The Market. And Why, In Its Current State, Will Be Warframe's Downfall.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I'd like to see where he said that because I bet he was talking about those people not working on the mechanics of the market (e.g. the UI) and was not talking about the prices. In any case that only applies to the last month or so. Do you really think that the person who handles the financial side of DE's business has done no analysis of sales since the cash shop started?

Livestream 12 I think it was (the most recent one, whatever it was)

[Mak_Gohae]

What? More expensive items mean more in ONE purchase, but I don't see your point here.

 

Plat, dude, we are talking about plat.

 

 

 

There aren't many F2Ps that don't have big backing behind it,

 

Oh, dude...... really?

 

 

and SO WHAT? Even if they didn't have big backing behind it, why does that mean they only have reasonable prices because of the big backing? FFS man, make a real argument, or admit you're wrong. I gave F2Ps that do it right, and you come up with "but they have big backers!"? Try again with a REAL argument.

 

Dude...... .if you have a large backing you have more options to try different things.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[Silvershadow66]

What? More expensive items mean more in ONE purchase, but I don't see your point here.

 

There aren't many F2Ps that don't have big backing behind it, and SO WHAT? Even if they didn't have big backing behind it, why does that mean they only have reasonable prices because of the big backing? FFS man, make a real argument, or admit you're wrong. I gave F2Ps that do it right, and you come up with "but they have big backers!"? Try again with a REAL argument.

 

World of Tanks. Items in the cash shop over $50.

 

They have done it right, they have millions of players and have sold well over half a million of the most expensive digital tanks. So high prices do not prevent people from buying things in a F2P game.

 

FFS there are millions of players around the world who would spend $100+ dollars a year just to get access to a subscription game. With a 20% login discount I can get Saryn and 2 Catalysts for less than I paid for 1 month of WoW back in the day.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Plat, dude, we are talking about plat.

Duh? So with your logic, they should price weapons at $10,000, because imagine how much they'd get if someone bought that!

 

Oh, dude...... really?

Duh.

 

Dude...... .if you have a large backing you have more options to try different things.

More GAMEPLAY options, all F2Ps cost something to start up (crazy right), but better prices mean they earn money faster. But seeing as you don't really understand that...

 

World of Tanks. Items in the cash shop over $50.

 

They have done it right, they have millions of players and have sold well over half a million of the most expensive digital tanks.

And? I'm sure they'd sell MORE if they lowered the price to something more affordable (aka "reasonable") for people.

Edited September 15, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Hayden11121]

I cannot stress how badly DE has done this...

 

But you took the time and effort to right this, and link the video.

 

So, here is my +1. Now if you excuse me, I will go back to reading how overpriced everything is, except for my well priced Sentinel *75 plat for 2 potatoes*, and my well priced Loki. *75 plat for reactor and the most entertaining frame to date*

[Silvershadow66]

And? I'm sure they'd sell MORE if they lowered the price to something more affordable (aka "reasonable") for people.

 

No they wouldn't overall. They sell other stuff to the "reasonable"people. That is the point that all the complainers seem to miss. Players have a budget, there is a finite amount they are willing to spend on a game. If you lower the price then the high spenders don't spend as much as they would and the lower spenders still spend the same, they would just buy a frame instead of potaoes. Or Nekros instead of Saryn.

 

DE might tempt a few people to part with a little extra but they lose more on the big spenders as they no longer need to spend as much. By "big" I mean those willing to spend $15+ on a regular basis, say every couple of months.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[KvotheTheArcane1]

No they wouldn't overall. They sell other stuff to the "reasonable"people. That is the point that all the complainers seem to miss. Players have a budget, there is a finite amount they are willing to spend on a game. If you lower the price then the high spenders don't spend as much as they would and the lower spenders still spend the same, they would just buy a frame instead of potaoes. Or Nekros instead of Saryn.

 

DE might tempt a few people to part with a little extra but they lose more on the big spenders as they no longer need to spend as much. By "big" I mean those willing to spend $15+ on a regular basis, say every couple of months.

Or, they'd tempted more people to spend more money, splurge a little here or there. I.e. if I have a budget of $5 a month to spend on video games, I'd probably be more willing to spend it on warframe if I could AFFORD anything in it.

[Wahooo]

Like the slots to put the stuff you've gained by playing the game?  Or the forma/catalysts/reactors to put on those items you've gained by playing the game?

 

Quit worrying so much about buying weapons and frames.  The market is set up to discourage buying weapons and frames.  The market is set up to encourage you to buy cosmetics and accessories, which ARE reasonably priced.  Plenty of stuff you could buy with $5/month.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Like the slots to put the stuff you've gained by playing the game?  Or the forma/catalysts/reactors to put on those items you've gained by playing the game?

