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Ember, months later - still unhappy.


Kryogeneva
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SO, before anyone gets too upset: yes, I can still clear sortie 3 void exterminate with ember using her 4, 2, and ignis. If it is enhanced sortie, not so easy. Especially if it isn't void (free 250 energy all over the place) - but that doesn't have anything to do with the nerf (in fact, her 4 is stronger now).

That said... I am weighing in to say: please revert the change, and/or adjust her 1 and 3 to be fun and usable, and/or just revert the range change on 4.

Some points to consider:

Her 2 covers any CC that her 3 might otherwise be valuable for, and for cheaper.

Her 3 deals very little damage on any meaningful content, even with arbitration buff and 300 power strength

Why use her 1 when "gun" with "mod" is better?

Her 4 was nerfed to alleviate situations where other plays could not contribute - everything was dead. But no matter what you do, that will always be the case: Now it is Volt with whip + melee range mods (or 4th ability focused), or Equinox with passive maim procs, Saryn with spore/miasma, Mesa with peacemaker, Banshee with 200+ strength augmented quake, anyone with ignis, etc. etc. etc. -- On top of that, a properly modded Ember still does the same thing even at 100% drain (which I like). I do not know a proper fix, but the range nerf is just irritating. So irritating that a frame that was worth 1000 plat at one point is now worth around 200. She should be considered part of Warframe in the same way that Excal is Warframe, and deserves better than this.

To boil down my post: make her 1 and 3 more relevant, her 2 is amazing, her 4 is ok on damage - revert range nerf  keep drain nerf. 

PS - could make it so her 3 removes any passive resistances to fire damage, including armor/sortie, for a small duration - augment maybe?

Edit: some clarity.

 

Edited by Kryogeneva
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I feel like she just needs more mechanical changes. World on Fire is still barely interactive, fireball's charge up is a gimmick, and fire blast doesn't see a lot of use in mobile gameplay. If her kit had more synergy - like creating small fire blasts around accelerant-debuffed enemies that are killed with fire damage, as a rough example - she could be a lot better, and more fun.

Personally my biggest issue with her kit is that her 4 is still set & forget.

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@AdunSaveMe

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

Personally my biggest issue with her kit is that her 4 is still set & forget.

I think this is something I should have added, and I agree completely.

Clarity: in leu of reverting the change, this more robust decision would be preferable - but more work, I would imagine.

Edited by Kryogeneva
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1 minute ago, Kryogeneva said:

@AdunSaveMe

I think this is something I should have added, and I agree completely.

Clarity: in leu of reverting the change, this more robust decision would be preferable - but more work, I would imagine.

More work for a better result. Reverting the change back to what it was previously still leaves us in the same situation.

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Her passive need to be changed into this my idea or someone else's

 

Musou Flame

 

Ember will gain range in 20% per point everytime she cast an ability except 4th. Stacks up to 10 point.

 

Fireball - 1 point

Accelerant - 3 points

Fire Blast - 5 points

 

When she use 4th ability World on Fire, she vents out the stacks into Power Strength.

 

Power Strength increases for 100% for the whole duration of the stacks accumulated.

 

Each stack or 1 point is used every 1 seconds.

 

The stack can be replenished during the consumption of the venting so that players need to maintain that 100% strength.

 

Suggestion 2# of the passive

 

Every detected enemy within 15 meters, Ember gain strength, range and efficiency by 5%. No limits. Killing enemy that within her range reduce her power, or rather tone down after the fight.

 

Fire Blast rework

 

Casting Fire Blast now create wave of flame that burns armor and shield.

 

Fire blast still produce ring of fire to crowd control.

 

Casting the ability now instantly buff heat damage to the weapons.

 

Details :

 

armor and shield reduction by 20% for 10 seconds. Stats can be changed through mods.

 

Ring of fire's range can be increased with Range mods.

 

Heat damage buff can be additive to Heat-secondary element dmg (Lanka with radiation build will deal stronger dmg).

 

i only wish the Musou Flame passive supposed derived from Dynasty Warriors' Musou ultimate where their attack become stronger the moment they release it.

