Redesigning Saryn

[rksk16it]

First of all, Miasma does more damage. Oh but he can Roar and then do more damage... Then you are spending 175 energy to do more damage, if i do a second Miasma Ill beat you up again, wont I? :)

 

If you are doing second miasma you are using 200 energy, but there is one more thing, which I get into in a moment.

 

Venom and Charge again arent comparable. Charge loses damage as level goes higher because of armor, Venom doesnt. Venom scales on and on, and as long as you can pop the bubble, its going to do damage, while charge will be a tickle at a certain point. Venom is for situations where you are defending, while Charge is the opposite, thus why it is a good mobility ability. You are trying to compare an orange to an apple here.

 

Venom used to scale before nerf, now it doesnt.

 

The point which you are not considering, regarding both miasma and venom, vs charge/stomp, is damage from weapon. Since you are talking about high enough level where enemies have good armor, so if you bring some high end weapon then things will change.

 

Miasma :

The time you spend in doing an extra miasma, Rhino can spend that time aiming his shots from lanka on static enemies, dealing a LOT more dmg than miasma can ever do to a single target. Or Rhino can use Torid/Ogris which can deal much more AoE dmg than miasma, albeit in smaller area.

 

Venom :

Same goes for venom. Charge can knock them down. At higher levels enemy health also scales, not just armor. Venom used to counter health scaling by stacking infinitely, but not anymore. So its better to shoot the enemy with your weapon. And knocked down enemies are easy targets.

 

And just because weapons do massive amount of damage than any ability of Saryn, Roar by itself can outclass ALL four abilities of Saryn. A Rhino using just Roar can deliver more dps on high level opponents than a Saryn with all four abilities.

 

 

Again, Saryn is the Queen of Poison and does her job perfectly, that is deliver DPS.

 

Any frame can deliver dps, just bring a 5x forma'd dojo weapon with max serration/hornet.

 

I am just stating the fact that no matter how good Saryn is in delivering dps, she doesnt fit in any optimal setup. In any optimal setup you need one support based on enemy type. That leaves three slots maximum for damage dealer frames. And there are four frames in game which enhance weapon dmg, thus will outclass Saryn :-

1. Nova

2. Rhino

3. Banshee

4. Mag (Bullet Attractor now increases dmg on target, unless they reverted the change)

 

Sure you can bring Saryn if you find her fun to play with, thats a very valid reason, not arguing over it. I was just pointing out for optimal/best setup.

 

 

... thats why I said id ignore you, because you HAD no use of arguments, just plain said I was wrong without caring to explain why.

 

Well, I just presented a statement challenging your "conclusion" that Saryn is a very good dps. I "initiated" an argument. Your statement had no arguments in itself, so there is no point in writing a story for one statement. But now you given arguments, so I presented counter-arguments.

[Hybridon]

-snip-

 

Wow, counter-argument is "weapons can deal more dps" or "a highly forma'd *insert weapon/frame here* can deal more dps.

 

I only compared back the powers, if you are adding other elements to the maths being done, then we arent comparing powers anymore.

 

And when I said do a second Miasma, I was just pushing up to a similar energy count, as 175 is way more than 100, but similar to 200, unless you arent familiar with basic maths and comparison.

 

Its the same as coming here and and saying wow my bike is really good, I can ide it fast and then you counter-argument saying that you can travel faster in a car.

 

Theres no true comparison when you use a bike and a car.

 

So stick to actually using true arguments, not S#&$ty ones.

 

And to end this up, I said she is good at doing what she is meant to, and said she is the Queen of Poison, Id truly like to know where I went wrong here?

 

And again, she is a very good DPS frame, when comparing her powers to any other power, other than Novas Molecular Prime. But then you jump in and say yeah Rhino with Roar + Stomp + Lanka + god knows whatever else deals more DPS.

 

Just Ridiculous.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Hybridon

[rksk16it]

Wow, counter-argument is "weapons can deal more dps" or "a highly forma'd *insert weapon/frame here* can deal more dps.

 

I only compared back the powers, if you are adding other elements to the maths being done, then we arent comparing powers anymore.

