Buffs and Nerfs. Ego and salt

[(PSN)No_Skill0508]

So at first I was going to just make this a list of weapons I think should be nerfed or removed those being (Staticor, Telos Boltace, Snipetron, and Arca Titron.) But I decided maybe not, Instead I wanna try to get some feed back from DE or someone, on who specifically handles Conclave balancing and what exactly is their design philosophy and intended purpose to what they add and don't add, and also why its a good thing to listen to the community and sometimes bad (especially in the conclave niche) but mostly good.

I'd like to first start off with the sheer unbalance of it all at the moment and how this breeds a toxic environment. Example: a person with a nidus+telos boltace combo would be almost impossible to beat especially if they learned how to be very good at a not so hard to use weapon and frame, this regrettably from my experience this will feed their ego and will absolutely get to their head, especially when the victim has no possible way to counter it with their loadouts or refuses to use meta/cheese things due to some made up honour. Most shrug it off but for those that don't it just ends up being a toxic fest of laughing at eachother or seeing who's better in a "1v1 me bro" situation this in my opinion is one of the primary reasons its important to keep balance in conclave it will both make it "fair" and more enjoyable for the overall conclave player and at that theoretical point the one player complaining would actually be (for lack of a better term) a scrub that needs to invest a bit more time in learning conclave, instead of most complaints today that have legitimate reasons.

Secondly, the question of weapon/frame balance and what is the intention behind it, Ideally I wouldn't want DE staff to be forced to figure out conclave and balance it from their own experience, because like many a fighting game for example, the player base will far exceed developers expectations I'm also not naive and say DE should just listen to the "pros" or the 2 Conclave YouTuber that exist" so in that sense I'm not entirely sure how we could keep Conclave at a consistent balance between balanced and op (I'll give a little anecdotal personal thing tho, the Daikyu I personally think its not op if you were told it one shots, alot of people would say its op but its charge rate, travel time, and small hitbox requires the user to have some ability with aiming same goes for the Opticor even though its hitscan and does alot more damage) this is just a fear I and maybe others have, nerf something the majority of casual players complained about in one match? Or listen to the consistent players with actual time and hopes to see Conclave be somewhat popularised and balanced but the majority voice (casual players) will be better heard.

Lastly, yes nerf the weapons listed above but not to obsolete, yes this is another wishful pipe dream post of 'how to fix conclave' I just want the toxicity and unbalance to end ;-; sowwy. I just want feedback or a stable update of Conclave for 5 months

TL;DR I talk outta my oro 

 

 

[--Q--ualityContent]

Staticor just need to be unable to equip "heavy warhead" and get a damage falloff from the point of impact.
Telos boltace needs to just disable the passive slide attack thing.

Snipetron is a high skill ceiling weapon so that actually just punishes you if you can't aim. 4 shots.
Arca Titron is a very slow hammer so likewise a high skill ceiling weapon.

Just small tweaks, not complete removal, conclave misses some weapons already.

p.s. Don't know why the formating is so bad.

Edited May 18, 2019 by F4MouSz_L3op4rD

[Stormdragon]

12 hours ago, (PS4)No_Skill0508 said:

So at first I was going to just make this a list of weapons I think should be nerfed or removed those being (Staticor, Telos Boltace, Snipetron, and Arca Titron.)

Staticor indeed has too much going on for it:

>Decent flight speed even with heavy warhead.

>Electric damage (which gets increased by the proc and can be increased further by chaining targets) 

> Damage scaling linearly with charge, but flight speed being reduced only if charge hits 100%

> Can hold charge indefinitely.

> Knocks down enemies hit while holding the charge.

> Doesn't respect line of sight

> No self damage (low risk high reward weapon)

> Big mag fitting 100% of its ammo pool

I'm not sure at all how could it be tweaked, but since it's damage already is different to PvE i'd probably start by either capping electric proc damage (like on the lanka) or straight up changing it to IPS (like Simulors); making its aoe respect line of sight, reducing clip size by half, and the rest might be fixing some unintended behavior like flight speed not decreasing linearly with charge and AoE vfx not reflecting the actual aoe hurtbox size.

Telos Boltace's main imbalance is its ability to randomly pull enemies only to then knock them down while also dealing damage, so I agree with F4MouSz_L3op4rD on it being disabled, it would also make it consistent with the rest of syndicate melee weapons that have active effects (Vaykor Sydon's radial blind, Sancti Magistar's heal on charge, etc) that have already been disabled for PvP. 

