Remove death animations or add innate punch through for weapons, enough to pierce any one enemy

[Basalto]

Death animations have been one of the things I've talked about (complained) to people for quite a lot of time, possibly going over two years with the same story: it's boring, bland and nullifies any impact a weapon is supposed to have in the gameplay. Imagine getting a pistol that's the equivalent of the Desert Eagle, one of the most powerful handguns in the history of gaming, and headshotting an enemy; they're supposed to feel something, right? Maybe get pushed back severely, drop dead with the impact force alone, two backflips and a half, I dunno. What can they do instead? Fainting backwards as if they had a heart attack from the gun's noise or something. The worst part about these is that not only do they break the immersion of an otherwise powerful weapon (thank #*!% Corinth doesn't do that; it's an actual video game shotgun and possibly my favorite single-shot weapon in the whole game), but they also work to block bullets. Without punch through and using a weapon that has this very bad affinity for triggering death animations, you're looking at wasting bullets on an already dead enemy because they just refuse to go down until their death animation ends. That said, what I ask is either of the following, which I already kindly put in the title: remove the death animations entirely and make every weapon trigger physics or add innate punch through for every single weapon in the game to prevent death animations from blocking bullets.

[taiiat]

this is part of why Punch-Through Mods have such great value and are worth those 15 Mod Points, and the cheaper Nightmare versions being worth more than their Mod Points. shrug.

 

_{also, getting hit in the head with a .50AE Desert Eagle would certainly impart some force and accelerate the target to the ground, with their feet as a fulcrum point - but a lot of the energy would also pass straight through if you're using FMJ or any non expanding ammo type.
though even with an expanding Ammo type, you'd just dump more energy into the head and accelerate towards the ground faster. but you also might blow the back half of the head out, and still end up dumping energy into the air.
that's assuming that the Desert Eagle wouldn't stovepipe and jam after the first shot, since the Desert Eagle has a well earned reputation for stovepiping for the .50AE chambered models.}

[Basalto]

6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

this is part of why Punch-Through Mods have such great value and are worth those 15 Mod Points, and the cheaper Nightmare versions being worth more than their Mod Points. shrug.

People also use holster speed mods to mitigate the painfully slow weapon switch (for a game about space ninjas with fast-paced gameplay and now a nearly instant switch between melee and ranged), but that still wouldn't make it an unnecessary change. Honestly, draining 15 points out of 60 (and even 8 out of 60) to mitigate a bad design choice is just absurd.

[taiiat]

9 minutes ago, Basalto said:

People also use holster speed mods to mitigate the painfully slow weapon switch (for a game about space ninjas with fast-paced gameplay and now a nearly instant switch between melee and ranged), but that still wouldn't make it an unnecessary change. Honestly, draining 15 points out of 60 (and even 8 out of 60) to mitigate a bad design choice is just absurd.

Weapon Switching is different - we got instant switch for some parts now, so now we definitely need all of the rest to have it too. getting a part of it makes the rest feel very slow and limiting.

Punch-Through gives far more than just ignoring Corpses though. it's a massive Damage Multiplier that few Players actually make use of, despite it having such immense power.
i think there's more than enough benefits to it for it to be a major consideration to peoples' Mod choices ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Basalto]

2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Weapon Switching is different - we got instant switch for some parts now, so now we definitely need all of the rest to have it too. getting a part of it makes the rest feel very slow and limiting.

Punch-Through gives far more than just ignoring Corpses though. it's a massive Damage Multiplier that few Players actually make use of, despite it having such immense power.
i think there's more than enough benefits to it for it to be a major consideration to peoples' Mod choices ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Whether it's useful as a damage multiplier or not is irrelevant to the situation. The point is that I should not be forced to use it because death animations get in the way of the shooting, plain and simple. Serration and any other base damage mods are already bad enough as mandatory mods; let's not keep metal auger and the other punch through mods being the same case.

[peterc3]

Bodies aren't intangible. That is part of the game to mitigate with your modding. Innate PT for all guns is just an extreme amount of power creep across the board.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Basalto said:

The point is that I should not be forced to use it because death animations get in the way of the shooting, plain and simple. Serration and any other base damage mods are already bad enough as mandatory mods; let's not keep metal auger and the other punch through mods being the same case.

but then, why should any Mod provide some useful benefit to my Gameplay, so that i might highly desire to use it?
because that's the road we're falling down here. if it's something a Mod can solve, then it should be given automatically. 