 

Quit worrying so much about buying weapons and frames.  The market is set up to discourage buying weapons and frames.  The market is set up to encourage you to buy cosmetics and accessories, which ARE reasonably priced.  Plenty of stuff you could buy with $5/month.

That's a bad idea for the market then. If DE REALLY wanted to discourage weapon/frame buying, they just shouldn't have made the stuff available. By putting the stuff up for sale, they want to sell it. Stuff sells best when priced reasonably.

[Hayden11121]

Like the slots to put the stuff you've gained by playing the game?  Or the forma/catalysts/reactors to put on those items you've gained by playing the game?

 

Quit worrying so much about buying weapons and frames.  The market is set up to discourage buying weapons and frames.  The market is set up to encourage you to buy cosmetics and accessories, which ARE reasonably priced.  Plenty of stuff you could buy with $5/month.

You really think a company would make a game to teach you the morals of buying carefully?

They want money, they just aren't very smart about it.

[Blatantfool]

World of Tanks. Items in the cash shop over $50.

 

They have done it right, they have millions of players and have sold well over half a million of the most expensive digital tanks. So high prices do not prevent people from buying things in a F2P game.

 

FFS there are millions of players around the world who would spend $100+ dollars a year just to get access to a subscription game. With a 20% login discount I can get Saryn and 2 Catalysts for less than I paid for 1 month of WoW back in the day.

 

 World of Tanks method of charging for Tanks is a weird comparison to a Warframe character purchase. 

 

 Arguably there is more to a Tank in WoT then there is to a character in Warframe. I'd argue the Tank is a more valuable purchase, so them charging more makes a little sense. But that might be bias talking - WoT has quite a bit more depth then Warframe gameplay-wise.

 

 But really the truth of it is plenty of WoT players are also the type of people who wouldn't mind collecting Models of the tanks they enjoy. Many, many older gamers in that community. WoT gets away with marketing their Tanks similarly to Model Tanks. Kinda clever honestly. I don't think you can argue that Warframe is doing the same thing. I'd be quick to call BS on that.

 

 Edit: I also notice that you are referencing Subscription purchases too.

 

 Sorry - that comparison is kinda crap too. Someone buying a subscription is getting access to a whole game. Someone buying a Warframe is getting access to one character.

 

 You want to tell me that one Warframe is equal to the purchase of roughly two months access to an entire other game and all the features that it would have? I'm going to be quick to call BS again.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Blatantfool

[Silvershadow66]

 World of Tanks method of charging for Tanks is a weird comparison to a Warframe character purchase. 

 

 Arguably there is more to a Tank in WoT then there is to a character in Warframe. I'd argue the Tank is a more valuable purchase, so them charging more makes a little sense. But that might be bias talking - WoT has quite a bit more depth then Warframe gameplay-wise.

 

Why is it weird? You buy a tank to play it a lot and to shorten the grind, its a slightly different grind in that it allows you to grind to buy other tanks more quickly rather than for the tank itself but the principle is the same.

 

But that is beside the point, the post I was responding to was making a general claim that F2P games don't charge such "unreasonable" prices for single items - they do. Lots of them do and Warframe is not alone in charging $20+ for a single item.

 

 Edit: I also notice that you are referencing Subscription purchases too.

 

 Sorry - that comparison is kinda crap too. Someone buying a subscription is getting access to a whole game. Someone buying a Warframe is getting access to one character.

 

 You want to tell me that one Warframe is equal to the purchase of roughly two months access to an entire other game and all the features that it would have? I'm going to be quick to call BS again.

 

Buying a subscription only gives you access to the game while you are subscribed, stop paying and your access disappears. If I spend equivalent of a 2 months sub to purchase a frame then I can use that frame for months if not years (depending on the longevity of the game). That is the pertinent point, people do have money to spend and spending that money buying frames and weapons is not an outlandish thing to do on a game that you enjoy. If you play Warframe for 6 months and drop $50 it still works out cheaper than subbing to a game for that period.

 

But again you are misrepresenting my post, the reference to subscriptions was purely there to illustrate that there are a lot of people who are willing to pay about $15 a month to play a game that they enjoy. They could do it in a subbed game or they could do it in Warframe to shorten the grind.

[eksby]

No they wouldn't overall. They sell other stuff to the "reasonable"people. That is the point that all the complainers seem to miss. Players have a budget, there is a finite amount they are willing to spend on a game. If you lower the price then the high spenders don't spend as much as they would and the lower spenders still spend the same, they would just buy a frame instead of potaoes. Or Nekros instead of Saryn.

 

DE might tempt a few people to part with a little extra but they lose more on the big spenders as they no longer need to spend as much. By "big" I mean those willing to spend $15+ on a regular basis, say every couple of months.

