Nyx Thoughts

[NuclearCoffeePot]

Nyx is amoung the warframes who at this moment i(and many others) feel deserve reworks, amoungst the likes of Titania and Vauban. As such I have written up some rough concepts for a nyx rework and will now share them to you champions of the feedback forums.

Passive-This passive is two parts- the first details some mind control the mechanics and the other is a survival ability that i feel is superior to her current.

1. Nyx's finishers and stealth attacks will instead mindcontrol her target- Mindcontrolled enemies work like this
   • Attacks enemies of Nyx and allies, takes fire from them and draws aggro
   • Any dmg its former allies would do to it will not be applied immediatly and will be stored in a reservoir
     • The dmg stored is converted into a dmg multiplier for the mind controlled enemies
     • At the end of their duration mind controlled enemies will recieve all stored dmg with a multiplier
   • Mind controlled enemies will priorotize attacking non mindcontrolled enemies but if their are none nearby they will attack eachother
2. There are 2 options for her part two
   1. Upon recieving dmg Nyx releases mental images of herself that draw all enemy aggro and ruin away from nyx's location
   2. A significant portion of dmg Nyx would take is instead sent out to her mindcontrolled slaves

Explanation-

• Giving nyx a unique way to apply her unique effect is an idea i like and as you will see the finishers will synergize with her first ability
• Having the dmg they would take stored away similar to how it is now gives them survival but converting it into bonus dmg will help them be of more use without needing Nyx or allies to fire on them
• Causing them to attack eachother when there are no non mind controlled enemies lets them perpetually ramp up their reservoirs so that there is a guaranteed chance they will die when mindcontrol ends
• For her 2 the 1st idea makes a little more thematic sense while the 2nd idea synergizes well with her mindcontrolled targets, letting her avoid dmg while ramping theirs up passively- 

 

1-1st ability time-Psionic blast- Nyx blasts a target and all nearby enemies within range of them with mental energy, opening them up to finishers for a duration- In addition any finisher done by nyx will cause all enemies affected to take the finisher as well(this could be an augment but it still makes sense to have it as part of the ability so she doesnt have to mindcontrol each one individually.

2-Psychic bolts- I honestly think its pretty okay as it is now- additionally if their are no non mindcontrolled targets within their range they could seek out allies or if none mind controlled enemies to buff

3-Chaos-Mindcontrols all targets in range for a duration- with the mindcontrol changes i think this will work quite nicely though the base duration will have to be lower then finisher created slaves so their is still insentive to using 1- 

4-Whoo boy- heres where i really took a bit of liberty-Mind Meld- Nyx rises into the air and begins releasing psychic energy- enemies non mindcontrolled will be forced to target her while she absorbs their dmg and distributes it to mindcontrolled targets-who will automatically focus on enemies closest to Nyx- Any mindcontrolled targets will not end at their prescribed duration timer but will instead stop and detonate only when Mind Meld ends.

 

[Vanilla_nuka]

Might as well make an entirely new frame at that point, your drastically changing pretty much every ability and that will never happen. I wouldnt say what your describing is a rework, you want basically a new frame, but with nyxs body

Edited July 31, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka

[NuclearCoffeePot]

2 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

Might as well make an entirely new frame at that point, your drastically changing pretty much every ability and that will never happen. I wouldnt say what your describing is a rework, you want basically a new frame, but with nyxs body

I guess so- Im no Nyx player myself but i thought i'd try my hand with some ideas, did you like any of it?

[Vanilla_nuka]

The psychic bolts idea is actually nice, it would give it a secondary effect that it desperately needs, it would just depend on what buffs it gives teammates, and the duration. it costs like 50 energy to cast, so unless the buffs were substantial it would really be a waste of energy.

Your new chaos sounds like revenant essentially, with the ability to mind control multiple enemies, which more slaves isnt necessarily bad, but chaos is fine as is, I dont see a reason to change it.

