I Don't Understand The Complaints.

[SweepTheLeg]

I really don't. 

 

Excuse me for taking the unpopular opinion, but I personally thought making stamina more important instead of sacking it makes the game more difficult and was a good decision.

 

Now those stamina mods I have that haven't done anything once since I started playing will be worthwhile.

 

I also found I can't just run through a group of grineer and expect not to eat a million bullets, so now I actually have to be more strategic in playstyle.

 

The amount of work in building keys seems more like an event kind of thing, so yeah, it's not super awesome to have to do that work to make them but it has not been difficult for me. Especially with a Master Thief Mod, I already have about 20 nav coms and I haven't once left a level without getting at least 1. 

 

The most irritating aspect about the patch so far is that I can't find mutagen samples anywhere, but besides that the game is chugging on nicely, in my opinion.

 

Grinding is an aspect of all mmos and usually any game with any sort of RPG element progression. You do it in console games, you do it in online games and MMOs run off of it. Warframe is not on the top list of grind games.

 

Also, Necro does look pretty underpowered from his skill list right now, but I haven't played him, so I don't know for a fact.

Edited September 14, 2013 by loursnoir

[Hayden11121]

I also found I can't just run through a group of grineer and expect not to eat a million bullets, so now I actually have to be more strategic in playstyle..

Funny thing, no rework of the damage system was brought on yet.

[bosstnt]

Funny thing, no rework of the damage system was brought on yet.

not funny at all since they said it wont be in on 1st day of u10.

[SweepTheLeg]

Funny thing, no rework of the damage system was brought on yet.

Yes, so don't run out and eat bullets if you aren't built to. 

 

What they're doing is encouraging build diversity by modifying certain game mechanics so not everyone just puts Flow, Focus, Streamline and Continuity/Constitution in to their builds and hits 1-4 to win. Now you actually have to move around and take cover occasionally and use the storage containers and the other mods they implemented (like equilibrium, which I use).

[EinRyu]

As one who's very used to running with Quick Rest and Rush on almost every Frame, this Stamina Rework... killed everything. Movement fluidity, parkour, melee, jumping, hell I could even say f'ing walking was just flat killed with this. The idea of having Stamina recharge based off a timer was the first huge mistake here, the second was the fact that Quick Rest HARDLY effects the Stamina Regen at all now even maxed, tested on both my Loki, Rhino(Vanguard) and Nova, they were running out of Stamina in about 5~10 seconds of flat running because Sliding doesn't help S#&$ anymore and than having to wait like half a minute for the recharge. It completely wrecks the pace of the game and is completely un-needed, it's not even fun to be a Pure Melee Loki anymore because I can't melee for more than 5 seconds with out having to worry about whether or not I can sprint after! ._.

Edited September 14, 2013 by EinRyu

[Hayden11121]

Yes, so don't run out and eat bullets if you aren't built to. 

 

What they're doing is encouraging build diversity by modifying certain game mechanics so not everyone just puts Flow, Focus, Streamline and Continuity/Constitution in to their builds and hits 1-4 to win. Now you actually have to move around and take cover occasionally and use the storage containers and the other mods they implemented (like equilibrium, which I use).

Funny how you know this before it's released.

 

Last time I checked, it's damage that the enemies take, and elements on them, since most don't use elements, it won't affect us much at all.

[RaptorShinRyu]

 

Excuse me for taking the unpopular opinion, but I personally thought making stamina more important instead of sacking it makes the game more difficult and was a good decision.

 

I don't think you know the difference between difficult and tedious. 

[khimera]

I kinda feel (after my initial frustrations) that we need to wait and see as with all big updates. I think the main problem people have with the keys is that they're ungodly expensive for normal people to make (I.E. they take a LOT of materials that require lots of grinding for.) and that nekros is only available (nonplatinum) by going through the derelicts which requires the keys to get even a chance at the boss of the derelicts. It's nice and all that he's gated, but this is a very heavy gate if you ask me. The best one can hope for is 3 lucky runs and then they can continue on doing it for fun. I think they're going to make the keys slightly less expensive on both time and on resources like salvage and circuits. (which, by far, are harder to come by than nanospores comparatively speaking)

[Justin_Case001]

Ok, let me explain how this works.  The stamina nerf sucks...