I think you might have never been in a MMO that is not FPS. Seriously, I used to be one of those "players with a budget", but somehow I've managed to spend over $500+ in another MMO called Mabinogi. And almost everyone I know in that game has spent literally $1000+. We all decided to add up our purchases one day to see how much we spent, and quite a few of my friends were very shocked that they spent so much in the course of one year. They thought they had spent less.

 

So how did it happen? By microtransactions. A couple dollars on gacha, a couple dollars on dyes, $10 or so each on pets. Those small amounts of money really add up. If DE made mod packs cheaper, I'd sure as heck gamble away some money on that, just for the chance to possibly get a mod I want without grinding for it. Same with weapons, and cosmetic items. Do you know why I bought almost all the scarves? Because they were cheap. If those same scarves had been 100 each, I wouldn't even have considered it.

[Mak_Gohae]

I think you might have never been in a MMO that is not FPS. Seriously, I used to be one of those "players with a budget", but somehow I've managed to spend over $500+ in another MMO called Mabinogi. And almost everyone I know in that game has spent literally $1000+. We all decided to add up our purchases one day to see how much we spent, and quite a few of my friends were very shocked that they spent so much in the course of one year. They thought they had spent less.

 

So how did it happen? By microtransactions. A couple dollars on gacha, a couple dollars on dyes, $10 or so each on pets. Those small amounts of money really add up. If DE made mod packs cheaper, I'd sure as heck gamble away some money on that, just for the chance to possibly get a mod I want without grinding for it. Same with weapons, and cosmetic items. Do you know why I bought almost all the scarves? Because they were cheap. If those same scarves had been 100 each, I wouldn't even have considered it.

 

 

The point you just made is that cosmetics slowly get you to spend a lot.

Warframe is at the early stages of that plus the graphics of this game being what they are, adding stuff doesnt seem to be as easy as in game like Mabigoni where hair and eyes really doesnt take that much time to pop out. 

[eksby]

The point you just made is that cosmetics slowly get you to spend a lot.

Warframe is at the early stages of that plus the graphics of this game being what they are, adding stuff doesnt seem to be as easy as in game like Mabigoni where hair and eyes really doesnt take that much time to pop out. 

Cosmetics do make people spend a lot. That's what I'm hoping for more of that with Warframe. Also, in Mabinogi hair and eyes are not the money sinks, it's clothing sets, pets, dyes, and reforges (makes your weapon stronger, similar to forma and potato in a sense). And I disagree about it being difficult to make, in the open beta stage of Mabinogi there were hardly any new clothes and no one used dyes. 2 years later though, they really started to step up the cosmetic items. Same with TF2 and Planetside 2. 

[Wahooo]

You really think a company would make a game to teach you the morals of buying carefully?

They want money, they just aren't very smart about it.

No, they WANT people to play their game. They want to make money from the market while providing an excellent free to play experience. Weapons and frames are not on the market as their source of income, it is frosting for DE when people buy that stuff. It isn't trying to teach spending habits it is to encourage PLAYING over PAYING. maybe that changes after beta once they will be less concerned about getting people to play and give feedback.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

No, they WANT people to play their game. They want to make money from the market while providing an excellent free to play experience. Weapons and frames are not on the market as their source of income, it is frosting for DE when people buy that stuff. It isn't trying to teach spending habits it is to encourage PLAYING over PAYING. maybe that changes after beta once they will be less concerned about getting people to play and give feedback.

And again, that's dumb. DE should either remove the weapons/frames if they want people to "play the game" (aka farm, because that's all there is to do), or fix their prices.

[Wahooo]

Why is it dumb?  if they remove them then NOBODY buys them. They are there because SOME people will want them and will buy them but it isn't the priority.  buying weapons and frames is a luxury and luxury items always cost more than they are worth.  The stuff you NEED?  Well right now the only thing you must spend real life $$ on is slots (and they are working on that) which are very reasonably priced. 

 

Complaining about a luxury item that you can get for NOTHING BUT SOME TIME????

Now THAT IS DUMB.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Why is it dumb?  if they remove them then NOBODY buys them. They are there because SOME people will want them and will buy them but it isn't the priority.  buying weapons and frames is a luxury and luxury items always cost more than they are worth.  The stuff you NEED?  Well right now the only thing you must spend real life $$ on is slots (and they are working on that) which are very reasonably priced. 

 

Complaining about a luxury item that you can get for NOTHING BUT SOME TIME????

Now THAT IS DUMB.

LOL! frames and weapons are "luxury items". Try again, they're NOT luxury items :) They're in the market. Saying the price is there to "discourage buying them" is dumb. If I buy a weapon, I'm gonna play the game. If I don't buy a weapon, I'm gonna play the game. The only difference is what equipment/gear I do with it, and when. Only, one way I'm supporting DE buy spending $$$ to buy more platinum to pick up a few weapons I want, or perhaps a new frame.