Your new 4 is pretty similar to what she has now, minus the damage distribution, she already pulls additional aggro, I just dont think it would work well in a team enviroment. It will probably have the same issues as defy, where as by the time you cast the ability, your teammates will have already killed all the enemies. I think its a neat idea in theory, but if your mind controlled targets, or teammates, kill the enemies shooting nyx before you can build up a decent amount of damage, what happens then? does the detonation of the mind controlled targets instantly kill them? and when the damage is distributed to mind controlled targets, what kind of damage will it do? will it match the element enemies are weak to? Does it scale with enemy level?   

and what about her survivability? it seems your moving towards a melee based theme, are your increasing her armor and health? Pretty much how she survives at levels 60 and 80 is through tanking with assimilate.

The 1 and 3 also seem counter productive, one mind controls all the enemies, the other opens them up to finishers, which turns them into mind controlled enemies, that seems redundant.

Will there be a cap on how many enemies can be mind controlled? Can you kill off individual enemies,  to have better minions like corpus techs, or will deactivating kill all of them?

Edited July 31, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

20 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

Might as well make an entirely new frame at that point, your drastically changing pretty much every ability and that will never happen. I wouldnt say what your describing is a rework, you want basically a new frame, but with nyxs body

I mean. That’s what DE plans to do with Vauban. Why can’t other frames get the same treatment? *glares at Revenant* 

[NuclearCoffeePot]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean. That’s what DE plans to do with Vauban. Why can’t other frames get the same treatment? *glares at Revenant* 

😂

[Vanilla_nuka]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean. That’s what DE plans to do with Vauban. Why can’t other frames get the same treatment? *glares at Revenant* 

Vauban has two abilities that are complete trash and not worth using, Nyx has 4 useable abilities. She needs more QoL, not becoming an entirely different frame

Edited July 31, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka

[NuclearCoffeePot]

5 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

does the detonation of the mind controlled targets instantly kill them

The resercoir dmg when detonated would recieve a multiplier to ensure enough dmg is dealt to kill mindcontrolled targets and if it doesnt resistances could be shred like with psychic bolts

6 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

and when the damage is distributed to mind controlled targets, what kind of damage will it do

The dmg is automatically put in their reservoir so its not dealt to their health but converted into a multiplier and when detonation happens the reservoir as stated will be multiplied before detonated.

 

7 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

will it match the element enemies are weak to

I hadn't thought of that before it brings up a good point, honestly i dont know- these concepts are just rough ideas and are not fleshed out fully

8 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

Does it scale with enemy level?  

This would be a good option so that she doesnt fall off at the higher levels

 

 

In response over all as i stated these are not fleshed out and merely rough concepts i thought up and jotted down in a text document this morning. Most of my concepts are rougher concepts and i use the feedback given to attempt to flesh them out in a way the community finds satisfying and fair. I dont have any real experience with nyx, not as much as i do with vauban and titania so please forgive my concepts if they feel to forward. Normally when i design reworks i dont focus on maintaining the same abilities so much as i do the same overarching theme.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

2 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

auban has two abilities that are complete trash and not worth using, Nyx has 4 useable abilities. She needs more QoL, not becoming an entirely different frame

This-True. I made these concepts cayuse ive heard lots of complaints about nyx's abilities, my lack of good concepts stems from my lack of nyx experience

[Vanilla_nuka]

3 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

The resercoir dmg when detonated would recieve a multiplier to ensure enough dmg is dealt to kill mindcontrolled targets and if it doesnt resistances could be shred like with psychic bolts

The dmg is automatically put in their reservoir so its not dealt to their health but converted into a multiplier and when detonation happens the reservoir as stated will be multiplied before detonated.

 

I hadn't thought of that before it brings up a good point, honestly i dont know- these concepts are just rough ideas and are not fleshed out fully

This would be a good option so that she doesnt fall off at the higher levels

 

 

In response over all as i stated these are not fleshed out and merely rough concepts i thought up and jotted down in a text document this morning. Most of my concepts are rougher concepts and i use the feedback given to attempt to flesh them out in a way the community finds satisfying and fair. I dont have any real experience with nyx, not as much as i do with vauban and titania so please forgive my concepts if they feel to forward. Normally when i design reworks i dont focus on maintaining the same abilities so much as i do the same overarching theme.