 

And when I said do a second Miasma, I was just pushing up to a similar energy count, as 175 is way more than 100, but similar to 200, unless you arent familiar with basic maths and comparison.

 

Its the same as coming here and and saying wow my bike is really good, I can ide it fast and then you counter-argument saying that you can travel faster in a car.

 

Theres no true comparison when you use a bike and a car.

 

So stick to actually using true arguments, not S#&$ty ones.

 

And to end this up, I said she is good at doing what she is meant to, and said she is the Queen of Poison, Id truly like to know where I went wrong here?

 

And again, she is a very good DPS frame, when comparing her powers to any other power, other than Novas Molecular Prime. But then you jump in and say yeah Rhino with Roar + Stomp + Lanka + god knows whatever else deals more DPS.

 

Just Ridiculous.

 

So being practical on how the end game functions is being ridiculous ?

 

Like I said, my primary audience in this thread is OP who is a new player based on what he said in first post. So, I am trying to point it out that even if Saryn does more dps by use of power, she may end up being doing less overall.

 

You went nowhere wrong, except looking like butthurt over the fact that your favourite frame is not the best in her "role".

 

If you are given both a fast bike and car, and if car can go faster than your "fast" bike, then no reason to pick a bike if you want to reach your destination fastest. This is how things are, weapons rule the dmg dealing portion of the game, you may not like the fact or may not accept them as your counter argument. But I am still pointing out that fact to OP, and any new player who is aiming to reach end game content.

[Hybridon]

So being practical on how the end game functions is being ridiculous ?

 

Like I said, my primary audience in this thread is OP who is a new player based on what he said in first post. So, I am trying to point it out that even if Saryn does more dps by use of power, she may end up being doing less overall.

 

You went nowhere wrong, except looking like butthurt over the fact that your favourite frame is not the best in her "role".

 

If you are given both a fast bike and car, and if car can go faster than your "fast" bike, then no reason to pick a bike if you want to reach your destination fastest. This is how things are, weapons rule the dmg dealing portion of the game, you may not like the fact or may not accept them as your counter argument. But I am still pointing out that fact to OP, and any new player who is aiming to reach end game content.

 

OMG, again you compare an orange to an apple and pose as if you are smart.

 

Saryn once was my fave frame, aint atm, I main an Ash and bring him along even on T3 defenses your all mighty end game.

 

OP HAS a Saryn, he adds in on how to change her, I pointed out that she needs little to no change, then you come up and compare her to a Rhino with a Lanka.

 

Perfect comparison... *clap clap clap*

 

Learn first how to read, then you can start argumenting, kiddo ;)

[goozilla]

The only skill that needs reworking is Contagion.

Have you even used Venom extensively? I end up swarming maps with numbers and stuns using the pen Flux rifle/Venom combo. Every time a bulge pops, it stuns. Let that soak in.

You're looking at an indefinite stun as long as you have more than one target.

[rksk16it]

The only skill that needs reworking is Contagion.

Have you even used Venom extensively? I end up swarming maps with numbers and stuns using the pen Flux rifle/Venom combo. Every time a bulge pops, it stuns. Let that soak in.

You're looking at an indefinite stun as long as you have more than one target.

 

You cannot "swarm" a map with numbers anymore with Venom.

 

Also, I am not aware of Venom stunning on popping a spore, unless its a stealth buff last patch.

[RoboDoge]

She seriously needs to have that scarf that hides her &#! removed. Her &#! looks so big with it.

[taiiat]

well, once again people have succeeded in derailing a players' thread into a bottomless chasm of name calling.

anyways, i will apologize for their behavior for them.


on topic:
- that's basically the sum of my opinion for Venom. it's useful, but the fact that like most every power, you need to 'stop' to use it, and all of this time used to set it up, etc. but effective is drastically reduced in how much it is, due to how cumbersome it is to use. especially later in the game where it really shines, and where the enemies are a larger damage threat, meaning standing in the open waving your hand is less and less of a good idea.
- Contagion is great, honestly. the only issue, is quick attack melee's really don't get the same benefit as Heavy melee's do. for example, Gram will get a bonus of about 450dmg (with just the 60% bonus), while something like Ether Daggers, will get about 39dmg. or Fangs, about 19dmg.
while yes, quick weapons attack faster, the number they get is just... less effective. with the ~600dmg Gram deals per swing (only the main hit, not counting the first bonus hit), if the enemy isn't dead from that one swing, ~400 extra damage will probably fix that. but quick weapons that are getting ~15-40 dmg, that saves you two or three swings for the entire time of killing an enemy. it just doesn't seem to match up.
- Miasma is powerful, but i still wish it was actually a Miasma. a Miasma by definition is not some instant disintegration nuke. it's a cloud of creeping death. that being said, Miasma is okay as is. i feel it's a bit bland but it's okay.

