Most Likely Theory About The Sacrfice Debacle

[Ryusuta]

Just now, Atsia said:

He was never told to by Natah in the first place. And there a bunch of evidence to support that she's not against us too.

Such as?

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

15 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Your first sentence kinda contradicts your theory. Given the fact that he immediately attacked us, then ran away, then attacked us 2-3 more times while rejecting all our attempts to connect with him, and considering how would he even be able to mimic the Lotus' voice considering he never met her until she blasted him to bits, it's far more likely that it was Natah who sent the message, it was HER helmet. How would Umbra even have connected with the helmet anyways? And why are you assuming Umbra has any kind of extra connection to the void in the first place given that's there nothing to really suggest so?

 

There more plausible evidence that it was her than Umbra of all things.

 

He was never told to by Natah in the first place. And there a bunch of evidence to support that she's not against us too.

 

 

EDIT: And don't double post.

I didnt double post what the hell are you talking about? A bit presumptuous aren’t you?

The title is just edited on this post here thanks for getting on my case for no reason Jerk.

and if you’re talking about quoting them twice i did so to instigate a response from them don’t immediately get on my thread and start telling me what to do.

It doesn’t make you look cool it makes you seem pretentious. And again you are another person approaching me with zero evidence that she’s on our side.

Edited February 8, 2019 by (XB1)oORubberFruitOo

[Atsia]

9 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Such as?

Well to clarify, against us of her own volition. There the very scene from the Apostasy prologue where Ballas' hand wave does something iffy, considering how Lotus goes from confused to willing to go with him in an instant, and the static feedback we get when he does it. Plus year while entire history of her where she does her absolute best to keep is safe and alive, even if she acts like a complete overprotective mother. From betraying her own kind to keep is alive, to feeling horrified when she learned her model figure Margulis was no better than the rest of the Orokin when we found out about Rell and wanting to save him, to showing up in person to help us in the Second Dream. She's consistently shown that she would just about do whatever for us, so I heavily doubt she would willing leave and betray us just like that.

[Ryusuta]

1 minute ago, Atsia said:

Well to clarify, against us of her own volition. There the very scene from the Apostasy prologue where Ballas' hand wave does something iffy, considering how Lotus goes from confused to willing to go with him in an instant, and the static feedback we get when he does it. Plus year while entire history of her where she does her absolute best to keep is safe and alive, even if she acts like a complete overprotective mother. From betraying her own kind to keep is alive, to feeling horrified when she learned her model figure Margulis was no better than the rest of the Orokin when we found out about Rell and wanting to save him, to showing up in person to help us in the Second Dream. She's consistently shown that she would just about do whatever for us, so I heavily doubt she would willing leave and betray us just like that.

Ah, okay. Fair enough.

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

5 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Ah, okay. Fair enough.

He isn’t making a point at least not any that I can see to me he’s just restating what everyone else has said.

This is of no importance it does not explain her actions it just adds further questions. Plus she didn’t need to do this in order to prepare us for the sentient invasion the Tenno for a long time now have known that it was coming it was just a matter of when.  

Why compromise the tennos trust? She has nothing to gain from it. 

Why does she voluntarily go along with the sentients? 

Doesn’t her siding with the sentients of her own volition mean she had indeed betrayed us.

It does not explain her heel turn it does not explain anything.

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by (XB1)oORubberFruitOo

[Ryusuta]

Just now, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

He isn’t making a point at least not any that I can see to me he’s just restating what everyone else has said.

This is of no importance it does not explain her actions it just adds further questions. Plus she didn’t need to do this in order to prepare us for the sentient invasion the Tenno for a long time now have known that it was coming it was just a matter of when. 

It does not explain her heel turn it does not explain anything.

 

It clarifies that the person meant she's being mind controlled as opposed to willingly turning traitor.

As I said, it's a moot point to me because either way I want nothing to do with Lotus at all.

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

1 minute ago, Ryusuta said:

It clarifies that the person meant she's being mind controlled as opposed to willingly turning traitor.

As I said, it's a moot point to me because either way I want nothing to do with Lotus at all.

They say right in their post that she does it of her own volition not that sees mind controlled.

[Ryusuta]

Just now, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

They say right in their post that she does it of her own volition not that sees mind controlled.

