[DEV Proposal] Nova Null Star re cast

[str4dlin]

Now that the main purpose of the skill Null Star of Nova is to stack damage reduction I dont find sense you can't re cast to update particle number until all particles are exploded. 

Please implement Nova Null Star can be re casted to update particle numbers. With initial cost or relative to the number of particles updates. Nvm. But it is needed.

Edit:
As @Skullcrusher211 Mention there is an Augment doing particles to explode and we can use for "do the trick" and re cast the skill. Same we can do if we go to the water, weird trick. But the proposal is being able to do it originally. Not exploding but updating particles number

Thanks.
 

Edited August 18, 2019 by str4dlin

[Skullcrusher211]

There's an Augment, Neutron Star, which makes the remaining stars explode, this allowing recast. Rhino's second skill, Iron Skin, also has a similar augment, Iron Shrapnel.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Skullcrusher211

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

You can do it with an augment, same as Rhino. Unless a change happened and I didn't know.

Nova even has 2 augments meant to replenish particles.

Edited August 18, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[str4dlin]

hace 8 minutos, Skullcrusher211 dijo:

There's an Augment, Neutron Star, which makes the remaining stars explode, this allowing recast. Rhino's second skill, Iron Skin, also has a similar augment, Iron Shrapnel.

She needs 4 slot of mods for duration. My suggestion is to have it original in the skill. Not exploding but updating particles.. Original design had not in mind meta is going to stack damage reduction nor Augur mods nor Constitution. I guess it is a skill that needs the change because the meta changed and the mods she is using for that.

Also Augment is not "You can recast". You explode particles then u can recast. I  can do the same going to the water you know.

Edited August 18, 2019 by str4dlin

[str4dlin]

hace 4 minutos, (PS4)Hikuro-93 dijo:

You can do it with an augment, same as Rhino. Unless a change happened and I didn't know.

Nova even has 2 augments meant to replenish particles.

You can do it also going to the water. Augment is not related with recast to update particles. Is the "trick" but Im talking about the skill design not updated for the actual meta.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

5 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

Also Augment is not "You can recast" you explode particles then u can recast. I  can do the same going to the water you know.

So the very same as rhino. 

 

5 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

She needs 4 slot of mods for duration

No, you need. It's a choice, not an obligation.

And she's already a great tank as is. She's a meta frame as is. This could be done, sure, but I find it unnecessary.

Edited August 18, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

She needs 4 slot of mods for duration.

There are many builds that do not use that for Nova. Specifically there are builds that only have about 115% Duration for modes like Survival, because longer Duration means that enemies that spawn outside of where you want them (as in, not in the same room as you) then can't reach you and you have to go hunt them down, resetting Spawn locations and slowing down Life Support gain from their drops. There are even other builds that use massively high Efficiency, and substitute damage output on her 2 spammed over and over again with the augment Anti-Matter Absorb completely sucking in enemy shots and preventing you from getting hit entirely, to basically just kill enemies before they can kill you and stay immortal with a gigantic ball of Absorbing force with you at all times. 

If you're running her for a maximum-stack Null Star, then more fool you, because you're neglecting her other abilities that make her more powerful overall, like a slow that can prevent you taking damage in the first place and a massive damage 2 that can wipe mobs around corners so your placement means you never need to take a hit even without the slow. At the very least you can ditch Constitution and either use an Augment like Molecular Fission (for your 4) that tops you back up by 2 stars of Null Star for every kill on an enemy that's been M-Primed.

So you lose 10% damage reduction for the ability to be infinitely topped-up to 80% instead of trying to run 90% that you need to re-cast every time it drops a single star, then you use all the other damage mitigation functions at your disposal to compensate for that drop of 10% anyway.

As a point, the damage reduction function of Null Star was just an unlisted effect, it always existed, it just wasn't noticed by a lot of people.

[str4dlin]

hace 2 minutos, (PS4)Hikuro-93 dijo:

So the very same as rhino. 

Now that you mention, yes Rhino should need the same but this post is about Nova.I maybe open another for Rhino in the future.

hace 2 minutos, (PS4)Hikuro-93 dijo:

No, you need.