[Basalto]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Bodies aren't intangible. That is part of the game to mitigate with your modding. Innate PT for all guns is just an extreme amount of power creep across the board.

Then the removal of death animations it is. DE already showed it can be done for guns, as is the case with Corinth. Why they don't do that is beyond me. Besides, if it's so mandatory, as the other guy here is hellbent on saying, what would be the issue anyway? Integrating base damage mods in weapons and removing the associated mods is one of those ideas that would work well, but people don't like it because "omg don't change my game", and DE is afraid of pissing people off by making a very necessary change in the game. If punch through is so mandatory to mitigate a dumb part of the game that hasn't been removed yet, possibly because of the people that keep chanting "just use 1/4 of your mod capacity for a punch through lol" and make it seem like something that is not up to DE to fix, but the player themselves, which is an absurd concept. It also reminds me of the people who chant "just use saryn lol" to everyone complaining about the annoying armor scaling.

 

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

but then, why should any Mod provide some useful benefit to my Gameplay, so that i might highly desire to use it?
because that's the road we're falling down here. if it's something a Mod can solve, then it should be given automatically. 

At this point it just looks like you're missing the point on purpose. This is not some kind of "use it to shoot through cover", "use it to shoot through multiple enemies", or "use it to save ammo" case. It's about a completely ordinary "feature" in the game hindering the player and forcing them to use a mod that is not supposed to be mandatory, unlike the base damage ones. Again, the issue is the correlation between death animations and the consequent necessity of punch through to not be hindered by them, not "is punch through bad or not"? By so insistently putting punch through mods as the alpha solution to such a stupid issue, you're putting death animations on the same pedestal that defense types like armor and shields are, and I can't think of any word for it that isn't to express some kind of mix between insult and shock, because really, it's baffling to see such a simple change be opposed with such nonsense. Limiting the player's options in such a game that seemingly prides itself on freedom should never be encouraged.

[taiiat]

18 minutes ago, Basalto said:

It's about a completely ordinary "feature" in the game hindering the player and forcing them to use a mod that is not supposed to be mandatory,

well, it isn't. Player Mobility in this game is very high, you could easily move when the Enemy dies to shoot the ones in the general area behind it. it takes about as much time to move positions for a different Line of Sight as it does to mentally acquire a new Target.
but, there are Mods that can offer alternatives to that.

Edited March 31, 2019 by taiiat

[Basalto]

31 minutes ago, taiiat said:

well, it isn't. Player Mobility in this game is very high, you could easily move when the Enemy dies to shoot the ones in the general area behind it. it takes about as much time to move positions for a different Line of Sight as it does to mentally acquire a new Target.
but, there are Mods that can offer alternatives to that.

Yeah, let me just keep dodging and sliding and circlestrafing nearly every kill instead of actually having the problem rectified as a whole by a simple solution. What's wrong with just wanting to aim down the sights and kill enemies? Is that too much to ask from a shooter? And no, it does not take about as much time to move yourself to a position the death animation isn't blocking, as it does to "mentally" acquire a new target. Acquiring the target is a nearly instant input; you kill, you notice it's dead, you already move to another without thinking about what to do next. It's like getting your hand burned; you just move your hand out of the way because that's what you do. Meanwhile, a constant "did it trigger a death animation, if so I should move" is just going to be obnoxious and breaking the flow of the brain's automatic thinking for something that DE can just fix and get rid of the problem as a whole.

[DatDarkOne]

21 minutes ago, Basalto said:

Meanwhile, a constant "did it trigger a death animation, if so I should move" is just going to be obnoxious and breaking the flow of the brain's automatic thinking for something that DE can just fix and get rid of the problem as a whole.

Think if adding a mod in game as the same as switching ammo types for a gun in real life. You can have the same gun have different effects on hit/contact just by changing the ammo type.  @taiiat already mentioned Full Metal Jacket ammo in comparison to expanding type ammo like hollow points or hydroshock rounds.  