Snipetron... snipers as a whole became easier to use with their rework around the release of Plains of Eidolon where their firerate was increased and damage was slightly toned down. However, since DE's balance philosophy seems to be making weapons mechanically consistent between PvE and PvP, these would have to be balanced through mods (+dmg/+recoil/-fire rate for most snipers, +dmg/-firerate/-reload speed for vectis series) quoting an old thread by Triplinster:

Quote

I think, with snipers we need to go back. Back to high recoil, back to lower fire rate, back to reason-able amounts of damage and skill justifying headshot damage. Back to being real snipers.

Arca Titron is really, really slow and doing mistakes with it is also easy to punish due to its long animations and recovery times.

12 hours ago, (PS4)No_Skill0508 said:

I wanna try to get some feed back from DE or someone, on who specifically handles Conclave balancing

Good luck with that, even tough some concerns get addressed (removal of zaws being the most recent example), it takes really long for it to happen and the last dev reply on this subforum was ages ago.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Stormdragon
Tweaked a few words

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

I agree with all the weapons getting nerfed as long as the staticor does the same damage and knockdown if you run into players. 

My advice is to target the players who use nidus with high damage puncture weapons, i see a lot of ribbium clones abusing the more exploitable part of my build when it was only intended to help gain stacks to survive cheese weapons like the daikyu and other 1 shot weapons. This encouraged players to switch to weapons that required more effort and i hoped the community would benefit from my discovery, but no they just abuse and exploit because theres no consitant dev team that plays pvp to know what actually needs fixed

[SevenLetterKWord]

On 2019-05-18 at 1:20 AM, (PS4)No_Skill0508 said:

I'm not entirely sure how we could keep Conclave at a consistent balance

Ideally, with constructive feedback and discussion.
Disclaimer for consoles:

Spoiler

On 2019-05-01 at 8:19 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

Quick note that the console variant of Conclave is significantly different in that it appears to be impossible for controller users to bullet jump anywhere besides directly forwards.
(Low variability of aim speed due to physical limitations of joysticks prevents the quick look-asides required to issue sideways/backwards bullet jumps.)

As a result, controller users spend more time on the ground and are less capable of dodging telegraphed attacks, hence the relative perceived strength of weapons like the Amprex and Mios, which are anywhere from mediocre to terrible in PC Conclave.

Console Conclave should have independent balancing which accounts for the limitations of controllers.

 

 

On 2019-05-18 at 1:20 AM, (PS4)No_Skill0508 said:

Snipetron

Snipers in general haven't been well-balanced since the Rubico and Snipetron Vandal had 1.5 fire rate and respectively 2-shotted mediums and lights.
Today, the Snipetron in particular is busted, capable of two-shotting any frame short of Rhino Prime (not counting Inaros, who is tankier on paper but still dies to 2 shots).
There are only four frames who can naturally survive two shots. Every other frame dies in half a second.

On 2019-05-18 at 8:55 AM, Stormdragon said:

Staticor indeed has too much going on for it

Large AoE is fundamental to the Staticor's identity, and easy to play around given the slow projectile speed incurred by use of Heavy Warhead.
However, counterplay becomes far less viable when you consider the fact that the explosion totally ignores LoS restrictions and hits players through walls.
Pretty much all other AoE weapons respect LoS restrictions; the Staticor should as well.

A smaller issue: the Staticor's magazine capacity. It's the same as in PvE, 48. Most other weapons with relatively large PvE magazines have had their capacities reduced for Conclave. The Staticor can fire 8-9 fully charged shots after factoring in the cost for holding max charge. Considering that it takes maybe 4-5 shots to kill the average frame, and that the reload time is fairly short anyways, it's just too lenient. The Staticor's magazine capacity should be halved, or even quartered.

Finally, and this is common to all sources of electric damage, the Staticor can deal electric chain damage. The percentage dealt isn't visible in the arsenal, nor is the percentage standard across different electric weapons. Electric damage isn't particularly strong (actually weaker than balanced physical damage), and the Staticor's proc damage isn't overwhelming (guessing 10-25%), but hiding this inconsistent information isn't helping anyone out.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

My advice is to target the players who use nidus with high damage puncture weapons, i see a lot of ribbium clones abusing the more exploitable part of my build when it was only intended to help gain stacks to survive cheese weapons like the daikyu and other 1 shot weapons. This encouraged players to switch to weapons that required more effort and i hoped the community would benefit from my discovery, but no they just abuse and exploit because theres no consitant dev team that plays pvp to know what actually needs fixed

Huh.
Looks like I forgot the secret seventh category on The Wheel of Conclave "Feedback":

Spoiler