 

...That's it.

[Inberun]

As long as the game still revolve around Defense. Stamina = Useless.

[Otaiken]

Soooo... being forced to grind the old content and then wait 3 hours just so I can experience the new (fun) content is okay? It's not items that is held hostage here.. it's the gameplay. You don't hold your supposedly best boss behind grindwall. If you're so concerned about people farming too fast then make some systems to prevent that. But don't lock the gameplay down.. that's just $&*&*#(%&.

 

I just want to fight the boss.. I don't even fing care what he drops. Make him drop mats or something and think of a different system to block players from getting stuff too fast. Like tokens or something.

Edited September 14, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Keltik0ne]

OP, you seem to have confused "feedback" with complaints.

 

Don't worry if you don't understand them, it's not your job to.

[SweepTheLeg]

Funny how you know this before it's released.

 

Last time I checked, it's damage that the enemies take, and elements on them, since most don't use elements, it won't affect us much at all.

I'm not talking about damage rework, I'm talking about how to not get killed while playing the game currently. 

[fatpig84]

As one who's very used to running with Quick Rest and Rush on almost every Frame, this Stamina Rework... killed everything. Movement fluidity, parkour, melee, jumping, hell I could even say f'ing walking was just flat killed with this. The idea of having Stamina recharge based off a timer was the first huge mistake here, the second was the fact that Quick Rest HARDLY effects the Stamina Regen at all now even maxed, tested on both my Loki, Rhino(Vanguard) and Nova, they were running out of Stamina in about 5~10 seconds of flat running because Sliding doesn't help S#&$ anymore and than having to wait like half a minute for the recharge. It completely wrecks the pace of the game and is completely un-needed, it's not even fun to be a Pure Melee Loki anymore because I can't melee for more than 5 seconds with out having to worry about whether or not I can sprint after! ._.

 

What he said. I forgo Redirection on so many frames just to squeeze on quick rest.

[SweepTheLeg]

What he said. I forgo Redirection on so many frames just to squeeze on quick rest.

Quick rest works well though. I mean, I would rather just take off a focus or something instead and put on quick rest and then it's business as usual.

 

Builds need to be altered somewhat, but that doesn't make the game "dead" or "broken" because of it.

[SweepTheLeg]

OP, you seem to have confused "feedback" with complaints.

 

Don't worry if you don't understand them, it's not your job to.

I don't have anything confused.

 

A lot of the posts are blatant complaints. Not criticism or feedback or anything of real grit, just complaints.

[Silvershadow66]

Yes, so don't run out and eat bullets if you aren't built to. 

 

What they're doing is encouraging build diversity by modifying certain game mechanics so not everyone just puts Flow, Focus, Streamline and Continuity/Constitution in to their builds and hits 1-4 to win. Now you actually have to move around and take cover occasionally and use the storage containers and the other mods they implemented (like equilibrium, which I use).

 

Agreed, if you still want to rush you can still do so by using the mods that support that playstyle. Marathon, Quick Rest and Rush mean you can run faster for longer. I think perhaps the system still needs a bit of tweaking but the basic state of how stamina now works seems about right. Quick rest probably needs a boost with the new system and maybe lower stamina consumption rates a bit more.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[Zamte]

Problem I have is that they design every single thing to be "weak" unless you mod for it. To have worthwhile powers I have to dedicate three or four mod slots to power boosting mods. To have decent speed I need rush, and marathon or quick rest. Then I need defensive mods. Most of my frames can get away with just redirection, but Loki's split defensive stats means I need both redirection and vitality. I actually dumped radial disarm for my solo loki build to fit all of the mods I needed to play him effectively as it was. I finally got rid of the quick rest I had been using to make my life more convenient.