That said, just think of the weapon having default ammo of the expanding on contact type.  Then you modify it with a punchthru mod to use non-expanding ammo.  

Given this knowledge/reasoning, I have to agree with Taiiat that there isn't an issue.  Meaning there isn't a problem because DE has given us choice in how we want our weapons to behave.  

[Basalto]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Think if adding a mod in game as the same as switching ammo types for a gun in real life. You can have the same gun have different effects on hit/contact just by changing the ammo type.  @taiiat already mentioned Full Metal Jacket ammo in comparison to expanding type ammo like hollow points or hydroshock rounds.  

That said, just think of the weapon having default ammo of the expanding on contact type.  Then you modify it with a punchthru mod to use non-expanding ammo.  

Given this knowledge/reasoning, I have to agree with Taiiat that there isn't an issue.  Meaning there isn't a problem because DE has given us choice in how we want our weapons to behave.  

Then why don't crit damage mods reduce punch through? Warframe isn't a game about realism, so there's no reason to pull realism in the equation. What I'm asking is a simple solution to a simple problem that doesn't involve murdering 1/4 of the capacity of every single weapon I have to combat an issue that can be fixed as a whole by the developers, while simultaneously making every weapon feel more satisfying and meatier. It's a win/win situation for everyone, and I'd have it no other way, but people seem allergic to winning.

[DatDarkOne]

14 minutes ago, Basalto said:

but people seem allergic to winning.

What?  We are playing a PvE game in which our character vastly overpowers are enemies on a regular basis.  We are winning as soon as Vor releases us from our stasis.  Since we are already so powerful, the only real thing that can be offered is choice in how we do the "winning" in this PvE game.  If you don't like how a certain weapon makes the enemies behave, either mod it to behave as you want or use a different weapon.  It's that easy.  

I don't like the huge recoil of the Lex Prime/AkLex Prime.  So instead of asking for a change to be made to a weapon that everyone seems to like, I switched to the AkMagnus (a very underrated weapon IMO) and got exactly what I wanted (with tennogen skins to boot).  

Edit:  also should you want the enemies to have less stagger when hit, then either use a weapon without any Impact damage or mod it were impact has les effect.  😄

Edited April 1, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Basalto]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

What?  We are playing a PvE game in which our character vastly overpowers are enemies on a regular basis.  We are winning as soon as Vor releases us from our stasis.  Since we are already so powerful, the only real thing that can be offered is choice in how we do the "winning" in this PvE game.  If you don't like how a certain weapon makes the enemies behave, either mod it to behave as you want or use a different weapon.  It's that easy.  

I don't like the huge recoil of the Lex Prime/AkLex Prime.  So instead of asking for a change to be made to a weapon that everyone seems to like, I switched to the AkMagnus (a very underrated weapon IMO) and got exactly what I wanted (with tennogen skins to boot).  

Edit:  also should you want the enemies to have less stagger when hit, then either use a weapon without any Impact damage or mod it were impact has les effect.  😄

"Use another weapon" has always been the lazy solution people throw around when someone criticizes a specific weapon. Yeah, sure, let's leave old weapons to rot, nobody cares about them... except the new players who will inevitably use them, but it's not like we should care about those either, right? It's all about big numbers and brainless farming, not enjoying juggling enemies in the air with a machinegun, no; "having fun" is a dead expression.

And please, let's not try to change the subject to something irrelevant for the umpteenth time here. The issue is not stats; I couldn't give less of a S#&$ about how big my gun's recoil is or how big its damage numbers are. The subject is one, and only one: death animations and the mandatory punch through to mitigate them. I'm not asking for a change to any specific weapon "everyone seems to like", since the only weapon I mentioned at all was Corinth, in order to give an example of how I'd prefer every other weapon to behave. Corinth doesn't trigger death animations, or at least I haven't seen one so far, and therefore it just fits me. I deeply enjoy using it and wish for its level of enjoyment to extend to other weapons, because, as I'm trying to point out, a game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable even on simple things like that, not playing Overwatch's counter system with the death animations and the mods, which is just obnoxious.

I also have no idea where the stagger came from, but hey, just shows you are just throwing words around without actually trying to understand what I've been trying to say since the beginning, just like the other guy.

