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Vauban Rework suggestions.


FIDOISHERE
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So I'm going contribute to the cause for vabaun. I know people are most likely getting sick of seeing these threads.. but I'm going to join in on the push for a Booben rework :).

 

to the topic at hand!

 

Vaubans passive is fine as is! It's great he needs the damage boost to make up for all the CC his kit brings! 

1. Tesla's. this needs to move to minelayer and replace concuss. And minelayer needs to be moved to his 1 with added Adjusted energy costs! the abilities are too costly and take a while to throw out and are VERY situational.

-Bounce, keep bounce. BUT. Please give it an upgrade. The new bounce grenades the moas have on fortuna is perfect. Just add like electric/magnetic damage to it and enemies take a % of damage from rebounding off objects or when they hit the ground. While players get a bullet jump or air time buff.

-trip wire, very situational.. but add slash procs too it so it's more than just a trip. Your running into a laser rope.. have it do some thing even a timed minor armor reduction would be nice.

Shred- add blast damage, properly adjust the % on the armor tear and it'll be perfect. make the armor debuff permanent!

Tesla's remove the charge time have the power and status chance go off of power strength completely. make it duration based for how long it stays not just by the amount of charges it gets.

2. Add an Osprey sentinel to his kit! Let it use the sentinel mods and weapons, possibly some of the moa mods. Also allow it every 15 seconds to use your currently selected grenade type from minlayer, Give it 3 modes, turret, defensive, energy conduit. 

Turret mode will have it sit in place and gun down enemies.

Defensive will follow you at all times, I didn't wanna make too much like Venari but. Supposedly if it's okay you can target players and have your osprey follow them and they get the benefits of its mods currently equipped.

 Energy conduit, your Osprey sits in place making X metered field to quicken your energy regeneration and allies.

 

3. Bastille. Keep as is! It's great. Personally Id like to see some thing like captured enemies are used as meat shields like if they're line of sight between you and another enemy the enemy shooting toward you instead shoots the enemy caught in Bastille. But it's not necessary.

 

4. Vortex! It's on a good place. I'd like to see it synergize with minelayer, like take the damage types and multiply the damage on a explosion and give the vortex the damage type. Though it's not necessary either.

 

i feel like this keeps vauban in a simple place. With his 1-2 being changed around mainly and getting buffs. He still gets all that CC his kit brings but now there's damage and more support options making him entertaining and possibly scale if the minlayer becomes % based.

 

 

Edited by FIDOISHERE
Spelling mistakes, Added some info to minelayer based on discussions :)
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20 minutes ago, FIDOISHERE said:

2. Add an Osprey sentinel to his kit! Let it use the sentinel mods and weapons, possibly some of the moa mods. Also allow it every 15 seconds to use your currently selected grenade type from minlayer, Give it 3 modes, turret, defensive, energy conduit. 

Turret mode will have it sit in place and gun down enemies.

Defensive will follow you at all times, I didn't wanna make too much like venari but. Supposedly if it's okay you can target players and have your osprey follow them and they get the benefits of its mods currently equipped.

 Energy conduit, your Osprey sits in place making X metered field to quicken your energy regeneration and allies.

This would be cool af, nice idea!

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13 minutes ago, Billy50505 said:

A deployable Senta turret would be useful too, deployable barricades similar to Atlas' wall, deployable health and ammo dispensers like the Mantis special

I like this idea. I feel the osprey idea though covers the turret. Overall though if they don't take the idea I'd get behind a unfolddable auto turret idea any day.

The barricades would be cool to block off places or some thing to hide behind I'm not sure where they'd put it since Bastille covers it.

The Heath and ammo idea is neat for utility. But his kit is CC and he needs the damage and other frames cover these. It's not a bad idea though. 

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I think you just defined my personality in one word.

Well I mean honestly if I knew some thing else needed it and this other had plenty to begin with (I don't come to the forums very often) yeah I'd be done too if I saw 10-20 topics a days lol. So I can understand.