Best mod in slot need it.

hace 3 minutos, (PS4)Hikuro-93 dijo:

And she's already a great tank as is

She is not a tank when you are in Arbitration minute 60 for example with x1 particle and being unable to re cast skill to update particles. When you have a nekros that can perma stack DR or Nidus. It places she in a bad place when she could be "perfect" You are oneshooted in that point. And here is when it becomes necessary. I don't really know the game content you are playing but I valorate your opion. And I am just trying to bring you to the point where it becomes annoying and necessary.

Original design of null star was thought about the particles going to nearest enemies to explode and nova was more focused in range. For that you don't need to have many particles because you can just update when skill ends. Arbitration not existing, duration mods that we have now not existing, etc. Actual hig-end meta brings the main purpose to the damage reduction stack. There is the main thread. You can be against the change but I am not sure if you are talking from the experience of high-end gameplay.

Bytheway I find this forum always opposed to proposals about helping players or helping warframes being more adapted to content. Idk how many people here is talking from the experience. And trust me I valorate your opinion. Thanks.

[str4dlin]

hace 3 minutos, Birdframe_Prime dijo:

There are many builds that do not use that for Nova. Specifically there are builds that only have about 115% Duration for modes like Survival, because longer Duration means that enemies that spawn outside of where you want them (as in, not in the same room as you) then can't reach you and you have to go hunt them down, resetting Spawn locations and slowing down Life Support gain from their drops. There are even other builds that use massively high Efficiency, and substitute damage output on her 2 spammed over and over again with the augment Anti-Matter Absorb completely sucking in enemy shots and preventing you from getting hit entirely, to basically just kill enemies before they can kill you and stay immortal with a gigantic ball of Absorbing force with you at all times. 

If you're running her for a maximum-stack Null Star, then more fool you, because you're neglecting her other abilities that make her more powerful overall, like a slow that can prevent you taking damage in the first place and a massive damage 2 that can wipe mobs around corners so your placement means you never need to take a hit even without the slow. At the very least you can ditch Constitution and either use an Augment like Molecular Fission (for your 4) that tops you back up by 2 stars of Null Star for every kill on an enemy that's been M-Primed.

So you lose 10% damage reduction for the ability to be infinitely topped-up to 80% instead of trying to run 90% that you need to re-cast every time it drops a single star, then you use all the other damage mitigation functions at your disposal to compensate for that drop of 10% anyway.

As a point, the damage reduction function of Null Star was just an unlisted effect, it always existed, it just wasn't noticed by a lot of people.

Builds that doesn't focus in null star DR are not affected about this. 

Maybe Im fool having 2 novas with different builds and playing she since 2014. Probably the thing is you don't understand when the focus on DR becomes necessary. 

Bytheway, If you could fit to the puposal of the thread because I am not here to discuss about builds 🙂

Cheers.

Edited August 18, 2019 by str4dlin

[Birdframe_Prime]

20 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

Probably the thing is you don't understand when the focus on DR becomes necessary. 

Focus on DR becomes less and less necessary than focus on complete damage Avoidance as the game advances. DR is only a viable tactic for a single frame up until around the basic Sortie level.

21 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

I am not here to discuss about builds

Makes a thread about recasting Null Star because his build focuses on Null Star without making any allowance for existing tools that are specifically put in for recasting/sustaining Null Star and can be used if build is adjusted.

Doesn't want to discuss builds that utilise those tools.

Seems very, very rational there, my friend.

[TheInternetGuy]

1 hour ago, str4dlin said:

Now that the main purpose of the skill Null Star of Nova is to stack damage reduction I dont find sense you can't re cast to update particle number until all particles are exploded. 

Please implement Nova Null Star can be re casted to update particle numbers. With initial cost or relative to the number of particles updates. Nvm. But it is needed.

Edit:
As @Skullcrusher211 Mention there is an Augment doing particles to explode and we can use for "do the trick" and re cast the skill. Same we can do if we go to the water, weird trick. But the proposal is being able to do it originally. Not exploding but updating particles number

Thanks.
 

I never used null star because of this. I understand losing null star overtime when enemies are nearby but its damage is close to nothing on medium to high level enemies, the least it could do is provide consistent protection. I really don't care recasts don't have an energy discount. Nova is a very squishy frame. She kind of needs this.

Augments are pretty good and all but not worth the mod slot tbh 😕

[(PSN)SnakeLogic]

Nova is a god tank with 2x damage reduction with her 1 and Adaptation. 