[Wolfglaive]

2 hours ago, Basalto said:

 1/4 of the capacity of every single weapon I have 

If you never forma your gun, sure. And assuming you haven't used a forma on a weapon, you've got bigger problems than death animations being mildly annoying on a weapon with no punch-through.

[Basalto]

6 minutes ago, Wolfglaive said:

If you never forma your gun, sure. And assuming you haven't used a forma on a weapon, you've got bigger problems than death animations being mildly annoying on a weapon with no punch-through.

That's still 8 points down the drain for something that could be solved universally, as well as making me have 6 mod slots instead of 7 (because Serration is still a thing, which is a testament to the laziness of the design) to use for something else. If something is mandatory everywhere, might as well integrate it, just like base damage mods should be integrated with the weapon's ranks and the respective mods removed from the game. I could go in-game to get a screenshot of my Soma Prime build later, which was actually one of the things that propelled me to create this topic, since it's one of the only weapons where I just had to dump Shred in favor of an increased DPS to deal with high-level content.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Basalto

[DatDarkOne]

40 minutes ago, Basalto said:

I also have no idea where the stagger came from, but hey, just shows you are just throwing words around without actually trying to understand what I've been trying to say since the beginning, just like the other guy.

I was trying to get you o see that there are various factors such as damage type, special abilities, etc of weapons that do effect the behavior of enemies and their death throws.  That you are blatantly ignoring the information we are giving you shows that you are only interested in what you want regardless of the larger picture.  

15 minutes ago, Basalto said:

(because Serration is still a thing, which is a testament to the laziness of the design) to use for something else. If something is mandatory everywhere, might as well integrate it, just like base damage mods should be integrated with the weapon's ranks and the respective mods removed from the game.

This one is a different debate altogether.  One which has been debated both on the forums and by DE themselves in Devstreams.  The problem with his one is that no one has decided if integrating those mods would be good or not just yet.  

15 minutes ago, Basalto said:

I could go in-game to get a screenshot of my Soma Prime build later, which was actually one of the things that propelled me to create this topic, since it's one of the only weapons where I just had to dump Shred in favor of an increased DPS to deal with high-level content.

Or just maybe you could make it into a hybrid crit/status build and still have a weapon that does even better against high level enemies without punchthru.  using Dual stat mods instead of 90% ones would also give you more mod points/space to include Shred back in the build.  

But this whole topic you have is basically that you want to use weapons with very high RoF while being extremely efficient with each bullet/projectile.  If I am understanding his correctly, my responses will still stay the same.  

Edited April 1, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Basalto]

 

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

I was trying to get you o see that there are various factors such as damage type, special abilities, etc of weapons that do effect the behavior of enemies and their death throws.  That you are blatantly ignoring the information we are giving you shows that you are only interested in what you want regardless of the larger picture.  

I have considered the "larger picture" and the "larger picture" of "just waste mod space for it lmao" or "just use another weapon lmao" does not address any of the concerns I presented, not to mention intentionally missing my point, which was to not waste mod space for it and not have to resort to using another weapon. I'm a bit intrigued with how you feel the need to point out that I'm interested in what I want, though. Of course I am, it's why I made this topic; if I wasn't interested, I'd simply have kept shut. There also seems to be a misconception that I am trying to be convinced otherwise, but I spent 5 years not being convinced otherwise through playing this game. I'm not changing my mind because 5 years of the same thing speak more volume than people who appeal to realism on a sci-fi game and propose incredibly lazy band-aid solutions to a design flaw with an extremely simple solution.

 

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

Or just maybe you could make it into a hybrid crit/status build and still have a weapon that does even better against high level enemies without punchthru.  using Dual stat mods instead of 90% ones would also give you more mod points/space to include Shred back in the build.  

But this whole topic you have is basically that you want to use weapons with very high RoF while being extremely efficient with each bullet/projectile.  If I am understanding his correctly, my responses will still stay the same.  

