Volcanic Eruption Ember

[Maka.Bones]

Flavor text: Imagine engulfing yourself in flames, and launching yourself like a meteorite into a group of grineer. You dodge gunfire as you're travelling towards them at high speed;  the air is so hot that it melts bullets, and warps the trajectory of anything that would hit you. When you crash into the grineer, the air bursts into a wave of infernal flames that melts the eyes and armor of the enemies around you. Before the enemies can recover and retaliate, you burst and heat the air so rapidly that it turns into an eruption of superheated plasma... The ground you stand on, the walls, the enemies, have all become a molten sublimation of something they used to be. 

 

1st suggestion: Allow heat to do bonus damage against one of the "armor" types...( whether it's allow, or ferrite, idgaf) and "melt" some of the armor off with status proc (maybe weak points? or just armor reduction + damage to the enemy)

Passive

Issue: It rarely activates, and requires the user to harm themselves or take damage. Not sustainable.

Suggestion: Change it to a "heat counter" of sorts, which increases Power str, Efficiency, and cast speed (same buffs as old passive) for each ability cast by ember. When her gauge is past a certain threshold, ember starts to inflict damage on herself.

The heat counter would scale from 0-200. Ember can reach 100% safely, but beyond 100% she starts to "Overheat" and drains her energy overtime, at which point, her abilities start earning her double the amount of the heat points. Putting her in overheat, would unlock the "overheat" ability mechanics.  Edit: The cost of heat points scales with efficiency & STR (more str = higher cost. More efficiency = lower cost). +300% power Str,  -50%  efficiency build, shouldn't be very effective at maintaining heat counters for a long time. Additionally, If the player runs out of energy while they're in "overheat" it'll start draining 1-5% of their hp every 3s (the energy & hp drain, scales with duration). Ember needs to reach the "overheat" threshold, to use "overheat" ability mechanics.The hotter the flame, the faster it burns through fuel.

Fireball

Issue: fun in concept, but the CC doesn't last long, really long cast time when I can simply just shoot my weapon. It isn't very effective above lvl 60 (even when fully charged)

Suggestion: Either super-overhaul the damage and increase the cast speed (pls) while melting off enemy armor, or replace it with a different ability like one of these:

Spoiler

(New Ability) Fireball:  (she becomes the fireball, and gains temporary invulnerability)

This, but with fire. 

 Ember engulfs herself in fire, while launching herself at an enemy target by rapidly heating the air under/behind her. (essentially, she becomes the fireball, and leaps to the enemy then explodes when she lands). While casting this ability, she's immune/resistant to damage. The ability procs fire status to enemies within 5m of her, or against enemies hit by her (5m AoE effect)

Range: 25m; Damage: 1500 (max lvl) 3,000 at 100% heat, 7500 at 200% overheat (yes, i want to make sure it kills whatever enemy this heats, or that it severly hurts them)

How this would help improve her kit: This would give ember much needed mobility, and some damage mitigation, while keeping some active CC capabilities. 

Earns her 15 heat pts

Pros of new fireball: It launches her forward, while providing  brief moment of invulnerability/defense. It facilitates & rewards her "in your face" style of gameplay

 

Fire Mustang: (Would ideally melt armor)

Accelerant

Issue: The casting animation can stop ember's movement, and the CC duration short, while being inconsistent with different enemy types. 

Suggestion: Remove her animation lock, and make the CC duration standard across all enemy types, and make it a "toggle" LoS aura like banshee's "silence" (Earns her 30 heat pts)

Alt suggestion: Buff ember's and allies' weapons with fire damage, and whenever you kill enemies with heat procs, allies & ember will gain energy back (Earns her 20 heat pts)

Fireblast

Pros: It looks & sounds cool

Issue: 1.It stops ember's movement. 2.The knockdown this produces, cancels out any other existing CC effects (which makes this ability counterintuitive fo CC, or teamwork). 3.Any CC this produces, doesn't last more than literally 1-2 seconds. 4.The fire damage that weapons get from it, doesn't seem very effective even when multiple fireblasts are stacked together. 5.The fire damage buff, requires people to shoot through a very narrow field. 6.The AoE on the ground only damages enemies that are stepping on the edge of the zone; t doesn't harm enemies within the AoE.  7.You require an augment, for this AoE to produce heat procs, and it only works on the edge of the rings.  8.It doesn't kill much above lvl 25.  I noted 8 issues with fireblast.

Suggestion: Change this into something different please. I would suggest something that uses 15% of her "overheat" gauge, restores her energy overtime, while giving her both damage reduction & evasion. The DR and evasion would scale with her heat gauge, and NOT very much with power str. 

I would call it "Hearth"  or "renewing embers" or "Cloak of Embers" (maybe in latin, or japanese... amaterasu?)