all in all, Saryn has a blistering array of Offensive, Defensive, and Utility. this power set makes Saryn a really powerful, and universal frame.


as always, Saryn, a labor of love.


edit:

She seriously needs to have that scarf that hides her &#! removed. Her &#! looks so big with it.

but, Saryn has &#! armor. it protects her from unexpected situations.
pun very intended.

 

 

edit2:

whoops, my numbers on Contagion had mixed buffs in them. i used with mods on heavies and without for lights. fix'd.

Edited September 13, 2013 by taiiat

[AscendantWyvern]

I wouldn't mind a small buff to Molt (with the AI "give up" addition way back when, I feel molt can return to being unlimited timer). Contagion...I personally feel it just doesn't work with Saryn as it currently stands. If it synergized with the other abilities, I wouldn't complain, but currently it's a waste of space on the abilities of Saryn.

 

I think contagion needs to be either reworked...or replaced entirely.

[GreatFreedom]

The only skill that needs reworking is Contagion.

Have you even used Venom extensively? I end up swarming maps with numbers and stuns using the pen Flux rifle/Venom combo. Every time a bulge pops, it stuns. Let that soak in.

You're looking at an indefinite stun as long as you have more than one target.

i did notice pre 9.7 it slowed them down and could cover the entire map after about the 7th spoe pop... now.. barely even worth using like contagion and molt.. and molt is good for low level mobs but once you hit level 30mobs with decent to good weapons molt is pretty much useless... miasma is now the only skill left saryn has.. and people want to nerf that >.>

 

You cannot "swarm" a map with numbers anymore with Venom.

 

Also, I am not aware of Venom stunning on popping a spore, unless its a stealth buff last patch.

thats cause of people with crappy computers saying it crashs them over overheats their gpu and cpu cant handle.. which again refers to what i just said.. ive played faaar more flashier games then warframe pre 9.7 venom wasnt flashy in one bit and i LOVE flashy skill like games.. which why i still play mechwarrior online for its extreme flashy explosions and lasers and such..  if you think it flashy.. turn off physx and every thing else and put all settings to low.. there and if that dont solve your problem or any of your friends problem... your computer cant handle the game..

[Dociel]

Regardless of the little argument some had, I just consider the number of replies within what... 12 hours after posting, and close to everyone has something to say about how a skill isn't fit for the skill set, or the end game, or some different situations.

Juste a few quotes to illustrate:

miasma is now the only skill left saryn has...

I wouldn't mind a small buff to Molt (with the AI "give up" addition way back when, I feel molt can return to being unlimited timer). Contagion...I personally feel it just doesn't work with Saryn as it currently stands. If it synergized with the other abilities, I wouldn't complain, but currently it's a waste of space on the abilities of Saryn.

I think contagion needs to be either reworked...or replaced entirely.

The only skill that needs reworking is Contagion.

Molt dies way to fast to be much of a diversion at higher levels. I would prefer it being Timed and having a shorter duration than originally. Short of that it needs some big time defense buffs to last longer than 1-2 seconds which is enough for every enemy to shoot once and have it die.

Still, I am not satisfy about one thing, which I wanted you guys to consider from the begginning: debating rather one skill is broken, or unfit, or whatever, is not the point here.

Really, and I insist, try considering the new skillset I proposed as a whole. Try figuring out how it could improve, change, or decline the way we could enjoy playing Saryn.

I mean, I did not intend to give new ideas about how we could change Saryn's skills one by one, giving an alternative to everyone of them. I managed to come up with a skillset, meaning 4 skills working together.