Been there, done that. 5 years in this game and you think I wouldn't understand how to make more space for a mod? Like, come on, that almost sounds like an insult. The idea of a crit build is that you aim for the head and, indeed, are extremely efficient with each bullet because of it. That's how headshot crits work, really; they just deal massive damage and reward good aim, and that's how I like to play it. I hardly care about fire rate and damage per shot in a game where I get ammo by the bulk and only run out if I think shooting the foot is a good idea; what gets me is damage per second, and the very reason I gave up on Shred on my Soma Prime build was because of it. I could not have punch through, crit and status and damage on the same weapon, so I chose to give up one of those and made the weapon a single-target death machine instead of a conga line vanquisher, which severely outlined the death animation issue, as I was waiting for enemies to fall so I could hit the one behind them, as opposed to my Tiberon Prime with Shred, which just melts anything in a straight line.

All I ask is for weapons to properly trigger physics like the Corinth and remove this unnecessary issue in the game. Death animations, like having fun in games, are a thing of the past, of when computers used to bottleneck trying to run Source's ragdoll physics and FEAR was the top tier benchmarking game.

To quote a very good example I've been recently playing, Killing Floor 2 has exactly the kind of kills I want: you shoot, they drop dead and don't block your bullets with an outdated animation. Now I'll just wait for some smartass to come and say "then play Killing Floor 2 instead lolololo".

 

*: I took the liberty of taking some screenshots of both Soma and Tiberon to show why it's an issue:

Soma currently has Fanged Fusillade as a placeholder while I don't spend forma to make it the way I need it to be: corrosive and cold. That's 3 slots for crit and crit damage, two for Serration and Split Chamber, and three for the dual stat mods that will compose corrosive and cold. If I am to replace Split Chamber with Shred, which I have previously done, my DPS will suffer against the broken design of Grineer units.by reducing the status chance and not taking advantage of the already high fire rate to trigger Split Chamber without it being a hindrance, unlike in single-shot weapons.

Spoiler

 

Tiberon, on the other hand, allows the use of Shred because I mostly use semi-auto and the gun is, and I can't stress this enough, overpowered enough to not need Spit Chamber to outperform Soma Prime. I mean, look at the crit damage and combined damage. Headshots are absolutely lethal to any unit. I use Shred on it because I enjoy what it brings to me in terms of fire rate and punching through cover. I do not, in any form, force myself to use Shred to circumvent a S#&$ty issue with an extremely ordinary part of the game. Also, 10% chance to not deal double damage is how I see Split Chamber on my semi-auto headshot crits.

Spoiler

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Basalto
The edit button liked my face.

[DatDarkOne]

13 minutes ago, Basalto said:

All I ask is for weapons to properly trigger physics like the Corinth and remove this unnecessary issue in the game. Death animations, like having fun in games, are a thing of the past, of when computers used to bottleneck trying to run Source's ragdoll physics and FEAR was the top tier benchmarking game.

To quote a very good example I've been recently playing, Killing Floor 2 has exactly the kind of kills I want: you shoot, they drop dead and don't block your bullets with an outdated animation. Now I'll just wait for some smartass to come and say "then play Killing Floor 2 instead lolololo".

At his point I'm not sure if you want more realism or less of it.  it's the statement about death animations that's causing my confusion on this one.  

Then there's the referencing of Killing Floor 2.  I just found and watched gameplay of it.  then watched some gameplay of headshots in Warframe so I could slow both videos down to analyze.  After doing this and viewing both games has lead me to believe one of two things: Either you are being extremely nitpicky or I'm missing your meaning.  

I'm going to assume that I'm just missing something.   

[Basalto]

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

At his point I'm not sure if you want more realism or less of it.  it's the statement about death animations that's causing my confusion on this one.  

Then there's the referencing of Killing Floor 2.  I just found and watched gameplay of it.  then watched some gameplay of headshots in Warframe so I could slow both videos down to analyze.  After doing this and viewing both games has lead me to believe one of two things: Either you are being extremely nitpicky or I'm missing your meaning.  

I'm going to assume that I'm just missing something.   

I don't care about realism nor do I care about the lack of it. Warframe has guns, I'd like guns need to trigger physics and not death animations, for both "I'm not wasting 8 to 15 capacity and a mod slot to not deal with that" and "it's fun" reasons.

I understand you not being able to see it from one video. It's not one video, it's five years. Not all guns fortunately trigger constant death animations, but not all guns do not trigger death animations at all. When it does happen, it's obnoxious. Curiously, you were the only person to actually raise the point of not seeing it as often as it sounds like I see it, so kudos for that. Using the brain is a rarity and all that stuff.