 

Though to keep on topic. What are your thoughts on some of the suggestions I made yay or nay on some of them?

 

 

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3 hours ago, FIDOISHERE said:

Though to keep on topic. What are your thoughts on some of the suggestions I made yay or nay on some of them?

 

 

I like the sentinel idea and id go so far as to toss out his Minelayer too and give him a turret you can mod along with the sentinel. The idea of a stationary turret on his one and a sentinel that can be cycled like Khoras Venari really appeals to me for some reason <shrugs> though I think its because ive been tossing his 3 around for years now along with the random tripwire on infested missions and bounce on interception lol. 

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3 minutes ago, zen625 said:

I like the sentinel idea and id go so far as to toss out his Minelayer too and give him a turret you can mod along with the sentinel. The idea of a stationary turret on his one and a sentinel that can be cycled like Khoras Venari really appeals to me for some reason <shrugs> though I think its because ive been tossing his 3 around for years now along with the random tripwire on infested missions and bounce on interception lol. 

 

i'm kinda in the same boat on tossing out his minelayer but since he's spose to be a Crowd control frame i tried to keep his kit in general just with only 2 changes being the osprey and minelayer moving to 1 and concuss gets replaced with tesla.

with the reason being lets add damage to his current shred. trip wire and bounce abilites making them still function the same but well they give out some "okay" damage and debuffs and maybe even a team buff. and in doing so the osprey getting the functionality of sending out your selected mine layer grenade every 15 seconds might be too much but i like the idea of it because its target throw trip, zap, shred, boing, it might be annoying so i dont know if 15 seconds is a good timer to have on it.. could be a chance thing every 20 seconds..

but yeah if they made those CC abilities Percentage based they could scale and actually be more useful i still throw bounce pads out next to console spawn rooms and wires down hallways or high traffic areas. if shred would work properly and not need like 300% power strength id be using that a lot as well.

with an added suggestion of your grenade exploding for its types damage during vortex at an increased % it'd make using them even better for synergy damage.

so his kit gets an overall upgrade on his mines and he gets an osprey that acts like sentinel... is it everything everyone wants? No. but staying true to his play style this is what i see... though... definitely like the turret idea a lot honestly i wouldnt mind it if that was a minelayer unfold-able turret. or OH! what are those lil drone things that spawn from the yellow corpus??? get one of those that last like 30 seconds spawning one every 5 seconds with their own timer would be cool watch them run around taser things haha.

 

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Yeah I see what your getting at there. Just the one problem of his Bastille making his Minelayer (in current form) literally redundant. If Tesla was straight duration based not charge AND duration based and shred PERMANENTLY removed a set amount of armor and could go off multiple times I would see the point of keeping it, but as it is now its just not worth using. Tripwire could even replace shred if it removed armor from any enemy that trips going through it. Anyways it costs too much energy/time to throw a grenade that MIGHT do what its intended to do (if some infested doesn't facecheck the grenade mid air) and even it it does it usually only effects a few enemys outside of groups clustered thanks to Vortex. This of course is referring to higher level content where you have to remain mobile and you usually dont get the nice Vortex combos off since your low defenses mean your constantly "runnin and gunnin". Might be good to replace tripwire or concuss with a grenade that makes you invisible (saw that suggestion in a different forum) since an improved version of either makes the other obsolete (I cant see someone using concuss anymore vs anything but ancient healers if tripwire permanently shredded armor). Just a thought. 

Edited by zen625
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2 minutes ago, zen625 said:

Yeah I see what your getting at there. Just the one problem of his Bastille making his Minelayer (in current form) literally redundant. If Tesla was straight duration based not charge AND duration based and shred PERMANENTLY removed a set amount of armor and could go off multiple times I would see the point of keeping it, but as it is now its just not worth using. Tripwire could even replace shred if it removed armor from any enemy that trips going through it. Anyways it costs too much energy/time to throw a grenade that MIGHT do what its intended to do (if some infested doesn't facecheck the grenade mid air) and even it it does it usually only effects a few enemys outside of groups clustered thanks to Vortex. This of course is referring to higher level content where you have to remain mobile and you usually dont get the nice Vortex combos off since your low defenses mean your constantly "runnin and gunnin". Might be good to replace tripwire or concuss with a grenade that makes you invisible (saw that suggestion in a different forum) since an improved version of either makes the other obsolete. Just a thought. 