Spoiler

Ember would envelop herself in flames, recovering some of her energy and causing the superheated air around her to repel incoming attacks. If ember were to lethal damage while this effect is active, nullify the damage and detonate her "eruption" while consuming all her stored heat (Heat gauge needs to be in overheat mode, to avoid death... uses 1/2 of currently stored heat). 

Inspired by Boeing's plasma shielding  (boeing uses lasers that create superheated plasma, to reduce the impact of explosives and redirect/diverge potential damage to humvees... ember could similarly redirect/dampen damage, by superheating the air around her) ,

and @(PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby's scorching blight, but mine regens energy instead of HP... though I wouldn't be opposed to restoring both HP and energy ;D

"Scorching Blight will be an ability that allows Ember to strip the fire off the bodies of ignited enemies to cause slight nearby damage, recover Health and Damage Reduction."

Link to MyUnhealthyHobby's post below:

My apologies for making such a long thread, but thank you so much for taking the time to read this if you did. 

World On Fire

Pros: It's like fireblast, but it actually kills enemies and it travels with you. It also has some neat CC effects.It has AMAZING visuals and sounds. 

Issue: The reduced AoE makes this hard to use as a CC ability, and it means you have to get in your enemy's faces to kill anything. This is hard to do, when her kit literally stagnates her movement, which exposes her to getting shot at... a lot. But this ability also caused issues with "automatically killing enemies"

Suggestion: Implement the 1st ability I suggested, to solve for her lack of movement. Also replace this with another ability like Eruption

Spoiler

Sublime Eruption:  you basically blow up, by turning all the air(gas) within 9m into super-heated plasma.  If you use this without consuming "heat" then it produces 40 heat, and costs 40 energy, but doesn't heal ember, or benefit from ember's "heat" modifiers. 

Hold the power to consume 25 of ember's built-up "heat/overheat"  per 0.3s, and deals enhanced AoE damage to enemies within 18m of her, while healing herself. Health recovery and damage, is further enhanced by her overheat gauge. 

• When consuming/releasing "overheat" this power leaves behind a "scorched ground" effect, that deals DoT for enemies stepping on it. It also gives ember a lingering heat AoE effect that acts like a minor version of WoF but only lasts 5-10s

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

I edited this post, to make it into a new "rework" suggestion, instead of just linking my old suggestions. 

[Maka.Bones]

@(PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby dude, I made this post for you. So at least comments your thoughts on it 😂  

[(PSN)chibitonka]

On 2019-06-17 at 3:09 PM, Maka.Bones said:

 

I'm really sorry for how long this post is, and i'm sorry that you're seeing YET ANOTHER "ember rework suggestion" but someone asked me to make one. I can't take credit for all of these concepts/ideas, as they were inspired by other tenno's suggestions.

1st suggestion: Allow heat to do bonus damage against one of the "armor" types... whether it's allow, or ferrite, idgaf... make heat be effective against more groups of enemies. 

Passive

Issue: It rarely activates, and requires the user to harm themselves or take damage. This is incredibly difficult in most maps, as there aren't many sources for heat procs--especially without the player killing themselves. The few times you can get it, it's not very sustainable.

Suggestion: Change it to a "heat counter" of sorts, which increases Power str, Efficiency, and cast speed (same buffs as old passive) for each ability cast by ember. When her gauge is past a certain threshold, ember starts to inflict damage on herself. The heat counter would scale from 0-200. Ember can reach 100% safely, but beyond 100% she starts to "Overheat" and harms herself with each new ability cast. At which point, her abilities start earning her double the amount of the heat points. 

Fireball

Issue: fun in concept, but the CC doesn't last long, really long cast time, when I can simply just shoot my weapon, and it can't kill many enemies higher than lvl 60 (even when fully charged)

Suggestion: Either super-overhaul the damage, and increase the cast speed (pls), or replace it with a different ability with a similar effect

  Hide contents

Fireball: Ember engulfs herself in fire, while launching herself at an enemy target by rapidly heating the air under/behind her. (essentially, she becomes the fireball, and leaps to the enemy then explodes when she lands). While casting this ability, she's immune/resistant to damage. The ability procs fire status to enemies within 5m of her, or against enemies hit by her (5m AoE effect)

Range: 25m; Damage: 1500 (max lvl) 3,000 at 100% heat, 7500 at 200% overheat (yes, i want to make sure it kills whatever enemy this heats, or that it severly hurts them)

How this would help improve her kit: This would give ember much needed mobility, and some damage mitigation, while keeping some active CC capabilities. 

Earns her 15 heat pts

Accelerant

Issue: The casting animation can stop ember's movement, and the CC duration short, while being inconsistent with different enemy types. 