 

For example let us pretend I DO buy the all the new stuff in an update, I'm still gonna play, otherwise WHAT WAS THE POINT OF BUYING IT? Say they add a new boss, and tile set (i.e. u10). I'm gonna play to get there, see the tileset, see what they did with it, and then fight the boss, to see what it is like, because they've been doing pretty well with the boss reworks.

 

You assume because people would buy the weapons/frames more often at a decent price, they're now gonna magically stop playing, just because they acquired it. Let me tell ya, not gonna happen.

 

Go on, defend the terrible prices. Defend with stupid reasons why having decent prices on weapons and warframes is a bad idea. Go on, defend why having overpriced stuff is good for DE as a business. Go on, defend it.

Edited September 16, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Wahooo]

For example let us pretend I DO buy the all the new stuff in an update, I'm still gonna play, otherwise WHAT WAS THE POINT OF BUYING IT? Say they add a new boss, and tile set (i.e. u10). I'm gonna play to get there, see the tileset, see what they did with it, and then fight the boss, to see what it is like, because they've been doing pretty well with the boss reworks.

So if the price was lower you would buy all the U10 items for platinum, THEN go play the derelict missions that drop that stuff to see what it is like?  You are a special kind of stupid and criticizing any market model is pretty well beyond your comprehension.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

So if the price was lower you would buy all the U10 items for platinum, THEN go play the derelict missions that drop that stuff to see what it is like?  You are a special kind of stupid and criticizing any market model is pretty well beyond your comprehension.

I'm stupid for saying I'd play new content? LOL you're so funny. Or stupid. One of the two. Or both. Probably both. I'd play the new missions TO SEE WHAT IT IS, not to farm the drops. If I had fun there, yeah, I might go there again, and again.

 

You're reading comprehension sucks, please, go back to first grade, or whatever "special kid" class you're in.

 

Edit: The new content might not even have the weapons drop ONLY there. For example, the soma is a weapon that just needs mats, nothing special, so I could farm anywhere for it.

Edited September 16, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[CapricaSix]

Guys, there's no reason to insult each other, or even argue for that matter. Whether prices are fine or not are your personal opinions and it's a valid feedback either way.

 

@KvotheTheArcane1: I agree with you and Blatantfool on most things said earlier, but DE actually openly encouraged players to get warframes and weapons through playing the game rather than buying them with real money, it's in one of the earlier livestreams but I'm not exactly sure which one. Sad but true, I find it silly too. But apparently that's the way they see it. Maybe they'll sort the market when the game is out of beta testing.

Edited September 16, 2013 by CapricaSix

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Guys, there's no reason to insult each other, or even argue for that matter. Whether prices are fine or not are your personal opinions and it's a valid feedback either way.

 

@KvotheTheArcane1: I agree with you on most things said earlier, but DE actually openly encouraged players to get warframes and weapons through playing the game rather than buying them with real money, it's in one of the earlier livestreams but I'm not exactly sure which one. Sad but true, I find it silly too. But apparently that's the way they see it. Maybe they'll sort the market when the game is out of beta testing.

Eh, well, they've shown they're willing to listen, and I love that about DE, enough feedback on something can get them to change it. And I agree, the game is more fun to farm weapons/frames, but there IS a point when the grind is boring/a weapon someone might just want to skip a grind for (i.e. miter/gremlins, that grind can be HORRIBLE), and they shouldn't be gouged for it. So, hopefully with enough feedback they'll look at it, change their minds, and fix the market.

[duenor]

I am in agreement with Wahoo. The whole driving force behind this game is the desire to acquire new things. Really, what it boils down to is a co-op pillage & loot game. If you really think about it, the Tenno are a bunch of space pirates who murder and hack their way to nifty gun parts. 

 

I'm fine with the prices. I'm also pretty sure that if the prices were not making DE any money, I'm sure they'd lower or figure something else out. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I am in agreement with Wahoo. The whole driving force behind this game is the desire to acquire new things. Really, what it boils down to is a co-op pillage & loot game. If you really think about it, the Tenno are a bunch of space pirates who murder and hack their way to nifty gun parts. 

 

I'm fine with the prices. I'm also pretty sure that if the prices were not making DE any money, I'm sure they'd lower or figure something else out. 

What makes DE money isn't the sale of weapons or frames or slots or whatever. It's the sale of platinum, and as long as that is selling fine, DE makes money. And yes, the driving force of the game for now is to farm. and farm and farm, then grind, then MORE grind, and then some more, but that's a different problem.

Edited September 16, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1