 

My Loki needs redirection, vitality, flow, continuity, streamline and constitution. Now I need quick rest to be able to sprint for more than 10 seconds. I ended up dumping flow for thief's wit and radial disarm for quick rest just so I can perform at the same level I used to be able to. 

 

Builds are cool. It's awesome for one frame to be quick and another to be tanky, while a third has a glass cannon setup. The problem is that with the way stats currently work your powers are almost worthless without mods, you die in half a second without mods, you get left behind without mods. You "need" everything just to be reasonable, and there's simply not enough room. We get six slots without counting the power slots, and there's like eight to ten really important core mods now.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Zamte

[SweepTheLeg]

Problem I have is that they design every single thing to be "weak" unless you mod for it. To have worthwhile powers I have to dedicate three or four mod slots to power boosting mods. To have decent speed I need rush, and marathon or quick rest. Then I need defensive mods. Most of my frames can get away with just redirection, but Loki's split defensive stats means I need both redirection and vitality. I actually dumped radial disarm for my solo loki build to fit all of the mods I needed to play him effectively as it was. I finally got rid of the quick rest I had been using to make my life more convenient.

 

My Loki needs redirection, vitality, flow, continuity, streamline and constitution. Now I need quick rest to be able to sprint for more than 10 seconds. I ended up dumping flow for thief's wit and radial disarm for quick rest just so I can perform at the same level I used to be able to. 

 

Builds are cool. It's awesome for one frame to be quick and another to be tanky, while a third has a glass cannon setup. The problem is that with the way stats currently work your powers are almost worthless without mods, you die in half a second without mods, you get left behind without mods. You "need" everything just to be reasonable, and there's simply not enough room. We get six slots without counting the power slots, and there's like eight to ten really important core mods now.

I understand what you mean. I manage though and I don't think it's beyond other players to do so as well.

 

I play Vauban, which is pretty squishy also and I use a build that doesn't utilize the slot for the Bounce skill (although I like bounce and prefer it to vortex right now).

 

My build is: 

Skills: Tesla, Bastille, Vortex

Defense: Vitality, Quick Rest

Tactics: Equilibrium, Master Thief, Streamline, Flow

Attack: Continuity

 

Aura: Corrosive Projection

 

I have no problem surviving any mission solo, save a few rounds of Defense, and I'm not experiencing any kind of significant slow down from the stamina change/nerf/whatever.

 

I took off focus, but for my frame it doesn't necessarily matter and I don't use redirection anyways. Master Thief synergizes with Equilibrium for me to keep my health up and energy orbs are a frequent drop anyways. 

 

It may not be ideal, but the patch makes it so players have to think more to survive rather than just min/maxing. If you want you still can, but you'll have to actually commit yourself to that play style.

 

For wanting specific builds, now you need to play the frame that supports that build. For tanks play tankier frames (Frost, Saryn, Rhino) and so on and so forth for rushing and glass cannons and whatever. Hybridization is still possible though. 

Edited September 14, 2013 by loursnoir

[Acos]

Yes, so don't run out and eat bullets if you aren't built to. 

 

What they're doing is encouraging build diversity by modifying certain game mechanics so not everyone just puts Flow, Focus, Streamline and Continuity/Constitution in to their builds and hits 1-4 to win. Now you actually have to move around and take cover occasionally and use the storage containers and the other mods they implemented (like equilibrium, which I use).

Build diversity? No, what their doing is making stamina mods a requirement. That's not diversity.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Acos

[Zamte]

I understand what you mean. I manage though and I don't think it's beyond other players to do so as well.

 

I play Vauban, which is pretty squishy also and I use a build that doesn't utilize the slot for the Bounce skill (although I like bounce and prefer it to vortex right now).

 

My build is: 

Skills: Tesla, Bastille, Vortex

Defense: Vitality, Quick Rest

Tactics: Equilibrium, Master Thief, Streamline, Flow

Attack: Continuity

 

Aura: Corrosive Projection

 

I have no problem surviving any mission solo, save a few rounds of Defense, and I'm not experiencing any kind of significant slow down from the stamina change/nerf/whatever.