Suggestion: Remove her animation lock, and make the CC duration standard across all enemy types, and make it a "toggle" LoS aura like banshee's "silence" (Earns her 30 heat pts)

Alt suggestion: Buff ember's and allies' weapons with fire damage, and whenever you kill enemies with heat procs, allies & ember will gain energy back (Earns her 20 heat pts)

Fireblast

Pros: It looks cool

Issue: It stops ember's movement, The knockdown this produces, cancels out any other existing CC effects (which makes this ability counterintuitive fo CC, or teamwork). It doesn't kill much above lvl 25.The fire damage that weapons get from it, doesn't seem very effective even when multiple fireblasts are stacked together. The fire damage buff, requires people to shoot through a very narrow field. The AoE on the ground, only damage enemies that are stepping on the edge of the zone... it doesn't harm enemies within the AoE. You require an augment, for this AoE to produce heat procs, and it only works on the edge of the rings. 

Suggestion: Change this into something different please. I would suggest something that uses 10% of her "overheat" gauge, restores her energy overtime, while giving her damage reduction

I would call it "Hearth"  or "renewing embers" or "Cloak of Embers"

  Reveal hidden contents

Similar to @(PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby's scorching blight, but mine regens energy instead of HP... though I wouldn't be opposed to restoring both HP and energy ;D

"Scorching Blight will be an ability that allows Ember to strip the fire off the bodies of ignited enemies to cause slight nearby damage, recover Health and Damage Reduction."

Link to MyUnhealthyHobby's post below:

 

World On Fire

Pros: It's like fireblast, but it actually kills enemies and it travels with you. It also has some neat CC effects.

Issue: The reduced AoE makes this hard to use as a CC ability, and it means you have to get in your enemy's faces to kill anything. This is hard to do, when her kit literally stagnates her movement, which exposes her to getting shot at... a lot. But this ability also caused issues with "automatically killing enemies"

Suggestion: Implement the 1st ability I suggested, to solve for her lack of movement. Also replace this with another ability like Erruption

  Hide contents

Eruption consumes all of ember's built-up "heat/overheat" gauge, and deals AoE damage to enemies within 18m of her, while healing herself. Health recovery and damage, is further enhanced by her overheat gauge. 

 

Kinda hoping her Eruption makes the ground blister and burn to blackened perfection. 

Hard pressed to give an opinion that isn't tainted by high standards of what fire attacks should be. damn you jrpg's for ruining me x:

[Maka.Bones]

On 2019-07-03 at 4:51 PM, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Kinda hoping her Eruption makes the ground blister and burn to blackened perfection. 

Hard pressed to give an opinion that isn't tainted by high standards of what fire attacks should be. damn you jrpg's for ruining me x:

Yeah that's kinda what I want as well lol. 

I'm imagining something like this, but with some sort of blackened and deformed ground

[Maka.Bones]

This would also be awesome 

 

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

On 2019-07-03 at 10:34 AM, Maka.Bones said:

@(PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby dude, I made this post for you. So at least comments your thoughts on it 😂  

Is that MUSTANG! The King of Snapping those fingers! I love it lol. 

But in all seriousness, this is a very unique and thought out kit. I’m actually really curious of how it would look in action just to see how I would build Ember as I continued to play around with it. I hope they get to reworking Ember as soon as possible.

Edited July 9, 2019 by (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Is that MUSTANG! The King of Snapping those fingers! I love it lol. 

But in all seriousness, this is a very unique and thought out kit. I’m actually really curious of how it would look in action just to see how I would build Ember as I continued to play around with it. I hope they get to reworking Ember as soon as possible.

Your thoughts inspired me to add some flavor text:

Flavor text: Imagine engulfing yourself in flames, and launching yourself like a meteorite into a group of grineer. You dodge gunfire as you're travelling towards them at high speed, and the air is so hot that it elts bullets and warps the trajectory of anything that would hit you. When you crash into the grineer, the air bursts into a wave of infernal flames that melts the eyes and armor of the enemies around you. Before the enemies can recover and retaliate, you burst and heat the air so rapidly that it turns into an eruption of superheated plasma... The ground you stand on, the walls, the enemies, have all become molten residue of something they used to be. 

Edit: I also edited my build, so that her 4th would have an option to be used without consuming heat, but it would cost energy. 

(Basically, you want to keep her 2 toggled on. Engage with her 1, and destroy with her 4... refresh 3 as needed)

Edited July 9, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)chibitonka]

7 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Yeah that's kinda what I want as well lol. 

I'm imagining something like this, but with some sort of blackened and deformed ground

needs more bodies being sublimated. *turned from solid into gas* 

and air distortions, maybe nearby items melted/melting. 

 

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

needs more bodies being sublimated. *turned from solid into gas* 

and air distortions, maybe nearby items melted/melting. 