No i get it, and understand what your trying to do, you cant make good changes without feedback. Nyx is my most played frame, accounts for over 40% of my 1000 hours of playtime, so Im pretty familiar with her.

[Vanilla_nuka]

3 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

This-True. I made these concepts cayuse ive heard lots of complaints about nyx's abilities, my lack of good concepts stems from my lack of nyx experience

Yeah and most of those complaints are pretty fair, she hasnt aged all that well, and the introduction of frames that can do what she can do but a little better makes it even more noticeable

[NuclearCoffeePot]

16 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

and what about her survivability? it seems your moving towards a melee based theme, are your increasing her armor and health? Pretty much how she survives at levels 60 and 80 is through tanking with assimilate.

A stated in the passive ideas either damaging her would create psychic  projections that draw all nearby enemy aggro or a significant amount of damage she takes would be dealt instead to her slaves

 

18 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

The 1 and 3 also seem counter productive, one mind controls all the enemies, the other opens them up to finishers, which turns them into mind controlled enemies, that seems redundant.

I agree with that. My original thought for that is to have a mind control option even when you first start nyx rather then having to wait till you get chaos- an alternative would to have your one be your main mind control ability with a wide base range while 3 buffs active mindcontrolled targets and teleports them to your location while it confuses enemies

 

20 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

Will there be a cap on how many enemies can be mind controlled? Can you kill off individual enemies,  to have better minions like corpus techs, or will deactivating kill all of them?

Because these were spur of the moment concepts i didnt really have any thoughts for abilities like that- perhaps giving her wide scale mind control but giving her an ability that clears out lower tier enemies

[Vanilla_nuka]

6 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

The resercoir dmg when detonated would recieve a multiplier to ensure enough dmg is dealt to kill mindcontrolled targets and if it doesnt resistances could be shred like with psychic bolts

The dmg is automatically put in their reservoir so its not dealt to their health but converted into a multiplier and when detonation happens the reservoir as stated will be multiplied before detonated.

 

I hadn't thought of that before it brings up a good point, honestly i dont know- these concepts are just rough ideas and are not fleshed out fully

This would be a good option so that she doesnt fall off at the higher levels

 

 

In response over all as i stated these are not fleshed out and merely rough concepts i thought up and jotted down in a text document this morning. Most of my concepts are rougher concepts and i use the feedback given to attempt to flesh them out in a way the community finds satisfying and fair. I dont have any real experience with nyx, not as much as i do with vauban and titania so please forgive my concepts if they feel to forward. Normally when i design reworks i dont focus on maintaining the same abilities so much as i do the same overarching theme.

Yeah but even if its converted into a multiplier it doesnt mean it will necessarily kill. Grineer at level 80 plus can have upwards of 3mil ehp, if the damage doesnt ignore the armor I dont know how well it will actually work. Absorb currently has a multiplier based on how much damage she absorbs, but even when absorbing 50 to 100k in damage, the detonation damage is irrelevant. If it worked like Revs 4 where it adapts to the enemies weakness, it would hold value.

[Vanilla_nuka]

3 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

A stated in the passive ideas either damaging her would create psychic  projections that draw all nearby enemy aggro or a significant amount of damage she takes would be dealt instead to her slaves

 

I agree with that. My original thought for that is to have a mind control option even when you first start nyx rather then having to wait till you get chaos- an alternative would to have your one be your main mind control ability with a wide base range while 3 buffs active mindcontrolled targets and teleports them to your location while it confuses enemies

 

Because these were spur of the moment concepts i didnt really have any thoughts for abilities like that- perhaps giving her wide scale mind control but giving her an ability that clears out lower tier enemies

Ok she creates projections, I assume that would work like lokis decoy, I actually like the idea of damage being reflected from nyx to the slave, that actually seems like a decent passive.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka

[NuclearCoffeePot]

1 minute ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

Yeah but even if its converted into a multiplier it doesnt mean it will necessarily kill. Grineer at level 80 plus can have upwards of 3mil ehp, if the damage doesnt ignore the armor I dont know how well it will actually work. Absorb currently has a multiplier based on how much damage she absorbs, but even when absorbing 50 to 100k in damage, the detonation damage is irrelevant. If it worked like Revs 4 where it adapts to the enemies weakness, it would hold value.