Right. that's where i feel like the minelayer falls off too the damage added too them would be nice but yeah once you hit a faster paced mission they wont be of much use. but that's apart of his playstyle as well. is area lockdown. you can still use his bastille and vortex in those missions just to cheese them but as for the minelayer? well yeah they take to long to throw out. cost is high. and unless they function as you said. yeah not worth. the osprey would make a nice addition making him more mobile friendly. and tossing out his selected grenade type passively would be nice so your not doing it your just focusing on being mobile.

as for shred. should take armor away Permanently. and trip wire would be nice to have a slash proc always or minor armor tear. and yeah tesla needs to change too. and as for the cost since it being his 1 id hope it would be adjusted accordingly.

as for the invisible grenade. that seems like a nice idea. but i dont know how that would work for him. CC hide. more CC hide. no touchy.

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20 minutes ago, FIDOISHERE said:

as for the invisible grenade. that seems like a nice idea. but i dont know how that would work for him. CC hide. more CC hide. no touchy.

XD this is how I play my Ivara! But getting back on topic yeah higher level or difficulty missions Bastille isnt enough to cheese them (talking long duration Mot and such) or atleast not for long. Part of the reason is unlike Volts shield or Frosts globe Bastille does nothing against incoming fire. So sooner or later a enemy out of Bastille's range is going to land some hits and thats it. This is how all my attempts at long duration Mot have ended on Vauban actually. Which leads to the turret, a source of damage that can be used to help shore up Vauban's major flaw of poor defense while he remains in a more advantageous position (hopefully out of the line of gunfire).

Edited by zen625
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15 minutes ago, zen625 said:

XD this is how I play my Ivara! But getting back on topic yeah higher level or difficulty missions Bastille isnt enough to cheese them (talking long duration Mot and such) or atleast not for long. Part of the reason is unlike Volts shield or Frosts globe Bastille does nothing against incoming fire. So sooner or later a enemy out of Bastille's range is going to land some hits and thats it. This is how all my attempts at long duration Mot have ended on Vauban actually. Which leads to the turret, a source of damage that can be used to help shore up Vauban's major flaw of poor defense while he remains in a more advantageous position (hopefully out of the line of gunfire).

oh i was just talking about quick runs not survival high level wise yeah no he needs more than just that to live.. yeah that would help him a lot but it still dosent help him not get 1hko'd  later in that game.. also they need to give an armor of 200 because yeah i even resorted too like health conversion broke scepter stuff for some more tankiness on him because he has 0 cover for that all crowd control and traps.

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Yeah he needs a base armor buff or something. His base stats are just to low. When I look at my 7k Inaros who gains 20 percent of his overall health back when he preforms a finisher (very easy to do with a pet that knocks down/stuns or when he throws his "pocket sand" ) its just laughable.  

giphy.webp

Edited by zen625
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13 hours ago, FIDOISHERE said:

I like this idea. I feel the osprey idea though covers the turret. Overall though if they don't take the idea I'd get behind a unfolddable auto turret idea any day.

The barricades would be cool to block off places or some thing to hide behind I'm not sure where they'd put it since Bastille covers it.

The Heath and ammo idea is neat for utility. But his kit is CC and he needs the damage and other frames cover these. It's not a bad idea though. 

If they want, they can just do the usual and re-use content. The Xiphos turret already has the code n S#&amp;&#036; for the ability.

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20 hours ago, FIDOISHERE said:

Tesla's. this needs to move to minelayer and replace concuss.

Concuss is his best Mine. Already a bad start. Bounce is what needs to go.