 

Dude... "Sublimated"

Awesome, I've just learned a new word!

[(PSN)chibitonka]

21 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Dude... "Sublimated"

Awesome, I've just learned a new word!

:o 

see what i mean tho? Think eastern games ruined my input on stuff like this D:

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

Her third ability, make it a way to revive herself if she dies, like she rises back up like a phionex and does that cool thing her fire blast does that knocks down enemies

[Maka.Bones]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Ghost--00-- said:

Her third ability, make it a way to revive herself if she dies, like she rises back up like a phionex and does that cool thing her fire blast does that knocks down enemies

Nah, no thanks.  This is a volcanic ember, not a phoenix ember (and that would only be useful if she dies.... shouldn't be dying in the first place)

But if DE wants to make that into an augment, that's up to them (doubt it though)

Edit: Actually that does sound like a cool idea... I'm just not sure that it fits on her 3 as it is. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Ghost--00-- said:

Her third ability, make it a way to revive herself if she dies, like she rises back up like a phionex and does that cool thing her fire blast does that knocks down enemies

I changed my mind, and thought of a way to incorporate your suggestion into my build in a way that feels balanced. Please let me know what you think:

"Ember would envelop herself in flames, recovering some of her energy and causing the superheated air around her to repel incoming attacks. If ember were to lethal damage while this effect is active, nullify the damage and detonate her "eruption" while consuming all her stored heat (Heat gauge needs to be in overheat mode, to avoid death... uses 1/2 of currently stored heat). "

[Maka.Bones]

I added a suggestion to have "heat damage" melt armor, or have Ember's 1 melt armor

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2019-07-09 at 9:59 PM, Maka.Bones said:

Nah, no thanks.  This is a volcanic ember, not a phoenix ember (and that would only be useful if she dies.... shouldn't be dying in the first place)

But if DE wants to make that into an augment, that's up to them (doubt it though)

Edit: Actually that does sound like a cool idea... I'm just not sure that it fits on her 3 as it is. 

Yea my bad, she has this bird like look is why i said that. Its kool, nvm

[Maka.Bones]

On 2019-07-12 at 10:13 PM, (PS4)Ghost--00-- said:

Yea my bad, she has this bird like look is why i said that. Its kool, nvm

I ended up adding it on there. Check it out

Edited July 22, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

WTB more ideas/suggestions or constructive criticism. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

Here are My old ember rework posts, for more ideas 

 

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[HolySeraphin]

Considering that accelerant already gives 50% cast speed (and it is quite a lot) I don´t think that a casting speed bonus is necessary for her passive. The bonus from her accelerant is already enough to make fire blast quite fast, for example. Also, what if at 101-199% abilities hurt Ember by 5% of her total health, and at 200% she starts leaving flames behind just like Nezha's first ability? It would give her some minor CC, especially if she's fleeing from enemies, and a reason to keep the 200% if you are only using your weapons. A visual indicator would be good too, for 101-199% it could be WoF's fire effect, and 200% would be Ember's entire body burning.

For her 1 I would go for the second option, rushing into enemies looks too much like Gauss's first ability and Zephyr's. A great pillar of fire would be a good choice, though. Maybe it could leave the ground burning for 10 seconds (not affected by mods). I would put the damage at 500 and the overheat mechanic can increase it up to 1500. This means that with no mods you could deal 3,750 heat damage if you are overheated and used accelerant. With 200% power strenght you would further increase it to 15,000, because it would affect the base damage and accelerant itself.

I´m not sure DE would allow something similar to her old Accelerant on her 3, aka damage reduction. The phoenix idea could be used, though, after all Oberon has something similar as his augment. 

What if we keep Fire Blast, but make the ring always follow Ember (the ring is 5m and not affected by mods)? Therefore you would always get the bonus fire damage, which will synergize really well with accelerant. You could also make it so that if you hold down the ability Ember summons a 5m radius pillar of fire at her location for as long as you hold the button, draining energy per second. The sheer fire power would act as a barrier, making her invincible for the duration. The fire meter could also be used, if you are between 101-199% it adds a second pillar at another locating, prioritizing the tougher enemy, and at 200% you create a third pillar.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by HolySeraphin

[Maka.Bones]

4 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

Considering that accelerant already gives 50% cast speed (and it is quite a lot) I don´t think that a casting speed bonus is necessary for her passive. The bonus from her accelerant is already enough to make fire blast quite fast, for example. Also, what if at 101-199% abilities hurt Ember by 5% of her total health, and at 200% she starts leaving flames behind just like Nezha's first ability? It would give her some minor CC, especially if she's fleeing from enemies, and a reason to keep the 200% if you are only using your weapons. A visual indicator would be good too, for 101-199% it could be WoF's fire effect, and 200% would be Ember's entire body burning.