Like I said, to me, it's a moot point either way.

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

2 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Like I said, to me, it's a moot point either way.

Yeah I guess so I don’t understand why everyone is trying to defend space momma so vehemently. Do you have any ideas?  Even the idea of her betrayal being possible is enough for me not to want to have anything to do with her.

Edited February 8, 2019 by (XB1)oORubberFruitOo

[Ryusuta]

Just now, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

Yeah I guess so I don’t understand why everyone is trying to defend space momma so vehemently. Do you have any ideas? 

They want to be loyal to her and want to believe in her. It's sort of an idealistic stance. I respect it, but I don't agree.

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

Just now, Ryusuta said:

They want to be loyal to her and want to believe in her. It's sort of an idealistic stance. I respect it, but I don't agree.

Same tbh... it just annoys me how willing they are to be loyal to someone who has potentially stabbed them in the back.  It’s like a skewed form of Stockholm Syndrome.

[Atsia]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

They say right in their post that she does it of her own volition not that sees mind controlled.

No I didn't. I've stated that it's highly unlikely that Lotus would leave and betray us of her own volition, given that her every action before Apostasy was to do best by the Tenno, even for one she never met or knew existed. Even more so given that it's very obvious Ballas did something with his little hand wave thing since it immediately caused to do a 180 in personality. There's nothing that 100% shows she betrayed us that isn't questionable by previous actions or surrounding events. But on topic, there no significant evidence to Umbra being to one to contact us in the Sacrifice over it being Natah herself.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Atsia

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

1 minute ago, Atsia said:

No I didn't. I've stated that it's highly unlikely that Lotus would leave and betray us of her own volition, given that her every action before Apostasy was to do best by the Tenno, even for one she never met or knew existed. Even more so given that it's very obvious Ballas did something with his little hand wave thing since it immediately caused to do a 180 in personality. But on topic, there no significant evidence to Umbra being to one to contact us in the Sacrifice over it being Natah herself.

There’s no significant evidence saying umbra didn’t either. Or that even lotus did sure that may have been her voice but she was no longer using the helmet so seems as though we’re stuck at an impass. There is no significant evidence either way not for if she did or didn’t betray us and not for who exactly contacted us through the helmet because it sure as hell couldn’t have been the lotus even though it was her voice I still don’t think it was her and I did explain further back in this thread why I thought it was umbra.

[Atsia]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

There’s no significant evidence saying umbra didn’t either. Or that even lotus did sure that may have been her voice but she was no longer using the helmet so seems as though we’re stuck at an impass. There is no significant evidence either way not for if she did or didn’t betray us and not for who exactly contacted us through the helmet because it sure as hell couldn’t have been the lotus even though it was her voice I still don’t think it was her and I did explain further back in this thread why I thought it was umbra.

Every action Umbra takes after we rebuild him suggests otherwise. If he really contacted us for our help (how would he even know who we are in the first place given he's been locked up for XX years) why would he attack us straight out the gate, then leave, then attack us 2 more times and reject all of our attempts to connect with him? How would he have known to try and contact someone through the Helmet? How would have have connected to it in the first place? Your only given explanation is he's "in-tune" with the void. How? There nothing to suggest he connected to the void in any capacity.

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

4 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Every action Umbra takes after we rebuild him suggests otherwise. If he really contacted us for our help (how would he even know who we are in the first place given he's been locked up for XX years) why would he attack us straight out the gate, then leave, then attack us 2 more times and reject all of our attempts to connect with him? How would he have known to try and contact someone through the Helmet? How would have have connected to it in the first place? Your only given explanation is he's "in-tune" with the void. How? There nothing to suggest he connected to the void in any capacity.

Warframes are built to house void energy as well as to utilize it did you intend for that to sound rediculous? OF COURSE HES CONNECTED TO THE VOID HE WAS MADE INTO A  WARFRAME AND HIS CONCIOUS HENCE EXISTS IN IT BECAUSE THATS WHAT WARFRAMES DO.

Edited February 8, 2019 by (XB1)oORubberFruitOo

[Atsia]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

Warframes are built to house void energy as well as to utilize it did you intend for that to sound rediculous? OF COURSE HES CONNECTED TO THE VOID HE WAS MADE INTO A  WARFRAME AND HIS CONCIOUS HENCE EXISTS IN IT BECAUSE THATS WHAT WARFRAMES DO.