I wouldnt even bother with her old Augment for her 1, the one that lets you recast. 

In my opinion, its borderline useless in comparison to her new Augment that makes it so you never have to recast anyway. The stacks stay pretty much maxed the entire mission now.

When you combine her tankiness with her amazing CC, I find she can comfortably stay multiple hours in endurance type missions.

Seriously, i dont think she needs to be any better lol.

[str4dlin]

hace 24 minutos, (PS4)SpIitSnake dijo:

Nova is a god tank with 2x damage reduction with her 1 and Adaptation. 

I wouldnt even bother with her old Augment for her 1, the one that lets you recast. 

In my opinion, its borderline useless in comparison to her new Augment that makes it so you never have to recast anyway. The stacks stay pretty much maxed the entire mission now.

When you combine her tankiness with her amazing CC, I find she can comfortably stay multiple hours in endurance type missions.

Seriously, i dont think she needs to be any better lol.

You seems to talk about the experience. Thank you very much for the opinion. I agree with you in many things and you got the point I want to go in. 

See, If you try to build umbra mods (what is also actual meta) you will notice the point where I find nova design require something that naturally let her update particles. Umbra vit and Umbra int then stack duration and adaptation. You find the slot we using for the mod you mention (that is awesome) is required and there is where I decide to come here because having other warframes with much less requirements stacking until 99% dr,  Nova is having a bad place when she could be perfectly adapted to new mods just "changing a flag in the code" and not forced to use augments when we focus on DR. Ofc is not bad, it is very very good as it is, but a little change could make the difference.

Also a lot of opinions say to split augment mods from build mods, but I don't think it is comming soon. A duration Exilus mod in this case also could solve it. 

Im doing builds since 2013 and I bring opinion when I find something does't fits very well or I think it could be improved for some reason.

Cheers.

Edited August 18, 2019 by str4dlin

[str4dlin]

hace 30 minutos, Birdframe_Prime dijo:

Focus on DR becomes less and less necessary than focus on complete damage Avoidance as the game advances. DR is only a viable tactic for a single frame up until around the basic Sortie level.

I dont know what you mean "damage Avoidance" but with that phrase you seems to be playing a different game. I won't discuss because always I begin a discussion with a non-argued commentor it just bring me headache. Your phrase is wrong from the F to de L. But mate, I won't bring you clues about how to play, enjoy your games and thank you for the opinion.

[(PSN)SnakeLogic]

3 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

I dont know what you mean "damage Avoidance" but with that phrase you seems to be playing a different game. I won't discuss because always I begin a discussion with a non-argued commentor it just bring me headache. Your phrase is wrong from the F to de L. But mate, I won't bring you clues about how to play, enjoy your games and thank you for the opinion.

Hes talking about the level of enemies that are so high, that they will one shot you through 2x 90% Damage Reduction and 600+.armor.

Basically, hes saying theres a level where all the DR in the world will not save you, and at that point its about using movement and positioning to avoid damage.

I understand the point, but we are talking about enemies way WAY past 3rd Sortie. Like level 500 enemies, but how many people are really going up against that regularly?

Id guess not too many lol.

[str4dlin]

hace 27 minutos, (PS4)SpIitSnake dijo:

Hes talking about the level of enemies that are so high, that they will one shot you through 2x 90% Damage Reduction and 600+.armor.

Basically, hes saying theres a level where all the DR in the world will not save you, and at that point its about using movement and positioning to avoid damage.

I understand the point, but we are talking about enemies way WAY past 3rd Sortie. Like level 500 enemies, but how many people are really going up against that regularly?

Id guess not too many lol.

DR is the best to confront those enemies. I am playing that content and I do DR based builds because that. DR is not a flat value so in term of numbers are much better than stack Armor. So the phrase is wrong from the begining to the end being that actually the best way to confront high level is DR. Sortie mobs are not higher than 100, DR is not needed. So he is again wrong. My post is related to this same because I find the problem when I try to do a Nova DR based build and I find she can't compete with others like Nekros or Nidus and a little change could be the difference. Positioning and warframe skills that avoid damage like frost or limbo are usefull of course but also being Loki and going invisible the whole game what is weird. Warframe team configurations are made after or related to a mission type and is one of the clues, the other are DR based builds.

I know what high level mobs are,
http://prntscr.com/ou6u1w
I am here exactly because that.