For her 1 I would go for the second option, rushing into enemies looks too much like Gauss's first ability and Zephyr's. A great pillar of fire would be a good choice, though. Maybe it could leave the ground burning for 10 seconds (not affected by mods). I would put the damage at 500 and the overheat mechanic can increase it up to 1500. This means that with no mods you could deal 3,750 heat damage if you are overheated and used accelerant. With 200% power strenght you would further increase it to 15,000, because it would affect the base damage and accelerant itself.

I´m not sure DE would allow something similar to her old Accelerant on her 3, aka damage reduction. The phoenix idea could be used, though, after all Oberon has something similar as his augment. 

What if we keep Fire Blast, but make the ring always follow Ember (the ring is 5m and not affected by mods)? Therefore you would always get the bonus fire damage, which will synergize really well with accelerant. You could also make it so that if you hold down the ability Ember summons a 5m radius pillar of fire at her location for as long as you hold the button, draining energy per second. The sheer fire power would act as a barrier, making her invincible for the duration. The fire meter could also be used, if you are between 101-199% it adds a second pillar at another locating, prioritizing the tougher enemy, and at 200% you create a third pillar.

 

First of all, I apologize for having such a lengthy reply. I'm tired & sleepy, so I couldn't think of a more concise way to communicate my thoughts. 

>  The cast speed bonus only happens with the augment... not by itself. 

Her passive was already/also supposed to give her cast speed, power str, and energy regen.  So I put those things back into her passive (well not the energy regen, which is why I put efficiency instead) another important thing you should know, is that this build is meant to work most effectively with efficiency/duration. Not as much with a 300% str build. Negative efficiency would be seriously negatively detrimental to the way overheat works with her kit, so players will be relying on keeping it up, and managed effectively. This is to avoid a prolonged "nuke" abuse. Players COULD still build for 300% power str, but they would *very much* be a glass cannon, since the DR/evasion from the "cloak" wouldn't be very effective. 

 

>  Your ideas with "overheat hurting her" make sense, but then she would need a way to heal herself effectively. Instead of hurting her, what if it just starts consuming her energy/s (ideally her "cloak" and overheat, would cancel eachother out at ~150% overheat)? and once her energy is gone, then it starts consuming her shield and HP; I'd rather not make the player feel pressured/forced to constantly spam her 4th just to stay alive.  I don't make any use of nezha's fire trail though, so i don't see how  that would be good CC. I worry about what's in front of me, because anything behind me should already be dead (this is also the playstyle I'm imagining for this ember kit). But otherwise, it would be a cool visual effect. 

>  15,000 reduced by 75%, is 3,750 which wouldn't be enough to kill anything above lvl 60, which is the same problem her fireball currently has. (not to mention, i wasn't even including other possible "damage reduction" effects from other sources like eximus units). If it's going to be a single-target ability, it should deal 2k-3.5K damage base.

The damage needs to be absolutely, positively, ludicrous high. It needs to be higher than willie nelson, and snoop dogg, during a 420 festival. Whatever you attack with your 1st & 4th abilities, needs to DIE, not be tickled or lightly roasted.  Ember isn't a tanning salon. or a sauna.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, even though the "rush into enemies" was an ability i've been wanting her to have since literally more than a year ago (before gauss was a concept). I wouldn't mind it if Ember had either one of those abilities though (Or even if she kept the current fireball, and just super-buffed the damage) but the damage needs to be buch higher than 500, because it's heat and she has no way to strip armor and still has to deal with other forms of DR. It also needs to be much higher, because this build shouldn't be relying much on Str, as much as it should be relying on duration and efficiency to make the most of her heat counter (since efficiency and duration should help her with her buffs, and with maintaining it). Players shouldn't be able to maintain the overheat counter up for very long, if they have negative base efficiency. They'll also lose energy rapidly during "overheat" if they don't have duration.

>  I'm sure DE could afford to give her DR or Evasion. The reason overheat was overpowered, is because it ignored amor when it dealt damage. Not because of the DR alone.  She could literally walk through enemies and kill them, while being hard to kill herself. It passively gave ember DR, while dealing a lot of damage to enemies, all at the press of a single button.

The type of "cloak"  I'm suggesting wouldn't work like her previous overheat. It would only give her DR/Evasion, based on the player's management of her "heat/overheat" gauge. The DR granted wouldn't necessarily scale very much with strength; it would benefit more from overheat & duration. And the resurrection/explosion, would only happen if they die while they're still wearing the cloak (and they have the heat gauge built up). This kit benefits from a healthy balance of duration & efficiency, more than just going "full str" since her passive heat gauge would build the damage for her already. It mostly benefits from good heat management though. 