There is great truth to your words. I will spend more time with your comments and observing other feedback to create a more fleshed out viable concept. When i do re upload with that concept please return and give me your feedback again. It would be nice to have a nyx expert giving me the know how to fix this 

[Vanilla_nuka]

Yeah no problem man, I comment on alot of the Nyx threads whenever Im on, I dont mind helping with concepts

[NuclearCoffeePot]

13 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

Yeah no problem man, I comment on alot of the Nyx threads whenever Im on, I dont mind helping with concepts

Thx- From your perspective as a nyx player what are the overarching problems she faces and needs to be fixed

Also im wondering what you thought of the part one passive idea- the finsiher mind control

Edited August 1, 2019 by NuclearCoffeePot

[Vanilla_nuka]

She lacks survivability, and she lacks synergy between her abilities.  her 4th ability absorb, is absolute garbage without the augment. The augment itself is really good, but slows her to a crawl, and at higher levels it can drain her energy extremely quickly. Her passive isnt all that great, her 1st ability mind control suffers from AI problems, and armor scaling, but generally is a decent ability, I made a long thread about mind control earlier. Her 2, Psychic bolts, are good, but lack useage in games with other frames who can strip armor/shields (notable mag, or groups using cp). It needs a secondary effect. Her 3 Chaos, is a really good CC ability, argueably one of the best CC abilities in the game, but the enemies who are effected by chaos can still attack Nyx, since they typically just attack whoever happens to be closest to them . 

TLDR on abilities: (1 is Mind Control, 2 is psychic bolts, etc)

1) Derpy Ai and enemy damage output hinder the ability

2)Lacks useage in games where armor/shield stripping can be done already with a different frame

3)Good CC but enemies can still attack you

4) Trash, needs to be replaced or have the augment by default

Edited August 1, 2019 by Vanilla_nuka

[NuclearCoffeePot]

2 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

She lacks survivability, and she lacks synergy between her abilities.  her 4th ability absorb, is absolute garbage without the augment. The augment itself is really good, but slows her to a crawl, and at higher levels it can drain her energy extremely quickly. Her passive isnt all that great, her 1st ability mind control suffers from AI problems, and armor scaling, but generally is a decent ability, I made a long thread about mind control earlier. Her 2, Psychic bolts, are good, but lack useage in games with other frames who can strip armor/shields (notable mag, or groups using cp). It needs a secondary effect. Her 3 Chaos, is a really good CC ability, argueably one of the best CC abilities in the game, but the enemies who are effected by chaos can still attack Nyx, since they typically just attack whoever happens to be closest to them . 

TLDR on abilities: (1 is Mind Control, 2 is psychic bolts, etc)

1) Derpy Ai and enemy damage output hinder the ability

2)Lacks useage in games where armor/shield stripping can be done already with a different frame

3)Good CC but enemies can still attack you

4) Trash, needs to be replaced or have the augment by default

Lets walk through some concepts 1 by 1 starting with 4. So basically increase mobility- increasing its speed or else having it be a toggle that doesnt interrupt mobility. Also having the damage dealt be the type the enemy is weak two- anything else to add onto it?

[Infirito]

Nyx needs QoL rework, not the core abilities change (Titania is fine as she is, except the lantern nerf from previous "rework").

* Her 1st needs the most work, I'd say. The idea is fine, but the AI and mechanics needs to be reworked completely. I would suggest turning the target into a specter-like. Same AI as specters or syndicate operatives, ability would be single cast, turning the target into an ally permanently untill it's death or a recast of the ability (that would also kill the target). 

Currently the only use of this ability is creating another target for an enemy team / eliminating a single dangerous target, not very useful in a hoard-like game setting.