 

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What's even more interesting is that banshee does what ember used to do better than ember did! Like, I just throw max range and strength on my banshee craft 200 energy consumables and go to hydron and just spam my 4 with my augment on, just kill EVERYTHING, but DE doesn't seem to even notice, granted a lot of people don't do it, but it's still OP and yet no nerf, I understand that they said the main reason they nerfed ember was cause people would just run through low level exterminates and kill everything before any new players could....that makes no sense tho, considering equinox players do it all the time...and if the new players are having trouble with public people being too good, than just go solo! or get a friend and go friends only! You can't reall go to hydron on pub and complain about not being able to kill anything....that's just stupid lol

Nerfing ember was a bad and weird move, the rework wasn't even a rework, just a tweak with a big nerf to her 4, Reworking frames to me doesn't sound like it's THAT time consuming, coming up with the new abilities/reworks should only take 1-2 days, I mean...c'mon! And then implementing it into the game should take at max 4-5 days!! but somehow they manage to spend an entire month reworking a crappy rework....that's just impressive lmao! If they set their mind to it they could rework 4-5 frames in 3 weeks easy. I don't know why they can't do that...oh, and the reworks could be GOOD, it doesn't take any effort to make a good rework, it takes effort to make a ember bad rework tho....

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17 minutes ago, craftfaster2 said:

What's even more interesting is that banshee does what ember used to do better than ember did! Like, I just throw max range and strength on my banshee craft 200 energy consumables and go to hydron and just spam my 4 with my augment on, just kill EVERYTHING, but DE doesn't seem to even notice, granted a lot of people don't do it, but it's still OP and yet no nerf, I understand that they said the main reason they nerfed ember was cause people would just run through low level exterminates and kill everything before any new players could....that makes no sense tho, considering equinox players do it all the time...and if the new players are having trouble with public people being too good, than just go solo! or get a friend and go friends only! You can't reall go to hydron on pub and complain about not being able to kill anything....that's just stupid lol

Nerfing ember was a bad and weird move, the rework wasn't even a rework, just a tweak with a big nerf to her 4, Reworking frames to me doesn't sound like it's THAT time consuming, coming up with the new abilities/reworks should only take 1-2 days, I mean...c'mon! And then implementing it into the game should take at max 4-5 days!! but somehow they manage to spend an entire month reworking a crappy rework....that's just impressive lmao! If they set their mind to it they could rework 4-5 frames in 3 weeks easy. I don't know why they can't do that...oh, and the reworks could be GOOD, it doesn't take any effort to make a good rework, it takes effort to make a ember bad rework tho....

The problem is that they wanted her as glads cannon but her 4th is the only good dps ability.

 

 Seriously nerfing the range means reducing her effectiveness of dps on the outer range limit.

 

If DE want her as true glass cannon.

 

She need changes around her

 

Fireball

Accelerant

Fire Blast

Passive

 

Fireball should be instant cast and create liquid flame area like oberon's 2nd ability weed. Instead of proccing radiation status, it procs heat.

 

Accelerant should be kept as it is but shouldnt disturb Fire Blast's Fire Fright augment crowd control or atleast fix it.

 

Her Fire Blast should be like Polarize-like ability that doesnt go through walls. Reducing enemy defenses including armor and shield.

 

World on Fire should target and affect every enemy within range to fully crowd control and kill enemies at the same time.

 

Passive shouldnt be detrimental as everyone says. It forced players to proc themselves with heat status that can kill them. Its irregular.

 

Ember passive should allow generate energy orb with 35% drop chance upon enemy killed with heat status. This should allow her combine any energy hungry warframes like saryn so atleast ember become backbone dps support.

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Remove 1, 3 and 4 bring back Overheat and add other energy independent self buff abilities for weapons or survivability. Damage abilities are pointless because of immunity and ehp inflation. I want to use my favorite warframe for stuff like Eidolon hunt in Arbitrations and agaisnt the beloved invisible energy drain auras. If I want to rush through low level content I can pick an aoe weapon like ignis, amprex or maim melee build.

Passive: Igniting enemies will recharge your shields for x% of damage dealt. I don´t care if tank Ember doesn´t fit the "theme". Apparently that´s the way warframe is supposed to be played.

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