but bump up projectile weapon damage, you would need at least a 3-5x damage advantage over hitscan to convince me to use the projectile weapon

(kind of like how the Lanka currently dominates eidolon hunts).

Additionally I'm not asking for no lead or no unique properties/bonus damage either. Just to adjust it to the level of a Battlefield or black ops 4 battle royale game where it takes a bit of skill to hit the target but you can still more or less grab a weapon and do decently with it. 

well, with there being so many hundreds of Weapons, that sounds like you've decided that you prefer some other Weapons.
which i don't think is really a problem itself - lots of different kinds of Weapons and Players will pick the ones they like (or the ones that cruise control the game the most, so Shotguns - even people using Shotguns in Eidolon/Vallis which is just bonkers considering how far away Enemies will often be).

 

like.... most popular gameplay in the game, what's considered to dominate by the Community at large is because they heard someone on Youtube/Twitch tell them that, but provide no facts on it. and the actually most efficient options for so many different parts of Gameplay are entirely different than what you'll hear any random Player telling you it is.
but that's another Thread.

 

which Battlefield? the Projectiles i enjoyed the most was back in Bad Company 2 where the Projectiles were comically slow. lent to Players needing to be good at trajectories to get high Accuracy.
in recent Battlefield titles, as long as you're within like 500m it might as well be Ray Trace, you just point at the Target and you hit it. not even a Projectile at that point.
while on a different hand, with Call of Duty having always been exclusively Ray Trace for things that aren't Throwables or specials (like Rockets, Et Cetera). you only have to lead in Black Ops 4 BR because of multiple reasons:

• there is no limit for Latency Compensation in Call of Duty (so if someone is from mars, you're going to have to aim into next week to hit them)
• Black Ops 4 BR just has a grossly low Tick Rate in the first place (so regardless of Latency there's a giant delay)

and both of those reasons means that you have to shoot into next month to hit your Target, even though all of the Guns are Ray Trace. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by taiiat

[LazerusKI]

Use Terminal Velocity or a Riven for that if you cant handle it.

I agree with taiiat here though, a bonus effect like increased damage would be nice to balance the drawback.

But dont turn them all into hitscan weapons just because you cant aim with them...

 

[Hmm...interesting.]

The real problem here is that at the moment, with the way mods are, it feels like too big of a sacrifice to put in Terminal Velocity. DE just needs to balance the mod viability across the board. Then, we would have more viable freedom to have creative builds.

[LazerusKI]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Hmm...interesting.:

The real problem here is that at the moment, with the way mods are, it feels like too big of a sacrifice to put in Terminal Velocity. DE just needs to balance the mod viability across the board. Then, we would have more viable freedom to have creative builds.

I cant see what you mean.

Cant hit without Bulletspeed = 0 Damage

Add Terminal Velocity to hit = Deal Damage

But yes, mods need to be balanced better. TV would be a mod that would work great in a new "utility slot", same with the silencer mods and all the other ignored mods

Edited November 15, 2018 by LazerusKI

[YagoXiten]

On 2018-11-13 at 3:01 PM, ADirtyMonk said:

TLDR: projectile weapons are very awkward to use in open world and require a very significant lead past ~30m in front of you. Non-AOE semi Auto projectile weapons like the new kitguns, bows, euphona prime are the worst offenders. AOE projectile weapons like the Arca Plasmor is perhaps the only exception.

I've found that even at moderate range of 40-50m I have to lead enemies by 0.5-1inch (screen is 23.5inch long). Very frustrating and awkward to use in open world while the weapons themselves do not give a significant damage advantage over hitscan weapons. I've been watching a lot of Black Ops 4 Battle Royale on twitch and it seems that at most you have to lead by ~0.5 inches even at what appears to be the equivalent of ~100m in warframe which is a lot more reasonable.

Could this be an issue of "git gud"? Maybe. But the availability of weapons where I can click heads and kill faster and more efficiently makes it not worth it to learn the large drop/lead distance on erratic often spastic AI (a decent amount of which are now also getting long distance non-telegraphed jump/dash abilities).

I get that it might be frustrating for some people, but I really don't need or want the projectile speed to be increased. I use almost exclusively projectile weapons. I simply find them more satisfying than hitscan, and that's largely because they're far more difficult to use. It sounds like maybe they just aren't for you?

[Guest]

Some projectile weapons, mostly bows, really are disadvantageous for most cases in Warframe. It's like they are there for fun only.

I would like an increase in projectile speed for SOME weapons. Not 200m/s like Lanka, or like some are exaggerating here, but something close to Daikyu's.

It's very satisfying hitting a target with a Bow from very far away, but that's it, it just feels satisfying, nothing else.