Please, give it a thought.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Dociel

[MrCranky_BR]

That's what I've read too. And you may be right about the rewarding side of mastering the skill. But as you said, I am really new, and I wasn't there to see the glory part of it. Only now, I am enjoying its withering. :/

 

I feel for you. it was fun. I dropped Saryn immediately after the patch because I had so much fun with venom. I Hope DE comes around and you get to see that...and I can pick her up again. You can still find some videos of the carnage around youtube, I guess...

 

I like your idea of a skillset, but some of your stuff was a rework of her current abilities...I guess that's why people picked them apart one by one.

 

I think if we were going to aim for a new skillset, it should be an entirely new, completely different skillset... better yet, interchangeable with the current one. As in 2 options for each power slot.

[zzang]

Saryns contagion is extremely useless i replaced that skill with constitution

 

1 or 2 formas more and i will replace venom with steel fibre i find venom pretty useless

 

and looking at her ulti she can not compete with rhino or nova

 

so i think she fails as dps role but she also kinda fails as support or defense character i find her below average but still like the style although i prefer rhino for serious solo missions

[Mainabi]

i wish the prepatched contagion back = godmode like rhinos old iron skin xP

[zzang]

i wish the prepatched contagion back = godmode like rhinos old iron skin xP

mhh what did it do?

[Estred]

Some good ideas here, I had a few thoughts myself. Any line marked with a *** is a new idea that I have had.

 

Venom: I am sorry but reverting is not an option. They have to keep it from Spreading Back to prevent a Memory Leak.Some ways to fix from multiple threads.

- A frontal Cone Spray

- A flat damage increase per tick

- Having spores combine into stronger spores up to a maximum limit (which caps off the memory leak)

- Having the detonation of the spore deal more damage

*** Having the enemy release a toxic cloud upon death similar to Torid.

 

Molt: Many express this skill is lackluster at high levels due to it's low HP. It's a diversion skill that isn't really serving it's purpose. Making it Timer Based was too strong originally, some suggestions here include:

- Making it a 2 stage ability with the 1st stage being similar to Iron Skin. The 2nd stage drops the decoy.

- Making it Timer based again but with lower time limit.

- Making it have much more HP/Resistance

*** Making it more like an Iron Skin except with it deflects bullets (meaning random-like ricochets)

 

Contagion: Melee is risky and this skill very much favors Heavy Weapons. Without copying Roar some suggestions include:

- Make it effect Bullets and Melee but for Sayrn only.

- Make it instead of a Melee Skill have it release a damaging cloud (may or may not follow Saryn, similar to WoF but smaller)

*** Make it deal flat extra poison damage per strike/bullet (this favors fast-weapons and shotguns)

 

Miasma: Most are fine with this skill some would rather it have longer range. Not much to say about it, it's a good strong nuke that's viable up to relatively high levels.

 

I wanted to consolodate some suggestions across a few threads. I may have missed some.

[HAYABU5A]

TL;DR

jk..

 

and yeah venom was awesome before it was nerfed, wasmost fun skill in the game too

decoys cant be too good as they are abused in high level play

all melee (except zorens, kestrel etc) in game is ineffective/useless for high level play (dmg is too low and u die without cc/invul) so contagion is pointless

miasma suffers a short range and needs multiple casts on heavy units in high level play to kill effectively 

[ShockTart]

Hello guys, here is a topic about redesigning Saryn.

First of all, I would like you guys to know that I am new to the game. I bought Saryn to replace a lvl 9 Loki on the go, because of how her playstyle appears to be: enjoyable and deadly. Which is, unfortunately, not that enjoyable.

But the good thing in being new to the game is also that I will hopefully bring some fresh air into it. I got her while having a certain idea of how I would play her, and still now don't see me playing her a different way. This got me to think about redesigning her skill kit to make her more consistent to the role I give her.

I hope veterans will give me their feedbacks and help on this, as they know much better the game than I do. And maybe one day, we could bring a brand new Saryn to the game, who knows ?

So, let's get started.

Saryn classic

To start with, a little feedback of my experience playing Saryn:

Base stats:

Seems good to me.