My opinion on fireblast is simple: It's a useless ability, that needs to be removed. Casting fireblast Undoes any "fire procs" or stuns from accelerant, unless you're also using its augment. So you literally need an augment to fix a broken ability, and give it any viability for CC (which doesn't even last long). Not to mention that the ring deals zero damage inside it. I completely dislike fireblast as a functional ability. (outside of it's cool animation, and SFX). I don't think Warframe has anymore need for "Mass AoE/Nuke" warframes, and I don't want to see ember take that "passive kills" direction again, without a significant cost & effort being involved (like working to keep her overheat built, and  using the majority of her overheat gauge to use a medium-range AoE "Eruption"). So that's another reason why I wouldn't want fireblast. The only reason I gave her an explosion effect (and it's medium range) is because it also works as a defensive strategy, when she's surrounded (or when she's reviving)

> Ideally, eruption would be replacing fireblast. So maybe give fireblast's visual effects & animation to eruption. Then give her "fire ring" floating around ember, to her "fire cloak" if you want, along with its heat damage to weapons.

Also, I don't like the idea of "fire pillars" since it would introduce a lot of visual clutter. I'm sure many players would be complaining about getting blinded constantly. I don't even like the fire-ring following ember, because of this same reason.  I DO like WoF's current visual effects around ember though, because it looks awesome while providing minimal visual clutter. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[HolySeraphin]

8 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

First of all, I apologize for having such a lengthy reply. I'm tired & sleepy, so I couldn't think of a more concise way to communicate my thoughts. 

>  The cast speed bonus only happens with the augment... not by itself. 

Her passive was already/also supposed to give her cast speed, power str, and energy regen.  So I put those things back into her passive (well not the energy regen, which is why I put efficiency instead) another important thing you should know, is that this build is meant to work most effectively with efficiency/duration. Not as much with a 300% str build. Negative efficiency would be seriously negatively detrimental to the way overheat works with her kit, so players will be relying on keeping it up, and managed effectively. This is to avoid a prolonged "nuke" abuse. Players COULD still build for 300% power str, but they would *very much* be a glass cannon, since the DR/evasion from the "cloak" wouldn't be very effective. 

 

>  Your ideas with "overheat hurting her" make sense, but then she would need a way to heal herself effectively. Instead of hurting her, what if it just starts consuming her energy/s (ideally her "cloak" and overheat, would cancel eachother out at ~150% overheat)? and once her energy is gone, then it starts consuming her shield and HP; I'd rather not make the player feel pressured/forced to constantly spam her 4th just to stay alive.  I don't make any use of nezha's fire trail though, so i don't see how  that would be good CC. I worry about what's in front of me, because anything behind me should already be dead (this is also the playstyle I'm imagining for this ember kit). But otherwise, it would be a cool visual effect. 

>  15,000 reduced by 75%, is 3,750 which wouldn't be enough to kill anything above lvl 60, which is the same problem her fireball currently has. (not to mention, i wasn't even including other possible "damage reduction" effects from other sources like eximus units). If it's going to be a single-target ability, it should deal 2k-3.5K damage base.

The damage needs to be absolutely, positively, ludicrous high. It needs to be higher than willie nelson, and snoop dogg, during a 420 festival. Whatever you attack with your 1st & 4th abilities, needs to DIE, not be tickled or lightly roasted.  Ember isn't a tanning salon. or a sauna.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, even though the "rush into enemies" was an ability i've been wanting her to have since literally more than a year ago (before gauss was a concept). I wouldn't mind it if Ember had either one of those abilities though (Or even if she kept the current fireball, and just super-buffed the damage) but the damage needs to be buch higher than 500, because it's heat and she has no way to strip armor and still has to deal with other forms of DR. It also needs to be much higher, because this build shouldn't be relying much on Str, as much as it should be relying on duration and efficiency to make the most of her heat counter (since efficiency and duration should help her with her buffs, and with maintaining it). Players shouldn't be able to maintain the overheat counter up for very long, if they have negative base efficiency. They'll also lose energy rapidly during "overheat" if they don't have duration.

>  I'm sure DE could afford to give her DR or Evasion. The reason overheat was overpowered, is because it ignored amor when it dealt damage. Not because of the DR alone.  She could literally walk through enemies and kill them, while being hard to kill herself. It passively gave ember DR, while dealing a lot of damage to enemies, all at the press of a single button.

The type of "cloak"  I'm suggesting wouldn't work like her previous overheat. It would only give her DR/Evasion, based on the player's management of her "heat/overheat" gauge. The DR granted wouldn't necessarily scale very much with strength; it would benefit more from overheat & duration. And the resurrection/explosion, would only happen if they die while they're still wearing the cloak (and they have the heat gauge built up). This kit benefits from a healthy balance of duration & efficiency, more than just going "full str" since her passive heat gauge would build the damage for her already. It mostly benefits from good heat management though. 