I actually went to record some footage to upload and demonstrate what I'm talking about, and for that I got a Braton and a Lato, which was my new player stuff. I'm actually surprised with the amount of ragdoll deaths, but also disappointed that there were death animations and they more than broke the flow of power the weapons had going on for them. Some animations exaggerate an enemy flipping sideways and smashing the ground, while others just pull a crappy faint, and it does not correspond to the power of the weapons. I mean, DE used such things for nearly any weapon I had. My Boar Prime used to trigger them constantly before I actually bothered changing it to blast (which is a very poor move for DPS, but I believe you can understand me wanting a shotgun, not a big pistol that fires a bunch of bullets together and makes enemies faint with the shot sound). Anyway, I'm not going to cherry pick footage and edit it to make it look like only death animations are a thing, just going to reinforce it's an issue that they do exist in a game where higher levels make it mandatory for you to kill everything as fast as possible, as well as that I have been seeing them on and on for years breaking any fun I had in weapons such the Drakgoon.

[taiiat]

5 hours ago, Basalto said:

as well as making me have 6 mod slots instead of 7 (because Serration is still a thing, which is a testament to the laziness of the design) to use for something else.

correction: 1 Mod Slot, sometimes up to 3 Mod Slots for your extra Utility or Damage choices.

on every Gun in the game, atleast 4 Mod Slots are already spoken for. Secondaries atleast 5 in almost all circumstances.
and usually a Gun has Crit and/or Status aptitude, which means 2 more are spoken for. potentially 3 or 4.

 

which was exactly the point, that every Mod can't just be something innate just because you have a (potentially strong) desire to use it.

4 hours ago, Basalto said:

Soma currently has Fanged Fusillade as a placeholder while I don't spend forma to make it the way I need it to be: corrosive and cold. That's 3 slots for crit and crit damage, two for Serration and Split Chamber, and three for the dual stat mods that will compose corrosive and cold. If I am to replace Split Chamber with Shred, which I have previously done, my DPS will suffer against the broken design of Grineer units.by reducing the status chance and not taking advantage of the already high fire rate to trigger Split Chamber without it being a hindrance, unlike in single-shot weapons.

Tiberon, on the other hand, allows the use of Shred because I mostly use semi-auto and the gun is, and I can't stress this enough, overpowered enough to not need Spit Chamber to outperform Soma Prime. I mean, look at the crit damage and combined damage. Headshots are absolutely lethal to any unit. I use Shred on it because I enjoy what it brings to me in terms of fire rate and punching through cover. I do not, in any form, force myself to use Shred to circumvent a S#&$ty issue with an extremely ordinary part of the game. Also, 10% chance to not deal double damage is how I see Split Chamber on my semi-auto headshot crits.

you would literally do more Damage and apply more Status with Split Chamber instead of Hammershot on both Weapons depicted there. (since you think Split Chamber is the thing to consider dropping for Punch-Through on Soma)
which leaves Tiberon to start with, having plenty of room for both Split Chamber and Shred. and you could just throw Hammershot in a dumpster and use Shred instead. Hammershot while not as useless as the Community generally likes to put it as, is also a hyperniche Mod that is only useful in 1-3% of Combat situations. in general play, it is dramatically inferior to a lot of other Damage Mods. if you really want to have something competitive against Shred on your Soma there, have the competing Mod be Vigilante Armaments or something. which is also relatively weak most of the time, but it's still better than Hammershot in this scenario.
you do make your life more complicated by insisting on having extra Elementals, which while are nice, again that extra Multi-Shot will cover increasing Status, increasing the performance of Crits, and ofcourse increase general Damage.

Tiberon is where it's even more hilarious, because Hammershot rather than Split Chamber....
well, based on the Mods yo have there currently, Hammershot is providing you:

• 25% extra Status Probability
• 27.27% extra Damage on Crits

when Split Chamber would offer you:

• 90% extra Status Probability (i know it's not quite that much and it's more like 80something but it's close enough, and generally everybody considers Split Chamber as 2x everything anyways)
• ~90% extra Damage at all times, or generally double Damage

honestly you kinda created the problem for yourself in these depicted scenarios. by opting away from some core must have Mods, to significantly weaker ones and then feeling you don't have space for the core must have Mods.