- She's tanky and not THAT slow. Which is good, because as a new player, I have this tendency to just throw myself into the melee, unconscious of the threat. It has resulted in some deaths of course in the beggining, some nice escapes, and most of the time, I just get them all. Nothing more to say at this point. But in later stages and levels of the game, being tanky also give you the role of taking care of the aggro, or at least part of it. Keep that in mind, as it will be important in the following.

Skills:

Allright, here we are: the spiky topic for every Saryn player (as I've read on the forums so far).

- Venom: I just don't use it. I don't see the point in launching it on a target (in the middle of a crowd), and then trying to hit the orb (as big as it can be), crossing my fingers it will explode, spreading the plague to other enemies (and if possible, killing them at the same time). The thing is, most of the time, you just don't have the time to do so (casting, aiming, waiting for the venom to deal its DoT). So what I do is I take my gun, unload it as much as possible before the crowd close down on me, and then go on melee kills. I save my energy for other skills, really.

- Molt: it is basically the escape use of a classic decoy. You cast, you run. Period. As I've experienced so far, and it seems to be the case on higher levels as well, it does not last long on the battlefield. Which means it is restricted to doing just that: an escape decoy.

- Contagion: this skill just brought pure joy to me when I read the description. I was dreaming about a deadly Saryn slashing through legions of ennemies while poisoning them; then turning around and looking at them melting in their own blood. Truth are, it is not as deadly as it could be. It is not about the DPS it does, it is about Saryn capability to deal with melee in the middle of a crowd (it may be because I haven't the good weapon, or my personal skills, or something like this, but as I read, the higher the level, the more difficult melee become anyway). I will come back on this point too. So contagion is cool and good, but only good.

- Miasma: my favorite. Maybe the only useful Saryn skill in her skill set. You dive in, you cast. End of the fight. At least for low/mid levels. Always good to take anyway. But still, playing a warframe using close to only one skill (which is close to what I came to now) is a saddening game experience.

So, after playing with Saryn on multiple missions, encountering different ennemies, getting my way through a lot of different situations, I came to think about (or rethink), not my way of seeing her being played, but the way her skill kit could be changed to make it up to it.

A New Saryn

The way I see it, Saryn having strong shield/armor/health base stats, her focus should be on a melee gameplay. She also has a skill kit created to deal damage. No real CC, no real debuff. This makes me come to think of her as an offensive melee bruiser. She can take the heat, but not for too long as it's not her primary role. Her main damage stream is based on melee attacks, so they should be easily performed. I would have said "regardless of the weapon", but I come to think of her as a swift melee too. Which means having the ability to deal a lot of small attacks on one or different targets rather than one big swing or charged attacks (which is Rhino's attribute I think).

Having these things in mind, I tried to come up with a slighlty different skill kit for Saryn, which I hope will lead to some improvement in her actually quite "uncongruent and broken" gameplay.

- Venom: still unsure about what we could do with it after all I've read. But I would of course keep the poisonous DoT. What I thought about, rather than a one-target cast and fire-in-the-ball triggering effect, was casting a few meters cone shaped cloud (or blow) in front of the caster, in which every enemies would get poisoned. Keeping it simple and stupid maybe, but reliable.

optionnal: adding a slow/blind effect to it for a little CC rather than pure damage.

- Molt: we stick to the snake skin idea, but go deeper with it. Molt becomes a "twice triggered" cast, which means the first tapped key will trigger the first effect, and second tap on the key will trigger the second.

The first effect would be a buff called "snake skin/snake form/whatever the name", and would give Saryn a lower chance to get knocked down / blocked in her melee frenzy while giving her a smaller collision factor (if I can call it that way), which means she could more easily slash and snake through a crowd of ennemies, even with melee weapons that do not keep ennemies from approaching too close.

The second effect would be released at the end of the buff (like 5 second after the first cast for example), or upon pressing the skill key a second time for a faster use, and would be our known "molt" skill.

I think this two sided skill would be just awesome in term of game dynamics, sticking greatly to Saryn's warframe spirit while really enhancing her melee and team role.

- Contagion: we keep it the way it is. We will only enhanced it's overall damage output by changing molt and (incoming) miasma.