My opinion on fireblast is simple: It's a useless ability, that needs to be removed. Casting fireblast Undoes any "fire procs" or stuns from accelerant, unless you're also using its augment. So you literally need an augment to fix a broken ability, and give it any viability for CC (which doesn't even last long). Not to mention that the ring deals zero damage inside it. I completely dislike fireblast as a functional ability. (outside of it's cool animation, and SFX). I don't think Warframe has anymore need for "Mass AoE/Nuke" warframes, and I don't want to see ember take that "passive kills" direction again, without a significant cost & effort being involved (like working to keep her overheat built, and  using the majority of her overheat gauge to use a medium-range AoE "Eruption"). So that's another reason why I wouldn't want fireblast. The only reason I gave her an explosion effect (and it's medium range) is because it also works as a defensive strategy, when she's surrounded (or when she's reviving)

> Ideally, eruption would be replacing fireblast. So maybe give fireblast's visual effects & animation to eruption. Then give her "fire ring" floating around ember, to her "fire cloak" if you want, along with its heat damage to weapons.

Also, I don't like the idea of "fire pillars" since it would introduce a lot of visual clutter. I'm sure many players would be complaining about getting blinded constantly. I don't even like the fire-ring following ember, because of this same reason.  I DO like WoF's current visual effects around ember though, because it looks awesome while providing minimal visual clutter. 

Actually, the casting speed bonus of Accelerant is part of her base ability. Her augment, flash accelerant, just allows her to share the casting speed bonus with other players while also providing fire damage bonus, but her base Accelerant already gives her 50% casting speed. 

About her first ability. Most warframes' first ability deal 500 damage and have some sort of gimmick to compensate in high levels, or are affected by melee mods and such. Even Saryn's spores have to scale for some time before they start doing over 1000 damage. Hm...on the other hand, with 3000 base damage and 160% strenght, fireball would deal 19200 with accelerant. An elite lancer has 76% damage reduction and 20k health, so this fireball would take around 1/5 of his health. BUT  the fire proc would deal 2400 damage per tick after damage calculation, and the ability would deal a total of 21K damage, therefore killing the enemy (don't forget the fire proc). 15% initial armor strip and 7.5% armor strip per heat tick would be nice too (67,5% armor strip at the end, I want to make it different from corrosive). The armor strip would make it uself even if it doesn´t kill the enemies. And of course, make fire procs like toxin ones. Food for thought...

About the cloak, do you have any numbers in mind? 40% DR, 20% evasion? It can´t be 90%.

About visual clutter, fair enough, you have a point.

So, about the fire meter. Just clarifiy to me, you build it with her 1 and 2, but can realistically only spend it with her 4? What about make it go down after like 10 seconds at a 1 heat per second? After all, flames die out with time, and an overheat without energy would be really bad (not everyone use zenurik or energy pads). Using her 4 to cool down would be quite annoying if there are no enemies around. And wouldn´t a high efficiency/medium range make people spam her 4? We need more numbers on that.

 

[HolySeraphin]

Hm, what if you make her charged fireball like Zephyr's airburst? It would triple the damage, area covered, and it is a good enough reason to use it. It could use 15 fire meter, and the full charge would only take 1.5 seconds, instead of the current 2.5s.

In fact, you suggested making her 2 behave like Banshee's silence. What if you make her 2 have an universal stun, maybe WoF's knockdown, but charging it for 1.5 seconds make it like Banshee's sonar, at the cost of 30 heat points.

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, HolySeraphin said:

Actually, the casting speed bonus of Accelerant is part of her base ability. Her augment, flash accelerant, just allows her to share the casting speed bonus with other players while also providing fire damage bonus, but her base Accelerant already gives her 50% casting speed. 

About her first ability. Most warframes' first ability deal 500 damage and have some sort of gimmick to compensate in high levels, or are affected by melee mods and such. Even Saryn's spores have to scale for some time before they start doing over 1000 damage. Hm...on the other hand, with 3000 base damage and 160% strenght, fireball would deal 19200 with accelerant. An elite lancer has 76% damage reduction and 20k health, so this fireball would take around 1/5 of his health. BUT  the fire proc would deal 2400 damage per tick after damage calculation, and the ability would deal a total of 21K damage, therefore killing the enemy (don't forget the fire proc). 15% initial armor strip and 7.5% armor strip per heat tick would be nice too (67,5% armor strip at the end, I want to make it different from corrosive). The armor strip would make it uself even if it doesn´t kill the enemies. And of course, make fire procs like toxin ones. Food for thought...

About the cloak, do you have any numbers in mind? 40% DR, 20% evasion? It can´t be 90%.

About visual clutter, fair enough, you have a point.