 

I took off focus, but for my frame it doesn't necessarily matter and I don't use redirection anyways. Master Thief synergizes with Equilibrium for me to keep my health up and energy orbs are a frequent drop anyways. 

 

It may not be ideal, but the patch makes it so players have to think more to survive rather than just min/maxing. If you want you still can, but you'll have to actually commit yourself to that play style.

 

For wanting specific builds, now you need to play the frame that supports that build. For tanks play tankier frames (Frost, Saryn, Rhino) and so on and so forth for rushing and glass cannons and whatever. Hybridization is still possible though. 

 

 

To be fair, a lot of it comes from their system. Limiting us first by slots and then by points forces people into a situation where they have to be able to justify using the slot. Then once they've justified using the slot, they have to make sure it's most efficiently using mod points. Due to how mods scale +100% base power for every extra mod point as you rank them, the most efficient stage is always the maxed one.

 

For instance, if I had to worry less about slots, I could do something like put a rank 4 vitality and rank 4 redirection on my loki. He's squishy but he has invisibility. He doesn't need to be a tank, he just needs to not die anytime a light breeze blows. It'd keep him alive and leave me lots of points to use for the things I want to focus on. My Loki could be an invisible melee/shotgun assassin without being a tank or dying instantly to everything.

 

However, because of how limited slots are, the only way to justify using a mod is to go full bore. Using a low ranked vitality or redirection in one of those slots is a huge waste when I could max it, and make the entire mod much more point efficient. This situation makes it so that mods are inherently all or nothing. I either take my maxed redirection or I take none.

 

That leads into the lack of build diversity directly. Most frames simply do not have the base health or shields to live in any mid-to-high level difficulty without defensive mods. You HAVE to take redirection or vitality unless you're a frost, rhino, or maybe a loki who runs in a group you know has a lot of energy siphon to keep invisibility up 100%. You have to take Rush to not be left behind. Now you have to take Quick Rest and/or Marathon. All of these mods are taking up precious slots, so you best max them out because losing a slot for a small stat increase just isn't worthwhile.

 

If we had warframes with 16 total slots and weapons with 10, it'd make things a lot better in this regard. I could justify putting low rank vitality and redirection on my loki to keep him alive, while saving my points for more role-defining mods. I could shore up my low armor a bit, boost my shields some, add a bit of stamina regen, give myself a few meters of loot and enemy radar, and still have room to make myself really quick or incredibly stealthy.

 

So long as the mod system works how it does, it almost necessitates a system of all or nothing. This works alright for things like power mods where they aren't required, but it means everyone has to run redirection and/or vitality, quick rest and/or marathon, rush, etc. It means half of your free (read: non-power) slots are already predefined for you simply because of how warframes are designed. The 3-4 remaining slots and points are just not enough for any meaningful customization.

[khimera]

On the topic of mods, I see why they added A, B, and C sets. It's actually pretty efficient for changing how you wanna play or feel you need to play in a variety of situations. What people don't seem to want to do is give up builds they've already had set in place in favor of changing it up a little. Personally, I can see making three kinds of sets for the warframes you use. A could be your favored set, stuff you want to put in regardless of how effective it is, though for most this is likely an attacking set. B could be a defensive set revolving around keeping your frame alive and functioning. C could be a stamina set or a speed set.

 

Example Set for a Nova.

 

A - 1st, 2nd, and 4th powers; flow, focus, streamline, stretch, continuity; 2 other mods (likely redirection/vitality/steel fiber/survival if you were lucky to get it)

 

B - 1st, 3rd, 4th powers; Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, (survival if you have it, the thing that grants health AND shields from the one event), shield recharge boosting mod, shield frost resistance mod, flow, streamline

 

C - 1st and 3rd powers; quick rest, marathon, rush, new mod that turns shields into stamina, Redirection, Vitality, Constitution, 1 other mod.

 

Auras are up to you, I always use energy siphon regardless of my mod set. Note that this is just an example of what's possible.