- Miasma: I know that nobody will want to nerf its damage output as it is currently the only great damage dealer skill Saryn has. But stop crying and start projecting yourself in the new Saryn I present you now. Thing would work different, because not only miasma but the other skills will be different. Keep that in mind. :)

So, we keep the AoE effect. But rather than making a big "poison-nova-boom-in-your-face" skill, I would like to bring some new CC into it.

In fact, for the roleplay part of it, this nova is roughly attacking directly the flesh of every nearby units. Right ? So, I imagine it more like a kind of acidic chemical nova. Which means: it attacks directly everything it touches, a bit like alien blood.

So what the new miasma would do ? I will tell you: a direct attack to armor and flesh. Translated in gameplay: a (permanent ?) debuff of armor for every nearby units as well as a direct damage dealt to their health. Which means it would do great VS flesh enemies, and okay VS synthetics, while having some potential for other situations (VS any heavy armored).

That's it for the new skills, let's see now how they work together.

The way I see it turning into gameplay

To start with, Venom will allow you to quickly take care of small enemy crowds, or add some DPS to bigger targets, while not f***ing up your whole game flow.

But, unlucky you, you got surrounded by enemies. So you cast Snakeskin (or Molt part 1) and Contagion, and start slicing down and poisoning to death everything you touch, while not getting stupidly stunted or stopped by the first Kirby arround. Still, for some reason, it is not enough, the enemy's pressure is too heavy. So you cast Molt (Molt part 2), and get away while the remaining monsters jump on your escape decoy, trying to unload everything you can along the way.

Another time now, you got a stronger crowd you've got to take care of with your teammates. So you approach the crowd, cast Venom to reach as many enemies as you can, then cast Snakeskin and Contagion, dive in, cast Miasma in the middle of it to lower armor and health as much as you can, and slaughter all you desire. Then, you Molt and get away before taking too much damages.

Conclusion

This is what I call an offensive melee bruiser. And this is how I hope Saryn will shine in the near future. So now, I wait for your feedbacks Saryn's lovers !

Cheers.

 

 

ok well for being new i guess you dont fully know how to work saryn, she is a very powerful frame honestly and is a beast when it comes to defense.

 

Venom: the only trick you should know on venom is that its meant more for defense missons, when you get into the heavier waves throw venom onto a heavier enemy, I.E. an aincent infested or grineer heavy gunner. equip and auto pistol or a machine gun, dont try to be a dead shot and hit the toxic bulbs just spam the enemy with bullets and eventually one will pop. it will spread to other enemys and you can thusly pop those bulbs as well. and in a matter of seconds the entire room is filled with enemys being poisend and you can see the dmg ticks absolutly everywhere, its a very overpowered skill when used correctly.

 

Molt: ok well molt was used as a decoy, and it had a nice aggro rate, yet again another great use for defense maps. this skill though, like loki's needs an amp. they recenly upped the aggro rate of the cryo pod so the majority of enemys pass right by molt now without a second thought whereas they used to crowd around it like a fat kid in a candy store. i honestly think this skill needs buffed or reworked. if reworked i think the basic model of molt should stay but emit a poisen gas cloud that would poisen enemys who pass near or through said gas cloud. because so far now its basically a waste of energy.

 

Contagin:  poisens a weapon right? everyone says this skill is useless, it cant be further from the truth, dont use this skill when you equip a sword or axe, dude. get a kestrel or glave, use contagin, now contagin becomes a distance weapon and works beautifully, using contagin and a kestrel i can kill grineer heavy gunners and aincent infested in one shot.

 

Miasma: works just as you said. dive in, use, end fight. for bigger guys it puts a serious dent in their health as well as does tick dmg. this skill could not be more overpowered.

 

its just a simple fact of knowing how to make a good build with a frame. being new to the game you will realize there are certian ways to build certian frames, also some work better with different loadouts than others. keeping a specific default loadout is ok but not to the best use of most frames.

[zzang]

Contagin:  poisens a weapon right? everyone says this skill is useless, it cant be further from the truth, dont use this skill when you equip a sword or axe, dude. get a kestrel or glave, use contagin, now contagin becomes a distance weapon and works beautifully, using contagin and a kestrel i can kill grineer heavy gunners and aincent infested in one shot.