So, about the fire meter. Just clarifiy to me, you build it with her 1 and 2, but can realistically only spend it with her 4? What about make it go down after like 10 seconds at a 1 heat per second? After all, flames die out with time, and an overheat without energy would be really bad (not everyone use zenurik or energy pads). Using her 4 to cool down would be quite annoying if there are no enemies around. And wouldn´t a high efficiency/medium range make people spam her 4? We need more numbers on that.

 

>Oh really? my bad for never noticing

>yeah the insane damage i'm suggesting to give her, is the main reason I went with giving her mainly medium-range abilities. Notice her "ult" doesn't cover that much area.

I like your ideas with the fireball calculations though. 

>The cloak? the evasion would probably max out around 25~45% so she's not competing with titania or with zephyr (too much evasion would also make adaptation a bad choice to use). I'd say the DR would depend on ember's base armor & hp (I don't mean it would scale with those stats). at 200% overheat i don't see why it couldn't have 75~90% DR. 

>That's a good flaw/blindspot you just found. Yeah making it decline overtime sounds like a good idea. I was also thinking of making it  decline if she takes damage while her "cloak" for DR/Eva is turned on,  similar to Unairu's Void Shield. 

Ok that's true about a range build....Originally I intended for it to be "spamable"  with a small AoE, along with her "movement" version of the 1st ability. 

What if her 4 consumed 20~30% of her total heat gauge--instead  of just a base  25 heat-- when the ability is held in "overheat? Also maybe the damage could decline past 10-12m, mainly causing a fireproc CoT on enemies beyond 15m... or maybe it would be fine if they're constantly spamming her 4, if the range only increased to 13.5m?  (9 * 1.5 = 13.5).... We could also give her other abilities some "overheat" mechanics that would consume the gauge That's a good point/observation tbh... what would you suggest?

Edited July 28, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[HolySeraphin]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

>Oh really? my bad for never noticing

>yeah the insane damage i'm suggesting to give her, is the main reason I went with giving her mainly medium-range abilities. Notice her "ult" doesn't cover that much area.

I like your ideas with the fireball calculations though. 

>The cloak? the evasion would probably max out around 25~45% so she's not competing with titania or with zephyr (too much evasion would also make adaptation a bad choice to use). I'd say the DR would depend on ember's base armor & hp (I don't mean it would scale with those stats). at 200% overheat i don't see why it couldn't have 75~90% DR. 

>That's a good flaw/blindspot you just found. Yeah making it decline overtime sounds like a good idea. I was also thinking of making it  decline if she takes damage while her "cloak" for DR/Eva is turned on,  similar to Unairu's Void Shield. 

Ok that's true about a range build.... What if her 4 consumed 20~30% of her total heat gauge--instead  of just a base  25 heat-- when the ability is held in "overheat? Also maybe the damage could decline past 10-12m, mainly causing a fireproc CoT on enemies beyond 15m... or maybe it would be fine if they're constantly spamming her 4, if the range only increased to 13.5m?  (9 * 1.5 = 13.5).... We could also give her other abilities some "overheat" mechanics that would consume the gauge That's a good point/observation tbh... what would you suggest?

I know Ember needs survivability but I don´t think she needs 90% by default on her 3 while on overheat. I mean, Gara has 70% on her 2 without any mods. I suggest 20% evasion and 45% DR at base, increasing after 100% until you reach 200% overheat, where you will have 35% evasion and 80% DR. The difference between Gara and Ember is that Ember can do more damage, and she will likely kill more enemies.

Make it that her 4 in overheat consumes 33.33% of her total heat meter per 0.3 seconds. 18m total range for overheat would be fine, but damage would need to decline up to 50% at the very tip. I'm thinking about a guy that decides to use a 250% range build with 40% strenght. I would make that it costs 100 energy, as usual for most fourth abilities, but this is reduces by half if used on overheat, because you are consuming your own fire to do it. There also needs to be a minimum to use the overheat mechanic, like it must be over 100%, or that it can be used if you have over 33% but it only gets additional damage. What are the damage numbers on this, by the way?  

 

About overheat mechanics to other skills, I said it above, but on a separate comment. On a side note, maybe the overheat cost for these two below should be bit higher, but I´,m not sure how efficiency would affect it. Maybe 20-40 would be more fitting.

2 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

Hm, what if you make her charged fireball like Zephyr's airburst? It would triple the damage, area covered, and it is a good enough reason to use it. It could use 15 fire meter, and the full charge would only take 1.5 seconds, instead of the current 2.5s.

In fact, you suggested making her 2 behave like Banshee's silence. What if you make her 2 have an universal stun, maybe WoF's knockdown, but charging it for 1.5 seconds make it like Banshee's sonar, at the cost of 30 heat points.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by HolySeraphin