* Bolts just need to be at least semi-aimable, i.e. affect enemies near your crosshair, not just randomly around you, otherwise they're fine. Augment is completely useless imo, would be nice for it to return the rad proc / increas the agro from other enemies.

Alternatively, ditch the bolts and replace them with duration based stealth. Nyx already makes enemies see each other as herself with Chaos, why not have the ability to make enemies see herself as one of them? That would negate her non-existent armour.

* Chaos works fine for the most part. Keeps you and your team mates safe, stops most of the enemy movement. The only problem I see is that some affected by it still b-line for the interception terminals, ignoring everything. This, however, they do if a player is standing near those terminals as well, so it seems fair enough. Increased agro between affected enemies would be nice too, Nyx has no armour, so this should help with survivability.

The change I would suggest to the augment: instead of another bubble with obscure mechanics (wording on it confused me a lot), make it infectious like thralls of Ravenut, i.e. enemies affected by Chaos would inflict the Chaos effect on those they attack. Imo that would make an augment a lot more useful. I've tried to make bubble work, but recasting regular Chaos got me much better results, so istead of changing the base mechanics I'd like to see them expanded.

* Treating the 4th as a source of damage never seemed right to me, especially since all your other abilities work agains it. 1-3 draw fire away from Nyx, while 4th needs to take in the damage to return it after, so instead of this ability being damage based, I'd much rather switch it to another CC thing with confusing / disarming / blinding etc. explosions. The blast radius needs to be bigger, a lot bigger for it to be viable at all without an augment, maybe use the intake damage to boost it even more. Also, huge energy drain needs to go, there's more that enough energy leeches at higher levels to have this as well.

 

Nyx is my #1 girl, a favourite frame since cbt and I'd really hate for a rework to mess up her base principles.

[Vanilla_nuka]

Honestly with her 4, you can go for anything that has to do with her psychic theme, she needs a new 4 completely. What makes it useable now is that it has an augment that allows her to tank indefinitely, as long as she has energy. In previous posts, Ive mentioned giving her the augment by default, and giving her a new augment that gives her greater mobility, allowing her to roll and such. If it did the element that the enemy was weak to, it would definitely be more useable, but I still dont think it would make it better, It has a feature now that the damage type it does is based on the damage it absorbs. Since enemies do mostly physical damage its damage is irrelevant.

Thematically, absorb really doesnt go with the rest of her kit, I find her akin to professor X from marvel, the ability is kinda just there as a means of tanking

[Vanilla_nuka]

Just now, Infirito said:

Nyx needs QoL rework, not the core abilities change (Titania is fine as she is, except the lantern nerf from previous "rework").

* Her 1st needs the most work, I'd say. The idea is fine, but the AI and mechanics needs to be reworked completely. I would suggest turning the target into a specter-like. Same AI as specters or syndicate operatives, ability would be single cast, turning the target into an ally permanently untill it's death or a recast of the ability (that would also kill the target). 

Currently the only use of this ability is creating another target for an enemy team / eliminating a single dangerous target, not very useful in a hoard-like game setting.

* Bolts just need to be at least semi-aimable, i.e. affect enemies near your crosshair, not just randomly around you, otherwise they're fine. Augment is completely useless imo, would be nice for it to return the rad proc / increas the agro from other enemies.

Alternatively, ditch the bolts and replace them with duration based stealth. Nyx already makes enemies see each other as herself with Chaos, why not have the ability to make enemies see herself as one of them? That would negate her non-existent armour.

* Chaos works fine for the most part. Keeps you and your team mates safe, stops most of the enemy movement. The only problem I see is that some affected by it still b-line for the interception terminals, ignoring everything. This, however, they do if a player is standing near those terminals as well, so it seems fair enough. Increased agro between affected enemies would be nice too, Nyx has no armour, so this should help with survivability.

The change I would suggest to the augment: instead of another bubble with obscure mechanics (wording on it confused me a lot), make it infectious like thralls of Ravenut, i.e. enemies affected by Chaos would inflict the Chaos effect on those they attack. Imo that would make an augment a lot more useful. I've tried to make bubble work, but recasting regular Chaos got me much better results, so istead of changing the base mechanics I'd like to see them expanded.