What even? Frames themselves have no innate connection to the void, that's the operator. Just being made to help contain/direct void energy =/= having enough of a connection to it to contact a random person through something you don't even know exists. Hell, they weren't even made with void energy in mind, they were only discovered to be a good conduit for Tenno to channel void energy through later.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Atsia

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

6 minutes ago, Atsia said:

What even? Frames themselves have no innate connection to the void, that's the operator. Just being made to help contain/direct void energy =/= having enough of a connection to it to contact a random person through something you don't even know exists. Hell, they weren't even made with void energy in mind, they were only discovered to be a good conduit for Tenno to channel void energy through later.

Then how come he’s able to use the void energy when we aren’t operating him huh? And what about his first confrontation with ballas he seemed to use it pretty fine.

[Atsia]

Just now, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

Then how come he’s able to use the void energy when we aren’t operating him huh? And what about his first confrontation with ballas he seemed to use it pretty fine.

Warframe abilities aren't void energy, given that they don't affect Sentients like actual void energy from the operator.

[(XBOX)vx Axol xv]

11 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Warframe abilities aren't void energy, given that they don't affect Sentients like actual void energy from the operator.

Umbra isn’t your typical warframe though that’s what you don’t understand he’s special. And sort of yes warframe abilities are void energy in a way.

Edited February 9, 2019 by (XB1)oORubberFruitOo

[ChaoticEdge]

2 hours ago, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

*snip*

Dude its not like we can't kill it, we killed J6 was it?  That space infested golem, I did it solo killing it and I didn't have problems murdering it and getting worried about this, we probably need get a ship and then go in operator mode probably put the kid in special pod that give the ship void energy that goes kratatata or just stream laser to amp up the power of the void energy.  Why do you think its long way making progress in the game and sorry to DE if you did partly plan that as a spoiler alert.  Plus its future content and it has no reason involved with hunhow with this now and no more cuz that is in wut awakening the sentient and pretty much that is it he just reprogram for that and just start murdering tenno because they want clean up void ppl.  Lotus probably can't use her full power during that time because well LOOK AT THE WIRES SHE IS HOOK UP and if she leave everyone will go nuts about this and she can't use her sentient power and if she do it the other sentient will wake up and that is why.

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

I just said why he would do it genius. Or did you miss that?

Ok, for one, insulting me does not make your argument more valid. Neither does making a bunch of other posts trying to goad me into responding. I was busy doing other things

2 hours ago, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

FOR REVENGE people when given the opportunity will do anything to get vengeance upon those who wronged them. That would be reason enough for umbra contacting the Tenno from the void by mimicking the voice of lotus because he wanted to be brung back into existence TO EXACT HIS REVENGE. Plus reacting the way he did when you actually crafted him TAKES PLANNING and I wasn’t saying he needed our help to defeat ballas he needed help returning to our plane of existence.

Because i don’t know maybe he cant reconstruct himself  when he was basically blown into a million pieces.

If the call happened in real-time, well then we have to ask why he called us before being destroyed - why? He didn't know he was going to be destroyed, and again, he's one of the best warriors ever, or was before his transformation. Why would he assume he'd need the help of an upstart kid? And again, why didn't he stay after the fact if he wanted our help?

If he contacted us after - how? Because... well, he was dead. Last I checked, that's not conducive to communication.

How would he mimic the voice of the Lotus? From what we hear of his voice, his voice is very, very deep. Also, he can't talk. And how did he even contact us? He doesn't have a transference link at this point and to our knowledge, has no inherent psychic abilities.  Certainly he doesn't display any prior to transference.

How does slamming a kid half your size into the wall, getting your mind violated and then leaving take planning? Seems to me more like the reaction of a half-crazed monster with the sole thought of 'MURDER BALLAS' waking up to having your mind be invaded by aforementioned kid. Which he was before transference remember?

2 hours ago, (XB1)oORubberFruitOo said:

And you give me virtually no reason to not assume that he is at least semi sapient.

And of course I won't give you a reason to assume he's not sapient... because he is. That's a necessary, but not a sufficient condition to believe your theory. He is sapient, but that's not sufficient to prove your theory.