 

Miasma: works just as you said. dive in, use, end fight. for bigger guys it puts a serious dent in their health as well as does tick dmg. this skill could not be more overpowered.

 

lol @ contagion i want to see you onehit a heavygunner lvl 60+ with glaive or kestrel

 

Miasma could not be more overpowered? not sure if serious but rhino stomp outperform it by far.

 

saryn is really a frame that have no real role at the moment for damage there is a better frame for defense there is a better frame and for support there is a better frame and for tank there is a better frame some reworks on contagion like knockdown/stun immune along with update 10 and melee weapon rework could make saryn interesting again

[rksk16it]

lol @ contagion i want to see you onehit a heavygunner lvl 60+ with glaive or kestrel

 

Miasma could not be more overpowered? not sure if serious but rhino stomp outperform it by far.

 

saryn is really a frame that have no real role at the moment,  for damage there is a better frame, for defense there is a better frame, for support there is a better frame and for tank there is a better frame some reworks on contagion like knockdown/stun immune along with update 10 and melee weapon rework could make saryn interesting again

 

QFT

Edited September 12, 2013 by rksk16it

[ShockTart]

ok to be honest i should have specified about the kestrel. no i would not be able to kill a heavy gunner that is 60+ thats a bit much. that one was my bad.

 

as far as the miasma thing. this is a topic about saryn and saryns abilities. not a topic between who is the better frame between her and rhino. in that aspect, for her, miasma could not be more overpowered. if it was a topic of whos the better frame between the two, my loyalties lie with rhino.

[zzang]

ok to be honest i should have specified about the kestrel. no i would not be able to kill a heavy gunner that is 60+ thats a bit much. that one was my bad.

 

as far as the miasma thing. this is a topic about saryn and saryns abilities. not a topic between who is the better frame between her and rhino. in that aspect, for her, miasma could not be more overpowered. if it was a topic of whos the better frame between the two, my loyalties lie with rhino.

comparing frames with each other can tell what skill is weak and what skill is not

your statement is miasma is overpowered - which is not its rather underpowered

but dont allow comparision between other skills which outperform miasma that logic makes no sense.

 

by the way miasma really could use a bigger range.

 

and tell me a role where saryn is really useful and outperform a other frame in its role? i doubt you can.

[Bouldershoulder]

I don't see any one actually using Venom for its damage potential. Venom is not just a massive DoT, it's a pack of bombs which makes any gun you have to be an armor ignoring massive damage dealer, even the Grakata with its 9 dmg. And it works greatly in conjunction with moult when fighting infested. Just use it atop of some box, or jump+shift-forward+cast-it on a declining ground to place it out of reach of the light infested. When heavies arrive, cast Venom on one of them, shoot it, now everything around is poisoned and each poped spore will deal "25 Poison Damage to all enemies within range.". You take either sobek with Hell's Chamber, Seeking Force (Shred for rifles is insane), Tactical Pump, Accelerated Blast, Shotgun Spazz and some damage mods, or grakata/gorgon with similar mods (death cube with a similar load-out is also of a great help), lure mobs with moult into a tight spot and shover them with rounds. Even if there is a limit to spores stacking now, they will still spread to surrounding targets to fill the places where other spores were poped.

 

So venom now is not an infinitely accumulating avalanche, but rather a weapon's buff.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Bouldershoulder

[Helljack84]

Yeah, you can use Venom like that. But it'll only help you if your gun sucks.

It's much better to just clear out small fry with 4 and kill the stunned survivors with your gun.

If enemies are so tough that I can't kill them efficiently with guns anymore Venom makes them look funny but that's it.

Yes, old Venom was inbalanced. But I only ever brought it to endless defense because it was pointless in any other gamemode and now...it's just pointless.

[rksk16it]

...

So venom now is not an infinitely accumulating avalanche, but rather a weapon's buff.

 

Agreed, but that buff is small and independent of weapon dmg. So as your weapon gets better and better, that "buff" stays where it is, eventually a point comes where your weapon will be dealing multiple thousands of dmg per shot, and venom still stuck with its little dmg. At that point, firing an extra shot during the time it takes to cast venom might prove more useful.