* Treating the 4th as a source of damage never seemed right to me, especially since all your other abilities work agains it. 1-3 draw fire away from Nyx, while 4th needs to take in the damage to return it after, so instead of this ability being damage based, I'd much rather switch it to another CC thing with confusing / disarming / blinding etc. explosions. The blast radius needs to be bigger, a lot bigger for it to be viable at all without an augment, maybe use the intake damage to boost it even more. Also, huge energy drain needs to go, there's more that enough energy leeches at higher levels to have this as well.

 

Nyx is my #1 girl, a favourite frame since cbt and I'd really hate for a rework to mess up her base principles.

Her bolts are semi aimable, if you have your crosshair on an enemy, one of the bolts will hit them. I agree the augment for it is useless though, a better augment would be, if an enemy effected by psychic bolts is killed, the ability is recasted from the spot from the enemy dies, similar to the augment for banshees sonar. I dont like the augment for Chaos either, I like the idea of chaos spreading, from enemies who kill each other.

I agree on her 4, its kinda just there and is counter productive to the rest of her kit, I want to see it replaced completely with a different ability

[Infirito]

Just now, Vanilla_nuka said:

I agree on her 4, its kinda just there and is counter productive to the rest of her kit, I want to see it replaced completely with a different ability

I love my Assimilate though, blasting fools with explosives point blank is very fun. ^_^

If it becomes the default, I'm all for it though.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

14 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

I dont like the augment for Chaos either, I like the idea of chaos spreading, from enemies who kill each other.

So for chaos having it effect a few limited enemies who then spread the effect when they die or kill an opponent. Im a little confused by the when enemies kill eachother, does that mean it spreads when a chaos target kills an enemy or vice versa or both

 

14 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

I agree the augment for it is useless though, a better augment would be, if an enemy effected by psychic bolts is killed, the ability is recasted from the spot from the enemy dies

I think you can give psychic bolts a unique synergy with this thought in mind. Psychic bolts will run out and focus targets not affected by chaos or mind control- stripping their defenses and marking them- enemies effected by chaos or mind control will focus on that target and gain more damage towards it unless they will already have significant damage. If the targets die the psychic bolts will be cast from their location and continue the process

 

14 minutes ago, Vanilla_nuka said:

I agree on her 4, its kinda just there and is counter productive to the rest of her kit, I want to see it replaced completely with a different ability

Roger that ill think of something and see if you like it

edit- the second i posted and switched to nyx wiki idea i had a thought that you may or may not like idk- it fits thematically but idk if youll find it appealing- nyx surounds herself in a telekenetic shield while dealing damage directly to nearby enemies minds, ignoring shields and armor, when enemies die while affected by this the range and damage increase-mobility is not affected

Edited August 1, 2019 by NuclearCoffeePot

[Infirito]

Just now, NuclearCoffeePot said:

So for chaos having it effect a few limited enemies who then spread the effect when they die or kill an opponent. Im a little confused by the when enemies kill eachother, does that mean it spreads when a chaos target kills an enemy or vice versa or both

Nah, you cast regular Chaos > enemies, affected by it, attack new arrivals > each hit from affected enemies has 50-100% chance to inflict Chaos for the remaining duration.

 

Just now, NuclearCoffeePot said:

edit- the second i posted and switched to nyx wiki idea i had a thought that you may or may not like idk- it fits thematically but idk if youll find it appealing- nyx surounds herself in a telekenetic shield while dealing damage directly to nearby enemies minds, ignoring shields, when enemies die while affected by this the range and damage increase

So, something like Trinity's link or whatever the Hildryn's 3 is? Sounds interesting, but her 4th needs to generate enough agro to draw enemies in, otherwise it'll have the same problem it has now. It would be nice if her 4 had ability to argo every enemy affected by her other skills though, that is if we do away with huge energy drain.

Also, it might just be me, but I really don't think Nyx'es abilities should be damage based. In my eyes she's always been the "You do that for me while I watch" kind of girl. ^_^