Edited April 1, 2019 by taiiat

[ExcaliburUmbra]

One of the reasons I love the Quartakk rifle. Ragdolls on kill, innate punchthrough, and punchy sound design.

[Soraya]

So... bullets are gonna get stuck in bodies, and most guns aren't going to ragdoll enemies the way you suggest on death. There's more to guns feeling powerful than that, and I feel like Warframe does a good job--audio, visuals, hit effects... I agree that more guns should bypass death animations, for exactly that reason--but is it really reasonable to expect it from every gun? A regular bullet, even Future Desert Eagle one, isn't gonna propel someone backward significantly. Bullets just don't do that, which is a bigger immersion issue, I think. From a more 'cinematic' standpoint, I can see where you're coming from, since it's pretty common in movies--but I still don't agree.

As for the point of dying enemies blocking bullets... I really, honestly don't mean to dismiss your concern with this, but this has never been a problem for me. Maybe it is a problem, because you're struggling with it, but I've never had enemies blocking one another like that in anything but the narrowest hallways, where that makes sense as an environmental complication, because in any other situation you can strafe into a clearer line of fire. I'm not likely to waste more than one shot's worth of ammo before I reorient myself. And in any situation where enemies are going to be swarming like that, I've got something to deal with the crowd. Rhino's Charge and Stomp abilities, my Staticor, or even just switching to melee to thin the crowd, as a few examples. 

[Basalto]

6 hours ago, taiiat said:

 

Maybe, uh, start clicking on heads before talking S#&$ about Hammer Shot and read again the part where I said I use semi-auto on Tiberon.

 

4 hours ago, Protera said:

So... bullets are gonna get stuck in bodies, and most guns aren't going to ragdoll enemies the way you suggest on death. There's more to guns feeling powerful than that, and I feel like Warframe does a good job--audio, visuals, hit effects... I agree that more guns should bypass death animations, for exactly that reason--but is it really reasonable to expect it from every gun? A regular bullet, even Future Desert Eagle one, isn't gonna propel someone backward significantly. Bullets just don't do that, which is a bigger immersion issue, I think. From a more 'cinematic' standpoint, I can see where you're coming from, since it's pretty common in movies--but I still don't agree.

As for the point of dying enemies blocking bullets... I really, honestly don't mean to dismiss your concern with this, but this has never been a problem for me. Maybe it is a problem, because you're struggling with it, but I've never had enemies blocking one another like that in anything but the narrowest hallways, where that makes sense as an environmental complication, because in any other situation you can strafe into a clearer line of fire. I'm not likely to waste more than one shot's worth of ammo before I reorient myself. And in any situation where enemies are going to be swarming like that, I've got something to deal with the crowd. Rhino's Charge and Stomp abilities, my Staticor, or even just switching to melee to thin the crowd, as a few examples. 

I'm not saying enemies should be backflipping with every weapon, really. I'm just using Corinth as an example of a weapon that triggers physics on every single kill I see, and never gives me any throuble with corpses blocking bullets. The Lex sometimes just punches the enemy hard enough on a headshot to make them drop dead even faster by giving them a starting velocity. It's more like semi-realistic physics that give each weapon a feeling of power, without straying from the weapon type's design. Hell, I'm pretty annoyed with my Soma slicing apart low-level enemies with a single crit headshot; it just feels so exaggerated to point one bullet out of 200 in their face and watching them behave as if I dumped 50 with the intention of making them into Swiss cheese. It's the little things that make a game entertaining, and KF2 is praised by its gore; I believe DE could learn a thing or two from Tripwire in that regard.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Basalto

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Basalto said:

Maybe, uh, start clicking on heads before talking S#&$ about Hammer Shot and read again the part where I said I use semi-auto on Tiberon.

Uhh, maybe try Split Chamber instead of using Hammer Shot.

The Head multiplier is x2 on crit no matter how high you boost the crit damage. Crit modding doesn't give exponential increases to headshot/weakspot damage.

Sacrificing 30% elemental to slot a 60/60 instead of a 90 and putting Multishot gives more damage PER CLICK and more status per click with your build.

Taiiat is absolutely correct here.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Guest