 

20 hours ago, FIDOISHERE said:

trip wire, very situational.. but add slash procs too it so it's more than just a trip. Your running into a laser rope.. have it do some thing even a timed minor armor reduction would be nice.

I feel as if Tripwire, when tripped over, should detonate. Dealing damage based on a percentage of the health from the enemy that triggered it

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23 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Concuss is his best Mine. Already a bad start. Bounce is what needs to go.

It sucks but yes I agree it's the best of the bunch in minelayer especially when dealing with corrupted ancients (please kill bounce with extreme prejudice already). 

23 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

I feel as if Tripwire, when tripped over, should detonate. Dealing damage based on a percentage of the health from the enemy that triggered it

Disagree on tripwire detonation at that point its a landmine. Base health damage and a slash proc DOES sound good though. (Tripwire has evolved to Razorwire)

Wait....why dont they combine Concuss and Shred? Stunning a bombard for example and shredding a permanent amount of armor sounds real REAL nice in my head all of a sudden....

Edited by zen625
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9 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Concuss is his best Mine. Already a bad start. Bounce is what needs to go. 

Currently that's his best mine for some Crowd control. does it offer much damage though? no it does not, and that's what i'm trying to focus on. by keeping the majority of his CC kit but adding damage too it. its also more temporary then the other mines. which continue to lock down until they are done. you have to throw concuss out more to get the stun effect and deafen as well as the radiation proc... though this is just my two cents i don't find it too useful unless i really need some thing cheaper than bastille at a moments notice.

 

 

16 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

I feel as if Tripwire, when tripped over, should detonate. Dealing damage based on a percentage of the health from the enemy that triggered it

i actually like this suggestion, they detonate idea is pretty neat and % dmg might be better than the slash proc unless its just detonate with a slash proc so bleed and % of damage.

 

 

5 minutes ago, zen625 said:

It sucks but yes I agree it's the best of the bunch in minelayer especially when dealing with corrupted ancients (please kill bounce with extreme prejudice already)

So even if bounce got that Fortuna upgrade with % of impact damage from them hitting multiple objects for the duration would you say that concuss would still be better overall?

because i'm trying to figure out what to actually suggest for Concuss if it just replaces bounce and Tesla gets moved to Minelayer. unless flat out they're like "hey everyone lets have 5 grenades to choose from!" (i dont know how id feel about that...)

like its already costly to keep throwing it out. do we just making it into a pulse grenade that gives out radiation on pulse and does a certain amount of damage? i don't know. ill have to think on it maybe we can get some idea's during the discussion.

i know people still want bounce that's a reason i kept it within his kit but if has to go.. guess i gotta think of some thing else to suggest

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9 minutes ago, FIDOISHERE said:

So even if bounce got that Fortuna upgrade with % of impact damage from them hitting multiple objects for the duration would you say that concuss would still be better overall?

When dealing with high level enemy's yeah Concuss would still be better I feel. The guaranteed radiation proc does all kinds of wonders when you have deal with enemy units that heal.  Bounce DOES have its uses in Interception (tripwire also stops enemy's from using the consoles) but changes to existing minelayer ability's would just make it redundant. 

11 minutes ago, FIDOISHERE said:

because i'm trying to figure out what to actually suggest for Concuss if it just replaces bounce and Tesla gets moved to Minelayer.

Tesla needs to go I believe. Its fun at lower levels....or trying to make art as you CC the entire map.... but when compared to the damage or utility a sentinel/turret could provide its just to big a energy sink for what it does (even worse with the charge mechanic).

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make it so that players cant shoot out of his bastille so it brings his cc in line with limbo... then ask yourself if youve made good game design choices...

Oh and replace his 1 with cycleable frag and stick grenades that do good-great dmg with the frags being cookable and as one of the only non line of sight abilities in game you would be able to bounce them off walls to get behind corners! 😄

Edited by dyewithasmile
added an actuall idea for improvment and not Just a limbo comparison/critique
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